Rick Shiels Butchers another Tech Review - AutoFlex

[jmorrow020]

I tried really really hard to watch the entire thing... but I just couldnt. He admits in the first :30 seconds that he doesnt talk about shafts because "he doesnt see a difference and theres too many out there" 

 

 

Can someone please get this dude a real fitting with some knowledge? Hes a huge influencer in the market whether we like it or not... it would be nice if he was actually producing the correct technical information. 

[MaineMariner]

Like him or not, Shiels is one of the very few "influencers" that will totally pan a product. Almost all of the online reviewers just read the press release for the club/ball/whatever, give it a couple whacks, and say a few nice but generic/non-controversial things and move on. 

 

So in that sense, I thought this review was great. He concluded with... no, this mysterious, ridiculously expensive shaft is not worth it. I think he's the first to come to this conclusion, and that's refreshing.

[1s1k]

+41

[Red4282]

Hes a giant ding dong..whats funny is stuff he says is a bust turns out to be a hit and vice versa lately. 

[Feelingofgreatness]

If the shaft is truly magical and worth $900, he should be able to pop it in and see some sort of gains. He used the right flex for his speed. 

I think he gave it a fair shake and was honest. 

Whereas the TXG guys just try to optimize to the nth degree using the swing of a plus handicap, then every 10-15 handicap goes out and spends $900 hoping to get similar results. 

Autoflex seems like marketing genius at its finest. 

[David69]

So what should he have done? Tried that shaft with 5 different club heads in an environmentally controlled studio? I find the TXG videos are far more problematic and unrealistic. They need to get rid of that guy who swings 125+ and get a mortal in there. Or just use a swing robot. 

[ckay]

I wouldn't say he butchered the review.  I think he gave honest feedback on the product.  

[MysteryV]

He butchered it because he didn't follow the manufacturers fitting recommendations.  He played it at the same length and head weight as his standard driver - which is NOT how the shaft is designed to perform.  

 

The value of this shaft is that it's supposed to be easier to square up at a longer, lighter weight.  Essentially, making you faster through length and mass - while the magic is face delivery.

 

Does it work?  I own one and am still in the testing process - so jury is still out.

 

Is it worth the money?  Depends on what the money means to you.  If you make $500k yr. - a couple hundred bucks probably doesn't mean a ton.  If you're a student making $10k /yr at a summer job - it's a fortune.

 

Did he deliver a good review?  Probably not.  Honest?  Yes.  But basically he bought an Ikea bed, didn't follow the assembly instructions, used his own hardware, guessed at where the pieces should go, and is pissed that it fell apart the first time he slept on it.  

[FatThinShank]

I think it was just such a contrast from the TXG videos that it feels like he didn't really test it but he did what pretty much anyone who bought one and stuck it in their driver would do. His content has shifted away from true equipment reviews and technique and into golf gimmicks and illegal clubs and whatnot. I'm not saying its a bad thing but I think he knows his growing audience is very young people who want to watch golf related entertainment as opposed to really technical stuff. He tested this just like he would any of the other random stuff, very surface level.

Edited December 28, 2020 by FatThinShank

[swagee]

2 hours ago, jmorrow020 said:

I tried really really hard to watch the entire thing... but I just couldnt. He admits in the first :30 seconds that he doesnt talk about shafts because "he doesnt see a difference and theres too many out there" 

 

 

Can someone please get this dude a real fitting with some knowledge? Hes a huge influencer in the market whether we like it or not... it would be nice if he was actually producing the correct technical information. 

 

His reviews are very digestible to some of us mortals, including yours truly. I don't know how "qualified" or "well-equipped" he is to do tech reviews, but he seems genuine enough to gain my attention.

If I want to know if an expensive shaft is worth a buy or not, I would want a bloke like Rick to go out on the course and hit balls with it, and then compare it in real time to his gamer. I don't want to see a "technical" guy hitting balls onto a screen and then giving me 50 different measurements, most of which are quite irrelevant to a weekend golfer. 

Rick's reviews offer a personal opinion on a product, and opinions are just that, opinions. They are not facts or claims. He can say what he wants on his videos, as long as he's being honest with himself and to his audience. 

[Valtiel]

If the whole schtick of the shaft is that it is meant to be played at much longer lengths to gain speed and whatever "magic" is in the construction helps you deliver that longer club more consistently, then isn't playing it at his standard length pretty much pointless? It removes half the reason you're supposed to gain anything. That said, they DID send him a standard length shaft so....? I don't really take anything away from this, but i'm not interested in the product anyway. 

[bward]

1 hour ago, Feelingofgreatness said:

If the shaft is truly magical and worth $900, he should be able to pop it in and see some sort of gains. He used the right flex for his speed. 

I think he gave it a fair shake and was honest. 

