LIV Tour Discussion Thread (*** NO POLITICS ***)

[iBanesto]

  

53 minutes ago, tomjas said:

And yet he’s a much better player than most of the field in that b grade event being played this weekend 

 

Probably just prefers to play in Europe & Asia 

 

All these players playing in the Corales Puntacana Championship are ranked higher than Catlin on the OWGR.

 

• Corales Puntacana Championship Field Strength - 140.63349  
• Saudi Open presented by PIF Field Strength - 48.67779

Prediction: You're going to say the OWGR is obsolete. Give me a better objective measure rather than your emotions.

 

I actually like Catlin after his solid win at Valderrama in 2020.

 

34		Nicolai Hojgaard	0.90854	3.13274
67		Alex Noren	1.19836	4.17371
74		Mark Hubbard	0.79539	2.80078
77		Aaron Rai	0.85259	2.96395
84		Billy Horschel	0.74492	2.66428
91		Ben Griffin	0.74925	2.67573
92		Kyoung-Hoon Lee	0.53559	2.16563
93		Victor Perez	0.57676	2.25571
95		Thriston Lawrence	0.30555	1.72460
102		Justin Suh	0.43324	1.95697
103		Sam Ryder	0.58748	2.27978
106		Taylor Pendrith	0.35690	1.81452
109		Chan Kim	0.15305	1.48294
111		Charley Hoffman	0.01768	1.29696
112

Chun-an Yu	0.28021	1.68186
113		Nate Lashley	0.54811	2.19263
116		Michael Kim	0.43629	1.96288
121		Jorge Campillo	0.19951	1.55273
122		Davis Thompson	0.64067	2.40303
124		Doug Ghim	0.67648	2.48974
125		Matti Schmid	0.04509	1.33262
126		Seonghyeon Kim	0.28146	1.68395
127		Samuel Stevens	0.29784	1.71148
128		Ben Silverman	0.28970	1.69775
129		Alex Smalley	0.19447	1.54500
131		Yechun Carl Yuan	-0.20090	1.04460
133		Ben Kohles	0.17317	1.51278
137		Chez Reavie	0.05557	1.34652
138		Max Greyserman	0.27528	1.67367
146		Richard Hoey	-0.10110	1.15308
148		Alex Fitzpatrick	0.10375	1.41231
149		Brandon Wu	0.20577	1.56239
153		Justin Lower	0.31260	1.73666
156		Tyler Duncan(Jul1989)	0.19219	1.54152
161		Hayden Buckley	-0.27648	0.96930
162		Joe Highsmith	0.12744	1.44582
163		Joel Dahmen	-0.06917	1.19011
164		Jimmy Stanger	0.02162	1.30202
168		Carson Young	0.10308	1.41137
174		Nick Hardy	0.28274	1.68609
176		Ben Martin	0.26317	1.65374
177		Garrick Higgo	0.24254	1.62031
184		Greyson Sigg	0.36267	1.82492
185		Parker Coody	-0.01268	1.25856
188		Matthew NeSmith	0.02845	1.31085
189		Peter Kuest	0.05272	1.34273
194		Jacob Bridgeman	0.29674	1.70962
196		Adrien Dumont de Chassart	-0.44950	0.81672
200		Joseph Bramlett	0.42428	1.93967
201		Pierceson Coody	-0.64354	0.67399
214		Vincent Whaley	-0.01487	1.25583
217		McClure Meissner	-0.00289	1.27081
222		David Lipsky	-0.24248	1.00248
223		Callum Tarren	-0.27271	0.97293

Edited April 21 by iBanesto

[Hawkeye77]

29 minutes ago, iBanesto said:

  

 

All these players playing in the Corales Puntacana Championship are ranked higher than Catlin on the OWGR.

 

• Corales Puntacana Championship Field Strength - 140.63349  
• Saudi Open presented by PIF Field Strength - 48.67779

Prediction: You're going to say the OWGR is obsolete. Give me a better objective measure rather than your emotions.

 

I actually like Catlin after his solid win at Valderrama in 2020.

