Driver length 44" vs 45" F=MA

[mosesgolf]

Ok another driver length topic. If one were to take a 45 inch driver, cut to 44 inches and then add 12grams of weight to match the swing weight at 45" would there be any noticeable difference in length off the tee. Benefit would be increased accuracy plus minimal loss of distance "in theory."

Is the logic off? I bought a 1 inch shorter shaft plus additional weights to test this theory for my G410 LST. One inch shorter also means flatter lie angle and less likely to go left.

There are a couple videos on Youtube with folks seeing very little loss in distance (going from 45 to 44) due to more center strikes but makes no mention of adding weight to the head to match swingweights.

[chisag]

... In theory a heavier head or more mass will produce more distance, all things considered. I have found that most (certainly there are exceptions) will gain distance with a shorter shaft and heavier head. Most of the distance comes from center contact. DLIII said when he needed a BIG drive he slowed down his swing just a little and concentrated on perfect contact. For every 1/4" you miss the center you can lose 5-7 yards. So 1" on the toe and you can lose 20-28 yards as well as poor direction even with a good swing.

... Many years ago UST released a shaft that was way ahead of it's time. The I.T. or Inertial Transfer shaft was designed to be played at 44" with a D0 swing weight. It was around 100gms but heavily counter weighted so it could take advantage of a heavier head. Fred Couples used it for many years and said it was the longest combo he ever hit at that time. That said, since many OEM drivers are 45.5 to 46" most will want to go to 44.5 or 44.25 as opposed to 44". I play mine at 44.25" but choke up just a hair so effectively my driver is 44".

[ChaosTheory]

I think the formula for kinetic energy is applicable.

Ek = 1/2 M x V-squared. More velocity trumps more mass. This is my experience with drivers as well. Obviously contact affects smash factor so a given golfer might be longer with a shorter, heavier driver, or not. I'm longer with a lighter, longer driver.

[PR3CI5N]

I use my old Taylormade Fujikura Motore Speeder Tour Spec TP 6.3 Stiff shaft in my 9* Degree SIM driver. It plays about 44.5". I have much more control and I drive it 300 yards all day. I've tried several newer shafts on the marks such as Diamana, EvenFlow White, and HZRDUS SMOKE which all played 1"-1.5" longer. I had much less control with these shafts and the distance gap was no different.

[OspreyCI]

Good stuff. I just added 10 grams of lead tape to my 44.5” Sim Max D. Much better. More range time to be sure.

[nitram]

Moses, I've done what you're inquiring about for the last decade or so. You are right on target with what you want to do. I personally add lead tape to get the desired effect. Then remove it all, weigh it, and add the "weights" in the appropriate portions and add tape to fine tune a gram or 4.

As far as losing distance, its all about center face contact and/or smash factor. If your smash is 1.45 or less with the longer shaft, the shorter shaft theory should increase that for you and therefore your overall average should see a gain. My youngest son says my driver is more like a 7-Wood with a kettle bell. All I can tell you is it has worked for me and I am as long or longer as I've ever been.

Good luck to you Sir.

[OspreyCI]

@nitram always spot on. Good stuff sir.

[gsrjc]

I asked about this once to a club champion fitter because I was curious and he mentioned that shortening the driver would make the swing more upright and at least for my swing it wouldn’t have worked. So I’m curious folks think that is the same thought process.

[third-times-a-charm]

I just moved to a 44.5 driver and it’s great

[smbm2]

I'm with snowman. Length trumps mass. Or speed trumps mass. Now someone says I drive the ball 300 yards all day. 10 yards means little to you. But at 76 years 10 yards means every thing. I maybe can even reach a 390 or 400 yard hole with a solid drive and 3 wood. Most times I hit it pretty solid. My swing is good but not fast or powerful.

SMBM2

[Titleist_PT23]

I've always wondered whether the more success with a shorter driver is just a function of what people grew up with? I didn't play for 10-15 years and when I got back in I cut down all of the drivers I picked up to 44 inches, as it seemed the contact was better. However, after a while I switched to a 45 inches driver and don't think things are really much different (perfect shots go a little farther, dispersion isn't really different). My question is when people have swung a 44 inch driver for 10+ years of course they are going to make better contact in a fitting session with a shorter driver? But that doesn't mean it's better. Give it some time and I'd bet most can adjust/compensate.

