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Game Improvement Irons vs. Player's Irons


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On 9/4/2020 at 6:56 PM, MtlJeff said:

 

I said in the other thread but i feel like a lot of the bad things attributed to GIs or SGI's are not really that bad and/or are exaggerated. I've used players clubs enough to know that i can use them and shoot relatively the same scores, so i have nothing against them. I just almost feel like you are arguing GI clubs are worse because your mishits with them are better. That is kind of amusing right? Like extra ballspeed on misses is a bad thing. I said in the other thread that if a mishit goes further than a typical mishit, that is almost always a positive thing, at least to me. I've never experienced mishits that go further than simply well struck balls...that is what i was saying in the other thread, that a well struck ball for me will always go further than a mishit, so why should care that a mishit goes further, it's almost always positive if it does

 

Please understand that i like you and your posting, so i am not trying to be combative. I just have used Ping G Series for like 5 years of my golfing life and have really never had issues, so it's hard for me to understand the seemingly major issues of other golfers with GI's...maybe it is just my swing

 

Anyway, i really like my G410's, i don't track my GIRs religiously but if i did i would bet that this year i broke my personal record. If i could make a putt over 4 feet i'd probably have been a +1 or +2 for the midsummer months. I just don't understand why a 9-10 index couldn't play GI's or SGI's to his best potential. But frankly at this point i just want people to be happy with their choices as life is too short, and blades are beautiful to look at

 

Anyway have a great weekend dude

 

 

 

 

It is about spin. I'm rotating three sets right now: 718 MBs, 718 CBs, and Hogan PTx. None are really GI, though the Hogans are the closest. The Hogans do the best job of retaining ball speed on mishits. The CBs do the best job of consistent spin across the face -- and that is the difference for me. With a CB 7 iron, I am going to get 6500-7000 rpm and 160-165 on everything except a complete chunk. On a slight mishit, I lose both ballspeed and spin - so I retain decent carry distance. 

 

With the PTx, I get 6300-6500 and 167-170 most of the time, but occasionally get 4500 -- loosing a 180 yard bomb.  A slight mishit with the Hogans can absolutely go farther than a center strike because the center hit spins and the slightly high/low strike doesn't.

 

This is born out by my sense on the golf course, and by data on an outdoor launch monitor. It is not massive differences, but with my swing (~110 driver) the variance on players clubs is lower than "more forgiving" irons. I am assuming this effect would be magnified by a true GI.

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Here we go with the whole "concentrate more" deal. Were you not trying before?

Use whatever you are comfortable with,  but GI irons won't save a swing that isn't working, they can only do so much   Don't worry about accuracy, if people like myself and many others can p

I said in the other thread but i feel like a lot of the bad things attributed to GIs or SGI's are not really that bad and/or are exaggerated. I've used players clubs enough to know that i can use them

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3 minutes ago, COL_B said:

 

It is about spin. I'm rotating three sets right now: 718 MBs, 718 CBs, and Hogan PTx. None are really GI, though the Hogans are the closest. The Hogans do the best job of retaining ball speed on mishits. The CBs do the best job of consistent spin across the face -- and that is the difference for me. With a CB 7 iron, I am going to get 6500-7000 rpm and 160-165 on everything except a complete chunk. On a slight mishit, I lose both ballspeed and spin - so I retain decent carry distance. 

 

With the PTx, I get 6300-6500 and 167-170 most of the time, but occasionally get 4500 -- loosing a 180 yard bomb.  A slight mishit with the Hogans can absolutely go farther than a center strike because the center hit spins and the slightly high/low strike doesn't.

 

This is born out by my sense on the golf course, and by data on an outdoor launch monitor. It is not massive differences, but with my swing (~110 driver) the variance on players clubs is lower than "more forgiving" irons. I am assuming this affect would be magnified by a true GI.

 

Goes to show you how different everyone responds to different heads/shafts and how different everyone's swings are.

