Rickie Fowler is a cautionary tale in overexposing a superstar

[cleverprimate24]

57 minutes ago, Draw Driver said:

I’m on the fence here. Mickelson was 33 and Scott 32 so there’s technically time, putting aside differences in the talent and game.

Not saying he can't win one, but I'd think the odds are against him. Time is ticking and there's only four shots a year, that paired with the fact, that at his best he's probably a Top 20 or 30 player with current talent on tour.

 

Like you alluded, I think Mickelson and Scott are a different level of player. He certainly has a chance, all it takes is four great rounds, but the competition is fierce. 

Edited February 18, 2021 by cleverprimate24

[Draw Driver]

14 minutes ago, cleverprimate24 said:

Not saying he can't win one, but I'd think the odds are against him. Time is ticking and there's only four shots a year, that paired with the fact, that at his best he's probably a Top 20 or 30 player with current talent on tour.

 

Like you alluded, I think Mickelson and Scott are a different level of player. He certainly has a chance, all it takes is four great rounds, but the competition is fierce. 

Yes, good points. I’m inclined to agree. The results this year will be quite telling. 

[TiScape]

4 hours ago, JungleJimbo said:

@TIScape Off-topic... but that Pole she's holding = Looks like a Graphite Design TourAD "BB"!
🥇🧗‍♀️🤸🏻‍♂️🦯🏃‍♀️💨 🙂 

She’s holding a pole??? Lol

[nsxguy]

On 1/31/2021 at 6:09 PM, Ironman_32 said:

I think we have to remember how difficult it is to stay on tour and be successful. Guys like Charles Howell or Pat Perez, just because they don't have 20 wins each and a major or multiple majors doesn't mean that didn't have fantastic careers. Rickie did win the Players, so thats at least something.

 

Actually it DOES mean they haven't had fantastic careers. Howell and Perez are (maybe) slightly more than "journeymen".

 

Fantastic is a relative term. It's relative to their peers.

 

Compared to non-winners on Tour they had fantastic careers.

 

Compared to the All-timers and a good many of their peers ? Not quite fantastic. "Decent" maybe ? Sure, I could go for that. 

Edited February 21, 2021 by nsxguy

[toddnt]

On 12/7/2020 at 7:47 AM, manku said:

My earliest memory, and most lasting, is Rickie laying up on 15 at the Phoenix Open when he had a chance to win.  
 

I think that speaks volumes about his character, and as many of us older folks have come to realize, people don’t change.

 

He seems like a terrific guy, though.

 

I remember Arnie asking if he'd lay up again and when he said yes.. The King looked at him like he had a horn emerging from his forehead!

[Shilgy]

29 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

Actually it DOES mean they haven't had fantastic careers. Howell and Perez are (maybe) slightly more than "journeymen".

 

Fantastic is a relative term. It's relative to their peers.

 

Compared to non-winners on Tour they had fantastic careers.

 

Compared to the All-timers and a good many of their peers ? Not quite fantastic. "Decent" maybe ? Sure, I could go for that. 

In the NFL they would be among the top 100 or so. All in the Pro Bowl. In MLB they would be fringe all stars.

That is a different perspective that makes them much more than decent or journeymen.  In golf only the all star team keeps their card.

[freeze16172002]

Ricki might have the best personal marketing in the history of all sports. Can you name another athlete without a major, super bowl, world series etc that has a bigger marketing presence then him. He made alot of good moves going with puma/cobra was smart being the #1 guy instead of one of many at nike, tm, callaway that gave him the exposure to get other endorsement deals

Edited February 21, 2021 by freeze16172002

[nsxguy]

19 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

In the NFL they would be among the top 100 or so. All in the Pro Bowl. In MLB they would be fringe all stars.

That is a different perspective that makes them much more than decent or journeymen.  In golf only the all star team keeps their card.

 

So everybody on the major tours are "All Stars" ?

 

Nah !!! Disagree. All Stars are relative to the league/fields they're playing in. There's 1600+ players in the NFL. Not nearly so many on the major tours.

 

They're not even in the Top 100 in the OWGR right now.

 

And 3 wins each in their careers ? Sooty but I'll stick with "decent", maybe even upgrade 'em to "good".

 

Fantastic ? No chance. 

[Shilgy]

5 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

So everybody on the major tours are "All Stars" ?