 

34		Nicolai Hojgaard	0.90854	3.13274
67		Alex Noren	1.19836	4.17371
74		Mark Hubbard	0.79539	2.80078
77		Aaron Rai	0.85259	2.96395
84		Billy Horschel	0.74492	2.66428
91		Ben Griffin	0.74925	2.67573
92		Kyoung-Hoon Lee	0.53559	2.16563
93		Victor Perez	0.57676	2.25571
95		Thriston Lawrence	0.30555	1.72460
102		Justin Suh	0.43324	1.95697
103		Sam Ryder	0.58748	2.27978
106		Taylor Pendrith	0.35690	1.81452
109		Chan Kim	0.15305	1.48294
111		Charley Hoffman	0.01768	1.29696
112

Chun-an Yu	0.28021	1.68186
113		Nate Lashley	0.54811	2.19263
116		Michael Kim	0.43629	1.96288
121		Jorge Campillo	0.19951	1.55273
122		Davis Thompson	0.64067	2.40303
124		Doug Ghim	0.67648	2.48974
125		Matti Schmid	0.04509	1.33262
126		Seonghyeon Kim	0.28146	1.68395
127		Samuel Stevens	0.29784	1.71148
128		Ben Silverman	0.28970	1.69775
129		Alex Smalley	0.19447	1.54500
131		Yechun Carl Yuan	-0.20090	1.04460
133		Ben Kohles	0.17317	1.51278
137		Chez Reavie	0.05557	1.34652
138		Max Greyserman	0.27528	1.67367
146		Richard Hoey	-0.10110	1.15308
148		Alex Fitzpatrick	0.10375	1.41231
149		Brandon Wu	0.20577	1.56239
153		Justin Lower	0.31260	1.73666
156		Tyler Duncan(Jul1989)	0.19219	1.54152
161		Hayden Buckley	-0.27648	0.96930
162		Joe Highsmith	0.12744	1.44582
163		Joel Dahmen	-0.06917	1.19011
164		Jimmy Stanger	0.02162	1.30202
168		Carson Young	0.10308	1.41137
174		Nick Hardy	0.28274	1.68609
176		Ben Martin	0.26317	1.65374
177		Garrick Higgo	0.24254	1.62031
184		Greyson Sigg	0.36267	1.82492
185		Parker Coody	-0.01268	1.25856
188		Matthew NeSmith	0.02845	1.31085
189		Peter Kuest	0.05272	1.34273
194		Jacob Bridgeman	0.29674	1.70962
196		Adrien Dumont de Chassart	-0.44950	0.81672
200		Joseph Bramlett	0.42428	1.93967
201		Pierceson Coody	-0.64354	0.67399
214		Vincent Whaley	-0.01487	1.25583
217		McClure Meissner	-0.00289	1.27081
222		David Lipsky	-0.24248	1.00248
223		Callum Tarren	-0.27271	0.97293

 

[Hawkeye77]

1 hour ago, tomjas said:

You’re commenting on a tour that you don’t watch & upon South Australian planning legislation without having any knowledge of it

 

Facts aren’t your strong point 

 

 

And which facts have been wrong? 
 

Easy to have knowledge in this instance with little effort - just have to care about getting things correct.

[Shilgy]

2 hours ago, tomjas said:

And yet he’s a much better player than most of the field in that b grade event being played this weekend 

 

Probably just prefers to play in Europe & Asia 

Yeah, who’d want to play on the big boys tour when the Asian tour is beckoning,  That really makes sense.🤔

[bobfoster]

[tomjas]

39 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

Yeah, who’d want to play on the big boys tour when the Asian tour is beckoning,  That really makes sense.🤔

Catlin is a 3 time winner on the European Tour and could’ve made the jump before now 

 

He’s playing on the Asian Tour atm because he lost his DPWT & AT playing rights 

[dalehead]

17 hours ago, 19thteegala said:

I watch both LIV and pga tour.

I have a question for the LIV haters. Will you watch golf once the merger is completed? There will be LIV guys playing.

