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TM Hi-toe = Extremely Unforgiving, but also...

 manima1 ·  
manima1manima1 Chicago 735Members Posts: 735
Joined:  in Equipment #1

So it’s only been a couple months since the Hi-Toe went in the bag, but this club has me completely perplexed.

On one hand, this is thing is like cheating from the bunker. I’ve never left a shot in the bunker or thinned one since it’s gone in the bag. That is truly amazing, since I’m NOT a great bunker play by any stretch. It’s almost automatic in the bunker – even from a variety of sand conditions – firm, soft, wet… it handles them all with ease. Additionally, the flop/rescue shot ability can’t be stressed enough- I executed a 25y flop with a bush 2’ in front of the ball and was truly sold on the value of the higher toe for that type of shot right there.

On the other hand, this thing is seems to be extremely inconsistent on short pitches and chips. If you don’t strike it perfectly you are punished severely. All shots come out with PLENTY of spin, but trajectory and distance control are awful. Short shots that used to be routine with my SM5 60.08M, are now a challenge. I’m finding myself grabbing the 54.10S in spots where the 60 would work better, just because it’s simply more reliable.

However, the value of the bunker and rescue shots is undeniable. There are some rounds where I can never see a bunker and others where I’m living there, so I do need a reliable club from there. Just not sure if that value outweighs the downsides of the club elsewhere.

Anyone else find anything similar? With time, has anyone “learned” how to use this club on typical short chips/pitches and developed some consistency? Or is this club just unforgiving on those shots by design?

Posted:
M5 9.0 - Kuro Kage Dual Core 80tx 
'16 M2HL 16.8 tour issued deep faced - Fujikura 8.3 TS
zU45 18 degree - S400
z745 4-9 - S400
SM6 46.08F - S400 Chrome
SM6 50.08F - S400 Steel Gray
SM7 54.10S - S400 Raw
TM Hi-Toe 60.12ATV - S400 Black
TM Spider X - Navy
1

Comments

  • Z1ggy16Z1ggy16  8202Members Posts: 8,202
    Joined:  #2

    I mean... I've become a better chipper from simply just grabbing less loft, period. Make a shorter BS and accelerate as normal.... The only time this becomes a problem is in late summer or early fall when the greens really start to dry out and the roll a little more.

    I've gamed a Hi Toe since... meh idk maybe the summer? So like 3-4 months or so. I find that it was pretty good from more firmer bunkers but when the sand was very fine and fluffy... I'd have to open it up and make it a dinner plate to stop it from digging. I don't love playing really open faced bunker shots, I'm more of a low spin and let it roll guy, so I had to adjust a bit. I haven't taken measurements or anything but I find the sole to have a lot less camber than something like a Glide.

    I'm not sure if it's more or less forgiving, but I'm sure the CG being moved up and toward the toe has something to do with it a bit.

    Posted:
    D - Epic SZ | HZRDUS Smoke Black
    4w - '16 Tour Issue M1 | Diamana B Series
    UNDECIDED
    Irons - MP-20 SEL 4-PW | Modus 120
    GW - T20 50/7 | Modus 120
    SW - T20 54/8 | Modus 120
    LW - T20 58/12 | Modus Wedge 125
    P - Bettinardi 360-M
    Ball - Bridgestone BXS


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  • RogerinNewZealandRogerinNewZealand Maungakeikei Auckland New Zealand 2635Members Posts: 2,635
    Joined:  #3

    I dont chipnrun with wedges but need dedicated stupid proof get outa bunker wedges...and i sold the Vokey K everyone said ya got to have. Didnt work for me!!!!!!
    sm6 58S works and old 2006? SM 54 is still a winner on longer bunker shots. With bunkers if all else fails
    I just go Back To Ping!
    isi and i3 wedges
    When i was a Ping Man
    Bunkers were Fun!
    So if you canake bunkers fun you have the right wedges!