 

Just like @MtlJeff, I have NEVER had a mishit go farther than a solidly struck shot with any iron (outside of cart path help or a downslope on rock hard fairways).  Have I seen iron knucklers?  You know those shots with absolutely no spin that fly forever.  Sure, but that's not from a mishit, but have seen them.  One morning in particular stands out.  It was wet from overnight rain, my 5 iron was full of dirt, and I didn't clean the grooves.  I was in the first cut of rough and hit a shot that came out like a rocket that flew the green.  I cleaned the 5 iron, dropped another ball right next to it and hit it on the back of the green.  Both shots were a tad toe side(my miss in general) but the mis-hit didn't cause the knuckler, the water between the face and ball that was not channeled out because the grooves were full of dirt caused it.

 

I would love to know what are the design characteristics from the PTX that causes a shot mishit to come out with less spin.  I know the Speedball or rocketballz irons had an issue a bit above the sweetspot that caused flier type shots(so technically a mis hit that would fly farther) but that is the only iron I have ever heard of that was a known issue.  TM even said it, and they fixed it on all their later iron offerings.  These irons have the flexible face technology, so that it could happen unless designs are making sure it doesn't makes sense to me.  

 

The PTX is multi material forging, with the face being a different material than the body, and one assumes there is some kind of filler material, or maybe not and the tungsten and titanium in the heads are allowing the face to flex too much in certain spots?  Not sure as I am not club designer, but that would be my guess.  So I would assume that based on your findings the PTX has a similar issue to the Rocketballz or speedballz irons.  I know for a fact based on all the time I spent on the Trackman and rounds I played with the P790's that the flier spot is not there.   

 

Are there people who shouldn't play these type of irons?  Absolutely, if you are borderline on spin with your irons already and go to a club that lowers spin across the board(most of the flexible face designs do) then you shouldn't play them.  If your 7 iron spins currently at 6000, and you go to flexible face that spins lets say 5500 or less, then a shot from the first cut, that normally cuts spin by 700 drops your old iron to 5300 and maybe stays on the back of the green or back edge.  Your new irons now fly even farther, and spin less so hit the back of the green and bounce over a good bit.  These players are the ones that complain about the mysterious hot spots, the ones that have no true understanding of how and why grooves work and the mechanics behind them.  Grooves don't make spin, grooves stop things from robbing your spin(water and grass), a flat faced wedge from the middle of the fairway will spin just as much as a grooved wedge, this has been proven.

 

When a new company releases it's first flexible face iron they could run into the same issues as TM did with their first irons.  I would imagine all of the bigger companies after seeing the issue at TM would invest the money to make sure they do not have the same issue.  Smaller companies with less R&D might miss it.  However in general it is people playing irons that do not suit them that have no clue about the mechanics of the golf swing, how grooves, grass, and water work at contact that have the mysterious hot spot.

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1 hour ago, COL_B said:

 

It is about spin. I'm rotating three sets right now: 718 MBs, 718 CBs, and Hogan PTx. None are really GI, though the Hogans are the closest. The Hogans do the best job of retaining ball speed on mishits. The CBs do the best job of consistent spin across the face -- and that is the difference for me. With a CB 7 iron, I am going to get 6500-7000 rpm and 160-165 on everything except a complete chunk. On a slight mishit, I lose both ballspeed and spin - so I retain decent carry distance. 

 

With the PTx, I get 6300-6500 and 167-170 most of the time, but occasionally get 4500 -- loosing a 180 yard bomb.  A slight mishit with the Hogans can absolutely go farther than a center strike because the center hit spins and the slightly high/low strike doesn't.

 

This is born out by my sense on the golf course, and by data on an outdoor launch monitor. It is not massive differences, but with my swing (~110 driver) the variance on players clubs is lower than "more forgiving" irons. I am assuming this effect would be magnified by a true GI.

 

One thing i would say though is that the difference between 170yds and 180yds is 6% , i was discussing this in the other thread but in the real world i have not had any real problems with these situations. Various factors affect every shot, gusts of wind, elevation changes, etc. Outside of pros,  variance even on good swings is still going to be a matter of multiple yards for most people (with any iron set, just because you are not a robot even as a low index)

 

I can hit the ball perfectly and have it go 6-7 yards further than i think just because i misjudged the wind. 