 

Also Anthony Kim playing on Liv is a joke.

I will watch under the following conditions. 

1. They get rid of Arlo White, Jerry Foltz and Feherety. This assumes they are not replaced by a new set of announcers who continue to tell me that LIV and its players are the most spectacular thing in golf multiple times per hour.

2. They cut out the music.

3. Their TV production focuses more on the leaders and less on jumping all over the course in an effort to see how many shots per minute they can get in, meaningful or not.

4. A LIV player goes to Adelaide and is sensible enough to say “There is no effin way I’m drinking a beer out of a shoe. Mine or anybody else’s.”

5. They get rid of Poulter, Westwood, Kaymer, and at least two dozen other players who are no where near able to compete at the highest level.

6. Get rid of Greg Norman. No explanation needed on this one.

[Shilgy]

22 minutes ago, tomjas said:

Catlin is a 3 time winner on the European Tour and could’ve made the jump before now 

 

He’s playing on the Asian Tour atm because he lost his DPWT & AT playing rights 

HE COULDN'T CUT IT.

 

Tried for four years and failed miserably making 4 cuts in 13 events.  Went to smaller tours and had some, apparently, fleeting success.

 

And none of those events, in spite of your proclamations otherwise, have better fields than this weeks “B” event as you tried to claim.

 

TTFN

[19thteegala]

17 minutes ago, dalehead said:

I will watch under the following conditions. 

1. They get rid of Arlo White, Jerry Foltz and Feherety. This assumes they are not replaced by a new set of announcers who continue to tell me that LIV and its players are the most spectacular thing in golf multiple times per hour.

2. They cut out the music.

3. Their TV production focuses more on the leaders and less on jumping all over the course in an effort to see how many shots per minute they can get in, meaningful or not.

4. A LIV player goes to Adelaide and is sensible enough to say “There is no effin way I’m drinking a beer out of a shoe. Mine or anybody else’s.”

5. They get rid of Poulter, Westwood, Kaymer, and at least two dozen other players who are no where near able to compete at the highest level.

6. Get rid of Greg Norman. No explanation needed on this one.

Some interesting points. I have some answers to your points:

 

1. I dont mind them but expect a change there with the merger/ dual tour set up.

2. The music is good oncourse. Not sure if you mean the bleed into the broadcast?

3. If you watch the coverage, it is mainly leaders.

4. A shoey is an aussie sporting tradition. But up to the player of course.

5. Greg Norman stays. If its the ceo of liv or the ceo of the merged tour.

[mosesgolf]

Imo take out Rahm, Niemann, Cam Smith, Bryson, and BK - top 25 Korn Ferry guys are deeper than the next 25 LIV.  Compare depth of the bottom 25 I’d bet the farm on the hungry Korn Ferry gents.  In other words I have no respect for the current depth at LIV.  

[tomjas]

1 hour ago, mosesgolf said:

Imo take out Rahm, Niemann, Cam Smith, Bryson, and BK - top 25 Korn Ferry guys are deeper than the next 25 LIV.  Compare depth of the bottom 25 I’d bet the farm on the hungry Korn Ferry gents.  In other words I have no respect for the current depth at LIV.  

The top 25 guys on the KFT weren’t good enough to get a PGAT card

 

You do know that Dustin Johnson finished top 10 in a major last year?

 

And that’s just a random pick from LIV guys you haven’t named 

 

It’s the bottom 15 on LIV that needs boosting

[Short Pete]

LIV has maybe 10 players who could be good on the PGA if they wanted (DJ doesn’t want to, Cam Smith didn’t practice in the Off-Season). 15, maybe 20 players who could hold their card on PGA and DP World (the Ancers, Meronks, Mito Pereiras). The rest is Maybes and Hasbeens. Westwood, Watdon, Poulter, Perez, Uihlein, Ogletree…

 

And the Asian Tour is weak, period. They can all play golf, but most of them not on the big show. If otherwise they would. That’s the good thing in a meritocratic sport. You earn your way up by playing well. That’s why Uihlein didn’t cut the mustard in the big tours. 

