Women and Girls

[bobfoster]

I know few are on WRX (but it is a pretty harsh, arrogant place for women - I get why few post here). But for those men here that do play with their wives/GFs/lovers (or whatever combination of those three you choose)? 

 

But guys, late Sunday night, and was just thinking about this. Tell me why you like playing with women. Why we need to go out of our way to make golf more inviting to women. (And to any women reading this - tell us how we can do so).

[Ferguson]

Bob,

I offer this chart.

 

 

 

Partners: 

Green: Married

Light Blue: "lovers?"

Dark Blue, dotted: GF 

 

 

y = # of rounds played with said partner 

x = # of of problems experienced 

 

 

 

 

[Hawkeye77]

My daughters are now women, have always enjoyed playing with them. My wife and I have played for 30+ years. 
 

Other than a couples type league, just haven’t played with that many since HS. We had a couple from France on holiday catch up to us on a course and got paired with a husband-wife from SF on another when we were in Scotland a few years ago —— the wives were just like any other player from a golf point of view and mine was glad to have a little different conversation.  Always happy to have someone and their spouse join us if we are out at home, but usually just the two of us. 
 

So, not that many opportunities given I play with the same guys most of the time. 

 

To paraphrase Harvey Penick, if you don’t play golf like a jackass you are my friend. 
 

 

[MtlJeff]

I think we overthink it. Sure there isn't necessarily a ton of adult women who play golf---But how many adult women play in Basketball or flag football leagues though? My guess is far less

 

Golf probably does OK proportionally to other sports at female participation once you hit adult ages (youth sports certainly sports like soccer or hockey/field hockey etc i'm sure crush it)

 

Playing with a girlfriend or wife , the best thing a guy can do is be patient and tailor the game to the skill level of the woman. It's not fun for anyone if it takes 17 swings to get to the green. For a true beginner maybe teeing off 100yds out every hole makes sense. Also get most of your advice in earlier on the range, or during range sessions preparing. Again, not fun to get feedback after every swing during a fun round, unless she's asking. 

 

If the woman is already a golfer, just treat her like a normal person. I don't think it's super complicated

[david.c.w]

23 minutes ago, MtlJeff said:

Playing with a girlfriend or wife , the best thing a guy can do is be patient and tailor the game to the skill level of the woman. It's not fun for anyone if it takes 17 swings to get to the green. For a true beginner maybe teeing off 100yds out every hole makes sense. Also get most of your advice in earlier on the range, or during range sessions preparing. Again, not fun to get feedback after every swing during a fun round, unless she's asking. 

 

Most of us like to play with people within a few strokes of our index.  I am a 5.  My wife is a 105.  I enjoy playing with her once in a while, but she does not want to play as much or as long as I do.  I also do not want to play all the time with a guy who shoots 120, so gender or relationship really does not matter.  

 

After a few failed attempts at 18 holes golf with the wife is best played like this:

• Buddy and I start as a twosome
• Wives join us for the back 9
• We play a couples scramble the rest of the way in

This way my wife gets to hit every shot, but we can pick up her tee and approach shots, and she has a reasonable chance of being relevant around the green with a chip or a putt.

 

Honestly the hardest part is trying to impress upon the wives that they need to be ready to join us on 10 at least an hour and 45 minues after we tee off on 1.  They honestly believe that "Can't you just wait for us" will work and not impact the rest of the course.  They are not golfers, and dont want to be, even after us trying to get them more involved. 

[Roody]

I've been married for almost 24 years now. For the first 18-19 years my wife dabbled very lightly in golf - maybe playing 3-5 times a season. Then we joined a private club in 2018. Now she plays on average of 75-80 times a season. We try to play together at least once on the weekends, but she has her gals' group, I have a couple of boys' groups I play with for the other days.

Why do I like playing with her? Because she's my best friend. And now when we plan vacations, the first question is "how much golf can we get in, and are the courses worth going for?"

[GHIN n Juice]

I played a local am tournament a few years back.  I was playing off a 6 and was in the 1st flight playing the blue tees, one up from the tips.  I was paired with a local D1 college golfer who was female.  She played from the tips with all the other scratch men.  It was awesome to watch!  She outdrove me (not that most couldn’t) but I was spotting her 15-25 yards on some tee shots.  Her irons, pinpoint, wedges automatic and anything inside 12 feet was a gimme.  Those 5 hours are why ANYONE should be encouraged to play.
 

Players are players period.  I can’t imagine robbing that young woman of her gift because she’s a girl.

