Rory Mcilroy has become a bad pressure player (There, we've said it)

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  • ctsgolfctsgolf Members Posts: 182 ✭✭✭
    Rory has won $2.3 Million in 2019 with 5 top-10 finishes and the season isn't even halfway over...



    I just do not understand the criticism.
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  • QuigleyDUQuigleyDU Members Posts: 7,435 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    ctsgolf wrote:


    Rory has won $2.3 Million in 2019 with 5 top-10 finishes and the season isn't even halfway over...



    I just do not understand the criticism.




    started in the final group 9 times this season, zero wins. That is the criticism. I think everyone agrees he has top shelf talent. the question is, does he have top shelf motivation, or top shelf nerves?
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  • BiggErnBiggErn Members Posts: 2,535 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
  • lumberman2462lumberman2462 Members Posts: 5,340 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    BiggErn wrote:


    Golf is hard




    Yes it is....
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  • lumberman2462lumberman2462 Members Posts: 5,340 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    This is just my humble opinion on Spieth and Rory....



    Spieth - he's not making those miles of putts anymore. I can remember some people on this forum pointing out that it just wasn't sustainable. Turns out it wasn't. It seemed he made more 25-40 foot putts during his run than anyone since Tiger in his prime.



    Rory - It looks to be wedge proximity and putting to me. But I haven't done a statistical study.
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  • agolf1agolf1 Members Posts: 1,495 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    hazebronso wrote:


    I firmly believe that Jordan Spieth's ascent to the top of the golfing world in 2015 is as much a factor as any in Rorys relatively weak play.

    Rory was tagged the new improved golfing prodigy following the Tiger era and he was going to lead this generation. But nobody saw a younger American prodigy in Jordan Spieth coming. Those majors Spieth won took something out of Rory on a mental level. I watched it happen.

    I actually believe Jordan is going through something similar. In sport nothing shatters the confidence quicker than being in the presence of somebody better than you. Jordans never feared Dustin, Rory, or Koepka. But somebody's return to golf might have shaken more than the TV ratings. Just saying




    Very good point.



    I've had this theory. That maybe there is only so much " winning spirit " in the world. Maybe it's passed around. And maybe Jordan shared one with this returning player. Maybe both cannot use it at once ?


    The Speith passing Rory seems to line up a bit better than Tiger passing Spieth. Unless the claim is simply Spieth no longer had the spotlight (although I'm not sure it was solely his even at the start of 2018).



    Is it each of them has 9 figures in the bank and decided to relax a bit? Or, being labeled the next "10 major guy" is tough when the linear extrapolation breaks down? Or, despite being very very very good, each of them also happened to get a bit lucky and have results early in their careers that exceeded their normal or natural trend line? Who knows.
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  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day... south carolinaMembers Posts: 27,583 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Mar 11, 2019 12:07pm #128


    This is just my humble opinion on Spieth and Rory....



    Spieth - he's not making those miles of putts anymore. I can remember some people on this forum pointing out that it just wasn't sustainable. Turns out it wasn't. It seemed he made more 25-40 foot putts during his run than anyone since Tiger in his prime.



    Rory - It looks to be wedge proximity and putting to me. But I haven't done a statistical study.




    The problem with that theory is that his driving and iron play is actually what has let him down. He played well still with a cold putter until he started hitting it all over.



    Remember. The “ hot putter “ was making birdies. Why ? Because he was driving and hitting greens. Now he’s not. And that makes putter look worse than it is. Becusae niw all those putts are pressure packed par putts. If he gets his ball striking straight he will putt just fine.
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  • mankumanku Members Posts: 781 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Money changes everything...at least for many people.



    Perhaps Rory and JS were showered with so much money (each has banked over 100mm, no? mostly off course) that it could easily have affected their mindset.



    Not everyone is Michael Jordan or Tiger Woods...
  • lumberman2462lumberman2462 Members Posts: 5,340 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭



    This is just my humble opinion on Spieth and Rory....



    Spieth - he's not making those miles of putts anymore. I can remember some people on this forum pointing out that it just wasn't sustainable. Turns out it wasn't. It seemed he made more 25-40 foot putts during his run than anyone since Tiger in his prime.



