Driver Prices-Have They Reached The Tipping Point

[Carolina Golfer 2]

As some know. I work at a course and do a lot of the fitting and all the equipment sales there. 
 

This year (going back to the fall) has been a big driver release year. Titliest having launched the TSR line and PING relaxing the G430 after 2 years and the buzz about the Paradym.   Add on Stealth2, Aerojet, Mizuno. Srixon all having new models. 
 

But we have seen a noticu decline in driver sales and interest so far.  He’s I know it’s early in the season.  But it’s a lot less than last year.   There is some talk about the Paradym and people are asking about the G430.  But no real buying internet. 
 

So this has be thinking that maybe OEM have finally reached a price threshold that consumers are saying, No Ghsnkd. Many of the drivers hitting $600 and even $750 plus for a premium shaft.  
 

I know there are many retail guys here and those of us ho’s who usually buy w due year, what do you all say?

[Goldenhawk]

Possibly.  I have seen a lot of prior generation drivers sell more than current models.  G425, TSi, Mavrik.  Used club market is hot, with lots of inventory turnover.

[bnperrone]

Covid demand crazinesss is subsiding. Look at 2019 numbers and I’d be willing to bet sales figures are in line with those.

 

Biggest Big Bertha was $600 when it was released. In 1997. According to online calculators that’s more than $1,100 in today’s dollars. 

[mantan]

29 minutes ago, bnperrone said:

Covid demand crazinesss is subsiding. Look at 2019 numbers and I’d be willing to bet sales figures are in line with those.

 

Biggest Big Bertha was $600 when it was released. In 1997. According to online calculators that’s more than $1,100 in today’s dollars. 

 

This makes sense. I don't know if the number/percentage of early adopters in long time golfing crowd has changed. But SO many players came back to the game after a long layoff in the covid boom that it had to boost golf sales at every level (early adopters buying new releasees, people buying outgoing models, used market, etc)

 

Once that wave of golfers is absorbed into the regular purchasing groups, it seems to reason there will be a drop.

 

 

[Phebus]

I think more so that they’ve reached a performance plateau and people can’t justify spending big money for small improvements. 

[Carolina Golfer 2]

52 minutes ago, bnperrone said:

Covid demand crazinesss is subsiding. Look at 2019 numbers and I’d be willing to bet sales figures are in line with those.

 

Biggest Big Bertha was $600 when it was released. In 1997. According to online calculators that’s more than $1,100 in today’s dollars. 

That could be.  Our 2022 numbers blew away any previous year. In both salss and rounds played.   During the season our tee sheet was packed 36 hole course.   
 

Its too early in the year to say on equipment.  But our doing leagues thst don’t start until April are almost sold out.  All of our summer camps 12 weeks 38 kids a day are sold out.   So I took the demand to play is still there.   
 

But yeah. Maybe all the new golfers and those returning to the game have purchased over the past two yesrs. 
 

I guess I’m contributing to the slowdown.  I’ll be down to just 3 drivers purchased this yesr from 5 and probably 3 sets of irons form 6 last year. 😬

[mantan]

3 minutes ago, Carolina Golfer 2 said:

That could be.  Our 2022 numbers blew away any previous year. In both salss and rounds played.   During the season our tee sheet was packed 36 hole course.   
 

Its too early in the year to say on equipment.  But our doing leagues thst don’t start until April are almost sold out.  All of our summer camps 12 weeks 38 kids a day are sold out.   So I took the demand to play is still there.   
 

But yeah. Maybe all the new golfers and those returning to the game have purchased over the past two yesrs. 
 

I guess I’m contributing to the slowdown.  I’ll be down to just 3 drivers purchased this yesr from 5 and probably 3 sets of irons form 6 last year. 😬

 

I was hoping demand would soften a bit this year, but it doesn't sound like it. My league is full. Another league I was considering joining isn't taking on any new players.  I did more league play/events last year just to get access to weekend morning tee times without waking up at the break of dawn to book online.

 

My youngest will be a senior in college this fall. If this carries into 24, I'm seriously considering joining a private club when he's off the payroll.

 

 

[cmatthews77]

I do wish drivers were less expensive but as others have stated with inflation they’ve somewhat maintained a reasonable price point. 
 

I think what has absolutely hit a threshold is the club marketing that the new one is “longer better, etc”. I think most golfers now understand that if you’re reasonably fit into your driver and it’s less than 10 years old there’s just really no distance improvement. Do they get marginally better in terms of forgiveness and faster ball speeds across the face? Sure. But you’re not going to see that year to year really. I guarantee the Cally Paradym can’t produce better numbers than my Epic Speed. 
 