[bscinstnct]

6 hours ago, 19thteegala said:

Some interesting points. I have some answers to your points:

 

1. I dont mind them but expect a change there with the merger/ dual tour set up.

2. The music is good oncourse. Not sure if you mean the bleed into the broadcast?

3. If you watch the coverage, it is mainly leaders.

4. A shoey is an aussie sporting tradition. But up to the player of course.

5. Greg Norman stays. If its the ceo of liv or the ceo of the merged tour.

 

In a greater sense, “watching” golf if like watching any form of entertainment on 📺. Whether it’s a sporting event, a movie, documentary, series. 
 

You put it on, if it’s good, you watch. If it’s ok, you give it a try for 10-20 minutes and then decide. If it sucks, you flip the channel. 
 

So far, I’ve put on LIV about 2 dozen times and changed the channel within 30 seconds every time.

 

“With Prejudice” 🤣

 

It’s an immediate feeling of disdain bordering on disgust. The announcers affected accents pretending it’s exciting. Pat Perez and the aging Euros and Kevin Na, the mumble rap. 

 

And then seeing Rahm, skulking around in broad daylight in his dopey uniform, sellout. 
 

You have to understand that, while I appreciate that LIV has fans, especially in regions than have not been covered by the pga tour, 

 

A huge percentage and even possibly a great majority of golf fans see the same thing I do when they tune into LIV

 

If the merger can’t fix this. 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 21 by bscinstnct

[tomjas]

3 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

In a greater sense, “watching” golf if like watching any form of entertainment on 📺. Whether it’s a sporting event, a movie, documentary, series. 
 

You put it on, if it’s good, you watch. If it’s ok, you give it a try for 10-20 minutes and then decide. If it sucks, you flip the channel. 
 

So far, I’ve put on LIV about 2 dozen times and changed the channel within 30 seconds every time.

 

“With Prejudice” 🤣

 

It’s an immediate feeling of disdain bordering on disgust. The announcers affected accents pretending it’s exciting. Pat Perez and the aging Euros and Kevin Na, the mumble rap. 

 

And then seeing Rahm, skulking around in broad daylight in his dopey uniform, sellout. 
 

You have to understand that, while I appreciate that LIV has fans, especially in regions than have not been covered by the pga tour, 

 

A huge percentage and even possibly a great majority of golf fans see the same thing I do when they tune into LIV

 

 

 

 

Such an odd take as you can’t judge anything in 30 seconds 

 

It’s golf at the end of the day 

[iBanesto]

58 minutes ago, tomjas said:

Such an odd take as you can’t judge anything in 30 seconds 

 

It’s golf at the end of the day 

 

😅

 

Edited April 21 by iBanesto

[bscinstnct]

37 minutes ago, tomjas said:

Such an odd take as you can’t judge anything in 30 seconds 

 

It’s golf at the end of the day 

 

Odd as it seems to you, it’s why nobody watches LIV. Just can’t stand the sight or sound of it. 

 

What do you think the reason is?

 

How has LIV signed so many big names, but actually experienced declining interest levels? 
 

As we know…You can pay a fortune great actors. But if the movie 🎥 sucks, nobody watches lol

 

 

[tomjas]

4 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

Odd as it seems to you, it’s why nobody watches LIV. Just can’t stand the sight or sound of it. 

 

What do you think the reason is?

 

How has LIV signed so many big names, but actually experienced declining interest levels? 
 

As we know…You can pay a fortune great actors. But if the movie 🎥 sucks, nobody watches lol

 

 

And yet they still have have a significantly bigger tournament than all bar a couple of PGAT events 

 

Seems like both sides have problems but only one has growth potential 

[Hawkeye77]

44 minutes ago, tomjas said:

And yet they still have have a significantly bigger tournament than all bar a couple of PGAT events 

 

 

LOL.  

 

Yep, one event with a drunk fest hole to sell tickets - not really apples to apples.