Whereas the TXG guys just try to optimize to the nth degree using the swing of a plus handicap, then every 10-15 handicap goes out and spends $900 hoping to get similar results. 

Autoflex seems like marketing genius at its finest. 

It’s not that simple and it’s not purely marketing. If built right and swung right it absolutely works.

[MysteryV]

11 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

If the whole schtick of the shaft is that it is meant to be played at much longer lengths to gain speed and whatever "magic" is in the construction helps you deliver that longer club more consistently, then isn't playing it at his standard length pretty much pointless? It removes half the reason you're supposed to gain anything. That said, they DID send him a standard length shaft so....? I don't really take anything away from this, but i'm not interested in the product anyway. 

 

I'm curious whether the shaft was sent directly from KHT cut and tipped, or if he just had it in it's original tube for branding.  He never says it was sent to him that way from KHT, and I kinda doubt it was.

 

Interestingly enough, he also starts with "I don't review shafts because I haven't seen any difference" and then goes on to see a big difference for the first time ... odd.

 

I like Rick, and I think he's pretty honest about his reviews.  That said, I'm hoping he takes the TXG guys up on a fitting and revisits this one.

 

EDIT TO ADD:

What I'd really like to see - is him test it at 46.5" versus a Ventus Red R2 flex at the same length.  I've begged for that review from the TXG guys - but have yet to have anyone do it.

Edited December 28, 2020 by MysteryV

[Feelingofgreatness]

9 minutes ago, bward said:

It’s not that simple and it’s not purely marketing. If built right and swung right it absolutely works.

If it really was that great, Matt from TXG would have put it in the bag and tour pros would actually be using it. Neither is the case.

 

[Valtiel]

11 minutes ago, MysteryV said:

 

I'm curious whether the shaft was sent directly from KHT cut and tipped, or if he just had it in it's original tube for branding.  He never says it was sent to him that way from KHT, and I kinda doubt it was.

 

Interestingly enough, he also starts with "I don't review shafts because I haven't seen any difference" and then goes on to see a big difference for the first time ... odd.

 

I like Rick, and I think he's pretty honest about his reviews.  That said, I'm hoping he takes the TXG guys up on a fitting and revisits this one.

 

EDIT TO ADD:

What I'd really like to see - is him test it at 46.5" versus a Ventus Red R2 flex at the same length.  I've begged for that review from the TXG guys - but have yet to have anyone do it.

Yeah i'd be curious to see that as well, especially with a full loop of initial data, fitted/optimized data, and then on course data to round it out. Just throwing it straight into the club in a non-recommended configuration and expecting some miracle just seems like lazy reviewing, but I also wouldn't want it to exist just in the fitting realm, we need to see all of it to really know anything for sure.  

[bward]

8 minutes ago, Feelingofgreatness said:

If it really was that great, Matt from TXG would have put it in the bag and tour pros would actually be using it. Neither is the case.

 

If you are basing what you buy based on what they pro’s use then you are very much buying into the pure marketing that you accuse the Autoflex of being.

[MysteryV]

5 minutes ago, Feelingofgreatness said:

If it really was that great, Matt from TXG would have put it in the bag and tour pros would actually be using it. Neither is the case.

 

 

On that note, if car seat heaters are really great, F1 drivers would be using them

If Wilson basketballs were great, the NBA would put them in play

If metal bats were great, they'd be used in the MLB

 

It's pretty well known that recreational golfers should play what the pros play - and that Callaway makes the best stuff or John Rahm wouldn't be testing / changin to it right? 

 

I should probably shut my mouth as I'd imagine you've done extensive testing right?

 

Let the silliness continue!  

[sticksgolf]

The shaft manufacturer's website is pretty sparse on technical details dang clear on the $790 price.

 

Let's see, if I do my whole bag it would only cost me $3600!

 

I'm not taking them seriously until they come out with a putter shaft.

 

Half measures and all...

[Feelingofgreatness]

24 minutes ago, bward said:

If you are basing what you buy based on what they pro’s use then you are very much buying into the pure marketing that you accuse the Autoflex of being.

Matt swings at speeds equal to or greater than tour pros. He is a plus HC. 

I don't base my buying on what pros use, but if the tech is valid, you would see it in their hands, similar to a stroke lab shaft or a sik putter face. 

 

Edited December 28, 2020 by Feelingofgreatness

[Feelingofgreatness]

6 minutes ago, sticksgolf said:

The shaft manufacturer's website is pretty sparse on technical details dang clear on the $790 price.

 

Let's see, if I do my whole bag it would only cost me $3600!

 

I'm not taking them seriously until they come out with a putter shaft.

 

Half measures and all...