    Posted:
    2019 15 November
     Ping G5 10.5 zcom 65
    Vacancy.......
    V Steel 5 PLPlatinum
    Titleist 904f 22 YS6
    Ping G 7 wood soon!
    Mizuno MP 63 DGR300 at D4

    Old SM at 54 and SM6 58S 10
    Scotty ProPlatinum
    DarkTanTitleistCap
    Bidding on SpaldingBg.

  • jjljjl  1343Members Posts: 1,343
    Joined:  #4

    Had a 50, 56 and 60 degree Hi-Toe in the bag, only the 60 remains. I use it almost exclusively for short green side bunker shots where it's been very good. I could never get the 50 degree dialed in on full swings (wanted to go left on me for some reason, the lie seemed off? no idea) and i found i was blading a lot of chips w the 56 (4-way sole) and getting inconsistent responses on chips that weren't thinned, so the SM6 went back in.

    Posted:
    Ping G410 Plus 10.5
    Ping G410 Hybrid 19* 22*
    TaylorMade P790 4i
    TaylorMade SLDR 5i - AW
    Titleist SM6 Jet Black 56*
    TaylorMade MG Hi-Toe 60*
    TaylorMade Spider X 34"
    Bridgestone Tour B RX
    Titleist Players 4 
  • ChipNRunChipNRun  1793Members Posts: 1,793
    Joined:  #5

    My 60* LW is a Callaway MD/PM with the U-grind, and a high-toe type profile. For selecting my SW, I went back and forth between the MD/PM and the MD3, which won out. Basically, the two ties for sand shots, but the 54* MD3 gave me more consistent touch for pitch shots.

    The 60* LW is great for certain shots, especially shots off fluffy turf or downhill lies, or quick-stoppers. The 60*, however, doesn't work as well off of shaggy, uneven lies. The 54* MD3 gives more consistent loft and distance from the junk.

    Posted:
    What's In The Bag *...

    Driver: Calla XR16 Pro 10.5° (set open) / Fuji Evolution II TS Speeder 665 R-flex 63 gr.
    FWs: Tour Edge XRail 4W + 7W / GraphiteDesign G60 R-flex 60 gr.
    or Calla Alpha 815, set 16° + 20° / Fuji Motore Speeder 665 R-flex 62 gr.
    Hybrid: Cobra FlyZ 3H 19° + 4H 22° / Matrix VLCT Altus Lite flex 73 gr.
    Irons: Tour Edge CB Pro Tungsten 4i - PW** / KBS Tour 90 R-flex 101 gr.
           4i refitted with SteelFiber 780 HLS Hybrid shaft R Flex 75 gr.
    Wedge: Calla MD3 48°/8.SS + 54°/12.WS + MD.PM 60°/10  | KBS Tour R-flex 110 gr. |
    Putter: Ping Sigma G Tyne (face-balanced) / 34" w. Ping Pistol PP60 grip (stock)
    Bag: Sun Mountain Three 5 stand bag
    Ball: Calla SuperHot - orange
    * Either 7W or 3H left out, depending on course and season.
    ** Wedges: 46°and 48°are competing for bag space.
  • Jamesng2003Jamesng2003  36Members Posts: 36
    Joined:  #6

    Good info on the High Toe and PM MD. Thanks.

    Posted:
  • TrueWRXTrueWRX  1702Members Posts: 1,702
    Joined:  #7

    I think the Hi Toe has a high CG which is not typical for wedges. So maybe thats what is off for you?

    Posted:
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  • bevans0222bevans0222  80Members Posts: 80
    Joined:  #8

    I found mine to be great out of the bunkers as well. After a lot of practice, I got used to my chips coming off the face with a lower trajectory. My chipping actually improved, as I got used to it.

