Korean Tour money leader suspended THREE YEARS for obscene gesture

[buckeyefl]

> @ClarkGrswld4 said:

> ****, this is a pretty harsh penalty. Sure he shouldn't have done it but three years?? I thought the Korean tour was based out of South Korea and not North Korea lol

>

> https://www.golfchannel.com/news/korean-tour-money-leader-bio-kim-suspended-3-years-obscene-gesture

 

Massive cultural differences. Even so I was still a little surprised at the length of the suspension.

[buckeyefl]

> @thebogeyputt said:

> Those who were there claim that the gallery intentionally un-muted their phones and took pics during the swing (so the shutter sound goes off). can't justify the player's actions, but it becomes more gray if you take into account spectators' behavior. some of these guys literally depend on these events and obviously train hard for it

 

The phones all makes the shutter sounds over there. It was done to prevent some less than honorable behavior.

[buckeyefl]

> @thebogeyputt said:

> Those who were there claim that the gallery intentionally un-muted their phones and took pics during the swing (so the shutter sound goes off). can't justify the player's actions, but it becomes more gray if you take into account spectators' behavior. some of these guys literally depend on these events and obviously train hard for it

 

The phones all makes the shutter sounds over there. It was done to prevent some less than honorable behavior.> @musclefront said:

> > @mackepa said:

> > > @thebogeyputt said:

> > > Those who were there claim that the gallery intentionally un-muted their phones and took pics during the swing (so the shutter sound goes off). can't justify the player's actions, but it becomes more gray if you take into account spectators' behavior. some of these guys literally depend on these events and obviously train hard for it

> >

> > First, they didn’t “unmute” their shutters. In Korea it is law that cameras must have a shutter sound. So as far as I’m aware it’s not something that can be turned on or off.

> >

> > Second, the punishment is way over the top in my opinion.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> That is a law in Japan not Korea.

>

 

"It's illegal in South Korea for any mobile phone maker to sell a phone that allows a user to silence the faux shutter sound on their mobile phone cameras, so that means overzealous fans could distract players by taking pictures during their swings. Oct 7, 2015

 

"They're not the only ones, but the latest to jump on the "shutter noise" solution to the "camera phone problem" is South Korea. Starting next year, they're going to require new camera phones to include a loud clicking sound when someone takes a picture, mimicking an analog camera. The only purpose for such a noise, of course, is to alert people around you that you're taking a picture". 2003

[cfunk11]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @cfunk11 said:

> > What happened to the guy with camera, executed?

>

>

> What guy ?

 

The guy or gal with the cell camera that took a picture in his downswing.

 

[Krt22]

> @tiderider said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @Murphy76 said:

> > > Wow. If this had been *North* Korea, it might make sense.

> > >

> > > I guess those of us in the US take freedom of expression for granted sometimes.....

> > >

> >

> >

> > Yep. I know everyone has the occasion to do so. But I was raised by my grandfather , a two theatre WWII vet , and he made sure I knew what the cost of that type freedom is/was. I’ll hear his voice till my dying day I’m sure. As far as I know I’m the only one he ever described D-day etc to. Far more graphic than any movie I’ve ever seen.

> >

> > Sorry for the history lesson. But it just took over my mind when I read your post.

>

> political philosophical aside here, but "freedom of expression" pertains to being free from government restrictions of expression ... tours are private companies /entities that are "free" to 'express' their restrictions, a cornerstone of capitalism ... are they not? (philosophically speaking) ...

>

> 

>

 

Yes, two very different things. PGA tour pros are free to express themselves, they are also free to suffer the consequences for a breach of conduct. I mean the guys can't even wear shorts lol

[the bishop]

> @kevinscott22 said:

> Poulter flipped off the crowd at the 2010 Waste Management with no punishment, people forget that

 

His punishment is that he has to live out the rest of his life as Ian Poulter. That and the fact that for his now defunct clothing line he designed a logo that looked like a p*nis.

[cdnglf]

Should have been a lifetime ban, minimum. Probably two.

[Hawkeye77]

> @kevinscott22 said:

> Poulter flipped off the crowd at the 2010 Waste Management with no punishment, people forget that

 

More of a Santa-like, laying a finger aside of his nose and funny as heck, IMO. Crafty veteran.

[golfandfishing]

Gotta admit - I have tons of respect for any organization that isn’t afraid to be heavy handed in dishing out punishment. The trend of being overly soft when players blatantly violate policies, contracts or laws irks me. So I say good for the Korean Tour - a public execution and displaying the remains as a warning to others is unfortunately only a thing of the past now.

[rangersgoalie]

boy, its a good thing my career ended before all the camera phone stuff.

 

I'd have been shot to the sun

[Vardon Grip]

The proper punishment is to cut said finger off, let him play next week.

[BiggErn]

> @buckeyefl said:

> > @ClarkGrswld4 said:

> > ****, this is a pretty harsh penalty. Sure he shouldn't have done it but three years?? I thought the Korean tour was based out of South Korea and not North Korea lol

> >

> > https://www.golfchannel.com/news/korean-tour-money-leader-bio-kim-suspended-3-years-obscene-gesture

>

> Massive cultural differences. Even so I was still a little surprised at the length of the suspension.