 

The RBC Heritage this week will likely compare favorably to LIV's "signature" event - based on its numbers last year it's likely to be close or even more, depends on how many more LIV can lure to its hospitality area around the drunk hole (really the true draw).  We'll know in a few weeks.  After misrepresenting the crowds at the RBC yesterday perhaps you tuned in to see the healthy attendance?

 

Otherwise, week in and week out and by any reasonable metric, LIV attendance is terrible and PGA Tour attendance pretty strong and of course way more fans, weather in the U.S. or in those areas "starved" to see the magnificence of all the LIV players.

 

But keep making stuff up . . .

Edited April 21 by Hawkeye77

[bscinstnct]

21 minutes ago, tomjas said:

And yet they still have have a significantly bigger tournament than all bar a couple of PGAT events 

 

Seems like both sides have problems but only one has growth potential 

 

Yes, well, the bar is pretty low for LIV to improve on 🤣

 

“Attorneys for LIV Golf claim the league generated “virtually zero” revenue”

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/liv-golf-revenue-2023/amp

 

[the bishop]

5 hours ago, tomjas said:

You do know that Dustin Johnson finished top 10 in a major last year?

 

In the U.S., when you reach full retirement age you can collect Social Security and still work with no limit on your earnings.  That's kinda how I look at DJ in LIV right now.

[tomjas]

11 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

Yes, well, the bar is pretty low for LIV to improve on 🤣

 

“Attorneys for LIV Golf claim the league generated “virtually zero” revenue”

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/liv-golf-revenue-2023/amp

 

Not my money so why should I care 

 

Are you worried that PGAT’s ratings are tanking?

[tomjas]

2 minutes ago, the bishop said:

In the U.S., when you reach full retirement age you can collect Social Security and still work with no limit on your earnings.  That's kinda how I look at DJ in LIV right now.

He’s won 4 or 5 LIV events 

 

Good income for a retiree

[Chanceman]

Liv is a fake competition. When the players are owned by the owner of the competition it’s fake. For most of us it’s just too easy to spot. But for some they hate the PGA tour so much they are blind to the silliness of Liv.

[freeze16172002]

1 hour ago, tomjas said:

Such an odd take as you can’t judge anything in 30 seconds 

 

It’s golf at the end of the day 

food, attractiveness, smell, music, clothes and liv, things you can judge in 30 seconds

 

[tomjas]

2 minutes ago, Chanceman said:

Liv is a fake competition. When the players are owned by the owner of the competition it’s fake. For most of us it’s just too easy to spot. But for some they hate the PGA tour so much they are blind to the silliness of Liv.

PGAT players are owned by the PGAT

 

Players thought they were independent contractors but that’s not the case when you join the tour 

 

 

[freeze16172002]

42 minutes ago, tomjas said:

And yet they still have have a significantly bigger tournament than all bar a couple of PGAT events 

 

Seems like both sides have problems but only one has growth potential 

how do you judge a "bigger" tournament"? Who has the growth potential? A league with a minor league system or a league without one? young talent for free or paying 100's of millions for a major champ?  Having a supply chain or not having one? explain?

[Hawkeye77]

10 minutes ago, freeze16172002 said:

food, attractiveness, smell, music, clothes and liv, things you can judge in 30 seconds

 

 

Smells like "team spirit"!

[BlackDiamondPar5]

7 minutes ago, tomjas said:

PGAT players are owned by the PGAT

 

Players thought they were independent contractors but that’s not the case when you join the tour 

 

 

You clearly are not speaking from a position of knowledge. 

[tomjas]

5 minutes ago, freeze16172002 said:

how do you judge a "bigger" tournament"? Who has the growth potential? A league with a minor league system or a league without one? young talent for free or paying 100's of millions for a major champ?  Having a supply chain or not having one? explain?

No point going over the relationship between the Asian Tour & LIV again or the qualifying process etc etc 

 

You guys are either too lazy to do your research or ignore it 

 

Doesn’t bother me either way 

[tomjas]

2 minutes ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

You clearly are not speaking from a position of knowledge. 

So PGAT players are free to come & go as they please while playing as few tournaments as they like?

 

No?

 

Gee, that’s a shocker