 

There are many instances where a 10yd boost would help you too, carrying over water for example versus dropping in. But all in all i think 5-6% extra flight on outlier shots is something many people can live with. That's the type of variance you can get on any shot due to factors i've mentioned 

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This has been a great read so far.  I'm a +1 handicap currently and have 3 sets I'm trying to decide against (MP20 mbs, T100 and Apex 19 combos).  I've shot low rounds with each set and have always fought a bias with Titleist product.  My wife who is also a + handicap has always been in my ear about two things.  1. Why always play Titleist vs what works best in each part of the bag and 2. Why do you insist on playing blades or players irons vs really allowing a GI club a chance.  I really enjoyed your comments @driveandputtmachine as I can relate to your thoughts and it helps to hear a really good player say "its okay to play GI irons if they work".  I love the looks of blades, but being in my late 30s working and a father I can't say that I can consistently hit an mb where shots feel buttery.  My typical miss is thin and my short game is still good so I can still score well, but in reality I just feel like a hit a but of mishits all day with the feedback you get from an mb.  I have given the Apex combos an honest go over the past couple months and have to say, if I can get over not having the classic blade or Titleist iron look in my bag, they are just better for me.  The short irons are still the pros and allow me to do whatever I want with shots and the long irons are just consistent.  I can still feel when I miss the center slightly but it just isn't as harsh feeling as blades and over the course of the round its nice to not to have half my shots still ringing in my hands.  At the end of the day it doesn't matter what category the iron is, if you shot good scores consistently your buddies will care more about always paying up vs what you have in your bag.  Take advantage of the technology if it makes you enjoy the game more.  If you enjoy the look and feel of blades and that is what gets you excited go for it.  I will for sure keep a set of older blades (and persimmons) around for the times I really just want to play that stuff.

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For that former player struggling with the switch to a GI iton the best choice is a mixed set. Players in the short irons and GI in the upper end. Im sure the longer your shots get the more shots you are losing than you did years ago. But those short shots that really require control is where you still shine. So this is right where a mixed set can help out the most. So it helps your ego by still seeing those sexy clubs in the bag. 

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20 minutes ago, IUHoosierMatt said:

This has been a great read so far.  I'm a +1 handicap currently and have 3 sets I'm trying to decide against (MP20 mbs, T100 and Apex 19 combos).  I've shot low rounds with each set and have always fought a bias with Titleist product.  My wife who is also a + handicap has always been in my ear about two things.  1. Why always play Titleist vs what works best in each part of the bag and 2. Why do you insist on playing blades or players irons vs really allowing a GI club a chance.  I really enjoyed your comments @driveandputtmachine as I can relate to your thoughts and it helps to hear a really good player say "its okay to play GI irons if they work".  I love the looks of blades, but being in my late 30s working and a father I can't say that I can consistently hit an mb where shots feel buttery.  My typical miss is thin and my short game is still good so I can still score well, but in reality I just feel like a hit a but of mishits all day with the feedback you get from an mb.  I have given the Apex combos an honest go over the past couple months and have to say, if I can get over not having the classic blade or Titleist iron look in my bag, they are just better for me.  The short irons are still the pros and allow me to do whatever I want with shots and the long irons are just consistent.  I can still feel when I miss the center slightly but it just isn't as harsh feeling as blades and over the course of the round its nice to not to have half my shots still ringing in my hands.  At the end of the day it doesn't matter what category the iron is, if you shot good scores consistently your buddies will care more about always paying up vs what you have in your bag.  Take advantage of the technology if it makes you enjoy the game more.  If you enjoy the look and feel of blades and that is what gets you excited go for it.  I will for sure keep a set of older blades (and persimmons) around for the times I really just want to play that stuff.