    Posted:
    Titleist TS3 10.5*(C4) - VA Composites Raijin 64 four ● Callaway Epic 3w 15* - VA Composites Raijin 74 four ● Callaway Epic 3h 20*(set at 22*) - VA Composites Raijin 84 four ● Callaway X-Forged UT 18* - PX 6.0 ● Srixon 785 (5-P) - Nippon Modus 3 120S ● Cleveland RTX4 50/54* - DG S400 ● TM Hi-Toe 58* - KBS HiRev 115 ● Callaway PM Grind 64* - KBS HiRev 115 ● Cameron Fastback
  • aenematedaenemated Los Angeles, CA 384Members Posts: 384
    Joined:  #9

    Personally, I ditched any and all attempts at chipping/pitching with higher lofted wedges and unless there's some case where I REALLY need to loft it up (and I'll just grab my 56° and lay it open); I stick with my 52° for pretty much all of that.

    My short game has improved a lot by just simplifying my approach in such a way.

    Posted:

    Titleist TS4 9.5°
    Titleist TS2 15°, 19°
    Nike Vapor Pro 3-PW
    Miura 52° TG, 56° KG
    Scotty Cameron Phantom X 8
    Bridgestone Tour B XS

  • miles2gomiles2go  338Members Posts: 338
    Joined:  #10

    @aenemated said:
    Personally, I ditched any and all attempts at chipping/pitching with higher lofted wedges and unless there's some case where I REALLY need to loft it up (and I'll just grab my 56° and lay it open); I stick with my 52° for pretty much all of that.

    Too funny. I ditched any and all attempts at chipping/pitching with anything other than a 60* wedge. I decided to practice and play exclusively with the 60* for everything 60 yards and closer, including every type of green side bunker shot. Not sure of the wisdom of it but it takes the uncertainty out of a lot of club choices. I think it’s got 6* of bounce.

    Posted:
  • kekoakekoa  9209ClubWRX Posts: 9,209
    Joined:  #11

    I'm also a huge fan of the HT out of bunkers. At one point I had the 52/56/60. Now I only keep the 60 in the bag for bunkers and went back to my Scratch wedges for everything else.

    Posted:
  • scooterhd2scooterhd2  477Members Posts: 477
    Joined:  #12

    same idea really, just with a different club. I use my 54 degree on 95% of shots from grass inside 95 yards. Have a 58 hi toe that is beautiful from the bunkers, and an occasional shot over an obstacle to a short pin. Otherwise the hi toe is basically a high lofted sandwedge for me.

    Posted:
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  • aenematedaenemated Los Angeles, CA 384Members Posts: 384
    Joined:  #13

    @miles2go said:

    @aenemated said:
    Personally, I ditched any and all attempts at chipping/pitching with higher lofted wedges and unless there's some case where I REALLY need to loft it up (and I'll just grab my 56° and lay it open); I stick with my 52° for pretty much all of that.

    Too funny. I ditched any and all attempts at chipping/pitching with anything other than a 60* wedge. I decided to practice and play exclusively with the 60* for everything 60 yards and closer, including every type of green side bunker shot. Not sure of the wisdom of it but it takes the uncertainty out of a lot of club choices. I think it’s got 6* of bounce.

    I think that's probably the key - taking ONE and making it your go-to and putting in the time to learn how to use it.

    When I had as many as 4 wedges, I'd spend so much time just trying to decide which one to hit and how that when I'd finally get to actually hitting the ball, I was so lost in the nonsense that I wasn't even thinking about executing the shot anymore.

    Posted:

    Titleist TS4 9.5°
    Titleist TS2 15°, 19°
    Nike Vapor Pro 3-PW
    Miura 52° TG, 56° KG
    Scotty Cameron Phantom X 8
    Bridgestone Tour B XS

  • KgglonghornKgglonghorn  99ClubWRX Posts: 99
    Joined:  #14

    have you tried reshafting them? I ripped those lame hi rev shafts out and put in some nice Nippon Wedge shafts and it made all the difference in the world. I went from looking to replace them to now I darn near sleep with them.

    Posted:
  • puttingmattputtingmatt puttingmatt Summer/ Michigan-- Winter/ Florida 5280Members Posts: 5,280
    Joined:  #15

    I find the HiTop 52* and 58* to be very playable and forgiving, but all
    Clubs have limitations,
    As my Father has said, " the clubs won't swing themselves "

    Posted:


    Play Golf.....Play Blades......Play Something Else.....Just Go Play.....

