What is your criteria for "playing the tips"?

[RoyalMustang]

I had this discussion with a friend the other day. He argued that you should only play the tips if you are under a certain handicap. I argued that you should play the tips if you feel it gives you strokes (advantage) over what you would get from playing the regular men's tees, or you enjoy how it makes you think about the course.  Another person at my club put it this way: "I get 4.3 strokes from the tips vs the regular mens tees.  This is a big benefit, as I can hit the ball a long way and playing the middle tees often means I have to lay up.  Why not play the back tees, hit driver to the same spot, and get 4.3 strokes?".  FWIW, I bounce between a 5-7 cap (short game still in progress-I gave away 3 strokes today due to crappy chipping). 

 

Personally, I go along with the thinking that "if you have the distance and it is an advantage or you enjoy it, play the tips".  Today, on vacation, I played a 7150 yard course from the tips (which is pretty rare it seems, given that the regulars I played with had never seen anyone play from back there). Sure, I shot an 81 and would have shot better from a forward tee, but I also got the benefit of a 74.5/145.  It forced me to play "my" game as dictated by the course, as the fairway bunker carries were almost exactly 260 each time, which combined with a light headwind, was really a 275-280 carry and not automatic. I had to judge the situation. Had I played the next tee set up, the carry would have been 230, which wouldn't have been something to worry much about and I could have simply hit through the trouble. On another hole, I had either an awkward 260-290 landing zone or a layup with a 3-wood at 275 further right, which left me 110 to the pin. I chose the latter.  The next set of tees up allows one to go directly to the green with a 260 carry, but it almost feels like cheating, as the course was designed before a 260 carry was the norm for a regular men's tee.  

 

I don't think the tips should be handicap-based. There are plenty of close to scratch golfers out there in their 60's: they may only carry 225, but they have amazing short games and recovery shots.  Those people are at a disadvantage playing the tips; it would leave them a lot of 5-irons to the green when I am getting 54 degree to GW looks.  Unfortunately (for me), they always seem to recover for that par to halve the hole! 

 

 

 

 

[elwhippy]

Accept a higher score. The tips are for elite players. Be prepared to take three shots to hit par 4s and miss more greens. 

[Righty to Lefty]

I feel that it has more to do with distance that you can hit it as opposed to handicap.  You could be a scratch golfer and hit driver 230 yards and that simply doesn't play on most courses from the tips due to forced carries and such.  I have always hit the ball pretty far and so I find long courses to be a challenge that I rather enjoy while I can still hit it far enough.  The day that I lose distance to the point when I can't reach the green in regulation I will gladly move forward as that will still provide a challenge.  I do however believe that players should play from all the different tees as it will make the course play completely different and provide many different sight line and strategy options.   I have never shot under par, but at my current capability if I shot under par from the tips or one forward I would count it, but anything forward of that I would not count it because I carry the ball around 300 yards and regardless of handicap, at that distance any teebox forward more than one renders a course a driver wedge course.  

[klebs01]

Play whatever tees make you happy but play quickly. The mythology around the tips is dumb. Even mediocre golfers should play back from time to time just like good golfers playing forward. Get some different views and hit some different shots. 

[braincramp52]

Play whatever floats your boat. Personally, any chance to make the game easier I take advantage of.

[MiniJ83]

1 hour ago, klebs01 said:

Play whatever tees make you happy but play quickly. The mythology around the tips is dumb. Even mediocre golfers should play back from time to time just like good golfers playing forward. Get some different views and hit some different shots. 

Totally agree with this. I normally play the white tees and dont think much of it. Couple weeks ago I played the red tees with my wife and had an absolute blast. Then the week after, I played the blues at the same course. Completely different experience, but I got to hit several shots Ive never had to hit when playing the same course at the white tees. So while I may not "have the game" to play the tips every time...Im gonna play a couple rounds there just to switch up the course look a bit. 

[Roody]

My personal criteria is I'll play just about any tee at my home club, from the tips (6632 yds) down to the white tees (5804 yds). I like to mix it up, and since I've played my home club hundreds of times it's no big deal. My scores don't end up being too much different most of the time. 

If I am on vacation playing a course I do not know, or if it's a big-ticket bucket list type of course, I won't go near the tips. I will play the tees that are between 6200-6400 yards because I want to enjoy myself. It's not a course I will get to play often, and why beat myself up unnecessarily? 