 

I figured out a few years back that I like the way a low number on the scorecard looks a lot more than I like the way MB's look in my bag, or even a full Players set for that matter.  At 44, I am not going to suddenly just get better than I was in College.  It is just not gonna happen.  However, I can think my way around a golf course better now, and I don't let me ego get in the way.  So I have no doubt I can get back to scratch or better (where I was before my wrist surgery).  I do not hit SGI wedges well, the look does something to me toe balls for days.  The CB2's from Cleveland look great sitting them down and I hit them well and love the V sole.  So I am back, gonna go players CB in the PW and 9 iron (maybe outside chance at the 8 iron) and something a bit more forgiving to the top of my irons.  Then I may very well end up with a 5 wood and a hybrid.

 

Winning money in a Nassau or skins game or any game where my buddies either Venmo or hand me cash with more forgiving irons is so much sexier than a set of shiny blades, where I will hand them my money.

 

If I could stomach playing Titleist anything I would have a hard time not putting the T100's in the bag.  Granted the Apex combo set is nice, but the T100 in the long irons are way more forgiving than I thought they would be when I tried them.  I have a long standing issue with playing Titleist gear(super long story) and if my trial into the DTC SUB 70's doesn't pan out the T100's are my next look.

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On 9/2/2020 at 9:16 PM, DaveLeeNC said:

Back when I was young (like early 60's) my index was a solid 5'ish in good weather. I mostly played 'players irons' - either WIshon 560MC or a WIshon MB/CB forged mix. These days I am older (wrong side of 70) and may or may not see another single digit index (currently 10.6). 

 

My ballstriking is not what it used to be, but is not really a disaster right now either. But I was considering going to 'full blown GI irons' as an experiment. Are GI irons really that much less controllable? I have hit a few at the range and that was not obvious to me, but I am guessing that my reaction might be different after a couple of rounds.

 

I can't be the only guy who has gone down that path, so I was curious about experiences in this regard - thanks. 

 

dave

I have never been and never will be anything close to a 5hcp. So maybe this isn't helpful.

 

When I was a beginner I was trying to decide between TItleist DCI and Big Bertha irons for my first "real" clubs (after a cheap set I picked up before my first-ever round of golf). My teaching pro told me if I liked the DCI irons (which I did) that they would work fine but I could almost certainly save a couple strokes a round with something max-forgiveness (at the time) like the Callaways. 

 

Over the course of nearly three decades I've gone back and forth and I tend to keep a lot of stats about my golf. As far as I can tell, he nailed it. For the last few years I've been able to use Strokes Gained concepts to nail down improvements or regressions in my iron game specifically and I'll be darned but every time I've changed from one type of clubs (players vs. GI) to another it works out to around 1.5-2.0 strokes. My most recent change from Ping G's to Titleist 718 AP2 appeared to cost me around 1.7 strokes. 

 

Who knows what that number is for you. Maybe a low-marker will find his scoring is less sensitive to iron forgiveness. But you may well be able to "buy" a stroke or so on your index by getting the most forgiving clubs you can stand to look at. 

 

P.S. and BTW the last time I checked my teaching-pro buddy who gave me that advice many years ago was using a set of Callaway Epic irons. 

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1 hour ago, driveandputtmachine said:

 

I do not hit SGI wedges well, the look does something to me toe balls for days. 

 

 

This resonates with me.  There's something visual about larger clubheads that does the same thing for me.  Long irons, mid irons, short irons, all the same.

 

I played Eye2+ for 12 months several years ago.  Took me two months to get to the point where I could stop hitting them on the toe.

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5 hours ago, MtlJeff said:

 

One thing i would say though is that the difference between 170yds and 180yds is 6% , i was discussing this in the other thread but in the real world i have not had any real problems with these situations. Various factors affect every shot, gusts of wind, elevation changes, etc. Outside of pros,  variance even on good swings is still going to be a matter of multiple yards for most people (with any iron set, just because you are not a robot even as a low index)

 

I can hit the ball perfectly and have it go 6-7 yards further than i think just because i misjudged the wind. 