 

It’s different to a degree but it’s not “massive” by any stretch.

[Hankshank]

That gesture was pretty stupid, but the punishment is ridiculous. Remember some stars on the European tour in the 80´s and 90´s, I don't think I have to mention names. Those guys did maybe not give spectators that finger, but could be terribly rude to spectators without any kind of reprimands. A good thing with Social Media. You don't get away as easy with being rude as the guys were earlier.

[imakaveli]

Imho it's too much, couple of months would be enough

[bladehunter]

> @tiderider said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @Murphy76 said:

> > > Wow. If this had been *North* Korea, it might make sense.

> > >

> > > I guess those of us in the US take freedom of expression for granted sometimes.....

> > >

> >

> >

> > Yep. I know everyone has the occasion to do so. But I was raised by my grandfather , a two theatre WWII vet , and he made sure I knew what the cost of that type freedom is/was. I’ll hear his voice till my dying day I’m sure. As far as I know I’m the only one he ever described D-day etc to. Far more graphic than any movie I’ve ever seen.

> >

> > Sorry for the history lesson. But it just took over my mind when I read your post.

>

> political philosophical aside here, but "freedom of expression" pertains to being free from government restrictions of expression ... tours are private companies /entities that are "free" to 'express' their restrictions, a cornerstone of capitalism ... are they not? (philosophically speaking) ...

>

> 

>

 

Lol. Yes. But. In this land you’d have the recourse of suing that employer based on them providing a hostile work environment ( camera shutters) and probably violating your contract to work agreement when you earned your tour card. Unless there is a strong “ don’t flip off any fans “ clause. Not to mention your pain and suffering form the social media abuse that came after. You’d end up with a 10 year exemption , $10 mil added to your retirement account and a upfront parking space at every event. ( sarcasm galore lol).

[golfandfishing]

The players may not get away with being rude as in the past, but the fans get away with so much more. They hide behind the cameras, knowing the players won’t confront them for fear of the twitbookagram outrage machine. The social media “accountability” only works upstream - the party viewed as the societal lesser can get away with anything towards the greater. So a fan can do (almost) anything, but if the player does anything other than start a go fund me for the unruly fan the mob will call for their head.

 

> @Hankshank said:

> That gesture was pretty stupid, but the punishment is ridiculous. Remember some stars on the European tour in the 80´s and 90´s, I don't think I have to mention names. Those guys did maybe not give spectators that finger, but could be terribly rude to spectators without any kind of reprimands. A good thing with Social Media. You don't get away as easy with being rude as the guys were earlier.

 

 

[bladehunter]

> @Hankshank said:

> That gesture was pretty stupid, but the punishment is ridiculous. Remember some stars on the European tour in the 80´s and 90´s, I don't think I have to mention names. Those guys did maybe not give spectators that finger, but could be terribly rude to spectators without any kind of reprimands. A good thing with Social Media. You don't get away as easy with being rude as> @golfandfishing said:

> The players may not get away with being rude as in the past, but the fans get away with so much more. They hide behind the cameras, knowing the players won’t confront them for fear of the twitbookagram outrage machine. The social media “accountability” only works upstream - the party viewed as the societal lesser can get away with anything towards the greater. So a fan can do (almost) anything, but if the player does anything other than start a go fund me for the unruly fan the mob will call for their head.

>

> > @Hankshank said:

> > That gesture was pretty stupid, but the punishment is ridiculous. Remember some stars on the European tour in the 80´s and 90´s, I don't think I have to mention names. Those guys did maybe not give spectators that finger, but could be terribly rude to spectators without any kind of reprimands. A good thing with Social Media. You don't get away as easy with being rude as the guys were earlier.

>

>

 

Yes. People who hide behind social media and use it as a blackmail outlet are the issue. As in “ do something I dare you. And I’ll post it “. Social media as a whole is an evil thing. It doesn’t create a nicer pro. It just makes a lot of David sims.

[kolomoia]

These guys got banned for 2 years and reduce penalty later, just saying..

[wcbjr]

Ban the observer from events for 3 years, maybe the player for a tournament or two.

[ClarkGrswld4]

haha that badminton video and the guy in yellow running away like a little girl

[Hankshank]

> @golfandfishing said:

> The players may not get away with being rude as in the past, but the fans get away with so much more. They hide behind the cameras, knowing the players won’t confront them for fear of the twitbookagram outrage machine. The social media “accountability” only works upstream - the party viewed as the societal lesser can get away with anything towards the greater. So a fan can do (almost) anything, but if the player does anything other than start a go fund me for the unruly fan the mob will call for their head.

>

> > @Hankshank said:

> > That gesture was pretty stupid, but the punishment is ridiculous. Remember some stars on the European tour in the 80´s and 90´s, I don't think I have to mention names. Those guys did maybe not give spectators that finger, but could be terribly rude to spectators without any kind of reprimands. A good thing with Social Media. You don't get away as easy with being rude as the guys were earlier.

