who has actually played with a legit scratch golfer/pro level player?

[ilikegolf26]

On 9/15/2018 at 9:35 AM, Shipwreck said:

I’m good friends with a pair of brothers that were mini tour players. Hands down best golfers I’ve ever had the luxury of seeing. Their game is so damn effortless and incredible, it really does give you a false sense of playing ability. Both just stupid long off the tee, every shot in the bag of tricks and a few I would have never even thought of like the oldest brother, he was playing around with hitting a nice little 300 yard trap draw driver......yes a driver. He would tee it low, put it a bit back in his stance and hit this towering tee shot that would get 0 yards of roll but find the fairway every single time. It was disgusting.

……why?

[Shipwreck]

14 hours ago, ilikegolf26 said:

……why?

Because he could and he just wanted to see if it was a viable tee shot when he needed something as a sort of fairway finder. Don’t think he ever put it in the bag in full time use but they level of playing ability is beyond me. 

[MtlJeff]

It's interesting because you hear all of these stories, and it just makes you wonder if pro golf is just a poor gamble even in the realm of pro sports. Meaning you probably have a smaller chance to make the PGA tour than the NBA, NFL, NHL relatively speaking. 

 

Since there is no defense, and so many guys who can go low even on mini tours, and the money required to even play the mini tours for long enough to get a break, the lower end of the tour just seems almost like a lottery. I used to say this about NFL kickers where i believe it's pretty much the same (just not enough positions for all of the guys that can do it)

 

Like , how many guys in the world could be the 90th ranked PGA tour player? Gotta be thousands right, assuming a couple of breaks had gone their way or they had richer parents or whatever?

[byoshio82]

On 9/15/2018 at 4:53 AM, NM44 said:

I play a decent amount of public course golf in the south Jersey area(usually one or two rounds a week and one on the weekend). I play a lot of my weekday rounds as a walk on single. I've been paired with all types. I am a mid capper and on a good day can get the ball out there pretty deep but i have never been paired with one who blew me away. I've seen guy hit the ball my distance, seen good putters, seen plotters that shoot in the low 80s, old guys that make a ton of pars,etc. But I've still have yet to see someone shoot within 5 of par let alone 60's or even close. Just wondering if you guys have seen the same or if its just same run of bad luck for me to not catch someone super good.

 

I have played with several players who have the ability to go low. As someone who has been a scratch - 2 handicap for the second half of HS till 20 and then again in my early 30's till late 30's. The ones who impress me are the ones who are just automatic. Meaning Drive the ball in the fairway most of the time and then hit greens at a crazy rate and capitolize on it. I have a couple buddies who routinely shoot in the high 60's and it is a grind playing against them for money. I enjoy it though as it makes me think about what I am doing vs just sending it everytime. 

 

I had one round which was amazing where me and a coworker both around a 2 at the time got paired up with two guys who were close to scratch if not scratch and we had a battle between all 4 of us and everyone shot in the 60's pretty damn crazy and fun round.

 

Only been able to keep score for pros. Got to carry the scoreboard for a PGA Championship for Tiger's group one day and then next Vijay Singh which is when I realized what elite ballstriking sounded like. Have also carried the board for LPGA and Champions Tour. ALL of them are on a different level of skill. It just sounds different than when most strike the ball.

[golfheaven69]

Played many rounds with a college first team AA and former fringe tour player. Totally different game. Precision is off the charts and my friend wasn’t good enough to stick full time on the tour. 

[dab36]

Played with a lpga tour pro this summer. Right after she vied for a major win.  I was nervous on first tee, by second hole I calmed down. She was awesome, friendly but quiet, poised. Beautiful swing. It actually helped me focus. I am a 9, have been a 5 before.  She was way less verbal than my normal golf buddies, which again, helped me to focus, and I just tried to keep pace and not gawk at her swing.  I shot 3 over on front which I hadn't done in a long time, I was sort of happy to learn that I could control nerves and play with a pro without thinking about them being a pro while playing.  I am not the strongest minded golfer but felt I made progress.  BTW, I am decently long, not a bomber, probably 250 ish; 275+/- ish length when I feel good.  Used to be 107 swing speed, probably 105 or so now, idk.  She was tiny, I probably weigh 150 lbs more than her, lift weights, ok athlete, not great but ok/getting old, but she smoothly out drove me by 10 +/- yards all day, same tees.   A couple times I did watch her strike the ball, it was just awesome seeing the tempo and full follow through of a professional.  I would gladly play with a tour pro again if I had the fortune , especially ladies.  

[Orchardist]

Yep, for about 40years. 

[Phabs]

On 8/28/2023 at 6:30 AM, MtlJeff said:

It's interesting because you hear all of these stories, and it just makes you wonder if pro golf is just a poor gamble even in the realm of pro sports. Meaning you probably have a smaller chance to make the PGA tour than the NBA, NFL, NHL relatively speaking. 