They don't want anyone to copy their "hidden technology" 🤣

[Feelingofgreatness]

24 minutes ago, MysteryV said:

 

On that note, if car seat heaters are really great, F1 drivers would be using them

If Wilson basketballs were great, the NBA would put them in play

If metal bats were great, they'd be used in the MLB

 

It's pretty well known that recreational golfers should play what the pros play - and that Callaway makes the best stuff or John Rahm wouldn't be testing / changin to it right? 

 

I should probably shut my mouth as I'd imagine you've done extensive testing right?

 

Let the silliness continue!  

Sorry to hear they got you for a Gnote lol

[David69]

So is this shaft designed to be played at 48"? If that is the case then it needs to be measured up against ANY shaft that is cut longer. 

[MysteryV]

2 minutes ago, David69 said:

So is this shaft designed to be played at 48"? If that is the case then it needs to be measured up against ANY shaft that is cut longer. 

 

Entirely agree and have begged for that video for quite some time.  I'd 100% contribute to a "gofundme" for TXG to do the Ventus Red R2 flex uncut versus Autoflex of same length - both optimized with the head that gives the best results on each.

[MysteryV]

5 minutes ago, Feelingofgreatness said:

Sorry to hear they got you for a Gnote lol

 

When I get called out for poor logic and roasted in forums - I usually reply with something ending in "lol" in hopes that people will think I brushed the entire thing off, and am not a blowhard who doesn't know what he's talking about.

 

Welcome to the forum.

[morrisminor]

I have no desire to purchase this product really but new ideas are always interesting.  Rick didn't talk about the tech that allows it to firm up at impact so I watched the txg video to see if they shed light on the subject

 

I got interested in the numbers in the txg vid with statements such as 'I dont think I've hit any balls that far as long as I can remember'.  Plug the numbers for that shot (at 5:20) into flight scope trajectory optimiser and you get a carry of 300 for a total of 312, not 336 for a total of 374.  No mention of the stupidly low spin number.

 

He also says he is hitting it really well but seems to average about 1.41 smash.

 

Sure Rick's vid isn't really in depth but at least he doesn't seem to be trying to mislead. I have thought before that the txg vids seem to be trying to reach a predetermined conclusion that is best for their business and this seems no different.

[cachecropp]

I see two types of equipment reviewer/testers online. 1) they just go through the motions, reading off some of the marketing slogans  then hit a few balls and claim it’s a great product.  2) they hit a dozen balls at their 115 mph swing and claim Whether they like it better than product X.

 

This does nothing for the 90% of golfers who swing 80-105 and hit the ball all over the face with all kinds of swing paths.  Is it really so difficult to gather data at regular swing speeds and ball strikes on the four corners of the face so we can see the results with slight mishits at 85, 95, 105?

[MPAndreassi]

TXG did a good job of addressing the differences of their testing vs Rick's in the first 6-7 minutes of their live today. 

 

For those that don't want to watch, they basically said what a lot of people here have pointed out. That the shaft isn't supposed to be plug and play, although that's how 90% of the buyers will try to use it unfortunately. There is supposed to be a good deal of fitting involved to maximize the results from it. 

 

 

Edited December 28, 2020 by MPAndreassi

[QuigleyDU]

5 hours ago, MaineMariner said:

Like him or not, Shiels is one of the very few "influencers" that will totally pan a product. Almost all of the online reviewers just read the press release for the club/ball/whatever, give it a couple whacks, and say a few nice but generic/non-controversial things and move on. 

 

So in that sense, I thought this review was great. He concluded with... no, this mysterious, ridiculously expensive shaft is not worth it. I think he's the first to come to this conclusion, and that's refreshing.

 

He is not wrong, but he cant really tell you why he is not wrong. This shaft is all hype because of TXG and their videos for it. This shaft seems very inefficient to me. Longer lighter shaft will produce more ball speeds. But having watched a number of videos that speed is paired with crazy spin numbers. So it negates most of the gain. It also does not appear to me to be any more stable or accurate.. So for the crazy amount they are asking it is a pass. 

[calfan36]

Rick doesn't actually know much about clubs. When I used to watch his reviews more I could always point out 3-4 things he said in each video that were flat out wrong. 

 

Also his opinion is usually opposite of most people. He said the new King Tour irons feel horrible when others are saying softest ever. He said i500 feels very soft when others don't like the clicky feel

[LeoLeo99]

1 hour ago, QuigleyDU said:

 

He is not wrong, but he cant really tell you why he is not wrong. This shaft is all hype because of TXG and their videos for it. This shaft seems very inefficient to me. Longer lighter shaft will produce more ball speeds. But having watched a number of videos that speed is paired with crazy spin numbers. So it negates most of the gain. It also does not appear to me to be any more stable or accurate.. So for the crazy amount they are asking it is a pass. 

 

Seems suspicious to me that TXG films a rebuttal of Rick's review.  But I'm biased. I enjoy Rick and loathe TXG.