    Rory - It looks to be wedge proximity and putting to me. But I haven't done a statistical study.




    The problem with that theory is that his driving and iron play is actually what has let him down. He played well still with a cold putter until he started hitting it all over.



    Remember. The " hot putter " was making birdies. Why ? Because he was driving and hitting greens. Now he's not. And that makes putter look worse than it is. Becusae niw all those putts are pressure packed par putts. If he gets his ball striking straight he will putt just fine.




    Hard to argue with that. Another theory is that a balky putter will carry over into ball striking because you are trying to hit it closer and taking more risk.



    I've seen it both ways.
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  • Pent08Pent08 Members Posts: 1,196 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    These guys are hyper-competitive athletes who reached the pinnacle of their sport. Their competitive nature, within the ropes, does not diminish past some income threshold. Unless someone can provide data on how much Rory practiced pre-wealthy vs now, then please stop using the argument that wealth diminishes drive.
  • MMB1500MMB1500 Members Posts: 6,395 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Mar 11, 2019 1:39pm #132
    ctsgolf wrote:


    Rory has won $2.3 Million in 2019 with 5 top-10 finishes and the season isn't even halfway over...



    I just do not understand the criticism.




    If McIlroy's goal was to make as much money as possible without ever winning another tournament then you'd have a point. He's certainly doing well at that. But your comment presupposes that money is the only thing that matters.



    The reality is that McIlroy's career will be 99% defined by how many times, and which tournaments he wins, not by how many additional millions he has in his bank account.



    McIlroy knows this. Everyone knows this. His inability to close out tournaments from positions of strength is fast becoming a crisis. That's the point.
  • MMB1500MMB1500 Members Posts: 6,395 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    agolf1 wrote:

    MattyO1984 wrote:


    The problem is that he doesn't like people being critical of him.


    Not true. I'm fine if people are critical of what I write and of Rory. I'm not even a Rory fan. I just think it's funny everyone knows what the 6th best golfer in the world needs to be doing differently.




    Again, this is a platform specifically designed for people to express their opinions on golf. That includes the current inability of McIlroy to close out tournaments. What is it about that you're struggling with?



    Nobody knows for sure what would help McIlroy and nor has anyone claimed to, or that they are "geniuses". However it's perfectly reasonable to offer some views based on what we observe as golf fans. You seem to be suggesting opinions should be limited to only those above him in the world rankings?
  • MMB1500MMB1500 Members Posts: 6,395 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Mar 11, 2019 1:53pm #134
    Pent08 wrote:


    These guys are hyper-competitive athletes who reached the pinnacle of their sport. Their competitive nature, within the ropes, does not diminish past some income threshold. Unless someone can provide data on how much Rory practiced pre-wealthy vs now, then please stop using the argument that wealth diminishes drive.




    I agree with this. In my view this is not a drive or motivation issue. It's almost entirely mental. He cares way too much about the outcome and can't get out of his own way.



    Remember the young, carefree Rory that tore up Kiawah and won the PGA by 8 shots? The Holywood kid who swaggered around the course unwaveringly confident in his own abilities? Where is that Rory now?
  • CasualLieCasualLie Do Woodchucks Chuck Wood? Members Posts: 1,431 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    I wonder if sometimes being a long hitter is a curse for Rory. Especially on par 5s. 260 yards in, even with iron in hand how accurate can you be? So you miss the green (understandable) and end up in a bad spot (going to happen a lot)...is that better than laying up to a wedge distance you know you can get within 10 feet, and closer to 5 feet?



    Had he hit better long irons on the front 9 yesterday, then the confidence would have carried him through the back 9 and probably a win. But for whatever reason it just wasn't there. It looked like those long irons into par 5s were just too much to handle. And the wedge game just a hair off. It's a very fine line on those greens between pitching to 3 feet vs 8, and I don't ever expect Rory to make a lot of 8 footers under pressure. He has before, but that was a long time ago.
  • bscinstnctbscinstnct Members Posts: 27,167 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Pent08 wrote:


    These guys are hyper-competitive athletes who reached the pinnacle of their sport. Their competitive nature, within the ropes, does not diminish past some income threshold. Unless someone can provide data on how much Rory practiced pre-wealthy vs now, then please stop using the argument that wealth diminishes drive.