[Captain Hook11]

1 hour ago, klebs01 said:

Play whatever tees make you happy but play quickly. The mythology around the tips is dumb. Even mediocre golfers should play back from time to time just like good golfers playing forward. Get some different views and hit some different shots. 

Agreed here. I played with 2 guys who hit from the tips Saturday and they were plenty long off the tee. Sure they could have shaved off strokes from the blues, but they said they wanted a challenge from 7,000. No harm done. My father-in-law though it was silly, but he believes "your second shot should always be around 150 or less. If not, you're playing too far back." I told him I'd like to have a birdie putt every hole too, but I digress.

 

Anyway, if you can get off the tee, it's a good way to see different kinds of shots. Anything over 6,600 is too far for me personally, but pace of play is all I care about. Knock yourself out otherwise.

[david.c.w]

I am going to play the tee that measures out to 6800 yards or so.  I really dont care if it is from the tips or not.  At my course the golds are at this number and the blacks are back at 7100.  There is not a significant difference in the 4's and 5's, but those extra yards on the par 3's will eat you up, and then it is not fun for a 4 index.

 

If i roll up to a new course somewhere and the tips are at 6800, I will play them.  I don't mind playing up but also don't want to hit hybrid or 4 iron off the tee on par 4's.  When i play with my FIL we play 6000 or so, and it is fun, but I don't want to play that way every round.

 

For me it is all about the overall course length, and I will usually scan the card to check out the par 3 lengths.  They should be in the 175 range.  Par 4's should be in the 400 range.  Par 5's length does not matter.  I want to have fun AND have a challenge.  6800 does it for me

 

edit:

Of course there are other factors.   Comments above are for an open parkland course.  If you throw me in a Florida housing development course with OB on both sides of every hole and water and marsh guarding every green, move me up some.

 

 

Edited June 1, 2022 by david.c.w

[Wham49]

I play the tips becasue it helps me keep the ball in play, the mens tees run out of room too quick and I need the extra room. I think it opens the course up and I don't need to be so precise about where I put my tee ball, on most courses, the distance is never an issue for me, it does not let you overpower the course when I am playing my best too, I like hitting more than driver SW, hitting longer irons into greens makes the round much more enjoyable

[TourSpoon]

If someone asked me to come up with a rule of thumb for who should play the tips I would probably say someone who carries it 250 and breaks 80 on a regular basis. I think this profile on a course from 6800-7100 would be best suited for that particular challenge. Again, this a general statement. 

 

Now if asked if I really care, I would have to admit that I don't as long as you keep pace. If someone shot 90 from the tips, no biggie - nothing to see here. If someone is on track to card a 130....well let's just say that I just don't want to see that. 

 

Personally, I like to play where I can hit a variety of shots throughout the round and have a balanced game. I don't mind an occasional 200 yard par 3 or a 430+ yard par 4, but not as a steady diet. I am generally looking at 6300-6600 yards for a typical round. 

 

If @RoyalMustang shot 81 from the tips in my group, no one would blink an eye. And as far as those old guys, I played with a guy who shot his age at 72 playing from 6100 yards. I was so happy he was on my team! In the end, we just want to play golf and enjoy the experience. 

[MtlJeff]

I don't know that there is a right answer. Most of the A players at my course don't play the tips unless it's a tournament, but they are mostly older guys (55+) and don't hit it as far as they used to. So they enjoy 6300~ type courses.

 

I will typically play the tips at any course i play , though they typically max out around here at ~7000 yds which for me is fine. If you play the tips at courses like Le Diable (resort that plays 7050 as a par 71) , they look at you like you are an alien. Some courses they try to discourage you.

 

If you can play enjoyable golf and keep pace with the field--I guess play whichever tees you want. This is what slope and rating is for--it adjusts for this

[Wham49]

as long as you keep pace, IDK where you play from just don't make me wait to hit

[makana]

people who hit the ball a long way should be playing from the back tees. a lot of the courses it takes driver out of my hands and it is an advantage for me to play a longer course. Some would say longer the better. I always looked at it as if driving is your strength then playing a longer course you should play into your hands vs your playing competitors. As is playing a course with good greens vs poor greens if you are a great putter.  A better putter will play better on slicker smoother greens vs a bumpy and furry green surface. 

 

in short. If you hit it a long ways...i want to play a longer course. 

[vandyfan]

58 minutes ago, Roody said:

 

If I am on vacation playing a course I do not know, or if it's a big-ticket bucket list type of course, I won't go near the tips. I will play the tees that are between 6200-6400 yards because I want to enjoy myself. It's not a course I will get to play often, and why beat myself up unnecessarily? 