[SUPERG]

Played with a couple women who come to tournaments my company hosts (they are usually brought by our vendors) and can say they are great! They are aware of the speed needed to play and of the rules, and have a great time chopping it up with the boys. These women I can say have A. Never played golf in school or at a high level and B. are just like many men in terms of playing a few times a season but can hold their own. I have however played with buddies GF, wives who are super immature and just take 400 selfies in the cart and drink themselves silly and slow the game down, this is however not the norm. I always try and get my wife to play but she was a swimmer and has bad hand-eye coordination LOL. 

[MtlJeff]

55 minutes ago, david.c.w said:

 

Most of us like to play with people within a few strokes of our index.  I am a 5.  My wife is a 105.  I enjoy playing with her once in a while, but she does not want to play as much or as long as I do.  I also do not want to play all the time with a guy who shoots 120, so gender or relationship really does not matter.  

 

After a few failed attempts at 18 holes golf with the wife is best played like this:

• Buddy and I start as a twosome
• Wives join us for the back 9
• We play a couples scramble the rest of the way in

This way my wife gets to hit every shot, but we can pick up her tee and approach shots, and she has a reasonable chance of being relevant around the green with a chip or a putt.

 

Honestly the hardest part is trying to impress upon the wives that they need to be ready to join us on 10 at least an hour and 45 minues after we tee off on 1.  They honestly believe that "Can't you just wait for us" will work and not impact the rest of the course.  They are not golfers, and dont want to be, even after us trying to get them more involved. 

 

True but i guess if you've never played golf before i could see not thinking about the other people on the course, in a lot of individual sports the other people there aren't really affected by what you do....like bowling or whatever

 

So just a heads up on that usually works. I mean if you tell a woman about respect for the course and the other people on it and she doesn't care, than i mean...We have no problem calling a man a jerk for behavior like that. Women can be jerks too (trust me, look at literally any of my exes or any woman who has spurned an advance from me frankly--jerks all of them)

 

When i played with my wife in the Bahamas we practiced a few times beforehand, and then when we got there we only played the back 9 (she didn't want to golf for 4 hours), and she teed off from 100 yds out on every hole. She ended up having a lot of fun. She actually needed to loosen up a bit at first, because we played with another couple we had met there who were golfers--She was so worried about getting in people's way or slowing us down that every one had to kind of tell her to chill and not worry. By the 2nd round she was a lot more comfortable

 

[Jayjay_theweim_guy]

53 minutes ago, Roody said:

Why do I like playing with her? Because she's my best friend. And now when we plan vacations, the first question is "how much golf can we get in, and are the courses worth going for?"

We need a, "Dawwwww!", emoji for posts like that.  Something like a face with stars or hearts in its eyes.

 

Seriously, that's fantastic that you both can share that interest.  My wife does not play, has no interest in doing so, and gives me a raised eyebrow at 1-2 hour practice sessions.  Nevermind a 4 hour round.  So it goes.

[dropkicked]

I am grouped with women at least 30-40% of the time I tee it up alone. Most of the time the ladies outplay their husbands/BF's..(Then I hear every excuse in the book😅)

In speaking with all of them, I get the sense that most hacks don't appreciate being paired up with women..... but I find it quite enjoyable.

[uitar9]

My wife and I took up golf late in life, 12 years ago. She now plays in two ladies leagues  during the week and once with me on the weekend. We vacation with her brother/partner and we usually golf three times a week with them.

 

We both play munis. All kinds of lady/girl golfers. 

 

I don't understand the "old boys club" mentality. Not a lot of tolerance. I've played two years of mens night. Way too much testosterone. I'll never go back. 

 

Its just a freaking game. 

 

[I'_rather_be_golfing]

I love playing with my wife a lot. She keeps me level headed and focused. And its nice not playing to the point where I'm playing drunk by hole 6. And if I hit a bad couple shots. Hey have another one type of vibe.

[MelloYello]

It's not a lack of hospitality that's the problem. 

 

Women are less interested in modifying the concept of a hike among nature to make it more competitive, more structured, more laced with convoluted rules and more emotionally devastating when things go awry to the point of actual rage/fury being released. 

 

It says a lot about men that we somehow find joy in the chaos of that stuff. 

 

I think most women would say, "I get the walking and the outdoors...but why the golf part?"

[Cliffy2020]

I’m going to go out on a limb here that while searching for suggestions of “why men need to go out of their way to make golf more inviting to women. (And to any women reading this - tell us how we can do so)” that handing them a Tampax on the first hole after spotting them 80yds off the tee and outdriving them by 50yds isn’t going to make the cut???  Just a guess.

[Roody]

2 hours ago, Jayjay_theweim_guy said:

We need a, "Dawwwww!", emoji for posts like that.  Something like a face with stars or hearts in its eyes.