 

Since there is no defense, and so many guys who can go low even on mini tours, and the money required to even play the mini tours for long enough to get a break, the lower end of the tour just seems almost like a lottery. I used to say this about NFL kickers where i believe it's pretty much the same (just not enough positions for all of the guys that can do it)

 

Like , how many guys in the world could be the 90th ranked PGA tour player? Gotta be thousands right, assuming a couple of breaks had gone their way or they had richer parents or whatever?

 

 

I'd argue you have far less of a chance of going pro in golf than any other sport.  I won two tournaments in college and I couldn't even sniff the drawers of a pga guys talent.   

[MtlJeff]

7 minutes ago, Phabs said:

 

 

I'd argue you have far less of a chance of going pro in golf than any other sport.  I won two tournaments in college and I couldn't even sniff the drawers of a pga guys talent.   

 

I was a college kicker LOL , hence my other example. Very tough when there is limited spots!

[Phabs]

11 minutes ago, MtlJeff said:

 

I was a college kicker LOL , hence my other example. Very tough when there is limited spots!

Absolutely - you were used to pressure then haha 

Edited August 30, 2023 by Phabs

[Orchardist]

It's all about the putter approaching the upper tier let alone playing on any type of money tour.  Everyone flags it and everyone has finely executed recovery shots. A putt missed here, a putt missed there and Any negative thought of doubt over a period of time ends most dreams stone cold on the green.  

[Mcgeeno]

On 8/30/2023 at 4:47 PM, Orchardist said:

It's all about the putter approaching the upper tier let alone playing on any type of money tour.  Everyone flags it and everyone has finely executed recovery shots. A putt missed here, a putt missed there and Any negative thought of doubt over a period of time ends most dreams stone cold on the green.  

 

Maybe at the top of the very top.

 

In my experience I havent noticed the same thing when looking at elite amateur golf.

 

I'm a 1 cap who has dabbled in the scratch and plus range for stretches and the legit plus cappers in tournaments simply hit it closer more often. When I play with 5 caps and above I just tend to hit more greens and give myself better looks.

 

All the best players I ever played with who won huge tournaments and piled up trophies didn't stand out due to lagging it the best or making some great par saves.

 

They hit it the closer more often.

[ebk]

Played with a guy once who won a couple green jackets.  It's a whole 'nother level....

[elwhippy]

Played a few holes on Monday with a plus 6 hcp member. He is at College in US. Absolute joy to watch someone have the ball on a string. Played for the widest parts of the fairway on tight holes, got the driver out when it was needed. Short game control was amazing. The swing repeated like a metronome and there was no rush to hit the ball. After the game I went for a beer. He went to the range....says it all. 

[kiwigolf72]

I play regular rounds with guys and girls who are scratch or better. Very big difference between amateurs who are scratch and a tour level pro.

 

[savini72]

My good friend is a scratch golfer and all I can say is that they play a completely different game! It’s really fun picking his brain on the course to try to see what he is thinking and how he shapes his shots. 

[MountainKing]

I have 10 guys that I regularly play with and they range from +2 to 2 -  got a buddy who has been on the tour many many years and has a couple wins out there and we get together generally once a year as long as his schedule allows it. His game is not comparable to any of ours, even our +2 who played on the hooters tour years back.   But it's all relative - his bad shots would be acceptable to me in the same way my bad shots would be acceptable to a 20 handicap.  

[Retrop1]

On 8/28/2023 at 4:45 PM, golfheaven69 said:

Played many rounds with a college first team AA and former fringe tour player. Totally different game. Precision is off the charts and my friend wasn’t good enough to stick full time on the tour. 

I have had similar experience. A close friend has won 2 state opens, multiple PGA Section events, along with a handful of mini tour events (old Tarheel Tour and Hooters summer series). Played in a PGAT event and several KFT events, making multiple cuts. He never really got into a spot where he could make it on tour. I don't think most people understand how good the tour players are. This gentleman is conservatively a +4 that travels well and hits it long and could not make it. 

[RoyalMustang]

On 5/8/2023 at 12:54 PM, Kasparov05 said:

I've played with a bunch. as a 9 HDC I've always been amazed at the difference between me and a scratch. Whats even more amazing is seeing that the gap between me and a scratch is SMALLER than the scratch gap to a +3

 

I'm pretty sure it's like that in all endeavors. "point of diminishing returns" is super true. 

 

I've been elite and then pro in another sport but when you are training with guys who are top 100 in the world, it's like they are 10% better. Maybe not that much but if feels that way. I mean, it took me full-time training the past 4 years to gain 10% and I need a similar gain to be still an also-ran at that level? Yikes.

 

Top of the heap, Major winners playing with the average mini-tour guy is probably like Messi coming to the MLS. D1 college scholarship guys playing with an amateur scratch guy is probably a similar gap. 

[m d g]

When I first started playing in my 20s I played with my future brother-in-law and his two buddies, all scratch or better. All had regular jobs.

 

Yes, they were long, even in the persimmon era. But the thing that amazed me the most was their short games. They got up and down from anywhere.

