It's time, Pro's (and others) should get relief from divots...

[chigolfer1]

3 hours ago, Superbrit said:

I agree, cant even remember the last time i was in a divot, but it can be different on tour, a lot of players are hitting in to the same area, but its still not a lot, or doesn't seem to be, Westwood's just got emphasized due to when it happened and the cameraman followed it all the way in

 

Beside the point

[chigolfer1]

1 hour ago, sharkiesj said:

2 words come to mind when this topic comes up: 

 

Entitlement and Deserve. 
 

When you play golf, you’re not entitled to anything and deserve’s got nothing to do with it. 
 

 

 

Actually, yes, that's the whole point of having a fairway and rough.  You are rewarded for hitting it in the fairway and shouldn't then be penalized by literally damaged turf from another player

[chigolfer1]

27 minutes ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

This photo and question should be posted every time someone suggests a divot relief rule. 

 

So is the main argument that it's too hard to judge?  Don't we have to make judgements as prescribed by the rules for almost every rule?

[DavePelz4]

5 hours ago, KennyP said:

Whilst Westwood was clearly in a divot, you would effectively open the door to lift clean and place every shot.

 

Pro's get too much free relief, not too little.

 

 

Kenny, you get a like just for using whilst.

[iNeedMoreGolf]

Its ok... ive been doing this anyway. Im not playing a ball in a divot. Its broken ground that i didnt do and unfair. Id sooner and have hit from gravel or pavment which is way more fair and understandable. Its 2021... time to make all the rules make sense. If i hit underwater.... hand me my scuba gear and breathing tank and let me whack it out. See new rule. Its good for tv. Will he get bitten by something or drown? Or will he make par? If a fish hits into it while im down there... not my fault do penalize me.

[airjammer]

43 minutes ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

This photo and question should be posted every time someone suggests a divot relief rule. 

Trust me it is! Doesn’t help the the conversation at all thou. All ground at some point has been under repair..for whatever reason on the green we are allowed to repair a divot, in the bunker we repair divots but for some odd reason the fairway, even thou the course designer wanted you to hit it there is not subjected to the same standards🤷🏼‍♂️

[tatertot]

5 hours ago, Snaphooker12 said:

This would be abused to no end. 

Can you imagine giving a field of amateurs, with no supervision and playing with their buddy, this rule? It's basically a free ride to lift, clean and place anytime you're anywhere near the fairway.

[Hawkeye77]

37 minutes ago, chigolfer1 said:

 

Actually, yes, that's the whole point of having a fairway and rough.  You are rewarded for hitting it in the fairway and shouldn't then be penalized by literally damaged turf from another player

The point of rough is pretty much having grass that doesn't require the same level of maintenance as the fairway - it doesn't exist with the intent of creating a more difficult area to hit from but it can be the result.

[larciel]

11 minutes ago, tatertot said:

Can you imagine giving a field of amateurs, with no supervision and playing with their buddy, this rule? It's basically a free ride to lift, clean and place anytime you're anywhere near the fairway.

then just put the ruling to televised pro tournament only.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

39 minutes ago, chigolfer1 said:

 

So is the main argument that it's too hard to judge?  Don't we have to make judgements as prescribed by the rules for almost every rule?

 

19 minutes ago, airjammer said:

Trust me it is! Doesn’t help the the conversation at all thou. All ground at some point has been under repair..for whatever reason on the green we are allowed to repair a divot, in the bunker we repair divots but for some odd reason the fairway, even thou the course designer wanted you to hit it there is not subjected to the same standards🤷🏼‍♂️

I'll repost what I wrote earlier as my decision remains...

 

When does a divot stop being a divot and relief should not be permitted?  The photo posted earlier illustrates it nicely.   That is the problem and would open it to abuse.... "Oh is see some discoloration under my ball, so it must be a divot I need relief from."   Example BD's relief near the green yesterday is the kind of behavior that would lead to abuse of a divot relief rule.  Yeah it would be a disaster. 