 

Seriously, that's fantastic that you both can share that interest.  My wife does not play, has no interest in doing so, and gives me a raised eyebrow at 1-2 hour practice sessions.  Nevermind a 4 hour round.  So it goes.

I got lucky, in more ways than one. But speaking to the golf specifically, I got lucky that she got the spark. 

Just before we joined our private club, I started the conversations with her to grease the wheels. I went into it with the idea that I'd be the one using the membership 99% of the time, thus I would pay for all of it. Based on past experience, I didn't expect her to use it all that much. 

 

We joined, and before I knew it she was:

• signed up for the Tuesday ladies league
• elected to the women's board as their treasurer
• joined the ladies inter-club league
• asking for tips on where to get fitted for new clubs
• constantly online to buy women's golf apparel
• signing me up for couples tournaments with her
• dropped her handicap from 36 to 23 in a couple of years. 
• she pays her half of the yearly dues, and any food and beverage charges she incurs. 

 

[ChipNRun]

14 hours ago, bobfoster said:

ell me why you like playing with women. Why we need to go out of our way to make golf more inviting to women.

 

Why not?

 

But, there's realities to face. When I play with my wife, I'm not as dialed in to scoring, master strategy for day, etc. It's 60% social event and (maybe) 40% a sporting event. Often it's in a mixed scramble, so pressure for individual performance is less.

 

How does it affect personal (golf) scoring? Probably a wash. I'm more relaxed, so I don't miss as many shots. But, I'll probably hit fewer fairways due to diminished focus on pure golf.

[Petethreeput]

My wife will tell you she’s been a golfer for 25 years bc that’s when I bought her golf shoes.

 

About 8 yrs ago we played in the divorce open, a chapman tournament.  She had never played 18 holes let alone 9.  The biggest eye opener was a lot of people aren’t very good and she felt a lot more comfortable.  And, of course, she didn’t have to play her shots.  She met other women who were good, average, and beginners like her.

 

Then we started playing in couples league and the games were never play your own ball.

 

Two years ago she decided she wanted to be better.  We play each week, she’s still a 40 which frustrates her, but she doesn’t pick up nearly as much so she is much better.

 

Each Saturday we play with another couple and play 18, and it is great fun.

 

The best way (I believe) to get wives who didn’t play when they were younger is to get them playing with other women who are in the same boat.

 

And I do enjoy playing with her.  We laugh a lot, have met some great people, and it’s something we can do together into our old age.

[Pepperturbo]

Making golf more inviting is meant for all sorts of people, not just women.  Think of it this way, every married golfer guy has a woman that could play, but most likely doesn't play, that's a huge untapped market. 

 

I met my wife on the first tee of a tournament, she played to a 12 or 14, and I played to a 2.  Some of my male & female relatives play golf, my teenage niece plays regional tournament level golf, will play college level; my wife's sorority gal pals play, which are mid-high index, and a few single digits, but what gets my attention, all of them play by the rules. 

 

I do NOT have a preference to play with women, just works out that way sometimes because buddies have wives that play.  I'd play with any woman beginner before some of the Neanderthals that attempt the game, most of which are oblivious to the field behind them; they give POP golf a bad name, but that's another subject.

 

Edited February 20, 2023 by Pepperturbo

[dugue4]

I would like if my wife wanted to play golf more.  She will play with me about once a year.  I have learned though not to try to give her any sort of advice at all.  If we're paired up with a random, she will gladly take advice from them...

[betarhoalphadelta]

Q. Why do we want to introduce the game to women?

A. The same reason we introduce the game to anyone. It's a beautiful, exhilarating, maddening, frustrating, hell of a good time! It gets you out in nature and sunshine for some exercise. It's accessible to pretty much anyone and you can be as good or as bad as you're willing to put in the time and work to be. There are a few things better than a nice day out on the course, so we naturally want to share that with people, including the women in our lives. 

 

Q. Why do we particularly want to introduce the game to the women that happen to be our significant others?

A. Because we're obsessed and if they catch the bug just like we did, THINK OF HOW MUCH MORE OFTEN WE COULD PLAY GOLF!! Most of us have to balance work, life, family, etc. with golf. If family time and golf can be combined, that's more golf for us!

 

 

[smashdn]

I can make a sailor blush.  I would rather not filter my conversation during my un-winding time.  I certainly don't need my wife around to keep track of my gambling, drinking, swearing, smoking and whizzing into bushes.

