Grumpy CC members complaining about Juniors.....

[tiger1873]

6 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

Though what you say, in many cases, regarding HOA's is true, it's not prevalent in the four states where I frequent private clubs.  NO, I haven't met BOD at “every” club in each state, but I've been to too many to count.  My experience is more accurate than most that opine, yet haven't done nearly the same. 

 

Contrary to your last comment, private clubs have different rules.  Again, kids and guests of members are NOT acknowledged as full/voting status members, so by charters, may be treated accordingly, or different from the member with status.  Equity Private club charters or benevolent dictator owners define how BOD govern, they intern define how Pro's manage and interact with members.

 

 

I am not disputing what you say.  A private club can do what they want as long as they can pay their bills.  Some clubs have had strict rules and it has been that way for years.   That type of club is not something people with families should join at all and to be honest not many have joined.

 

However before covid a lot clubs were starving and looking at bankruptcy.  So they turned to families which was good business.  However after covid they found out they could return to their old was because there was a demand again and therefore started to adopt rules and attitudes that families should not be welcome.

 

The best clubs around treat their members all the same.  That means everyone pays the same and gets the same benefits when they use the facility.  I also expect a club to treat my family and guest with the upmost respect.  Some clubs excel at this but far too many have no clue at how to treat people.

[kekoa]

Like someone said above, someone is always complaining about something at private CC's no matter what you do.   I was talking to the director of golf at a local CC and he was saying that members complain all the time about a tour player who practices there because they feel he isn't very personable.  This made me chuckle.    

[pingfool]

230-240 off the tee would have their hands full @ 6900yds. Drop back a tee under the circumstances. 

Next time nobody around play it back. 

[leezer99]

40 minutes ago, kekoa said:

Like someone said above, someone is always complaining about something at private CC's no matter what you do.   I was talking to the director of golf at a local CC and he was saying that members complain all the time about a tour player who practices there because they feel he isn't very personable.  This made me chuckle.    

They say that about me?! Weird. 

[daegyu]

5 hours ago, kekoa said:

Like someone said above, someone is always complaining about something at private CC's no matter what you do.   I was talking to the director of golf at a local CC and he was saying that members complain all the time about a tour player who practices there because they feel he isn't very personable.  This made me chuckle.    

John Daly plays his practice rounds at my club when he's in this part of the country. He basically gets to do whatever he wants and I'm sure nobody says jack to him. 

[kekoa]

5 hours ago, pingfool said:

230-240 off the tee would have their hands full @ 6900yds. Drop back a tee under the circumstances. 

Next time nobody around play it back. 

Yes he has fwys/hybrids into some par 4’s but has still broke par on a few occasions. To me the kid playing tips at his home course is no worse than a 20 handicap playing blues which happens on the daily.  I do get your point though.

[ezpz]

Having been a member at a private club since I was 12 and a volunteer for a good chunk of time too all I can say is the amount of dysfunctional behaviour people can exhibit and still be succesful in life has been one of the most dissapointing things I've realized while playing golf. I would rate OP's example as a fairly mild interaction, my biggest sympathy goes out to the administrative employees who actualy have to register all of the nonsensical complaints which are often worded in essay like correspondence rather than bulletpoints with no hope of any actionable ways forward but more of a frustration dump.

[heavy_hitter]

14 hours ago, kekoa said:

Like someone said above, someone is always complaining about something at private CC's no matter what you do.   I was talking to the director of golf at a local CC and he was saying that members complain all the time about a tour player who practices there because they feel he isn't very personable.  This made me chuckle.    

 

Had a discussion with the pro at our course.  He said managing the members is like managing High School social life.  Drama every day that is generally stirred up by the women.  Quote/Unquote "There is a reason men's only clubs still exist and will always exist."

[JDee1935]

45 minutes ago, heavy_hitter said:

There are literally kids with + handicaps that can play from 6900 yards with no issue only driving it 240.  It is honestly mind boggling to me men that think they understand junior golf and don't.  You are the exact person the OP is talking about.  You happily put your 5.2 handicap in your signature or whatever it is.  A 5.2 in the grand scheme of things, isn't a very good golfer, but you throw your 2 cents in the Junior Forums section when most of the kids here beat you by several strokes.  Even the ones only driving it 240 and beating you from the tips.