 

The only workable solution I could ever see is something that eliminates the judgement call on whether it's still a divot or not.  While I'm opposed to a divot relief rule, if it were my job to write one, then I might propose the following.  A player is allowed free relief from their fairway lie for whatever reason they want no more than once per round.  The ball would be dropped within 1 standard grip length of the original location no nearer the hole.  Like I said I'm opposed to divot relief but if you were my boss and you told me to write one then I'd start there.   

 

 

[airjammer]

1 minute ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

 

I'll repost what I wrote earlier as my decision remains...

 

When does a divot stop being a divot and relief should not be permitted?  The photo posted earlier illustrates it nicely.   That is the problem and would open it to abuse.... "Oh is see some discoloration under my ball, so it must be a divot I need relief from."   Example BD's relief near the green yesterday is the kind of behavior that would lead to abuse of a divot relief rule.  Yeah it would be a disaster. 

 

The only workable solution I could ever see is something that eliminates the judgement call on whether it's still a divot or not.  While I'm opposed to a divot relief rule, if it were my job to write one, then I might propose the following.  A player is allowed free relief from their fairway lie for whatever reason they want no more than once per round.  The ball would be dropped within 1 standard grip length of the original location no nearer the hole.  Like I said I'm opposed to divot relief but if you were my boss and you told me to write one then I'd start there.   

 

 

I like that and think that’s fair. Going a different direction..something to that affect would possibly help members at the clubs that host events if they continue to play at their course longer before the tournament if divots are a concern. 

[Pepperturbo]

Its just you and a few others on social media.  Most good golfers including me accept the rules as they are. 

 

I wish people would stop whining.  Golf is difficult, and it requires practice, so you can hit ALL the shots needed to play golf.  If you don't want to practice, fine, then live with the consequences.   Sure it's a pain when we hit a fantastic shot down the middle and our ball ends up in an old divot.  But it's not all that different from hitting a stinky slice or smothered hook into the rough and allegedly playing the ball from where it lies.

 

Yep, some people have heard me say, dammit when my ball ends up in a spot that I don't like.  Still I remind myself that is why I practiced so much, then I hit the ball, forget it, and get on with my game.  What you won't find me doing in life is whining about something being unfair.  Divots in the rough or fairway are not ground under-repair.  They are as natural as the fairway is after it's been mowed to a make a nice place for us to hit the ball to and from.

 

Having said that, if someone doesn't like landing in a divot, bump the damn ball; most people, including me, don't care.  I'd rather people do that than the USGA & R&A water down the rules more to accommodate the unwillingness of people to practice and play by the rules.

[Krt22]

32 minutes ago, tatertot said:

Can you imagine giving a field of amateurs, with no supervision and playing with their buddy, this rule? It's basically a free ride to lift, clean and place anytime you're anywhere near the fairway.

That is essentially the only way the rule would work, anytime in the fairway, its ball in hand. Otherwise what is or isn't a divot is highly subjective and nearly impossible to define. There would be rules officials called out all the time

[airjammer]

5 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

Its just you and a few others on social media.  Most good golfers including me accept the rules as they are. 

 

I wish people would stop whining.  Golf is difficult, and it requires practice, so you can hit ALL the shots needed to play golf.  If you don't want to practice, fine, then live with the consequences.   Sure it's a pain when we hit a fantastic shot down the middle and our ball ends up in an old divot.  But it's not all that different from hitting a stinky slice or smothered hook into the rough and allegedly playing the ball from where it lies.

 

Yep, some people have heard me say, dammit when my ball ends up in a spot that I don't like.  Still I remind myself that is why I practiced so much, then I hit the ball, forget it, and get on with my game.  What you won't find me doing in life is whining about something being unfair.  Divots in the rough or fairway are not ground under-repair.  They are as natural as the fairway is after it's been mowed to a make a nice place for us to hit the ball to and from.

 

Having said that, if someone doesn't like landing in a divot, bump the damn ball; most people, including me, don't care.  I'd rather people do that than the USGA & R&A water down the rules more to accommodate the unwillingness of people to practice and play by the rules.

From all accounts..tour player are the most whiny of them all.  Rough it too long they take pictures and put on social media..sand too soft etc😢 

 

 

[Londoner]

I hate to break it to you guys.

Golfs not fair.

