Interesting development - $3000 pay to caddy from a $1.3 million winners check? (MOD EDIT - NO POLIT

[MtlJeff]

Gillis kind of ruined that caddy. Even looking at those pictures of the people taking his side, he's been infantilized, reduced to internet begging (done in his behalf of course). I guess internet begging is the new normal.

 

We spent like 5 pages here alone analyzing his smile!!!

[Under2hours]

Gillis kind of ruined that caddy. Even looking at those pictures of the people taking his side, he's been infantilized, reduced to internet begging (done in his behalf of course). I guess internet begging is the new normal.

 

How so? There is one tournament a year there. If anything someone in 2019 will search him out, hope he is a good luck charm and attempt to right a wrong.

 

Kuch's PR team doesn't care or taking the "Don't say anything" approach.... As I stated earlier a simple "In reflection, what I thought was a fair agreement & bonus was not & I've corrected it. Was caught up in the moment as I have a regular caddy & frankly did not think it through".....

 

That of course would mean he has to dig into his pockets & with his alligator arms just can't seem to reach them......

[ThinkingPlus]

Gillis kind of ruined that caddy. Even looking at those pictures of the people taking his side, he's been infantilized, reduced to internet begging (done in his behalf of course). I guess internet begging is the new normal.

 

We spent like 5 pages here alone analyzing his smile!!!

A smile that launched a thousand posts.

[ebrasmus21]

So I’m really the only one that tips at McDonalds?

 

 

 

 

Damn it. Sorry people, couldn’t help it. I really need to stop.

[cxx]

Gillis kind of ruined that caddy. Even looking at those pictures of the people taking his side, he's been infantilized, reduced to internet begging (done in his behalf of course). I guess internet begging is the new normal.

 

How so? There is one tournament a year there. If anything someone in 2019 will search him out, hope he is a good luck charm and attempt to right a wrong.

 

 

 

Somehow I doubt it. More than almost any sport figures, tour players avoid controversy. They negotiate individual sponsorship deals rather than team salaries. Look at the stink that this has stirred up. A ten foot pole would be too short.

[Holy Moses]

Summary of the thread please? I’d like to be outraged and offended on behalf of people I don’t know but don’t have the time to go through all 31 pages.

 

Thanks....

 

Former PGA Tour player Tom Gillis wrote on Twitter than Kuchar only gave his local caddie $3k out of his $1.3 million winning prize when he won in Mexico at the end of 2018. Kuchar disputed that, and said it was more than $3k. Turns out Kuchar gave the caddie $5k.

[soap1984]

Imo this shows how overpaid tour caddies are. I do think this was cheap from kuchar but let's be honest, caddies aren't "earning" an equivalent of 10% of the winners share the player is doing 99.9% of the winning.

 

That is a secondary point to this whole conversation, because kuchar should have given him more, but let's be honest this is a tipping conversation not a contract conversation. He basically pulled a random guy off the street and got the same information the caddy gives to 20 handicap golfers who shoot 103...

 

I do think kuchar is cheap and I don't like his whole act, plus the kuuuch thing is annoying.

[cxx]

If I were to speculate, which seems to be the norm, I would guess that the caddy didn't even ask for more.

[hollabachgt]

There are only a couple of people who truly know the in's and out's of the actual deal made between Kucher and the caddie. At the start of the week an agreed payday of $5K for a local caddie sounds very high. I'd imagine the Caddie was rather ecstatic to get the offer of $5K, especially considering that Kucher hadn't won on tour in over 4 years. If they both agreed to the flat fee, then I don't see any issues with how this has played out.

 

Should Kuchar had payed him more? Maybe, but what if Kuchar had missed the cut, would he have be obliged to ask for ~$1,500 back since he didn't have to work the weekend?

 

Should the Caddie have negotiated a lower fixed fee and included a performance bonus? maybe, but then he would have needed confidence that Kuchar was going to reach that performance level.

[Golfjack]

I'm confused did Kuch win twice this year or not in 4 years?

[braincramp52]

For me,the only guy that looks like a d!ck in this is Tom Gillis.

[Under2hours]

For me,the only guy that looks like a d!ck in this is Tom Gillis.

If you don't shine a light, then it would continue. #metoo

[deadsolid...shank]

There are only a couple of people who truly know the in's and out's of the actual deal made between Kucher and the caddie. At the start of the week an agreed payday of $5K for a local caddie sounds very high. I'd imagine the Caddie was rather ecstatic to get the offer of $5K, especially considering that Kucher hadn't won on tour in over 4 years. If they both agreed to the flat fee, then I don't see any issues with how this has played out.

 

Should Kuchar had payed him more? Maybe, but what if Kuchar had missed the cut, would he have be obliged to ask for ~$1,500 back since he didn't have to work the weekend?

 

Should the Caddie have negotiated a lower fixed fee and included a performance bonus? maybe, but then he would have needed confidence that Kuchar was going to reach that performance level.

 

No, no, no! You can’t be logical and reasonable about it. You can’t look at the situation with righteous indignation and shout down from your mountain top about

the big, bad rich tour pro taking advantage of the downtrodden local guy if you actually stop and realize that NO ONE here really, truly knows the entire story.