 

There are many instances where a 10yd boost would help you too, carrying over water for example versus dropping in. But all in all i think 5-6% extra flight on outlier shots is something many people can live with. That's the type of variance you can get on any shot due to factors i've mentioned 

True, but my "average" variance with the Hogan is 6.5 yards. With the CB it is 3.5, and with the MB it is 4.8.  The dispersion there is not bad, it just isn't as good for me. With someone with a different AoA and less clubhead speed, the results could be very different.

 

The Hogan is a great iron -- it just has more dispersion with my swing than the CB.  And the data suggests it is about spin.

 

I disagree with driveandputtmachine that mishits can't outfly well struck shots -- at least when you are talking about lofts at 7i and higher. We've all skulled approaches. And on some irons, the slightly high strike doesn't spin as much, but comes off with the same ball speed.

 

Worth mentioning the PTx is 1* stronger, so that will account for some differences.

 

 

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16 minutes ago, COL_B said:

True, but my "average" variance with the Hogan is 6.5 yards. With the CB it is 3.5, and with the MB it is 4.8.  The dispersion there is not bad, it just isn't as good for me. With someone with a different AoA and less clubhead speed, the results could be very different.

 

The Hogan is a great iron -- it just has more dispersion with my swing than the CB.  And the data suggests it is about spin.

 

I disagree with driveandputtmachine that mishits can't outfly well struck shots -- at least when you are talking about lofts at 7i and higher. We've all skulled approaches. And on some irons, the slightly high strike doesn't spin as much, but comes off with the same ball speed.

 

Worth mentioning the PTx is 1* stronger, so that will account for some differences.

 

 

 

You're right...physics doesn’t go away and can’t be designed out.

 

If a slight mishit high on the face retains nearly all of the ball speed but imparts less spin, a knuckleball is the result. The majority of people wouldn’t recognise the ‘flyer’ as the ‘feel’ from these types of clubs is muted anyway...to them it just feels like a half decent shot and is therefore not an issue. Typically, the ‘high on the face’ contact is the result of a slightly fat shot so when it finishes somewhere near target, it’s proof of the forgiving nature of the club.

 

I’m not joking, I’ve played for years with a couple of guys who both play Ping G10s, who both play to a genuine 10 handicap who both hit practically every iron shot slightly fat and high on the face and don’t even know that they’re doing it.

 

I will say that there is absolutely nothing wrong in this. They are consistent and score reasonably well...there are no pictures on a scorecard...and there are millions of ways of playing this daft game...stick with what works best.

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back in the day I read an article about how KJ Choi was gaming Ping G10 irons (at Augusta IIRC) and also Lee Westwood used them a few times. At the time I was ~8 handicap and dumped my Titleist TP2's for a full set of Ping G10's with KBS xstiff tour. I went from shooting anywhere from 78-85 to consistently 72-75's. 

Night and day difference, on a misshit I would still be on the green instead of chiping to a difficult pin and inevitably 3 putting 😱. I could still shape the ball perfectly fine, if I wanted to hit a 30 yard fade or draw...no issue. There was only one drawback, which was punching out. 4 iron is the lowest iron I carried and trying to keep the ball low with that was really tough, particularly playing in the midwest where your ball can find its way into some pine trees. 

 

I'll never play anything but a GI iron ever again. 

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30 minutes ago, mahonie said:

 

You're right...physics doesn’t go away and can’t be designed out.

 

If a slight mishit high on the face retains nearly all of the ball speed but imparts less spin, a knuckleball is the result. The majority of people wouldn’t recognise the ‘flyer’ as the ‘feel’ from these types of clubs is muted anyway...to them it just feels like a half decent shot and is therefore not an issue. Typically, the ‘high on the face’ contact is the result of a slightly fat shot so when it finishes somewhere near target, it’s proof of the forgiving nature of the club.

 

I’m not joking, I’ve played for years with a couple of guys who both play Ping G10s, who both play to a genuine 10 handicap who both hit practically every iron shot slightly fat and high on the face and don’t even know that they’re doing it.

 

I will say that there is absolutely nothing wrong in this. They are consistent and score reasonably well...there are no pictures on a scorecard...and there are millions of ways of playing this daft game...stick with what works best.