    It's fair to speculate that the all out obsession to win, the all consuming desire to prove one is the best, diminishes once a level of success is attained. And, with wealth, distractions abound.
  • TreyWingbatTreyWingbat Members Posts: 472 ✭✭✭✭
    He needs to start working at Burger King with Jordan Spieth... putting doesn't matter there, only making Whoppers right does.
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  • asugrad1988asugrad1988 asugrad1988 Members Posts: 23 ✭✭
    bscinstnct wrote:


    https://www.golfdige...ane-ryan-voices



    "Tell me if this sounds familiar: Heading into the final round of the Sentry Tournament of Champions on Sunday, Rory McIlroy stood in second place, just three shots off the lead. He proceeded to shoot 72, which was the worst score of any player in the top 20 (of a 33-man field). Instead of winning, he slipped down the leader board, finishing in a disappointing tie for fourth.

    Blur the specifics a little, and you could be talking about any number of recent events. The one that stands out, of course, is the 2018 Masters, when he shot a painful Sunday 74 in the final group to cede the tournament to Patrick Reed. But the list goes on: the Tour Championship, in which he stumbled in Tiger Woods’ shadow, again in the final group, to post a dismal 74; the BMW PGA Championship, where he shot an unimpressive 70 in the final group to finish second despite starting the day as co-leader; the WGC-Bridgestone Invitational, playing (repeat after me) in the final group, and once more blundering his way around the course to fall to sixth and hand Justin Thomas a relatively stress-free victory.

    Those are the most egregious examples, but they aren’t the only ones—there are plenty of other tournaments, from the Open Championship to the Dubai Desert Classic to the Dell Technologies Championship, where a good-to-great performance would have put him near victory, and where he could only muster the pedestrian. One of his best Sundays of the year came at the BMW Championship in September … unfortunately, that was because rain canceled play for the day. When the final round resumed on Monday, he stumbled in the last group, failing to erase a slim one-shot deficit as victory eluded him again. By my count, Rory has played in seven final pairings (or threesomes) in the past year, and he hasn’t captured even one of those titles."

    .....................................................

    "Or, since we live in the age of the conspiracy theory, is he cursed by his ex-fiancée, Caroline Wozniacki, who—long considered a choker herself—won the Australian Open in January 2018 to break a career-long grand slam drought at roughly the exact moment that Rory’s really ugly stretch began?"









    In August of 2017 at the Open Championship at Royal Birkdale Mcilroy fired his caddie JP Fitzgerald.

    Fitzgerald's replacement was Harry Diamond, Rory's best friend who had no professional caddie experience at all. Fitzgerald on the other hand, had caddied for Darren Clarke, Paul Mcginley and Ernie Els.

    Since Diamond took over, Mcilroy was in the last group in these 7 tournaments:

    2018 Masters

    2018 WGC

    2018 BMW

    2018 Tour Championship

    2019 Sentry Tournament of Champions

    2019 WGC

    2019 Arnold Palmer Invitational

    and he was unable to close the deal.



    I'm wondering if Mcilroy would have had a caddie with tour experience, a caddie who knew how to handle the pressure being in contention on Sunday, he might have won at least one of those six tournaments.

    I'm wondering if Mcilroy is thinking about that too.
    bscinstnct wrote:


    https://www.golfdige...ane-ryan-voices



    "Tell me if this sounds familiar: Heading into the final round of the Sentry Tournament of Champions on Sunday, Rory McIlroy stood in second place, just three shots off the lead. He proceeded to shoot 72, which was the worst score of any player in the top 20 (of a 33-man field). Instead of winning, he slipped down the leader board, finishing in a disappointing tie for fourth.