 

A little objectiveness would spoil all the fun.

 

For me,the only guy that looks like a d!ck in this is Tom Gillis.

If you don't shine a light, then it would continue. #metoo

 

What exactly would continue? Do you know for a fact?

 

I didn’t think so.

[braincramp52]

I'm confused did Kuch win twice this year or not in 4 years?

 

He won back in November of 2018 also at the Mayakoba.

[JaNelson38]

Great blame some one else. Sorry Gillis shed a light on someone who was wronged. If you think $5,000 was fair, congrats. He has sparked debate and and hopefully a wrong has been righted & we can be pretty sure the next time a Looper gets a bag he won't be treated like Kuch did his.

 

He was "wronged"? GTFO. Its a business transaction between 2 adults. If the caddie didnt like the amount Kuchar offered to pay him, he didnt have to carry Kuchar's bag....its not like Kuchar held a gun to this guy's head the week of the tourney and said, "You're carrying my bag, and this is what I'm paying you". The fact that Kuchar ended up winning is meaningless. He could have finished in the bottom half of the field just as easy.

 

Also, why are people talking like $5K is peanuts? That's somewhere around 8% of the average yearly salary of someone in a professional field in the United States. And this guy earned that carrying Matt Kuchar's golf bag around for 4 rounds. As far as Im concerned, that's a pretty good week's worth of work. And this caddie probably had the time of his life and he is now popular whenever he is carrying bags on the golf course. I know for a fact that if there was a pro tourney at my home course, and a player walked up to me and offered me a flat $5K in cash for carrying his bag for the 4 rounds regardless of where the player finished, I would do it in a second and have a blast. I bet most other people in this forum would also.

 

If there is one thing many people seem to be universally good at in this country, its telling others (who usually have more than they do) how to spend their money.

[hollabachgt]

I'm confused did Kuch win twice this year or not in 4 years?

 

He won back in November of 2018 also at the Mayakoba.

 

Kucher's last three wins are the 2019 Sony, 2018 Myakoba (The tournament in question), 2014 RBC Heritage

[bscinstnct]

Summary of the thread please? I'd like to be outraged and offended on behalf of people I don't know but don't have the time to go through all 31 pages.

 

Thanks....

 

 

2:25 seconds....

 

[The General]

Summary of the thread please? I'd like to be outraged and offended on behalf of people I don't know but don't have the time to go through all 31 pages.

 

Thanks....

Tom Gillis is an a**hole and people need to mind their own business.

 

And with Kuch, nobody smiles that much and then screws someone over. The Caddie was taken care of and the details are none of our concern. Lock it up so I'll quit clicking into here lol

[DavePelz4]

Yep, when I get my $2 double cheese burger I throw 50 cents back through the drive through window

 

Hey, back in the day, we made friends with these nice ladies who worked at McDonalds drive in.

 

We would pull up at the end of the night after the club.

 

And they would just throw us like half dozen quarter pounders to scrarf down.

 

See, pays to be nice to people ; )

 

Oh man there used to be this dirty pool hall next to the club we went to, pretty much the same thing. 3AM you basically had your fill of all the leftover fries LOL

 

I used to eat them alone and wait for all my friends who picked up chicks.

 

Did you get any left overs that way?

[North Texas]

I hope this thread never ends.

 

This thread went down the drain several times already. But obviously the drain has a clog in it and it keeps backing up.

[MtlJeff]

Great blame some one else. Sorry Gillis shed a light on someone who was wronged. If you think $5,000 was fair, congrats. He has sparked debate and and hopefully a wrong has been righted & we can be pretty sure the next time a Looper gets a bag he won't be treated like Kuch did his.

 

He was "wronged"? GTFO. Its a business transaction between 2 adults. If the caddie didnt like the amount Kuchar offered to pay him, he didnt have to carry Kuchar's bag....its not like Kuchar held a gun to this guy's head the week of the tourney and said, "You're carrying my bag, and this is what I'm paying you". The fact that Kuchar ended up winning is meaningless. He could have finished in the bottom half of the field just as easy.

 

Also, why are people talking like $5K is peanuts? That's somewhere around 8% of the average yearly salary of someone in a professional field in the United States. And this guy earned that carrying Matt Kuchar's golf bag around for 4 rounds. As far as Im concerned, that's a pretty good week's worth of work. And this caddie probably had the time of his life and he is now popular whenever he is carrying bags on the golf course. I know for a fact that if there was a pro tourney at my home course, and a player walked up to me and offered me a flat $5K in cash for carrying his bag for the 4 rounds regardless of where the player finished, I would do it in a second and have a blast. I bet most other people in this forum would also.

 

If there is one thing many people seem to be universally good at in this country, its telling others (who usually have more than they do) how to spend their money.