 

I will say this just to add to the discussion, not bragging or anything just genuinely to add more info to the posts i've been making, that i play off a 0-1 index and have been as low as +0.5 using Ping G410's. I only say this to mention that when i say i haven't had issues with distance control, it's not because i don't recognize issues because my striking is inconsistent, it's just because i feel like i haven't had those issues

 

Anyway, i'm not refuting or being combative just wanted to add that since handicap is no longer listed here. I do believe that it's relevant to discussions sometimes because i agree with Mahoney that sometimes people don't know the difference between 2 strikes

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23 minutes ago, Daytona said:

back in the day I read an article about how KJ Choi was gaming Ping G10 irons (at Augusta IIRC) and also Lee Westwood used them a few times. At the time I was ~8 handicap and dumped my Titleist TP2's for a full set of Ping G10's with KBS xstiff tour. I went from shooting anywhere from 78-85 to consistently 72-75's. 

Night and day difference, on a misshit I would still be on the green instead of chiping to a difficult pin and inevitably 3 putting 😱. I could still shape the ball perfectly fine, if I wanted to hit a 30 yard fade or draw...no issue. There was only one drawback, which was punching out. 4 iron is the lowest iron I carried and trying to keep the ball low with that was really tough, particularly playing in the midwest where your ball can find its way into some pine trees. 

 

I'll never play anything but a GI iron ever again. 

Being able to punch and flight the ball lower is definitely a factor in me not sticking with GI clubs. I tend to struggle with keeping my hands ahead on mishits and some of the GI clubs I've tested go 10-12y higher than I'd like. If I'm short of a green, that's why, and the clubs I use telegraph that to me by being notably higher launch on those types of misses - the GI irons don't do much for flipping.

 

If I were somebody who struggled more with distance variance on regular, non-flippy hits and had a lower ball flight, I'd probably use a small GI club rather than a player cavity or blade. Fire reference, I'm formerly a 6 and probably a 10 this season because I have two kids 13mo apart in age and can't get out to the course as often as I'd like. Looking to get a simulator set up this winter.

 

People pay too much attention to other people's games and equipment than they should, IMO. I've only talked to playing partners about gear as a point of interest and discussion, but we've never judged anybody for it. You can shoot even par with pretty much anything if you have the skills and it's not horribly mis-sized, so use what works for you and makes you happy.

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2 hours ago, NRJyzr said:

 

 

This resonates with me.  There's something visual about larger clubheads that does the same thing for me.  Long irons, mid irons, short irons, all the same.

 

I played Eye2+ for 12 months several years ago.  Took me two months to get to the point where I could stop hitting them on the toe.

I wish I knew why the mid to short irons bother me with larger iron heads.  With long irons I do not seem to have nearly the issue, but it does happen sometimes.  My miss has always been towards to the toe(I have never shanked a ball)  The larger heads scream to me to hit it further on the toe for some strange reason.  

  • Driver - Ping G410 LST on HZRDOUS Yellow
  • 3 Wood - TM M5 (15*) on HZRDOUS Yellow or Ping G410 (14.5*) on HZRDOUS yellow
  • Hybrid - Ping G400 17* on Tour 85. ************* Member Tester TE Exotics Pro 17* on Tensei AV silver ****************
  • Irons - SUB70 testing ongoing
  • Wedges - Cleveland 50 and 54 CBX2 and RTX4 @ 58 and 62
  • Putters -  Sunset Beach Ocracoke or  Mannkrafted MA/66
  • Ball - Srixon Z Star XV
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‘Grew up’ playing Hogan Apex PCs, Hogan 99s, Nike blades, Nike VRPro combos...got down to a 3 Several years ago..but I hit it a lot further then...and played more...transitioned into a set of TM 790s this summer and when I finally got the correct shaft in them the transition was sealed...I still like spending time at the range with an old blade but the 790s offer so much more forgiveness...still not scoring like I want to but that’s a sloppy hole or two but that’s between my ears...