>

>

Of course those spectator idiots aint much better. Although, when being at the Scandinavian eu-tour events the relatively few time some idiot has showed off others in the crowd will normally react appropriately.

[AppAlum]

> @Socrates said:

> Based on that, I must have a lifetime ban from golf coming to me.

>

 

It’s in the mail.

[chigolfer1]

This seems sorta crazy. As others have said, huge culture difference. three years for flipping the bird???

[shanx]

I travel to Korea often, work for a Korean company.

 

Their athletes are held to the highest expectations and standards, as they are representatives of their home country. Same thing for celebrities. I am sure he will be admonished more harshly for his disrespectful gesture by his sponsors and in Korean media, which can be brutal. When you win in Korea, you are made a "god"; when you publicly embarrass yourself as a Korean, you are shamed. Koreans are very conservative, this action is seen as an extreme act of selfishness and a lack of personal control. It also depicts Koreans in a very bad way, embarrassing the country.

 

Surprised it wasn't a lifetime ban.

[chigolfer1]

> @shanx said:

> I travel to Korea often, work for a Korean company.

>

> Their athletes are held to the highest expectations and standards, as they are representatives of their home country. Same thing for celebrities. I am sure he will be admonished more harshly for his disrespectful gesture by his sponsors and in Korean media, which can be brutal. When you win in Korea, you are made a "god"; when you publicly embarrass yourself as a Korean, you are shamed. Koreans are very conservative, this action is seen as an extreme act of selfishness and a lack of personal control. It also depicts Koreans in a very bad way, embarrassing the country.

>

> Surprised it wasn't a lifetime ban.

 

Fair enough, thanks for the background. Based on the length of the suspension, had to figure this was the case.

[Murphy76]

> @shanx said:

> I travel to Korea often, work for a Korean company.

>

> Their athletes are held to the highest expectations and standards, as they are representatives of their home country. Same thing for celebrities. I am sure he will be admonished more harshly for his disrespectful gesture by his sponsors and in Korean media, which can be brutal. When you win in Korea, you are made a "god"; when you publicly embarrass yourself as a Korean, you are shamed. Koreans are very conservative, this action is seen as an extreme act of selfishness and a lack of personal control. It also depicts Koreans in a very bad way, embarrassing the country.

>

> Surprised it wasn't a lifetime ban.

 

 

This reminds me of something I read somewhere about if you (a celebrity) endorse a product in Korea, and the product is faulty, the celebrity is held liable/accountable.

 

In other words, if Jackie Chan endorses Wolf Cola, and Wolf Cola starts making people sick, Jackie Chan is somehow liable. Does this ring a bell with anyone?

[BiggErn]

> @chigolfer1 said:

> > @shanx said:

> > I travel to Korea often, work for a Korean company.

> >

> > Their athletes are held to the highest expectations and standards, as they are representatives of their home country. Same thing for celebrities. I am sure he will be admonished more harshly for his disrespectful gesture by his sponsors and in Korean media, which can be brutal. When you win in Korea, you are made a "god"; when you publicly embarrass yourself as a Korean, you are shamed. Koreans are very conservative, this action is seen as an extreme act of selfishness and a lack of personal control. It also depicts Koreans in a very bad way, embarrassing the country.

> >

> > Surprised it wasn't a lifetime ban.

>

> Fair enough, thanks for the background. Based on the length of the suspension, had to figure this was the case.

 

It’s not how the entire country operates. I mean they have legal prostitution, virtually no environmental standards, rampant counterfeiting, etc. I was stationed there, lived there for a year and a half, and traveled all around the country. People overall aren’t much different than here. Their tour may have strict standards but it’s not universal in the culture like some are making out.

[BNGL]

> @"Golf Scientist" said:

> He may be banned from the Korean Tour, but he should be able to play on other tours. Since he was so far up on the money list that may mean he has enough world ranking points to qualify for events in other countries on other tours.

 

Not necessarily. Korean tour isn’t that great (way better than any tour I’m playing on) so his world ranking (way better than mine ever was or possibly will be) probably isn’t anything special, but other federations and tours tend to review and respect a players ban from another officially recognized tour.

Key phrase is tend to. Not necessarily with every player/situation

 

[JonnyKrasnodar]

I agree with most people that it is very harsh for a hand gesture but it is refreshing to see a Tour take unprofessionalism to task.

 

A ban (30 days) for example for slow play would resolve that particular issue. Taking 3 minutes over a shot is unprofessional.

 

Anyway I'm off on a tangent.

[buckeyefl]

> @BiggErn said:

> > @buckeyefl said:

> > > @ClarkGrswld4 said:

> > > ****, this is a pretty harsh penalty. Sure he shouldn't have done it but three years?? I thought the Korean tour was based out of South Korea and not North Korea lol

> > >

> > > https://www.golfchannel.com/news/korean-tour-money-leader-bio-kim-suspended-3-years-obscene-gesture

> >

> > Massive cultural differences. Even so I was still a little surprised at the length of the suspension.

>

> It’s different to a degree but it’s not “massive” by any stretch.

 

That would depend on the person. I lived there and can say without a doubt that many people would find a massive difference and have massive culture shock massively.