Junior 'rights' @ a private course, are so different at each course. Fact is, clubs cannot sustain over decades without families and juniors. That being said, no matter the playing ability, juniors really should find their own comfort zone to practice or play without interfering w/the adults. IE, not practicing during major warmup times for adult member guests, or, allowing single or 2 some to play through. Is really common sense, as every private course has many many 'owners', or those who think they own the course.

 

I find it hard to believe that any pro/asst pro would be negative towards juniors unless they were a distraction, but it happens. The Pano deal w/a pro, was years ago, and every course received notice on it. The 'pro' verbally and via social media went after some young girls. Not only did the pro lose his job immediately, but the President of the PGA held hearings, and that pro is banned for life at any PGA recognized course or practice facilty.

[Pepperturbo]

21 hours ago, tiger1873 said:

 

A lot clubs don't care about members unless your on the board or work at the club.  believe it's  very common in south Florida for clubs to let employees play before a paying member. If you complain good luck getting tee times.

 

A lot clubs are basically a Ponzi scheme where there looking for rotating members and getting initiation checks and then kick you out the door. The reason your treated so bad is they want you to leave so they can get another initiation check.

 

The sad truth is if take what they charge on initiation at most clubs and buy rounds at the most expensive resort and you will be treated better and pay less per round.

 

There is a reason why Tiger sold his house in Isleworth and moved to a house with his own practice facility.

FYI: My uncle, who played on the PGA Tour, is retired in FL.  He's older now, not playing much golf, so gave up his membership.  His memberships were not at the most expensive, like Isleworth, but nice clubs; his club match play experience says otherwise.  Most clubs go out of their way to accommodate members, even those owned by benevolent dictators; but it depends on ownership and how aggressively it's run.  Equity clubs can't operate that way. 

 

I have never heard of such actions by club management.  BOD at most private clubs subscribe to a private club monthly newsletter.  If what you say was true, most club management and BOD, including mine, would have heard about it.  Sorry, I don't believe what you say! 

[tiger1873]

2 hours ago, Pepperturbo said:

FYI: My uncle, who played on the PGA Tour, is retired in FL.  He's older now, not playing much golf, so gave up his membership.  His memberships were not at the most expensive, like Isleworth, but nice clubs; his club match play experience says otherwise.  Most clubs go out of their way to accommodate members, even those owned by benevolent dictators; but it depends on ownership and how aggressively it's run.  Equity clubs can't operate that way. 

 

I have never heard of such actions by club management.  BOD at most private clubs subscribe to a private club monthly newsletter.  If what you say was true, most club management and BOD, including mine, would have heard about it.  Sorry, I don't believe what you say! 

 

 

Well maybe your not familiar with how things work in south Florida.  In south Florida especially Palm Beach you have to buy a house to be a member. These clubs used to be optional for the homeowners but over the years they all ran into membership issues.  In the last few years they all merged with there HOA's and run both the HOA and Club. This allows them to charge assessments and force members to join.   

 

A equity club where you buy in is very different from these clubs. A lot those have strict rules and you pretty much  figure out if it worth it to you and most important you chose to join it. These are most likely the clubs you familiar with and probably not like what I am talking about.

 

In my case the club was losing members and instead of changing decided to convince he HOA in the neighborhood that it was cheaper to let the club take over and run the community.  People actually voted for this happen and a lot clubs followed suit in south Florida. 

So what happened the BOD of the club took over the HOA and started to use the HOA as way to bully members that  didn't fit with their view to leave. They basically upped the initiation to 100k (which is killing sellers values) .   The place is losing money because board members are doing contracts with the club and they need people to sell about 10% of the homes every year for the club  pay the mortgage from renovations they just did. That's why I say it's a Ponzi scheme and they actively run people off.

 

Hopefully when some legal issues get settled I can expand on it and truly it's bizarre how this place it. In the mean time I am enjoying the freedom that there is out there.