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I blend 770s with 790s in the 5/6 for the added forgiveness on mis-hits to help by a few yards of carry, after that I love my hybrids. I am a 5 on my home course, I think if myself as more of a 7-8 realistically. 

 

Met a fellow this week I am playing with in a Member Guest, he has a SS 115+, is a 1.8 trending down and his bag is basically Mavrik irons and a few gap wedges. 

 

Yes I am doing it wrong, but the 790s came out 2 weeks after I bought the 770s. No regrets as they are lovely irons but blending forgiveness into your bag as you go above 150y carry is a winning formula for lowering your distance to pin over time, and why I added the 5/6. I should probably add a 7 as well. 

 

No question about that for all us hacks. 🙂

 

 

Edited by bvanlieu
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I shared this in another thread but several years ago when playing with my dad, I played his G15’s for the round. I hit them very high and dead straight. 
 

I haven’t particularly cared for the feel of G410’s or P790’s when I’ve hit them but that’s only been with range rocks and ill fitting shaft. I’m a little different as in I look at the short irons in G410’s and think I could play those put the longer irons is where I find the view a little difficult. I’d love to be able to take a full set of G425, etc for about 3 rounds on my home course.
 

I currently play MP-18SC’s. Feel great, my misses are mostly short and not huge left or right misses. Game Improvement May very well help the mishit that falls short. I like the blended set idea...P790/770 or similar. 

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Unfortunately, as with most things golf, there isn't one right answer.  It takes time and experimentation to find what works for you. For instance, I 100% believe that modern GI/SGI clubs are longer, more forgiving, and easier to get up into the air than muscle backs and players cavities. However, they don't really work well for my swing. My natural delivery results in fairly high launch and relatively low spin. This is great for distance off the tee, but can lead to inconsistencies with the irons. GI clubs tend to be designed to get the ball up quick and with low spin, further exacerbating my natural launch conditions. As a result, I have trouble getting consistent distances with and tend towards a multi-directional miss with GI clubs. The higher spin rates and CG from a "players" club helps me be more consistent with my good shots and creates a mostly one way miss (short right).

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Mizuno MPH4 2 iron - DG x100

Mizuno MP68 3-PW - KBS Tour 130x

Vokey SM7 56*M, 55* & 58*L, 60* - KBS Tour 130x

Scotty Cameron Newport 2 Mid Slant

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I tried to go GI about 5 - 6 years ago.  (Im a 6-7 capper BTW).  

 

My scores were no different.  I didn't hit any more, or any less, GIR, so my scores don't change.  

Driver: Ping G25
16.5° fairway:  Ping G25
23° hybrid:  Ping G25

5i - 9i:  Mizuno MP64
Wedges:  Vokey SM7 46.10  Vokey SM4 54.14 / 58.09
Putter: The Wilson 8802 (vintage model)
Ball: Titleist Pro v1x / Pro v1
Bag: Original Jones Golf Bag (green)

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On 9/10/2020 at 5:31 AM, EDT501 said:

Unfortunately, as with most things golf, there isn't one right answer.  It takes time and experimentation to find what works for you. For instance, I 100% believe that modern GI/SGI clubs are longer, more forgiving, and easier to get up into the air than muscle backs and players cavities. However, they don't really work well for my swing. My natural delivery results in fairly high launch and relatively low spin. This is great for distance off the tee, but can lead to inconsistencies with the irons. GI clubs tend to be designed to get the ball up quick and with low spin, further exacerbating my natural launch conditions. As a result, I have trouble getting consistent distances with and tend towards a multi-directional miss with GI clubs. The higher spin rates and CG from a "players" club helps me be more consistent with my good shots and creates a mostly one way miss (short right).

This was exactly my long winded answer from the first page.

 

It just depends on the player and what plays best to their strengths/weakness  

 

Last but not least,  their pride/ego.  I admit,  that is partially my choice as well. I shoot high and low scores, so I might as play what I like

 

Here is an Ego point though.