    4 HC
  • rgk5rgk5 rgk5(OLB)  3692Members Posts: 3,692
    Joined:  #16

    I had a PM 60* and the Hi Toe 58*. For short pitches both were good. On full shots, they always wanted to go left. Gone.

    Posted:
    Cobra F9 Tour 10.5*, VA Composites Raijin 44 F2
    Cobra F8 3-4 wood 13.5*, VA Composites Raijin 44 F3

    Cobra F8 5-6 wood 17.5, Tensei Blue R
    Ping i25 5-PW, TFC R, 1.5* Up
    Ping Glide 1.0 54.5*, CFS Wedge flex

    Ping Eye2+ SW, 57.5*, KTM S
    Taylor Made TP Mullen 2, 35", LH (I'm right handed :p )
  • Franks113Franks113  336Members Posts: 336
    Joined:  #17

    I gamed a set of Hi Toes 50,54,60 for the entire season after playing Vokeys for many years and have a few thoughts on them. First off the 60 has been by far the best. I used to have a issue of having the ball rolling up the face of a 60 degree wedge shot anytime I tried to push it farther than 60 yards or so. The hi toe 60 lower the ball flight and I was able to pinch the golf ball much better on shots of 70 to 80 yards. With the vokeys if I had a 75 yard shot I would just grab the 54. The 54 and 50 Hi toes have been ok. Nothing really stands out to me with these two wedges that make them any better than my old vokeys.

    Posted:
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  • MountainKingMountainKing  1792Members Posts: 1,792
    Joined:  #18

    I put the 58 in my bag this year and around the green it's my go to club . It plays and looks very similar to the ping eye 2 wedges I carried around for decades, it was almost comforting the first time I looked at it. The struggles I had was on more full shots with it. Distance control was brutal, took a lot of practice to get that part dialed in with the wedge.

    Posted:

    Taylormade M3 8.5* Fujikura Pro Tour Spec 73x
    Taylormade M3 3 Wood Accra FX 300
    Callaway Razr Tour Hybrid 19* Nunchuk
    Rocketbladez Tour 4-PW TT X100
    Tour Preferred 50/54 S400
    TM HI Toe 58 ATV S400
    TM Itsy Bitsy

  • jasonp87jasonp87  2138Members Posts: 2,138
    Joined:  #19

    I loved my 60* Hi Tor with the ATV grind around the green and in bunkers.

    Wasnt a fan of it on longer pitches and half to full swings. Think it was the grind and leading edge. Id find it would sometimes want to dig and the leading edge being rounded would mess my alignment.

    I had a 54 that i loved. So i was gonna get a 60* 4way sole to try but i actually found the tour issue 60* lowbounce grind ajd its fantastic.

    Posted:
    Driver
    TM M6 (9) Fujikura Pro 2.0 TS 6X 45"
    3W
    TM M3 (16) Fujikura Atmos Red Tour Spec 7X 43.25"
    5W
    TM M3 (19) Fujikura Atmos Red Tour Spec 7X 42.25"
    3i
    TM TP UDI (20.5) Dynamic Gold X100
    Irons
    Mizuno MP4 (4-PW) Modus 3 125X
    Wedges---TM Milled Grind Modus 3 125X (48) & TM Hi-Toe (54)(60) Modus 3 125 Wedge
    Putter
    TM Spider Tour Black (DJ) 34" SS Pistol GTR
  • TrueWRXTrueWRX  1702Members Posts: 1,702
    Joined:  #20

    I have the LB version as well which has a c grind. Best wedge > @jasonp87 said:

    I loved my 60* Hi Tor with the ATV grind around the green and in bunkers.

    Wasnt a fan of it on longer pitches and half to full swings. Think it was the grind and leading edge. Id find it would sometimes want to dig and the leading edge being rounded would mess my alignment.