 

Nah !!! Disagree. All Stars are relative to the league/fields they're playing in. There's 1600+ players in the NFL. Not nearly so many on the major tours.

 

They're not even in the Top 100 in the OWGR right now.

 

And 3 wins each in their careers ? Sooty but I'll stick with "decent", maybe even upgrade 'em to "good".

 

Fantastic ? No chance. 

So our opinions differ, no biggie. Take the top 4 players from each MLB team. They keep their card in golf. The other starters and bench players are on the Korn Ferry, Euro, Latin America, Asian  tours etc.

Look at it this way. In baseball Mike Trout is an all star but most all stars are not nearly as good. It’s damn difficult to just keep a card on tour.   So perhaps a Fowler or Howell are not all star starters but they certainly make the team.

Tony Finau is 15th in the owgr. He has one stinking win in his career and it was an opposite field event. 
Winning on tour is hard. So is just keeping your card.

[straightshot7]

A “fantastic career” on the PGA Tour has to be at least 10+ wins. Maybe even 20+...

 

if 3 wins is a “fantastic” career, what is 20 wins? Unfathomable? 
 

Come on lol. 3 wins is good, not great. 
 

if you ask all of the Tour players to name guys that have had fantastic careers, no one is naming Perez or Howell III. 
 

they might actually name Howell III as an underachiever relative to his talent. 

[Shilgy]

1 hour ago, straightshot7 said:

A “fantastic career” on the PGA Tour has to be at least 10+ wins. Maybe even 20+...

 

if 3 wins is a “fantastic” career, what is 20 wins? Unfathomable? 
 

Come on lol. 3 wins is good, not great. 
 

if you ask all of the Tour players to name guys that have had fantastic careers, no one is naming Perez or Howell III. 
 

they might actually name Howell III as an underachiever relative to his talent. 

Hmm, what would you call a guy that has been in the top 158 in the freakin’ world at what he does for 20 years? Most of that time in the top 100 and about half in the top 65 or so. 
Any occupation being the among the best in the world is pretty fantastic. 

Among the very best of his era? NO
Hall of Fame worthy? NO.

Pretty fantastic? YEP

 

Everyone in other threads notes the huge influx in young talent year after year. And yet here we have a guy that thrives in the midst of this onslaught and he’s scoffed at as a journeyman.

[Draw Driver]

Ties for 20th. 67 with the pressure off on Sunday. Had a good round going before the bogey and double. Pretty decent scores given how hard the course was playing. Crunch time coming if he’s going to make The Masters. 

Edited February 22, 2021 by Draw Driver

[KRAMER1997]

On 2/17/2021 at 9:10 PM, Draw Driver said:

I’m on the fence here. Mickelson was 33 and Scott 32 so there’s technically time, putting aside differences in the talent and game.

I'm sorry but you can't compare Rickie with Mickelson when he was 33. Before the 2004 Masters, Phil already had 20+ wins on tour and was probably one of the most consistent golfers on tour.  I love Rickie, but he's a mediocre golfer who markets himself well.  

[straightshot7]

4 hours ago, Shilgy said:

Hmm, what would you call a guy that has been in the top 158 in the freakin’ world at what he does for 20 years? Most of that time in the top 100 and about half in the top 65 or so. 
Any occupation being the among the best in the world is pretty fantastic. 

Among the very best of his era? NO
Hall of Fame worthy? NO.

Pretty fantastic? YEP

 

Everyone in other threads notes the huge influx in young talent year after year. And yet here we have a guy that thrives in the midst of this onslaught and he’s scoffed at as a journeyman.

We're just disagreeing based on semantics/perspective.

 

Yes, "fantastic career", if you're comparing him to every single person who has ever attempted to play golf for a living.

 

Would "fantastic career" be what every knowledgeable golf fan/player/announcer would think to call it if you asked them? No, of course not. Because they'd be thinking in comparison to other PGA Tour players.

 

There are 37 players who have 20+ Tour WINS in their career. 

 

If I describe a 3 win career as a "fantastic career", what do I call those 20+ win careers? Do you see why I'm trying to reserve words like fantastic for those that actually had fantastic PGA Tour records?