I also question whether the average drive length on tour is still < 45 inches, as many famed articles suggest. 10 years ago probably. But I'd best that most of the kids playing today have all been swinging a 45+ inch driver since they had an adult like body frame/size.

[Tree Levino]

+45” drivers are evil things. Happily long and straight (ish) at 44.5. Play a heavier weight as well. I tested g410 LST with 3 wood shafts and got very good ball speeds. Thing was money at 43.5.

[Boricua Golf]

I've played 44.25/5" drivers for the past 20 years and everything seems to be just fine, I have tried the longer shafts but I tend to lose the accuracy, that said, we are all different, what works for me may not work for you, trial and error is what I did, and found out that at 44.25" (current setup) is where my happy medium is, not as long but much more accurate, I'll take 275-280 in the fairway everyday, good luck

[third-times-a-charm]

Oh I do want to add that I'm playing the 44.5 driver without any SW adjustments, essentially almost 6 SW points less than stock. To me, it feels great.

I brought my EF back up to D2 with some weight, and it didnt feel the same and the spin felt off.

YMMV

[Golf64]

IMO, no driver should be over 45''! Control and hitting the sweet spot wins every time. There is a reason the pros do it. On the 'Mass' subject, heavier means higher MOI. That is why Ping has one of the most forgiving drivers out there. Same with these new mallet putters, heavier heads, higher MOI.

[ThinkingPlus]

Since the relationship between angular velocity and swing speed is linear and somewhat proportional the club length, a reduction of 1" out of 45" would reduce club head speed by 1/45 all else being equal (at most). That would be a speed reduction of ~2.2%. At 100 MPH you would lose, at most, about 5 - 6 yards. Adding mass to the head would would mitigate this slightly. More center club strikes would mitigate it more. Everyone has a length sweet spot where they maximize ball speed. It could be 44", 44.5", 45" or even longer. Getting fit on a launch monitor is more than just optimizing spin/launch angle.

[NRJyzr]

 

On top of your point, we must also consider the point of diminishing returns with respect to swingspeed gains due to added length. Each golfer has a point at which their swingspeed is maximized, and any increase in length offers no improvement. In fact, you can see the speed decrease. This point is completely different with everyone.

There's a similar point related to weight, but that's fodder for another thread.

Using myself as an example, my max speed point appears to be considerably shorter than many/most. I've tested 3mph higher at 43" and steel or 100g graphite than I did at 44.25" and 90g graphite. 45" doesn't do anything for me, either.

It's another variable to consider

[marmaduk]

Bryson...?

[Joelsim]

Loads of pros play with a shorter driver.

I do too, and I’m hitting it further than I hit one that’s longer.

[uglande]

Definitely shorter is better for 90 percent of us. Average length on tour is 44.50.

But one thing I have found is that you don't need to add that much weight to the head to offset the shorter shaft. If you do what you propose, adding 12 grams, I think you will find that it feels very heavy, even if it hits the right swing weight number. I have done this several times and have always found that to be the case.

[C6 Snowboarder]

I have been playing a 48" long drivers for 4 years now -- cant stand a short shaft driver now .. but at 73 yr old -- no longer have the high swing speed so have to make up for it with a good tempo and long shafts. hit fairways 95% of the time and most of those are 10 yards of center.

interesting note here: Ping will make a driver to 48" and Taylormade stops at about 46.5" .

[chisag]

 

... Good point SMBM2. It is not a cut and dried formula and there are a ton of variables. Many actually swing a shorter driver faster than a longer driver, something NRJyzr referenced above. And as we have said over and over again, center contact produces longer and straighter than shaft length hit only 1/2" off center every time. That said, one area that seems to be advantageous is older golfers with slower swing speeds. Swinging 85 mph and under with years of experience, some seniors can hit the center with a 46" driver just as well as a 44" driver. Again, referencing DLIII's dad had him do a driver drill where he had to hit 10 shots with his persimmon driver 100 yds only while taking a full swing. He had to hit those 100 shots relatively straight before moving to 150, then 200, 250, 275, 300 and finally 350. It was easy for Davis to hit the center at slower swing speeds and this drill would alert him to any flaws creeping into his swing. At 300 yds he began missing the center some and hitting off line drives. But at 350 he missed quite a bit hitting one monster driver straight and true followed by a wild hook.