[DavePelz4]

Just keep a burrowing animal in your bag and if your ball ends up in a divot, pull it out and claim the varmint caused the predicament.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

1 minute ago, airjammer said:

From all accounts..tour player are the most whiny of them all.  Rough it too long they take pictures and put on social media..sand too soft etc😢 

 

 

LOL... I found it funny when Bryson was crying about the sand yesterday.  If he wants something to cry about I'll take him to my home course--- the bunker would turn into a water hazard from his tears 🤣

[tgoodspe1991]

3 hours ago, tungstenplug said:

 

Are these "divots"? Would you get relief from any or all of these?

 

 

Are all of these "spike marks" or other things on the green that you are now allowed to fix?

 

The answer is yes, all of them, if you so choose. 

 

It's not hard to create a functional rule that properly defines a "divot"...

Edited March 8, 2021 by tgoodspe1991

[Old Tom Morris]

2 hours ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

When does a divot stop being a divot and relief should not be permitted?  That is the problem and would open it to abuse. Example BD's relief near the green yesterday is the kind of behavior that would lead to abuse of a divot relief rule.  "Oh is see some discoloration under my ball, so it must be a divot I need relief from."   Yeah it would be a disaster. 

 

The only workable solution I could ever see is something that eliminates the judgement call on whether it's still a divot or not.  While I'm opposed to a divot relief rule, if it were my job to write one, then I might proposed the following.  A player is allowed free relief from their fairway lie for whatever reason they want no more than once per round.  The ball would be dropped within 1 standard grip length of the original location no nearer the hole.  Like I said I'm opposed to divot relief but if you were my boss and you told me to write one then I'd start there.   

 

A more pragmatic way to deal with the risk of landing in a divot is to lay up short of the high divot density or attempt to bomb over it. 

You would have to first rewrite the ROG.  There is no distinction of "fairway." Only teeing ground, putting green, hazard (now called penalty area), waste area, bunker, and "through the green."

[tgoodspe1991]

17 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

Its just you and a few others on social media.  Most good golfers including me accept the rules as they are. 

 

I wish people would stop whining.  Golf is difficult, and it requires practice, so you can hit ALL the shots needed to play golf.  If you don't want to practice, fine, then live with the consequences.   Sure it's a pain when we hit a fantastic shot down the middle and our ball ends up in an old divot.  But it's not all that different from hitting a stinky slice or smothered hook into the rough and allegedly playing the ball from where it lies.

 

Yep, some people have heard me say, dammit when my ball ends up in a spot that I don't like.  Still I remind myself that is why I practiced so much, then I hit the ball, forget it, and get on with my game.  What you won't find me doing in life is whining about something being unfair.  Divots in the rough or fairway are not ground under-repair.  They are as natural as the fairway is after it's been mowed to a make a nice place for us to hit the ball to and from.

 

Having said that, if someone doesn't like landing in a divot, bump the damn ball; most people, including me, don't care.  I'd rather people do that than the USGA & R&A water down the rules more to accommodate the unwillingness of people to practice and play by the rules.

 

I think you reducing an argument down to somebody "whining" because they don't "practice enough" or have an "unwillingness to play by the rules" is a gross and arrogant overstatement. 

 

I'm a +3 handicap and have been playing golf going on 26 years now. I've played at very high levels throughout my lifetime and proud of some of the things I've achieved, and my best ever handicap has been just over a +5 back in my college days. 

 

But to your point, let's all stop "whining" and let's do away with all these stupid rules over the years that have made golf "easier".

 

• Golfers used to not have to mark balls on the green and a player would by stymied, forced to chip over the ball. Well, play it as it lies, right? Let's bring that back! 
• Let's do away with the rules of allowing to tap down marks unnecessarily on the greens, that's ridiculous! 
• I say lets stop giving people relief just because one foot stands on a path or a sprinkler head. That's part of the golf course, deal with it!
• Also, what's this crap about leaving the pin in?! We shouldn't allow players a backboard on downhill putts, this isn't basketball!
• Why the heck do we now allow players to ground clubs in hazards or take practice swings?! It's a hazard for goodness sake!
• And don't even get me started on if you accidentally hit a ball during a practice stroke. You hit the ball! Count the stroke! You shouldn't be allowed to replace it for free!!!