 

I will preface that as long as people keep up with pace play from wherever but this is the correct answer in my opinion. I play golf on vacations all the time with guys that are too prideful to play less than 6200 yds and then I watch them not be able to reach par 4s in two, hit the ball out of bounds constantly, etc. Seems unfun. 

 

5 hours ago, Righty to Lefty said:

I feel that it has more to do with distance that you can hit it as opposed to handicap. 

 

To a point, but if someone can hit a driver 290+ but is also a double digit handicap, maybe they should learn some control from 6200 yds before stepping back to the tips. 

[TLUBulldogGolf]

I think both factor but if you are single digit or better and hit it pretty far you could consider it, it just depends on how long the course is. 7200+ you should be hitting it around 280-300+, if it's shorter you don't need to be hitting it quite that far. The 5 iron distance times 36 seems like a decent rule of thumb.

 

A high handicap that hits it far could also consider it but I feel like they will be quite crooked and take forever. 

Edited June 1, 2022 by TLUBulldogGolf

[MattM97]

Really depends on the course I've played some courses the "Tips" were not even 6000 and other courses where the white tees were 6300 and still had 3 other tee boxes back. I do hit it long but not always straight and if I'm not hitting it well I'll move up cause I don't want to make a long course even longer. 

[Fuscinator]

Putting has passed driving as the best part of my game, but only because I got better/less horrible at putting. I still drive reasonably well and hit it pretty straight (most of the time😏). Playing from the tips increases the likelihood I'll be able to hit a little punch with my 11-wood instead of one of my irons (easily the worst part of my game), so I might be better off playing back there. Also, I don't dilly-dally, so at least I'm not the one holding people up.

[vandyfan]

15 minutes ago, TLUBulldogGolf said:

The 5 iron distance times 36 seems like a decent rule of thumb.

 

For a tour player that is basically 7,200 yds which is 36 * 200. I think that is the average length on tour. Why would we test the average player with the same relative length as a tour player? 

[sandpounder]

I think people should play from any tee they want, as long as they keep up play & do not make others wait.

[braincramp52]

At my home course it doesn't matter which set of tees you play. If you can't hit the fairway, you're screwed. 

[TLUBulldogGolf]

9 minutes ago, blackbdmillsaps said:

 

For a tour player that is basically 7,200 yds which is 36 * 200. I think that is the average length on tour. Why would we test the average player with the same relative length as a tour player? 

 

Someone that can hit a 5 iron 200 yards is probably a pretty decent player. And your average course is not going to be set up anything like a tour course. I hit my 5 iron that far and 7200 yards doesn't feel particularly long to me on a normal day. All that said, it's just to get a gauge of where you could potentially play, play wherever you are going to enjoy it most. 

[vandyfan]

2 minutes ago, TLUBulldogGolf said:

All that said, it's just to get a gauge of where you could potentially play, play wherever you are going to enjoy it most. 

 

Yes the above, and I admit I am a bit of evangelist on this topic. This is a message board and the OP is soliciting opinions so I am happy to trot out a hard line take in the interest of discussion. The question is what is your criteria for playing the tips. For my argument, I am assuming the tips is at least 6,800 yds and the course has some O.B. and hazards but is not overly penal or tight but also not completely wide open. Again, this is my criteria not something I am trying to enforce on all golfers on this message board. 

 

Avg Driver Carry: 260+

Avg differential/HDCP: 3.0 or less

Lateral Dispersion with a driver: 60 yds or less (typical width of landing zones at most standard courses I see)

Avg distance for 2nd shot into par 4: 150 yds or less (the tour average based on shotlink is about 140 yds left into par 4s) -- this may be the most controversial metric

 

To me, all of these need to be present. If you can't hit your driver more than 250 you are going to be coming with long irons frequently into greens that may not be receptive to long irons (of course there are exceptions). If your differential/handicap is typically more than 3.0 I would argue that the next tees up will still be PLENTY challenging for you. If you spray your driver, then playing from way back is going to force you to hit driver more often. If you play closer up, you now have the option to either bang driver OR hit a fwy wood/hybrid to the same spot you would be trying to land a driver from the tips. Finally, if a player has tons of power but can't break 80 from 6,200 yds maybe they should tidy their game up a bit?

[Rosco1216]

I play the back tees no matter the course. I like to get the most out of my yards per dollar.