 

Yeah....Although this type of rational post (in either direction) probably belongs more in the first 10 pages before this thread went more off the rails than the train in The Fugitive

 

I have no issue i guess with people calling Kuchar "cheap" because it's customary to pay a caddie more. I mean in this case i don't really agree with it but whatever, i'v probably called my friends "cheap" for not tipping enough so i shouldn't judge

 

But the internet mob saying the caddy was "wronged" or "treated unfairly" or scammed or whatever. Just give it a rest....as you point out theres millions of people who don't make 5000$ for less than a weeks work. You read the wrong posts or twitter feeds and you'd think there's an 8mm film of Kuchar whipping this guy with a car antenna

[Ferguson]

For me,the only guy that looks like a d!ck in this is Tom Gillis.

 

 

Let me remind you Tom Gillis graduated at the top of class from Grandelin U. And, in addition to mainstreaming twitter, inventing the hyphen and being a marble rye bread artisan-craftsman, Tom achieved the following:

• Co-authored the book, “Don’t Anchor my Chancre”
  
• Made tube socks fashionable in Fall
  
• Shot 73 using a kro-flite ball and weighted US Kids 7 iron
  
• Can sing 32 show tunes on demand
  
• Once operated a Fotomat
  

[jmck]

Summary of the thread please? I'd like to be outraged and offended on behalf of people I don't know but don't have the time to go through all 31 pages.

 

Thanks....

Tom Gillis is an a**hole and people need to mind their own business.

 

And with Kuch, nobody smiles that much and then screws someone over. The Caddie was taken care of and the details are none of our concern. Lock it up so I'll quit clicking into here lol

 

Oh you sweet summer child. Bless your heart.

[lowheel]

Summary of the thread please? I'd like to be outraged and offended on behalf of people I don't know but don't have the time to go through all 31 pages.

 

Thanks....

Tom Gillis is an a**hole and people need to mind their own business.

 

And with Kuch, nobody smiles that much and then screws someone over. The Caddie was taken care of and the details are none of our concern. Lock it up so I'll quit clicking into here lol

 

Oh you sweet summer child. Bless your heart.

 

[lowheel]

For me,the only guy that looks like a d!ck in this is Tom Gillis.

If you don't shine a light, then it would continue. #metoo

 

[Dpavs]

For those still beating the "it was business arrangement negotiated between two adults" drum let's not forget that the caddie for Kuchar was appointed by the Tournament and from other instances such as the one when Sergio won with a replacement caddie as cited in this thread, it may be that it is not unusual for the appointed caddie to not have negotiated or know what he is going to make until the tournament is over. (If someone here has a enough insight to let the rest of us know if this is the norm or not, great, but I sure do not know myself.)

 

Either way, in this particular instance, the whole he got what he negotiated for argument may very well entirely wrong.

[wobgon]

Someone get me up to speed here...….How do we know now for sure that the caddie was paid 5000.00...….Last I knew, this was here say from some dopy looking guy in plaid shorts.

[cardia10]

The big question is....How does Tom Gillis know what a winner on the big tour pays? The 1992 Waterloo Open was a different time and is basically the Iowa Open. Probably solid, but not what I wold compare to a tour event. Even his last and only WEB win was almost 10 years ago. It is bad form for not very good golfers to try to tweet and stay relevant this way. What someone agrees to pay a private contractor is their business.

[Matt J]

I'm not trying to throw more fuel on this dumpster fire (okay who am I kidding of course I am)

 

Tom Gillis is the social activist who gets Dan Berger millionaire young golf pro his 6 grand from Ben Crane millionaire middle age golf pro. In reality, that's all we know of Tom Gillis, correct?

 

Everybody loved that story because Crane is a bible thumping hypocrite along the lines of Bubba. But, ultimately the honor of the side bet on the pro tour is not a huge concern for many of us as far as social justice.

 

So, here's my summary:

 

Gillis outs Kuch as having a reputation as a tight wad who took advantage of the fact that he had a local caddie on his bag for his win in Mexico to "tip" the caddie very little in comparison to what he deems as fair.

 

The story built a bare minimum of momentum with Kuch being asked about it on Oahu during the Sony. Kuch blew it off calling it a non-story and vouching that the caddie was paid adequately.

 

So, what's Gillis's response?

 

REPEATEDLY, the truth will come out. Kuch will pay up. There will be a consequence. So where is it? Crickets.

 

Plaid shorts guy ruins the timing and and plot climax for Gillis? Perhaps Kuch's win threw a wrench in the works? Did Gillis intentionally drop this tidbit hoping Kuch would get rattled and choke the Sony away? That's next level vitriol if so. It didn't work, so did that stop Gillis's accusations in their tracks? Where did NLU and all of the other social activist golf bloggers go? All we've had is crickets. My technology fueled attention span is at its limit... I'll be moving on to figuring out why a 50+ year old Columbian is buying his way into Web.com events only to shot 30 over par each day.

[ebrasmus21]

For me,the only guy that looks like a d!ck in this is Tom Gillis.

If you don't shine a light, then it would continue. #metoo

 

Guys, I saw Under2hours kick a cat one time. If I had twitter I'd be tweeting about it right now.

 

Under2hours - congratulations you are officially a cat-kicker. See how easy that was?

 

P.S. Stop kicking cats for cripes sake.