 

Even though I was barely breaking a hundred I learned to keep up my pace (always being the first to hit after the tee shots) and not screw around with a bunch of practice swings, etc. Just get ready to hit and don't step on putting lines : )

[Nels55]

I have played with quite a few scratch guys and a former Canadian Tour player and some former Division 1 guys.  Also one young lady who played at San Jose State and had an awesome swing.  Just watching her hit the ball was... I don't know the right words but it was really good.  The truth is that playing with any of those guys improved my game just from watching them swing.  I am a good mimic and unfortunately most of the guys that I golf have swings that are not good to watch.

[Mikey_HACKilroy]

I have played with good golfers but nobody that I ever saw that was so good that I was in awe. One guy truly was great with a putter, but he was a little unpredictable off the tee. That's not to say he was bad; definitely not bad. LOL

 

Great at recovering, though. Claimed to be near or at scratch, but I wasn't sure I really believed him. Admittedly, it was a small sample.

 

I am at odds as to whether or not I'd want to play with a truly good/great player especially after hanging around here. Thanks to WRX I'd be too concerned that they'd be telling their buddies about the comparatively unskilled golfer they played a round with..... 😝

 

Mostly, I'm kidding (or am I) but in all honesty, if I could play golf with a scratch golfer who is also an even keeled nice person I'd be 100% game. I just never have. My dad caddied for a great player years ago that may have been on tour, but he was never sure. The only thing he was certain of is that man was an exceptional golfer. For the record, my dad is 70, so this would have been somewhere around 50 years ago.

[Louis_Posture]

My regular skins game is 12 to 24 players ranging in handicap from +3 to about 15. It's incredible that the higher handicap players (for example 6 to 15 index) don't pay more attention to the club selection of the + to 0 handicap players.

For example, from a bad lie in the rough a 0 handicap will likely play a short iron but the higher handicap usually swings a long shafted club.

[Phabs]

1 hour ago, Louis_Posture said:

My regular skins game is 12 to 24 players ranging in handicap from +3 to about 15. It's incredible that the higher handicap players (for example 6 to 15 index) don't pay more attention to the club selection of the + to 0 handicap players.

For example, from a bad lie in the rough a 0 handicap will likely play a short iron but the higher handicap usually swings a long shafted club.

There’s plenty of those reasons why bad golfers stay bad golfers. 

[acemandrake]

The difference I saw when playing with a 0 hcp. and a 5 hcp. was around the greens.

 

The 5 got those shots inside a 6 ft. circle.  The 0 got them inside 3 ft.

[ProV1Killa]

On 9/15/2018 at 11:43 AM, MtlJeff said:

Legit scratch and Pro level are 2 very different things.

This is an understatement.  Coming out of college I thought I might have a chance of playing pro level.  My college coach came from a golfing family and his brother had a successful tour career.  One day we were talking and I mentioned that I was ready to go all in and go for it.  Fortunately, we had become good enough friends that he arranged some time on the course for me to play with his brother.  At the time I was officially playing at +6, but not recording all my rounds, legitimately I probably was in the +8 - +9 range.  It didn't take long for me to decide golf was a good lifelong passion, but grad school was the better option for a good life.  At my best I would break a green at 200 yards down to 8ths when picking my target.  The tour player was calling paces at the same distance and then hitting them 7 out of 10 times.  His misses were smaller than what I was calling a target.  

[Louis_Posture]

Worldwide there are thousands of players with golf swings and shot making ability capable of earning and maintaining a PGA Tour card.

But golf is a mental game and during pressure situations relatively few players have  the mental ability required to execute shots (and shoot consistently low scores).

For example, successful Tour players such as Brad Faxon, Billy Mayfair, and Jose Olazabal had tee-to-green games not much better than guys winning State amateur tournaments, but they had the mental ability to shoot consistently low scores.

Edited October 14, 2023 by Louis_Posture

[Foonsy]

Played with a scratch golfer yesterday who shot 1 over par. His 7 Iron goes maybe 125 on a good day, but man is he a stick

[dropkicked]

George Knudson. He taught me how to swing a club... What a ball striker..

[phizzy30]

On 10/13/2023 at 8:10 PM, ProV1Killa said:

This is an understatement.  Coming out of college I thought I might have a chance of playing pro level.  My college coach came from a golfing family and his brother had a successful tour career.  One day we were talking and I mentioned that I was ready to go all in and go for it.  Fortunately, we had become good enough friends that he arranged some time on the course for me to play with his brother.  At the time I was officially playing at +6, but not recording all my rounds, legitimately I probably was in the +8 - +9 range.  It didn't take long for me to decide golf was a good lifelong passion, but grad school was the better option for a good life.  At my best I would break a green at 200 yards down to 8ths when picking my target.  The tour player was calling paces at the same distance and then hitting them 7 out of 10 times.  His misses were smaller than what I was calling a target.  

You do realize that Tiger's handicap in 2000 was +9.  So what you're saying is that you were a legit +9 cap coming outta college........