[caeye0710]

On 2/19/2023 at 11:09 PM, bobfoster said:

I know few are on WRX (but it is a pretty harsh, arrogant place for women - I get why few post here). But for those men here that do play with their wives/GFs/lovers (or whatever combination of those three you choose)? 

 

But guys, late Sunday night, and was just thinking about this. Tell me why you like playing with women. Why we need to go out of our way to make golf more inviting to women. (And to any women reading this - tell us how we can do so).

At the risk of sounding mysoginistic, I've been a member at about half a dozen clubs over the years and I spent over a decade on the green grass side of the industry. Each club had it's own version of a Ladies' Assocation/League. Most of these groups were primarily senior-aged women. 

 

I have only seen ONE of those groups (Kingsmill) that provided a solid, encouraging, drama free environment for new women joining the group, whether they were experienced golfers or new to the game. 

 

My wife was (probably still is) a HELL of a stick. High ranked amateur in her state growing up and could've played at a pretty big school of her choice. Got burnt out and didn't touch a club from 2007 until I met her in 2014. 

 

We joined a private club mainly because I played about 4 days a week at the time, and the ladies (who seemed upbeat and encouraging at the time) begged her to join the LGA. He was hesitant but ended up doing it. 

 

At first, she refused to play in the club championship because scores in the high-80's/low-90's had won ever year. She ended up playing and won the 2-day tournament by 20 shots.

 

The next month, there was an "emergency" board meeting for the LGA and she was removed from her seat as Secretary as "not being a culture fit". I was told by another member that he heard griping in the bar from the senior members about how "her winning every tournament wouldn't be fair". 

 

She didn't care (or at least said she didn't). I fumed for a while and made my voice heard. 

 

We played 9 holes together after that and she hasn't touched a club since 2018. Perfectly happy being a mom. 

 

Long story short: I'm not sure there's much we as men can do other than encourage women to play, but from my experience: Women who golf need to make it more inviting for women who are looking to learn. 

 

I'm sure there are places out there where this can be done, but I just haven't seen it. 

[SollyinGA]

I’ve never had that experience go well nor have I seen it go well.

 

When my wife does decide to play with me, we just play a scramble so that we don’t add any pressure of people staring down the back of our necks. I always let her go first so we take some of her putts. There are always a couple of shots from her that we take such as her 75 yard topped drive verses my duck hook . We only play 9, but by the time we get done with 6 holes, she’s done.

Edited February 22, 2023 by SollyinGA

[MelloYello]

2 hours ago, caeye0710 said:

At the risk of sounding mysoginistic, I've been a member at about half a dozen clubs over the years and I spent over a decade on the green grass side of the industry. Each club had it's own version of a Ladies' Assocation/League. Most of these groups were primarily senior-aged women. 

 

I have only seen ONE of those groups (Kingsmill) that provided a solid, encouraging, drama free environment for new women joining the group, whether they were experienced golfers or new to the game. 

 

My wife was (probably still is) a HELL of a stick. High ranked amateur in her state growing up and could've played at a pretty big school of her choice. Got burnt out and didn't touch a club from 2007 until I met her in 2014. 

 

We joined a private club mainly because I played about 4 days a week at the time, and the ladies (who seemed upbeat and encouraging at the time) begged her to join the LGA. He was hesitant but ended up doing it. 

 

At first, she refused to play in the club championship because scores in the high-80's/low-90's had won ever year. She ended up playing and won the 2-day tournament by 20 shots.

 

The next month, there was an "emergency" board meeting for the LGA and she was removed from her seat as Secretary as "not being a culture fit". I was told by another member that he heard griping in the bar from the senior members about how "her winning every tournament wouldn't be fair". 

 

She didn't care (or at least said she didn't). I fumed for a while and made my voice heard. 

 

We played 9 holes together after that and she hasn't touched a club since 2018. Perfectly happy being a mom. 

 

Long story short: I'm not sure there's much we as men can do other than encourage women to play, but from my experience: Women who golf need to make it more inviting for women who are looking to learn. 

 

I'm sure there are places out there where this can be done, but I just haven't seen it. 

 

Same exact situation at my club. 

 

If there were low- and mid-handicap women who wanted to join they'd be welcomed with open arms by the men. It's finding a place for them among the women that's the problem. 

 

Our particular stand-out female plays with her friends and occasionally with the men (and we love when she does!). 

Edited February 22, 2023 by MelloYello

[jordan2240]

As some others have said, I don't think there is any need to specifically introduce women to golf any more than there is to introduce anyone to golf.  I'd treat all who have an interest the same.  I couldn't care less how many shots you hit as long as you can keep a decent pace, or at least be willing to pick up after a certain amount of strokes.  I used to pride myself in being able to hit 110 shots in the same amount of time others can hit 80 (but I've gotten better).