    Blur the specifics a little, and you could be talking about any number of recent events. The one that stands out, of course, is the 2018 Masters, when he shot a painful Sunday 74 in the final group to cede the tournament to Patrick Reed. But the list goes on: the Tour Championship, in which he stumbled in Tiger Woods’ shadow, again in the final group, to post a dismal 74; the BMW PGA Championship, where he shot an unimpressive 70 in the final group to finish second despite starting the day as co-leader; the WGC-Bridgestone Invitational, playing (repeat after me) in the final group, and once more blundering his way around the course to fall to sixth and hand Justin Thomas a relatively stress-free victory.

    Those are the most egregious examples, but they aren’t the only ones—there are plenty of other tournaments, from the Open Championship to the Dubai Desert Classic to the Dell Technologies Championship, where a good-to-great performance would have put him near victory, and where he could only muster the pedestrian. One of his best Sundays of the year came at the BMW Championship in September … unfortunately, that was because rain canceled play for the day. When the final round resumed on Monday, he stumbled in the last group, failing to erase a slim one-shot deficit as victory eluded him again. By my count, Rory has played in seven final pairings (or threesomes) in the past year, and he hasn’t captured even one of those titles."

    .....................................................

    "Or, since we live in the age of the conspiracy theory, is he cursed by his ex-fiancée, Caroline Wozniacki, who—long considered a choker herself—won the Australian Open in January 2018 to break a career-long grand slam drought at roughly the exact moment that Rory’s really ugly stretch began?"











    In August of 2017 at the Open Championship at Royal Birkdale Mcilroy fired his caddie JP Fitzgerald.

    Fitzgerald's replacement was Harry Diamond, Rory's best friend who had no professional caddie experience at all. Fitzgerald on the other hand, had caddied for Darren Clarke, Paul Mcginley and Ernie Els.

    Since Diamond took over, Mcilroy was in the last group in these 7 tournaments:

    2018 Masters

    2018 WGC

    2018 BMW

    2018 Tour Championship

    2019 Sentry Tournament of Champions

    2019 WGC

    2019 Arnold Palmer Invitational



    and he was unable to close the deal.



    I'm wondering if Mcilroy would have had a caddie with tour experience, a caddie who knew how to handle the pressure being in contention on Sunday, he might have won at least one of those six tournaments.

    I'm wondering if Mcilroy is thinking about that too.















    It's OK to tell people how good you are, but when your're really good, they'll tell you.
  • bscinstnctbscinstnct Members Posts: 27,167 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭


    He needs to start working at Burger King with Jordan Spieth... putting doesn't matter there, only making Whoppers right does.




    Rory be like



    giphy.gif
  • Texas1Texas1 Members Posts: 356 ✭✭✭✭
    My boy was getting a putting lesson from someone who has worked on tour



    My boy kept lookingnwherenthe ball was going as he hit the putt. After about the 10th time of stating this the coach then puts his palm 2inches from his face. “Next time you look then slap”. He only did it one more time after that. 😂



    Rory needs someone like that walking round with him on certain decisions he makes. Do this and it’s a slap 😂
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  • MMB1500MMB1500 Members Posts: 6,395 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    CasualLie wrote:


    I wonder if sometimes being a long hitter is a curse for Rory. Especially on par 5s. 260 yards in, even with iron in hand how accurate can you be? So you miss the green (understandable) and end up in a bad spot (going to happen a lot)...is that better than laying up to a wedge distance you know you can get within 10 feet, and closer to 5 feet?



    Had he hit better long irons on the front 9 yesterday, then the confidence would have carried him through the back 9 and probably a win. But for whatever reason it just wasn't there. It looked like those long irons into par 5s were just too much to handle. And the wedge game just a hair off. It's a very fine line on those greens between pitching to 3 feet vs 8, and I don't ever expect Rory to make a lot of 8 footers under pressure. He has before, but that was a long time ago.




    Interesting comments. There could be some truth to this.
  • Pent08Pent08 Members Posts: 1,196 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    bscinstnct wrote:

    Pent08 wrote:


    These guys are hyper-competitive athletes who reached the pinnacle of their sport. Their competitive nature, within the ropes, does not diminish past some income threshold. Unless someone can provide data on how much Rory practiced pre-wealthy vs now, then please stop using the argument that wealth diminishes drive.




    It's fair to speculate that the all out obsession to win, the all consuming desire to prove one is the best, diminishes once a level of success is attained. And, with wealth, distractions abound.