 

Edited January 24, 2023 by tiger1873

[daegyu]

5 hours ago, heavy_hitter said:

There are literally kids with + handicaps that can play from 6900 yards with no issue only driving it 240.  It is honestly mind boggling to me men that think they understand junior golf and don't.  You are the exact person the OP is talking about.  You happily put your 5.2 handicap in your signature or whatever it is.  A 5.2 in the grand scheme of things, isn't a very good golfer, but you throw your 2 cents in the Junior Forums section when most of the kids here beat you by several strokes.  Even the ones only driving it 240 and beating you from the tips.

 

In his defense, a 5 handi is around the 90th percentile of all golfers (rushing to erase handicap from profile)

[leezer99]

Just adding my own experience from a couple of weeks ago.

 

Son and two girls he plays with that are both in the top 250 of JGS with AJGA wins, etc. were about to tee off when the pro came out and pushed a husband and wife off in front of us. First of all, they were playing two different sets of tees and neither of them got their tee shots to the fairway. On top of that it was cart path only so they would drive 100 yards, get out and walk 50 yards to their ball, duff it and do it all over again. We literally waited on them on every shot. I went in after nine and gave the pro an earful about it because it turned our normal 1 1/2 hour nine holes into about 2 1/2 hours. They haven't done it since and I don't suspect that they will.

 

I have also been there when the kids are supposed to tee off and a single will wander up to the tee and try to get out before them.  I always ask if they'd like to join us or wait for an open tee time.

 

To me it's just blueblood entitlement.

[MahalNeneng]

22 hours ago, heavy_hitter said:

There are literally kids with + handicaps that can play from 6900 yards with no issue only driving it 240.  It is honestly mind boggling to me men that think they understand junior golf and don't.  You are the exact person the OP is talking about.  You happily put your 5.2 handicap in your signature or whatever it is.  A 5.2 in the grand scheme of things, isn't a very good golfer, but you throw your 2 cents in the Junior Forums section when most of the kids here beat you by several strokes.  Even the ones only driving it 240 and beating you from the tips.

I know a kid just like that 5’4 120 pd wet drives 250 and is a +2 in tournament play at 6900 awesome to see. Will he ever be more? Time will tell but that kid is giving Mr 5.2 quite a few per side. 

Edited January 25, 2023 by MahalNeneng

[SheriffBooth]

Let's take the temperature down a notch in here, OK?  I've cleaned up the thread, no need to attack one another over this topic.

[golfortennis]

2 hours ago, SheriffBooth said:

Let's take the temperature down a notch in here, OK?  I've cleaned up the thread, no need to attack one another over this topic.

 

There are certain words, that even when used in contexts nowhere near the cause for the "concern", that trigger an automatic moderation.  Perhaps the acronym the other poster used could be added to it?  I can't come up with any other meaning for GFY other than the stated intention.  I have to think that if I'm discussing the power suit in euchre or bridge and that gets a flag, this should really draw attention.

[MB19]

1 hour ago, golfortennis said:

 

There are certain words, that even when used in contexts nowhere near the cause for the "concern", that trigger an automatic moderation.  Perhaps the acronym the other poster used could be added to it?  I can't come up with any other meaning for GFY other than the stated intention.  I have to think that if I'm discussing the power suit in euchre or bridge and that gets a flag, this should really draw attention.

Glad I wasn't drinking anything while reading this, because if I had it been it would have ended up all over my screen and keyboard due to laughing as hard as I've had all week.

 

I need to get out more.

[MWhack]

quite shocking to read all this, I had just one incidence in Cyprus with a Russian guy who shouted at my daughter, nearly ripped his head off.
The last two years, since we live in Dubai, just one member got upset because my daughter would have played just 4-5 holes (because we had some lessons scheduled) but this was just an excuse to not play with her, he still was very respectful.
Other than that, people here are super happy to play with kids, and see them having fun, as long as they are course ready obv.
Its always so nice when people come, and look for 1-2 shots and then ask to play trough (if our playing partner are slow) or if they just stick behind us because the pace is perfect and watch kids.
We think about moving to the US, but stories like the ones shared here make me uncertain, I can let my 9y old even alone on the course and know she will return safe and happy, seems impossible in the US.