    I had a 54 that i loved. So i was gonna get a 60* 4way sole to try but i actually found the tour issue 60* lowbounce grind ajd its fantastic.

    Posted:
  • Dunny51Dunny51 Pittsburgh, Pa 239Members Posts: 239
    Joined:  #21

    IMO they are great around the greens, but I struggle with distance control on shots from 60+ yards. Just today I had 2 shots that were almost identical in distance and conditions. I felt like I put very similar swings on both and one was 10 yds short and the other was 10 yds long. I’m gonna start hitting those shots with my regular 54* wedge but haven’t had time to practice it yet. But can’t take it out of my bag bc of around greens. It also feels harder than my milled grind wedges

    Posted:
  • cadman88cadman88 Advanced Member Buffalo / Rochester, NY 2421Members Posts: 2,421
    Joined:  #22

    I picked up a Hi-Toe 60 with ATV grind when they first came out, had my buddy reshaft it with a DG120 S400 Tour Issue and will not part with it.. granted it's my first 60 wedge (always played 50, 54, and 58 in the past) but this thing is like a weapon.. the rare times I get into bunkers I have zero problems getting out and close to the hole with it. I really think that the ATV grind makes a huge difference. Middle of last season I added a 56 Hi-Toe (also full face groves) I haven't had that one reshafted yet, but it seems to work as well. At some point I might replace my 50 MG wedge with a 50 Hi-Toe, but not in a hurry to do so.
    But I will add, I've never gamed a Vokey in the last 5-6 years, so they might be good as well.. I had Ping Glide wedges before the Hi-Toe wedges.. and liked those as well.

    Posted:
    • Taylormade M6 10.5°, UST TourSPX VTS Silver 7x
    • Taylormade M6 D-Type 16°, UST TourSPX VTS Silver 7x
    • Taylormade M3 Rescue 4 / 21° @ 22.5°, Tensei Blue 80HYs
    • See below...
    • Taylormade Hi-Toe 56°, Dynamic Gold 120 Tour Issue S400
    • Taylormade Hi-Toe 60°, Dynamic Gold 120 Tour Issue S400
    • Scotty Cameron GoLo 3 35"

               2014 Adams XTD Forged 4-PW, DG 120 S300
               2014 Adams XTD Forged 4-PW, GW, Dynalite Gold XP S300          
               2019 Cobra King Forged MB's 5-PW, GW KBS $-Taper 120s


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  • Viktoryred3Viktoryred3 Just playing the game...  189Members Posts: 189
    Joined:  #23

    @miles2go said:

    @aenemated said:
    Personally, I ditched any and all attempts at chipping/pitching with higher lofted wedges and unless there's some case where I REALLY need to loft it up (and I'll just grab my 56° and lay it open); I stick with my 52° for pretty much all of that.

    Too funny. I ditched any and all attempts at chipping/pitching with anything other than a 60* wedge. I decided to practice and play exclusively with the 60* for everything 60 yards and closer, including every type of green side bunker shot. Not sure of the wisdom of it but it takes the uncertainty out of a lot of club choices. I think it’s got 6* of bounce.

    I did the same as you, with the exact setup. 60.06...definitely takes out much of the uncertainty in club choice, but the 6 degree bounce is most crucial for me since it allows me to play a plethora of different shots inside of 70yds and around the greens. The only time I struggled with this setup was when I didn’t practice my short game for a solid 2 months (I was playing so much, and out of pure laziness), that I then started to incorporate my 54.14 SW around the greens bc that 60.06 started looking like a butter knife lol.

    Posted:
  • manima1manima1 Chicago 735Members Posts: 735
    Joined:  #24

    Good stuff here, it sounds like by and large my experience is not that uncommon with these. Still frustrating how inconsistent these can be on longer chips and pitches, but their versatility is really unmatched on the "get out of trouble" shots.

    Gets me wondering how a similar sole grind to the hi-toe ATV on a MG2 head would work - might get best of both worlds.