    Sure, but Rory has been in a position to win just how many tournaments over the last few years? Does the obsession diminish only after 54 holes? And I completely agree about distractions, but that's a different argument than saying an athlete is content with mediocrity.
  • QuigleyDUQuigleyDU Members Posts: 7,435 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Mar 11, 2019 5:20pm #143
    Pent08 wrote:

    bscinstnct wrote:

    Pent08 wrote:


    These guys are hyper-competitive athletes who reached the pinnacle of their sport. Their competitive nature, within the ropes, does not diminish past some income threshold. Unless someone can provide data on how much Rory practiced pre-wealthy vs now, then please stop using the argument that wealth diminishes drive.




    It's fair to speculate that the all out obsession to win, the all consuming desire to prove one is the best, diminishes once a level of success is attained. And, with wealth, distractions abound.




    Sure, but Rory has been in a position to win just how many tournaments over the last few years? Does the obsession diminish only after 54 holes? And I completely agree about distractions, but that's a different argument than saying an athlete is content with mediocrity.




    i have zero questions regarding his desire to win. I just have questions regarding his ability to do so. I just dont understand how often he is in position to come away empty handed every time.



    I get "golf is hard", I feel there has to be some kind of mental block to performing on sunday..
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  • PingfitzPingfitz Members Posts: 759 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Maybe time to go back to his old caddie "FItz" can' hurt!
  • JonnyKrasnodarJonnyKrasnodar Members Posts: 1,854 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    It's entirely mental. He defends and he ends up in bad spots, he plays aggressive and he ends up in bad spots. It's all over his face. "Why me?"



  • Texas1Texas1 Members Posts: 356 ✭✭✭✭
    edited Mar 11, 2019 6:20pm #146
    When you are deep down in the s***, top players need someone just to have a quiet word at the right time whilst out on the course. I believe a top level caddie would help.



    Now you could argue against this with what’s going on with spieth, but that’s the first thing I’d like to see him do.



    Guarantee if he had a top level caddie it might make a couple shots difference when all around seems lost



    However not being an elite player, wtf do I know



    * just reread the above - guarantee = hypothetical
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  • agolf1agolf1 Members Posts: 1,495 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    MMB1500 wrote:


    Again, this is a platform specifically designed for people to express their opinions on golf. That includes the current inability of McIlroy to close out tournaments. What is it about that you're struggling with?



    Nobody knows for sure what would help McIlroy and nor has anyone claimed to, or that they are "geniuses". However it's perfectly reasonable to offer some views based on what we observe as golf fans. You seem to be suggesting opinions should be limited to only those above him in the world rankings?


    Some people think money changes athletes, others don't. People can write whatever they want. I can do the same. You are the one that seems to be struggling with something.



    Many people around here think there opinion is very very smart. Just look at all the times people need to explicitly respond to people or come out and say "I told you so" after the fact or blast someone when the post isn't right the next day/round (but is generally true). But very rarely do you see people come out of their hole when they are wrong.



    Anyone can voice their opinion. My comment about 6th in the world relates to the perceived expertness discussed above (maybe you don't agree with that), and that many people could probably do things better in their own profession vs. having the answer for Rory. Rory's skill and results are much much harder to replace than most peoples' skill/results/role in any particular job. But yeah, Rory sucks at golf, and if he'd just listen to everyone here then he'd be great again.
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  • ObeeObee ClubWRX Posts: 3,802 ClubWRX
    agolf1 wrote:

    MMB1500 wrote:


    Again, this is a platform specifically designed for people to express their opinions on golf. That includes the current inability of McIlroy to close out tournaments. What is it about that you're struggling with?



    Nobody knows for sure what would help McIlroy and nor has anyone claimed to, or that they are "geniuses". However it's perfectly reasonable to offer some views based on what we observe as golf fans. You seem to be suggesting opinions should be limited to only those above him in the world rankings?


    Some people think money changes athletes, others don't. People can write whatever they want. I can do the same. You are the one that seems to be struggling with something.