[leezer99]

19 minutes ago, MWhack said:

quite shocking to read all this, I had just one incidence in Cyprus with a Russian guy who shouted at my daughter, nearly ripped his head off.
The last two years, since we live in Dubai, just one member got upset because my daughter would have played just 4-5 holes (because we had some lessons scheduled) but this was just an excuse to not play with her, he still was very respectful.
Other than that, people here are super happy to play with kids, and see them having fun, as long as they are course ready obv.
Its always so nice when people come, and look for 1-2 shots and then ask to play trough (if our playing partner are slow) or if they just stick behind us because the pace is perfect and watch kids.
We think about moving to the US, but stories like the ones shared here make me uncertain, I can let my 9y old even alone on the course and know she will return safe and happy, seems impossible in the US.

 

We belong to a private club mostly for the ability to practice at a nice facility and to get a quick nine in after school. At our club we can cruise through nine in about 90 minutes while hitting multiple shots. That being said, I have found that the best playing partners are at city or muni courses. The public course players are there to have fun, enjoy the day and are happy to not be at work. The players at our club are a bunch of retired, entitled jerks.

[Scooby555]

This is very simple!!! If your club has too many a******* then change clubs.  If every club only has a******* well then we know who the a****** really is.

[leezer99]

34 minutes ago, Scooby555 said:

This is very simple!!! If your club has too many a******* then change clubs.  If every club only has a******* well then we know who the a****** really is.

Lighten up Francis.  

[kekoa]

15 hours ago, Scooby555 said:

This is very simple!!! If your club has too many a******* then change clubs.  If every club only has a******* well then we know who the a****** really is.

This is coming from someone who isn't a CC member right?  Asking for a fren. 

[bwbw]

We’ve been fortunate that most of our private club men have watched my daughters grow up playing on the course, in particular my oldest one (who has incredible work ethic when the weather is not so crap).  So much so that when she went through a major health issue last year that kept her off the course, many of them followed-up and checked on her.

 

I’m sure there will eventually be that one.

 

Now, she did have an instance the other day on one of the club’s sister courses (we belong to a club that has a management company with multiple course in our city and throughout the state).

 

She went over to the other course with her boyfriend to play 9.  This course is not a private course.  There was a guy in front who, in her words, was not very good.  He was on the green and her, used to playing ready golf, went out to the fairway to be in position to hit when he cleared the green.

 

They caught up to them on the next hole and the guy scolded her for walking out to her ball when he was in the fairway.  The guy’s wife (who was riding with him) later apologized.  The guy had a rough day and a few to many to drink.

 

She said that hole was her only double of the 9 holes. She shot +4 from the men’s tees.

[ChipDriver]

On 1/4/2023 at 1:39 PM, kekoa said:

A good buddy of mine was telling me about something that happened at his club last weekend.   So his son and a friend went out as a twosome on a busy weekend morning.  The tee sheet was stacked with other foursomes.  On the 4th hole, the juniors were waiting to tee off.  Note that my buddy's son plays the tips at this course and has done so for some time now.  He is 14, but looks like he's 12.   A member from the group behind comes up and starts grilling the kid about how far he hits driver.  The kid answers- I hit it 230-240.  The member states that the kid should not be playing from the tips as he needs to hit it at least 250 to do so.  Mind you, this kid's best score from the tips is -2 from 6,900 yards and he could rather easily spank 90% of the adult members at the club.   Does he hit fairway woods and hybrid into a lot of the par 4's?  Yes, but who cares?   Anyhow, does the member have any standing to complain about a good junior playing the tips if he isn't holding up play?  Come to find out, the member also went to the head pro to complain.  

Yes of course the member has the right to complain.  Everyone who is an actual member (who can vote) matters to a club. Their wives and children get the benefits of membership - but aren't actually members.  Younger members of the age you describe - have no status when it comes to playing.

 

But even if he complains - does he have the right to force the head pro to give the member what he wants?  No.

 

If the member complains - a good head pro ought to already know  who the younger player is, and whether he has the ability to keep up pace of play from whatever tees he is playing from.   IMO a good head pro will either agree with the member and provide a reasonable solution; or he will disagree with the member, and still provide a reasonable solution.

 

End of story.