 

Point is, things change over time and a game can evolve. It doesn't always have to be viewed as "making the game easier", but maybe some of these changes actually made sense. Maybe some of these new rules should've been there since the beginning, and the old way was actually the dumb way.

 

But you're right, all us bad golfers should just stop whining and practice more!

[games]

Can we just title this thread to reflect what it really is? 

 

"Let's make up a new rule that would have prevented Bryson DeChambeau from winning Bay Hill."

[games]

By the way, if Westwood was as good at driving the ball as BDC, he wouldn't have to worry about divots because his ball would have rolled beyond the divots...

[Creedo77]

8 minutes ago, games said:

By the way, if Westwood was as good at driving the ball as BDC, he wouldn't have to worry about divots because his ball would have rolled beyond the divots...

He didn't care either way, because he still hit a great shot which any other pro could do. 

 

 

[tgoodspe1991]

10 minutes ago, games said:

Can we just title this thread to reflect what it really is? 

 

"Let's make up a new rule that would have prevented Bryson DeChambeau from winning Bay Hill."

 

That's not at all what this thread is about. I'm a fan of Bryson and loved seeing him win. You're misinterpreting a completely separate discussion about divots as "Westwood should have won but was slighted!!" 

 

That's not it, at all. 

[Pepperturbo]

31 minutes ago, airjammer said:

From all accounts..tour player are the most whiny of them all.  Rough it too long they take pictures and put on social media..sand too soft etc😢 

 

 

That's true - they are NOT IMO an example to follow.  They are treated kinda like spoiled children...  "These guys are good", yet how many can't find the damn fairway using a long iron, while praised as examples by many on Golfwrx.  People that really don't know them or why they make certain decisions.

[airjammer]

8 minutes ago, games said:

Can we just title this thread to reflect what it really is? 

 

"Let's make up a new rule that would have prevented Bryson DeChambeau from winning Bay Hill."

Haha I’m sure some people might see it that way but in reality Lee’s divot situation in a sense removed all theatrically possibilities except Bryson 3 putting. From a good lie he could have been much more aggressive..that’s what that finishing hole is all about and neither player was forced to take any risks on their second shot. 

[nsxguy]

2 hours ago, disco111 said:

And yet we have have numerous allowances,within the rules, that allow for not adhering to that premise................

 

The vast majority of which recognize the need for man made accommodations necessary to route and run a golf course (paths, electrical boxes, sprinkler heads, etc.) and account for very unusual weather conditions.

 

Rule 1 - The Game, Player Conduct and the Rules

Purpose of Rule: Rule 1 introduces these central principles of the game:

• Play the course as you find it and play your ball as it lies.

[Krt22]

41 minutes ago, DavePelz4 said:

Just keep a burrowing animal in your bag and if your ball ends up in a divot, pull it out and claim the varmint caused the predicament.

I keep a jar of red fire ants in my bag, learned that one from Bryson

[nsxguy]

16 minutes ago, airjammer said:

Haha I’m sure some people might see it that way but in reality Lee’s divot situation in a sense removed all theatrically possibilities except Bryson 3 putting. From a good lie he could have been much more aggressive..that’s what that finishing hole is all about and neither player was forced to take any risks on their second shot. 

 

 

Haven't you seen these guys out of fairway bunkers with a perfect lie. It's the same as a fairway for them.

 

Westwood had a perfectly clean path to the back of that ball on 18 and hit it right where he was aiming. He was playing for a safe par and hoping BDC would make bogey.

 

Westwood lost it when he gagged on 16. Only an 8 iron into a par 5 for a great eagle chance and he not only didn't make eagle but he didn't even make birdie.

[Hawkeye77]

54 minutes ago, DavePelz4 said:

Just keep a burrowing animal in your bag and if your ball ends up in a divot, pull it out and claim the varmint caused the predicament.

 

Don't golf with Richard Gere!

 

(For those coming later, yes it is an urban legend only).

Edited March 8, 2021 by Hawkeye77