    Many people around here think there opinion is very very smart. Just look at all the times people need to explicitly respond to people or come out and say "I told you so" after the fact or blast someone when the post isn't right the next day/round (but is generally true). But very rarely do you see people come out of their hole when they are wrong.



    Anyone can voice their opinion. My comment about 6th in the world relates to the perceived expertness discussed above (maybe you don't agree with that), and that many people could probably do things better in their own profession vs. having the answer for Rory. Rory's skill and results are much much harder to replace than most peoples' skill/results/role in any particular job. But yeah, Rory sucks at golf, and if he'd just listen to everyone here then he'd be great again.




    What do YOU like to talk about on this golf board? And remember, this is the "Tour Talk" section of that golf board....
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  • agolf1agolf1 Members Posts: 1,495 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Obee wrote:

    agolf1 wrote:

    MMB1500 wrote:


    Again, this is a platform specifically designed for people to express their opinions on golf. That includes the current inability of McIlroy to close out tournaments. What is it about that you're struggling with?



    Nobody knows for sure what would help McIlroy and nor has anyone claimed to, or that they are "geniuses". However it's perfectly reasonable to offer some views based on what we observe as golf fans. You seem to be suggesting opinions should be limited to only those above him in the world rankings?


    Some people think money changes athletes, others don't. People can write whatever they want. I can do the same. You are the one that seems to be struggling with something.



    Many people around here think there opinion is very very smart. Just look at all the times people need to explicitly respond to people or come out and say "I told you so" after the fact or blast someone when the post isn't right the next day/round (but is generally true). But very rarely do you see people come out of their hole when they are wrong.



    Anyone can voice their opinion. My comment about 6th in the world relates to the perceived expertness discussed above (maybe you don't agree with that), and that many people could probably do things better in their own profession vs. having the answer for Rory. Rory's skill and results are much much harder to replace than most peoples' skill/results/role in any particular job. But yeah, Rory sucks at golf, and if he'd just listen to everyone here then he'd be great again.




    What do YOU like to talk about on this golf board? And remember, this is the "Tour Talk" section of that golf board....


    Various useless things like who I hope wins this weekend, is this tournament setup good, etc.



    I just think the tone towards Rory (Spieth, etc) is quite condescending at times. They are on the verge of being called dumb, lazy, and crappy at what they do, and everyone has the fix for them. Yet, most people can't perform their job at the level these guys do.



    I wonder if people here bash the co-worker they've known for 10 years when they decide to slowdown a bit. Or tell their neighbors' kids they suck when the shots don't go in.



    Of course, everyone here is the greatest ever at what they do, and their opinion on unrelated subjects is always right...
    Titleist 915 D4 10.5*, Diamana S+ Blue 60 S-Flex
    Titleist 915F 16.5* & 21.0*, Diamana S+ Blue 70 S-Flex
    Ping G25 5-PW (25*-44*), UW (49*), SW (54*), CFS R-Flex
    Ping Zing 2 L/S (57*)
    Ping Cadence TR Ketsch Putter
    Backup Lob Wedges:  Ping Eye 2+ (58*) or Ping Eye 2 XG (60*)
  • oz dee ceeoz dee cee Members Posts: 505 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Does anyone actually know if his caddy is the problem? We all think he’s just some random bud that Rory is helping out cause he hasn’t got a job or something. I’m not sure he is the cause or root of the problem. And although this place is all about opinion, I haven’t seen or read anything that indicates the caddy is a numpty or doesn’t know what he’s doing.



    Also, Rory has had plenty of times through his short career where questions were asked of his finishing ability at top tournaments. That was with different caddies. Not a new phenomenon for him.



    It’s in his head for sure. The fact that he’s been in the last group in those 9 stated tournaments shows the passion and want is there. Otherwise he wouldn’t be in that position. What is lacking is that unknown ‘thing’ that makes closers, closers.



    Psychologists may help a little and other aspects of life have to line up to be in the right zone, but ultimately, it’s up to Rory McIlroy, no one else, to find ‘it’. Gee I hope he finds it soon.
  • OBbogey5OBbogey5 Falconer Members Posts: 1,023 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    I think it was Nike giving him $200mil. After that, bye-bye,,,, Rory McIlroy

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