 

My wife has no interest in playing, but if she did, I'd enjoy going out with her because I enjoy her company, and I think golf is an activity that lends itself to some nice interaction if you have the right attitude.  That said, I'd also need some time with the guy pals so I can rag on her as needed.  That's way better than paying to sit inside in a therapist's office.

[IndyArcher]

Been married for over 25 years now. Wife has never picked up a club, hates watching golf and has never even walked or ridden a course with me. My daughter just finished college and has zero interest in golf. She loves to hike and explore with me and has walked with me a few times for exercise, but just doesn't engage with the golf culture at all. If I tried to get either of them to golf it would do the opposite of bringing us together. I don't quilt and sew and my wife doesn't golf. We have a very happy marriage pursuing our own interests. Over the last number of years I've had 12+ regular golfing buddies. Not one of them had a wife that played. I think it's fantastic that many ladies do golf, but in reality, it's a vast minority who are driven to make it a priority to put in all the work and practice it takes to become somewhat proficient in the sport. I organized kids and adult sports leagues for a large church for several years. We had lots of girls who played in youth leagues. When it came time for adult leagues, we had interest from guys that probably measured 20:1. Why? I'm not sure I know. I think that raising kids just takes over as a priority for many of them. Just think in terms of bowling, softball, golf, hockey, cycling, etc...I'm guessing that the # of guys participating vs gals is lopsided in all of them. There are amazing women who excel in ALL of those, and I don't know any guy that desires to keep ladies out of sports; I think in sheer #'s, that's just largely the way it falls as we move through life. 

[Pepperturbo]

21 hours ago, smashdn said:

I can make a sailor blush.  I would rather not filter my conversation during my un-winding time.  I certainly don't need my wife around to keep track of my gambling, drinking, swearing, smoking and whizzing into bushes.

I've heard that line many times.  With women today, it's no longer an excuse, nor is filtering.  My buddy's wife has a sailor's mouth, gambles, drinks and swears, even smokes cigars.  She's a sexy hot mess that hits the ball well.  By design, they can't whiz in the bush, but my wife and her wish they could.  We play with a few LPGA gals now-an-again, it's like playing with men expect easier on the eyes.

[MtlJeff]

3 hours ago, MelloYello said:

 

Same exact situation at my club. 

 

If there were low- and mid-handicap women who wanted to join they'd be welcomed with open arms by the men. It's finding a place for them among the women that's the problem. 

 

Our particular stand-out female plays with her friends and occasionally with the men (and we love when she does!). 

 

I have seen this also, where very talented women have been , umm encouraged not to play because they were too good. Of course this happens all the time with men and juniors also....I've seen multiple men's boards put rules in place to prevent juniors from playing in CC, and gosh darn if every time i see this it doesn't coincide with there being an awesome junior at the club

 

There's a lot of silly politics at clubs, men and women, sadly....

 

I do think overall many women don't think men want to play with them, even good women golfers. Even if they are wrong , it's a commonly held belief i think

 

The 2nd best women's player in our club joined our group many times this year. She flat out told me she never put her name in earlier on because she thought we wouldn't want to play with her, which shocked me. We always got along very well to be honest. But she still thought my group wouldn't want her to join us. When we told her we loved playing with her, she joined us every couple of weeks after that

[Hawkeye77]

26 minutes ago, MtlJeff said:

 

I have seen this also, where very talented women have been , umm encouraged not to play because they were too good. Of course this happens all the time with men and juniors also....I've seen multiple men's boards put rules in place to prevent juniors from playing in CC, and gosh darn if every time i see this it doesn't coincide with there being an awesome junior at the club

 

There's a lot of silly politics at clubs, men and women, sadly....

 

I do think overall many women don't think men want to play with them, even good women golfers. Even if they are wrong , it's a commonly held belief i think

 

The 2nd best women's player in our club joined our group many times this year. She flat out told me she never put her name in earlier on because she thought we wouldn't want to play with her, which shocked me. We always got along very well to be honest. But she still thought my group wouldn't want her to join us. When we told her we loved playing with her, she joined us every couple of weeks after that

My best friend in HS wanted to play in the country club's men's championship (where he was the likely favorite) between his junior and senior year in HS.  His Dad was told that "he" was the member (of course the whole family had privileges) and his son couldn't enter.  We are not talking about some rich guy or spoiled rich kid and neither had attitudes, salt of the earth, but it pissed off his Dad so he bought his son a membership, lol, and I enjoyed hanging around the parking lot and watching him play/come up the 18th in his victory.