Combine that with the fact that every manufacturer releases so many different models and do it every year (at least for Taylor Made and Callaway) people just aren’t going to “upgrade” every year anymore. Or even every other year. So you need new customers. And that Covid spike is probably peaked. 

[RaptorGolf]

I don't think its price, but more so macro economics related. Across the board, consumer spending has fallen and I think we're bottoming out of a recession. Golf industry is unique in that, consumers have more income than other industries, but even then, spending will go down and/or shifted to other things like "either new gear or play the same amount I did last year" type stuff.

 

Far as ball speed marketing stuff; for me, I think that went out the window many years ago. For me, if it can beat out my current gamer on forgiveness, feel, sound, or flat out hits it out the park on looks.

Edited February 19, 2023 by RaptorGolf

[Carolina Golfer 2]

19 minutes ago, mantan said:

 

I was hoping demand would soften a bit this year, but it doesn't sound like it. My league is full. Another league I was considering joining isn't taking on any new players.  I did more league play/events last year just to get access to weekend morning tee times without waking up at the break of dawn to book online.

 

My youngest will be a senior in college this fall. If this carries into 24, I'm seriously considering joining a private club when he's off the payroll.

 

 

So your (public) course gives weekend tee times priority to those thst play in its leagues?   That’s interesting.  We certainly don’t do that.   But we have a monthly pass plan that holders of that get 2 weeks booking vs 7 days.  
 

But yes. So far even with many workers returning to the office from telegolf 😂 we haven’t seen a significant decrease in rounds. 

2 minutes ago, RaptorGolf said:

I don't think its price, but more so macro economics related. Across the board, consumer spending has fallen and I think we're bottoming out of a recession. Golf industry is unique in that, consumers have more income than other industries, but even then, spending will go down and/or shifted to other things like "either new gear or play the same amount I did last year" type stuff.

I think all of this is pretty spot on.  

[RogerinNewZealand]

Have had 917 a year ago, got a 905r as a stopgap😊 and love it. Got my diamana 62S from a 913 ready for when i buy a ts2 head mid year.ts2/3 way less than in sep oct as tsr get sold.  Im only 93mph so gaining 2.3 yards for $400 isn't economical🤣 I just added a 70 gram regular to my VSteel 20 degree and have reshafted my Mizuno Mp fwy 16.5 so i dont need to spend much. Sticker Shock is hitting home.

[lefthack]

I think folks are broke, or at least average folks. I don't think $400+ on a new driver is at the top of a lot of folks lists.

 

I certainly didn't anticipate spending $400 on one, but you know.

[SE Gamer]

1 hour ago, Phebus said:

I think more so that they’ve reached a performance plateau and people can’t justify spending big money for small improvements. 

 

One might argue we've long reached a performance plateau. It's just taken a lot of folks longer to realize it. 

[Red4282]

1 hour ago, Phebus said:

I think more so that they’ve reached a performance plateau and people can’t justify spending big money for small improvements. 

I think you mean *no Improvement* but yes i agree… this is more a factor than the prices.

[So_Cal]

I like premium shafts so to buy a new driver would push $1000.  The other piece of this is the overall increase in cost of living.  Our gas bill went up 120% this year.  Throw in massive inflation this year for everything from taxes, insurance, food, gas, etc and we are struggling to make ends meet.  It’s tough out there

[Goldenhawk]

5 minutes ago, So_Cal said:

I like premium shafts so to buy a new driver would push $1000.  The other piece of this is the overall increase in cost of living.  Our gas bill went up 120% this year.  Throw in massive inflation this year for everything from taxes, insurance, food, gas, etc and we are struggling to make ends meet.  It’s tough out there

All of this is true.  Inflation is out of control and affects everyone I know.

 

I noticed that there has not been that many people at our driving range since the prices for the range ball buckets went up.  And the PGA 13U and 17U Junior Leagues are not filling up as fast as the last couple of years.

[tacticalpanda]

I will second that inflation has seriously curtailed my golf spending and caused me to look second hand for most of the gear I do buy.

[PlatinumNike]

3 hours ago, Goldenhawk said:

All of this is true.  Inflation is out of control and affects everyone I know.

 

I noticed that there has not been that many people at our driving range since the prices for the range ball buckets went up.  And the PGA 13U and 17U Junior Leagues are not filling up as fast as the last couple of years.