 

Of course it's all relative. I'm sorry we even went down this path 😄

Edited February 22, 2021 by straightshot7

[Draw Driver]

6 minutes ago, KRAMER1997 said:

I'm sorry but you can't compare Rickie with Mickelson when he was 33. Before the 2004 Masters, Phil already had 20+ wins on tour and was probably one of the most consistent golfers on tour.  I love Rickie, but he's a mediocre golfer who markets himself well.  

I agree. Not wins, just age wise. There’s time to get the first major based on those historical precedents. 

[rkelso184]

250k won this season 

5 PGA victories

3 international victories

1 other win 

14 2nd places

7 3rd places

72 top 10s

203 cuts mafe of 260 starts

Number 1 ameture for 36 weeks 

total winnings of 39Mil 

who knows how much he has made off endorsement deals

 

oh and his still only 32!

 

I think his doing quiet well

[Shilgy]

9 hours ago, straightshot7 said:

We're just disagreeing based on semantics/perspective.

 

Yes, "fantastic career", if you're comparing him to every single person who has ever attempted to play golf for a living.

 

Would "fantastic career" be what every knowledgeable golf fan/player/announcer would think to call it if you asked them? No, of course not. Because they'd be thinking in comparison to other PGA Tour players.

 

There are 37 players who have 20+ Tour WINS in their career. 

 

If I describe a 3 win career as a "fantastic career", what do I call those 20+ win careers? Do you see why I'm trying to reserve words like fantastic for those that actually had fantastic PGA Tour records?

 

Of course it's all relative. I'm sorry we even went down this path 😄

I would agree it could be semantics. I just hate the guys on keyboards saying “so and so” sucks when he’s been top 60 or 100 for year after year. He is a great golfer. Not elite...but when you are continuously in the top 60 in the world of the thousands of guys attempting your profession you are pretty da#n good.

 

And I especially liked your reference to 20 win guys all time on tour. We may need a new benchmark though rather than 20 career wins. 20 of the top 38 ( 20 or more wins guys) were born over a century ago. Just 9 were born in the last 75 years.

[freeze16172002]

I think Ricki is fine with top 5-10 finishes. He never really had to win to be considered a top player and get endorsement deals. In 2014 he was happy with top 5 in all majors instead of being frustrated that he didn't win one 

[MattyO1984]

T20 last week meant that he did have his first OWGR rise since the 2020 Tournament of Champions. Beside last week, it had really been a slow and steady decline over the last two years.

[Ironman_32]

1 hour ago, Shilgy said:

I would agree it could be semantics. I just hate the guys on keyboards saying “so and so” sucks when he’s been top 60 or 100 for year after year. He is a great golfer. Not elite...but when you are continuously in the top 60 in the world of the thousands of guys attempting your profession you are pretty da#n good.

 

And I especially liked your reference to 20 win guys all time on tour. We may need a new benchmark though rather than 20 career wins. 20 of the top 38 ( 20 or more wins guys) were born over a century ago. Just 9 were born in the last 75 years.

It is all relative/semantics. I agree with what you said and my comments above. 

 

Look, I don't know how else to say it, but these guys have had fantastic careers. That's just want it is. It's like the opposite of re-arranging seats on the titantic, you're just re-arranging golden parachutes at this point. Yea, Tiger and Phil are at the top, but the guys below them are nothing to scoff at. We're all the fat guys on the couch watching Miss America at this point going "her nose is off center". Go look at the Korn Ferry qualifier last week, or this week. Guys shooting -7 not making it into the field, not even in the event. There's +6 out there you don't even know about, All-Americans who can't cut it, guys who can make the golf ball do anything and don't make it. It's not even at the point of paying the bills with golf, its how many generation of my family am I setting up at this point with golf. Wins are a barometer, but there's guy with more wins than CHIII who aren't on tour any more technically, Camilo, Hunter Mahan, Sean O'Hair.

 

At the end of the day, it's like a smell test. Say you're a corporate outing, at the range clinic. The announcer gets up and says "We have Charles Howell/Pat Perez  who has had a "fantastic" career"...you think most people would disagree? Same scenario but with Ty Tryon, you'd get a couple crossed eyed looks. 

Edited February 22, 2021 by Ironman_32

[Barfolomew]

Maybe golf is no big deal to him anymore.... it lost its luster. 

 

Unfortunately not like he can be honest about something like that with all those million $ golf sponsors

[YMark]

Fowler is getting pretty blistered on Golf Today today. In all fairness though, hopefully it will help him.