    Posted:
    M5 9.0 - Kuro Kage Dual Core 80tx 
    '16 M2HL 16.8 tour issued deep faced - Fujikura 8.3 TS
    zU45 18 degree - S400
    z745 4-9 - S400
    SM6 46.08F - S400 Chrome
    SM6 50.08F - S400 Steel Gray
    SM7 54.10S - S400 Raw
    TM Hi-Toe 60.12ATV - S400 Black
    TM Spider X - Navy
  • jbole267jbole267 Calgary 366Members Posts: 366
    Joined:  #25

    I game 64* Hi Toe and would agree even at 60* I wouldn't play as my regular wedge. That being said, as a specialty club, over trees, out of bunkers, out of thick penalty areas (places I am often) this club warrants a spot in my bag.

    Sometimes I will try to use on 40-80 yard approaches with inconsistent results.

    Posted:
    Taylormade M5 - Hzrdus T1100 6.5
    Srixon Z745 Project x 6.0
    Titleist Vokey Sm7 50-54-58
    Taylormade Hi-Toe 64
    Taylormade Spider X
    Taylormade TP5X
  • the bishopthe bishop  3565Members Posts: 3,565
    Joined:  #26

    From this Rory WITB from August : https://forums.golfwrx.com/discussion/1786731/rory-mcilroy-witb-august-2019/p1 His Hi-Toe's were out. I haven't seen any comments from him since on why he took them out but several on here have commented on difficulty in distance control from 60yds and out. Also not sure if he's put them back in but just wonder if that was his motivation at the time. Wedge control for Rory seems to be a constant subject of discussion on here.

    Posted:
    W/S Cortex 10.5* 
    W/S C300 15*
    W/S C300 20*/23*
    W/S FG Tour Forged 5-P
    W/S PMP 52/56/60
    W/S Infinite Windy City
  • j.a.j.a.  1610Members Posts: 1,610
    Joined:  #27

    I tried the Hi-Toe but it didn’t convince me to kick out the Nike Toe-sweep from my bag, this thing is wonderful from bunkers and fluffy lies, I’m happy I have a few brand new to replace my gamer

    Posted:
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  • 1Mordrid11Mordrid1  733Members Posts: 733
    Joined:  #28

    I just switched this week from the PM Grind 56 to a Ping Glide 3.0. When I was testing for my new wedge, the PM Grind and TM HiToe were nowhere near as consistent for me as the more "traditional" style wedges. Around the green it just seems that without consistent perfect contact the trajectory and spin vary much more from shot to shot with the HiToe and PM grind than with the other wedges I tried. And I am not even talking about huge variances in strike location or poor strikes. The trajectory and spin differences I was seeing when the strike location was only 1/4" different was eye opening.

    Then today on the course after leaving several chips with the Glide 3.0 short of the hole, I realized that I had been chipping somewhat timidly with the PM Grind 19 that was in my bag because I just never could trust it to always do what I was trying. As the round went on I got more aggressive with my short game and my chips definitely ended in closer proximity on average than they have been for a while now.

    When I purchased the 56 degree Glide 3.0 I had planned on keeping the PM grind 60 in the bag just because of the versatility, but now I am not so sure. I really thought I loved the high toe designs, but if all of them are as unforgiving as the PM Grind and HiToe, then I just do not have the striking ability needed to consistently pull of the common shots, even if the design does allow me to pull off the occasional open face crazy flop shot.

    Posted:
    WITB

    PXG  0811x Oban Tour Limited 04
    Callaway Rogue 4 wood w/ Oban Kiyoshi White 4 65g
    Nike Sasquatch Sumo #4 hybrid(cut down 1") w/ H Diamana s
    Srixon U65 20° Miyazaki Kaula 7 s
    PXG 0211 irons 5-G True Temper Elevate 95 S (1°flat 1°weak D4)
    PING Glide 3.0 TS 56/ KBS Hi-Rev 2.0 115
    PING Glide 3.0 SS 60/KBS Hi-Rev 2.0 115
    PXG 400 gram Bat Attack putter(double bend shaft)
    Snell MTB Black

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