Went to the range and paid $30 for a large bucket

 

[Mickesgolf]

In Sweden the price of a stock Stealth + is 700 USD 😂

[elwhippy]

I think inflation is starting to hurt the more affluent. Higher prices on essentials like food, fuel and clothing means people are being cautious. Add in school or college fees, holidays and employers wrangling over pay deals and you have a bad time for retail. For some reason £500 is a ceiling in the UK. Titleist fans will pay over that but Callaway and TM are stretching and Ping drivers have always been seen as the better value option alongside Cobra. £499 discount for a 430LST, with the 425 on the same shelf at £379 or less is hard to justify for a better sound. 

[@_the_crook]

Everything golf went way up. Gone are the days of running into GG or GS to check out $99 bags. That's a retail shirt price now. 

Still, bet that this spring, many regular players will have some new gear to flash.

It's their nature. 

[PEI_Golfer]

7 hours ago, So_Cal said:

The other piece of this is the overall increase in cost of living.  Our gas bill went up 120% this year.  Throw in massive inflation this year for everything from taxes, insurance, food, gas, etc and we are struggling to make ends meet.  It’s tough out there

Very much this.  Heating oil in the past 15 months has risen 80-110% here, gas up 70% at one point (diesel is a joke).  Insurance will be going well up for people given a hurricane went through.  Didn't affect me at all, but magically I will be having to pay more to make sure those insurance companies make more money because they had to actually pay out finally...  Food is over 30% as well.  PEI has had the highest inflation numbers in Canada for like the last 23 months at over 11%.

[WristySwing]

7 hours ago, SE Gamer said:

 

One might argue we've long reached a performance plateau. It's just taken a lot of folks longer to realize it. 

 

I'd disagree with this.  I see it every day in the fitting bay, someone comes in with a newer driver (last 5-6 years) and most of the time I can beat it out by at least 15 yards. For example, last week I got someone 40 yards with a Stealth2 Plus over their previously fitted 917D2.  I saw about 15 yards with TSR4 and much straighter vs. my fitted SIM.  I just want to go back and retest it first before I order one.  My coworker is seeing 5mph ball speed increases on their Paradym TD vs. their fitted Rogue Max LS from last year.  

 

The reality is, there are some people who no matter what you give them they aren't going to see an improvement.  These are usually the guys who cannot hit the middle of the club to save their lives and think throwing some cash at a new head or new shaft is going to take them from a 20 handicap to a 5.  They just lack the skillset presently to benefit from anything.  I had a guy in twice over the span of several months.  First time his average driver spin was <1500 with a 5* shut face and 12* dynamic loft.  He messages me and says he's been working with his coach and they got it figured out.  We pop him back in the bay and he's now 6* face open, constantly off the heel, 20* dynamic loft, and averaging 4000+ spin.  I had to send him home again to figure it out, his coach took him WAY too far in the other direction.  

 

There is no constant when it comes to improvement.  I've seen players who have a brand new club they literally took the wrapper off of that they were fit for and I can still get them an additional 15-20 yards.  Happened yesterday, a guy bought a new G430 Max 3 wood that he was fit for at a competitor shop in my city.  He's hitting these spinney slices with it.  Grabbed it, clicked it one degree lower, boom, instant low spin cut that starts right and falls a shade left of the green every time.  Instant 20 yard pickup as well.  You just have to know what to look for in the numbers to deduce what is causing the issue to solve it and hopefully improve on what needs to be fixed.

Edited February 19, 2023 by WristySwing

[tannyhoban]

For a few years now I just stay a couple years behind. It’s only one model change. New or gently used.

[BirdieBob]

 

[doctor220]

On 2/19/2023 at 7:42 AM, WristySwing said:

 

I'd disagree with this.  I see it every day in the fitting bay, someone comes in with a newer driver (last 5-6 years) and most of the time I can beat it out by at least 15 yards. For example, last week I got someone 40 yards with a Stealth2 Plus over their previously fitted 917D2.  I saw about 15 yards with TSR4 and much straighter vs. my fitted SIM.  I just want to go back and retest it first before I order one.  My coworker is seeing 5mph ball speed increases on their Paradym TD vs. their fitted Rogue Max LS from last year.  