 

But to give us your own opinion as to the player's ability - is a red herring, and a fool's game to try to debate.

 

I hope your friend was able to still play and that a reasonable solution was provided by the head pro.

[tiger1873]

7 hours ago, ChipDriver said:

Yes of course the member has the right to complain.  Everyone who is an actual member (who can vote) matters to a club. Their wives and children get the benefits of membership - but aren't actually members.  Younger members of the age you describe - have no status when it comes to playing.

 

But even if he complains - does he have the right to force the head pro to give the member what he wants?  No.

 

If the member complains - a good head pro ought to already know  who the younger player is, and whether he has the ability to keep up pace of play from whatever tees he is playing from.   IMO a good head pro will either agree with the member and provide a reasonable solution; or he will disagree with the member, and still provide a reasonable solution.

 

End of story.

 

But to give us your own opinion as to the player's ability - is a red herring, and a fool's game to try to debate.

 

I hope your friend was able to still play and that a reasonable solution was provided by the head pro.

 

 

Everyone joins a club for a reason.  Most people with kids who play join a club expecting that kid to play and not be bothered nd went out of our way to find a place like that.  If that kid is bothered while trying to play they have every right to complain on behalf of the paying member.  The reality is me as a paying member will be a lot more angry than my kids.

 

A lot these clubs sold to families.  In a lot cases it has been this way for years.  Since covid I seen a lot jerks who never played golf join and want to change the club to kick out families.  So the problem here not the kids playing but the jerk joined the wrong club.

 

The real problem is a lot clubs prefer 75 year old members because they don't know what good greens are and don't complain when the round takes 6-7 hours.  These clubs are all going to be begging for members in a few years.

 

[pingfool]

14 hours ago, ChipDriver said:

Yes of course the member has the right to complain.  Everyone who is an actual member (who can vote) matters to a club. Their wives and children get the benefits of membership - but aren't actually members.  Younger members of the age you describe - have no status when it comes to playing.

 

But even if he complains - does he have the right to force the head pro to give the member what he wants?  No.

 

If the member complains - a good head pro ought to already know  who the younger player is, and whether he has the ability to keep up pace of play from whatever tees he is playing from.   IMO a good head pro will either agree with the member and provide a reasonable solution; or he will disagree with the member, and still provide a reasonable solution.

 

End of story.

 

But to give us your own opinion as to the player's ability - is a red herring, and a fool's game to try to debate.

 

I hope your friend was able to still play and that a reasonable solution was provided by the head pro.

thank you.
Your right it is a fools game to bother debating the guy that decides to call out ghin#s as a way to justify twosome of juniors playing early on a weekend morning when the course is full of other members. 
ability aside. Pro knows it’s not a good look and if he decides to let it happen - or not - he is the best person to make a decision.

not a wrx forum. 

[klebs01]

I’m glad I don’t have this problem at my club. We keep it simple. No kids from 730 to 1030 on weekend mornings.  Works out well. I get a good round in in the morning and then head back out in the late afternoon with my boys. Course is empty and no one cares if the run around or talk loud. 

[heavy_hitter]

1 hour ago, klebs01 said:

I’m glad I don’t have this problem at my club. We keep it simple. No kids from 730 to 1030 on weekend mornings.  Works out well. I get a good round in in the morning and then head back out in the late afternoon with my boys. Course is empty and no one cares if the run around or talk loud. 

You are a nice player with a 0.3.  Why can't a 15 year old with a +2 play in the morning?

[klebs01]

22 minutes ago, heavy_hitter said:

You are a nice player with a 0.3.  Why can't a 15 year old with a +2 play in the morning?

They aren’t a member and it’s not their time to play. Guest are also limited during this those hours. This is the main time that is in high demand and when most of the money games are played. There are other times during the week that are set aside for juniors to play. As well as open play times every day. 

[Bizzle80]

my kid plays in the mornings with us sometimes and gets down with the gambling. She negotiates her own strokes -  usually based on where she tees. she talks s*** and usually goes home with cash. she's lucky dad pays off her losses. that's going to change though when she pulled out a giant wad of cash from her purse the other day.

 

club doesn't have rules against kids in the mornings, but rarely see any out there early.