... I think everyone should experiment with a shorter than 45" driver to see if their distance and direction improves. I had so many students do this and they were almost always surprised they hit it farther and straighter. Of course I had some older students that hit a longer shaft farther as well as some higher swing speed players that just had excellent technique and/or great hand eye coordination. Like everything in golf there is no one way that works the same for everyone but my experience always has been the majority will hit a shorter than standard driver longer and straighter. The big question is how much shorter than the 45.5-46" works best for any given individual and experimenting is the only way to find out. A mistake I see many make is experimenting at the range where they can groove their driver or even over come a swing flaw by making adjustments. Add to that balls hit with a driver on the range don't count, which frees you up to take your best uninhibited swings. This is radically different than dealing with OB, water, traps, dog legs and forced caries where an errant shot can cost you strokes so those "free and uninhibited" swings with a 45.5-46" driver you took at the range will not be the same as playing a round for score. This is where you will really find out if a shorter driver length is longer and straighter for your swing.

[GoGoErky]

Saw on miketxg ig story that most of the driver fittings they do are 45”. I’ve had success with 45.25 up to 46”

[Pearson10M]

Good reading on a lot of the posts. Was thinking of ordering a new Cobra F9 to replace my Cobra Fly Z+. My Z+ has a stiff shaft and was looking for a less stiff shaft as my swing speed has dropped and the Fly Z+ is showing it's age and the F9 is now almost half priced ($249)

I am 6' 5" with long arms and have +1.0 inch on my iron shafts. Should I get a +1.0 on the driver shaft to match?

[PR3CI5N]

Go with a playing length of 44.5”. You won’t lose any distance and you’ll have more control. You might even pickup a few yards.

[uglande]

I am also 6'5" and would say just the opposite. We have longer arms and longer arc. The extra shaft length isn't necessary and will just lead to more off-center strikes.

[cwilk]

I’m not sure that tour average is accurate now. Chris Trott of Taylormade posts clubs specs on his IG account and I don’t believe any TM player’s specs he’s shared is playing a driver under 45”. Most are 45.5” with DJ at 45.75”.

Also, Ping has all of their tour player specs on their website and they are about 50/50 on either side of 45”.

[Titleist_PT23]

My gut reaction is the same on tour average. I'd bet a lot at even money that it's not less than 45 inches anymore. There's very few people on tour anymore that started with a 43.5 - 44.0 inch driver.

And I don't doubt that shorter produces better for some people. Strike trumps all. But I also think there is a huge familiarity bias in swinging what you are accustomed to. If people played a longer driver for a season vs a short fitting session, I'd bet the difference wouldn't be as noticeable.

[Howard_Jones]

Please DROP that silly rule of thumb for SW, forget you ever heard about it, and its never a good idea to just reset the original SW.

Back to the question: 1 inch shorter (in a robot), is 2 mph slower and 2 mph with max PTR of 1.5 = 3 mph ball speed, each of average 2 yards carry = 6 as drop.

Actual reset of SW after shortening a 45" to 44" = 9.9 grams, and 9.9 grams added on a 202 grams head = 2.65 yards. (lets use 2.5)

Conclusion = Actual loss of distance in a robot = 3.5 yards at 1 inch shorter

 

Parameters used was 100 mph center of the face club speed, 202 grams head, 7* as Spin loft

Club speed - 2%

Head weight + 5%

So as theory, we loose 1.75 yards for each 0.5" we go shorter....most GAIN distance due to improved PTR, some players will even see a higher CS and BS after going shorter, so this is strictly theory and numbers on the paper like it would work in a robot.

[uglande]

Jonathan Wall, Golf Magazine's equipment editor, said in December the tour average was 44.75. We are splitting hairs, but I think it's a rare PGA player who is using an off-the-shelf length of 45.75 or 45.50, and certainly most average swingers would do better (overall performance) with something shorter. Ian at TXG says nearly all of their AM driver fittings are in 45 inch or shorter lengths.