 

The reality is, there are some people who no matter what you give them they aren't going to see an improvement.  These are usually the guys who cannot hit the middle of the club to save their lives and think throwing some cash at a new head or new shaft is going to take them from a 20 handicap to a 5.  They just lack the skillset presently to benefit from anything.  I had a guy in twice over the span of several months.  First time his average driver spin was <1500 with a 5* shut face and 12* dynamic loft.  He messages me and says he's been working with his coach and they got it figured out.  We pop him back in the bay and he's now 6* face open, constantly off the heel, 20* dynamic loft, and averaging 4000+ spin.  I had to send him home again to figure it out, his coach took him WAY too far in the other direction.  

 

There is no constant when it comes to improvement.  I've seen players who have a brand new club they literally took the wrapper off of that they were fit for and I can still get them an additional 15-20 yards.  Happened yesterday, a guy bought a new G430 Max 3 wood that he was fit for at a competitor shop in my city.  He's hitting these spinney slices with it.  Grabbed it, clicked it one degree lower, boom, instant low spin cut that starts right and falls a shade left of the green every time.  Instant 20 yard pickup as well.  You just have to know what to look for in the numbers to deduce what is causing the issue to solve it and hopefully improve on what needs to be fixed.

Those sound like poor fits or poor strikes. No one is getting 5 mph more from a new head unless the prior head is defective or they aren’t hitting it off the center. 

[WristySwing]

17 minutes ago, doctor220 said:

Those sound like poor fits or poor strikes. No one is getting 5 mph more from a new head unless the prior head is defective or they aren’t hitting it off the center. 

 

I'd be happy to hear how many fits you've done in your life time to back this up considering you weren't there when it happened,.  I've been in the industry for 20 years, been trained on Foresight products, and have been personally invited down to Callaway in one of the first Master Fitter training programs to be taught by their tour van staff.  I've done thousands of fits, work in a well regarded fitting studio in my area that is booked out for months in advance at any given time, and have been fitting for the better part of half of my life.  I can safely say that 5mph can happen from one head to the next.  I am not completely disregarding strike point, as that is the most important thing, but in the case of my coworker, they are a 2 index that hits the middle of the club very often.  I would be very skeptical that he was all over the face with his old driver and suddenly found the middle with the new one.

[I'_rather_be_golfing]

On 2/19/2023 at 1:27 AM, PlatinumNike said:

Went to the range and paid $30 for a large bucket

 

And you still handed over payment? Inflation must not be an issue for you then.

[Thayneil]

On 2/19/2023 at 4:42 PM, Mickesgolf said:

In Sweden the price of a stock Stealth + is 700 USD 😂

 

get to live in Sweden though!

[I'_rather_be_golfing]

On 2/19/2023 at 5:42 AM, WristySwing said:

 

I'd disagree with this.  I see it every day in the fitting bay, someone comes in with a newer driver (last 5-6 years) and most of the time I can beat it out by at least 15 yards. For example, last week I got someone 40 yards with a Stealth2 Plus over their previously fitted 917D2.  I saw about 15 yards with TSR4 and much straighter vs. my fitted SIM.  I just want to go back and retest it first before I order one.  My coworker is seeing 5mph ball speed increases on their Paradym TD vs. their fitted Rogue Max LS from last year.  

 

The reality is, there are some people who no matter what you give them they aren't going to see an improvement.  These are usually the guys who cannot hit the middle of the club to save their lives and think throwing some cash at a new head or new shaft is going to take them from a 20 handicap to a 5.  They just lack the skillset presently to benefit from anything.  I had a guy in twice over the span of several months.  First time his average driver spin was <1500 with a 5* shut face and 12* dynamic loft.  He messages me and says he's been working with his coach and they got it figured out.  We pop him back in the bay and he's now 6* face open, constantly off the heel, 20* dynamic loft, and averaging 4000+ spin.  I had to send him home again to figure it out, his coach took him WAY too far in the other direction.  

 

There is no constant when it comes to improvement.  I've seen players who have a brand new club they literally took the wrapper off of that they were fit for and I can still get them an additional 15-20 yards.  Happened yesterday, a guy bought a new G430 Max 3 wood that he was fit for at a competitor shop in my city.  He's hitting these spinney slices with it.  Grabbed it, clicked it one degree lower, boom, instant low spin cut that starts right and falls a shade left of the green every time.  Instant 20 yard pickup as well.  You just have to know what to look for in the numbers to deduce what is causing the issue to solve it and hopefully improve on what needs to be fixed.

Those numbers don't mean anything indoors in a nice box hitting into a screen that can be manipulated. Now take it outside. Bet it is a different story. Cause I can tell you of all my friends that dropped some big money for a fitting and new driver and shaft. They still end up around where I'm at with my old and trusty 917d3.