Edited March 3, 2021 by YMark

[BlackDiamondPar5]

Wow Nick! Is that tough love? ... 

[bbfifas]

On 2/22/2021 at 12:11 AM, rkelso184 said:

250k won this season 

5 PGA victories

3 international victories

1 other win 

14 2nd places

7 3rd places

72 top 10s

203 cuts mafe of 260 starts

Number 1 ameture for 36 weeks 

total winnings of 39Mil 

who knows how much he has made off endorsement deals

 

oh and his still only 32!

 

I think his doing quiet well

Not a hall a fame career (yet) because of the lack of wins, but (assuming your numbers are right), 72 top 10s is ridiculously good like 28% of his starts.  

[diggingestdog]

The human mind fascinates me. We’ve every reason to believe Fowler is at least reasonably content and perhaps very happy with his life; he’s done quite well for himself by any fair measurement. However, we consistently judge others by our own standards. What we think is successful, what we think is a prudent usage of time and talent, what we think we would want for ourselves and what we believe we would do were we in a similar situation. Instead of seeing a guy who seems to get that life is more than wins, we criticize him for not winning. We question his work ethic or mental toughness with no real knowledge of these things. We’re also quick to criticize someone obsessed with winning. We enjoy criticizing others, especially those we view as successful. 
 

We do this thing, which strikes me as odd, where we arbitrarily set the goal for others, then run what we think is the pertinent data through a grid of our own making. Then we come to what we think is an astute conclusion as to the professional and personal success this other person should have. 
 

Life is a balancing game, and it’s hard. For every bit of success we have there is a price. Time, relationships, reputation, stress levels are the currency. Success at an elite level in anything is costly. Yet when we see someone who might have a balance that suits them well we often try to tear them down for what is really our problem. Strange. 

Edited March 3, 2021 by diggingestdog
Grammar. Mom would smack me...

[QuigleyDU]

56 minutes ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

Wow Nick! Is that tough love? ... 

He is not wrong though.. The good knight with a death blow.. In the end now one will really remember Rickie Fowler but all of his endorsements. In fact, he may not be remembered at all.. Sad story.

[tacklingdummy]

To me, it is funny how people only equate success in golf with "wins". There is only one winner per week in a field of about 132-156 guys and only 50 tour events a year. So, it is increasingly harder and harder to win on tour especially when the talent is so deep. Just look at all the former PGA tour winners and even PGA Major tour winners on the Korn Ferry tour trying to get back to the PGA. Even just a couple of wins on the PGA tour is a major accomplishment. Fowler has 5 wins, so he is an exceptional player. 

[bscinstnct]

1 hour ago, QuigleyDU said:

He is not wrong though.. The good knight with a death blow.. In the end now one will really remember Rickie Fowler but all of his endorsements. In fact, he may not be remembered at all.. Sad story.

 

 

I’m trying to imagine Tiger or Jack or any true great saying something so lame about a fellow professional.

 

Alas, it fits with Faldos personality perfectly. 

 

Rickie and Sir Nick...

 

 

Edited March 3, 2021 by bscinstnct

[QuigleyDU]

6 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

 

I’m trying to imagine Tiger or Jack or any true great saying something so lame about a fellow professional.

 

Alas, it fits with Faldos personality perfectly. 

 

Rickie and Sir Nick...

 

 

I agree to a point, but Rickie has done this largely to himself. I dont feel at this point is wrong to just pretend it is not happening. 

 

Also, when Johnny Miller first became an announcer. There was a lot of upset pros that felt he was too harsh as he was their peer just previously. Sadly he is gone. We all complained about him but he was the best. 

[QuigleyDU]

24 minutes ago, tacklingdummy said:

To me, it is funny how people only equate success in golf with "wins". There is only one winner per week in a field of about 132-156 guys and only 50 tour events a year. So, it is increasingly harder and harder to win on tour especially when the talent is so deep. Just look at all the former PGA tour winners and even PGA Major tour winners on the Korn Ferry tour trying to get back to the PGA. Even just a couple of wins on the PGA tour is a major accomplishment. Fowler has 5 wins, so he is an exceptional player. 

WInning is what made Tiger great. Sure other tour pros are "successful" but it is winning that separates the cream from the rest.