[TLUBulldogGolf]

4 minutes ago, blackbdmillsaps said:

 

Yes the above, and I admit I am a bit of evangelist on this topic. This is a message board and the OP is soliciting opinions so I am happy to trot out a hard line take in the interest of discussion. The question is what is your criteria for playing the tips. For my argument, I am assuming the tips is at least 6,800 yds and the course has some O.B. and hazards but is not overly penal or tight but also not completely wide open. Again, this is my criteria not something I am trying to enforce on all golfers on this message board. 

 

Avg Driver Carry: 260+

Avg differential/HDCP: 3.0 or less

Lateral Dispersion with a driver: 60 yds or less (typical width of landing zones at most standard courses I see)

Avg distance for 2nd shot into par 4: 150 yds or less (the tour average based on shotlink is about 140 yds left into par 4s) -- this may be the most controversial metric

 

To me, all of these need to be present. If you can't hit your driver more than 250 you are going to be coming with long irons frequently into greens that may not be receptive to long irons (of course there are exceptions). If your differential/handicap is typically more than 3.0 I would argue that the next tees up will still be PLENTY challenging for you. If you spray your driver, then playing from way back is going to force you to hit driver more often. If you play closer up, you now have the option to either bang driver OR hit a fwy wood/hybrid to the same spot you would be trying to land a driver from the tips. Finally, if a player has tons of power but can't break 80 from 6,200 yds maybe they should tidy their game up a bit?

 

I gave my criteria, doesn't seem drastically different. I would probably up the handicap limit if anything. Easy to say people should tidy up their game, a lot are just out there to play and enjoy it, though most probably won't enjoy it as much from all the way back. I prefer to play all the way back most places because it better suits my distance and typically offers me the most interesting challenge.

[cgasucks]

For me, if I was playing at a course that I've never played before, I look at their scorecard and decide what tees to play by the length of their par 3s.  I don't like playing par 3s that are over 200 yards so I play the tees that are the next step down that aren't 200 yards and the rest of the holes at that same level.

[vandyfan]

11 minutes ago, TLUBulldogGolf said:

a lot are just out there to play and enjoy it, though most probably won't enjoy it as much from all the way back.

 

That is a very efficient way to phrase what I spent way too many words saying. 

 

11 minutes ago, TLUBulldogGolf said:

Easy to say people should tidy up their game, a lot are just out there to play and enjoy it,

 

Again, I'm not saying people that don't have time to practice or get better can't play out there...I'm just saying don't play the tips. I work on my game a decent amount and there are days I can't break 80 from 6,200 yds. Golf is hard. Playing from the tips makes it harder. If someone is a super low cap, they are probably bored at shorter distances but for the vast majority the amount of variability and inconsistency in their games makes golf "interesting/exciting/challenging" from much less than 6,800 yds. And quickly, I just want to post a scorecard example here:

 

 

This is a standard, higher end public golf course in my city. It has two par 5s that are over 600 yds long, a 480 yd par 4 and par 3s that average out to be about 200 yds. That just does not seem fun to me. 

 

Edited June 1, 2022 by blackbdmillsaps

[smashdn]

7,000 yards or so provided it is not a super tight course.  Though, in my experience, the super tight courses are usually not overly long to boot.

 

I suck because of dispersion and lack of consistency not a lack of distance.

[vandyfan]

1 minute ago, smashdn said:

I suck because of dispersion and lack of consistency not a lack of distance.

 

Is your dispersion less using a fairway wood or hybrid off the tee? You would have that option more often at 6,500 yds, no?

[Rosco1216]

24 minutes ago, blackbdmillsaps said:

 

That is a very efficient way to phrase what I spent way too many words saying. 

 

 

Again, I'm not saying people that don't have time to practice or get better can't play out there...I'm just saying don't play the tips. I work on my game a decent amount and there are days I can't break 80 from 6,200 yds. Golf is hard. Playing from the tips makes it harder. If someone is a super low cap, they are probably bored at shorter distances but for the vast majority the amount of variability and inconsistency in their games makes golf "interesting/exciting/challenging" from much less than 6,800 yds. And quickly, I just want to post a scorecard example here:

 

 

This is a standard, higher end public golf course in my city. It has two par 5s that are over 600 yds long, a 480 yd par 4 and par 3s that average out to be about 200 yds. That just does not seem fun to me. 

 

Contrarily, this seems extremely fun to me.