 

Same Course 2 weeks in a row, alternated between AP2's and MB's

 

AP2s - Bad day shot 91, (lost ball, pace of play, drop, 2 stroke penalty ) 6 GIR, 36 putts (6 doubles and 2 triples, 1 birdie)   

Cobra MB's - rough holes but ok play, 84 (4 strokes of penalties, 2 lost ball 2 separate holes)  5 GIR, 29 putts ( 2 triples, mentioned 2 stroke penalty these were the holes,  3 birdies)


Ok so low GIR, (windy) 

Putting 36 with the AP2, vs 29 with the MBs, this likely indicates proximity no?  father away from hole, more putts, closer to hole less puts?

Specified Score, 6 doubles, 2 triples 1 birdie, meaning consistency or accuracy of second shot to hole,  Many of the AP2 shots were  farther resulted in less optimal up and downs

vs 2 triples and 3 birdies, indicates proximity likely closer with the MB's or the misses where in better positions to scramble?

 

 

Now is this saying the MBs are better? HECK no,  it just means that the tendencies of my personal game seem to gravitate and play better with the MBs.

 

 

I can say I have played quite a bit with both sets. So I will be as honest and unbiased that I am not fully biased to one set....But it just seems specifically set to set, miss to miss, one seemingly has an edge.

 

last point, IF the GI's provided me with a greater edge and scored better would I play them exclusively ABSOLUTELY!!! NO DOUBT... so I am not so prideful or stubborn not to switch if and when appropriate.  

 

 

Edited by Exactice808

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Scotty Newport 2 33"

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You're not alone.  There are plenty of guys that have went from mid single digit to double-digit and sought out GI irons that make the game easier.  I have a few friends like that, nothing wrong with that.  All depends on what you have in the tank and if your golf goal has changed. 

 

I am on the wrong side of 70, too, but still think I have 3/4 tank and hoping next year to play in a Sr Open Championship qualifying, Super Senior category. 🤪  I gotta have a goal, regardless even if I can't get back to a 2 min index.

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On 9/11/2020 at 3:23 PM, Pepperturbo said:

You're not alone.  There are plenty of guys that have went from mid single digit to double-digit and sought out GI irons that make the game easier.  I have a few friends like that, nothing wrong with that.  All depends on what you have in the tank and if your golf goal has changed. 

 

I am on the wrong side of 70, too, but still think I have 3/4 tank and hoping next year to play in a Sr Open Championship qualifying, Super Senior category. 🤪  I gotta have a goal, regardless even if I can't get back to a 2 min index.

 

Best of luck to you Pepper, have always enjoyed your posts over the years.  Hope you get it done!

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Callaway Mavrik Max 9 w/Hzrdus Smoke Black 80
Ping G410 LST 13 w/Ping Tour 75
Ping G400 Crossover 20 w/KBS Tour Prototype 85
Ping G410 4-SW w/S300
Ping Glide 3.0 Eye2 60 w/S300

Odyssey O-Works Red Tank #7

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I have played both, and never saw a real appreciable difference in my game. Now, the I think the main difference is the lofts of GI irons are quite a bit stronger than player's irons. 

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1 hour ago, Sean2 said:

I have played both, and never saw a real appreciable difference in my game. Now, the I think the main difference is the lofts of GI irons are quite a bit stronger than player's irons. 

I’m the same. My score with any category of iron always tend to hover around 78-83. The sharpness of my around the green short game and putting make more of an impact than playing a GI or player distance or blade. Misses are better with a more forgiving head to a degree however I found my misses tended to be over the green which means ugly thick rough, steep slopes, trees and OB. I learned a short miss is more playable in many cases and this is where my reliance on short game come into play. 

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I chuckle about these threads.  When I first joined this site in probably 2012-2013 my index was around 10-11.  I have been playing GI or SGI irons for years, forgiving drivers and a couple of hybrids.  This site got me hooked on equipment, spent thousands of dollars to see if I could get better or to see if I could play "players" equipment.

 

Complete waste of money, it dawned on my one day when I was entering a score that my index hadn't changed in three years despite spending thousands of dollars.  I decided to stop churning, only club I changed in the past 5 years until yesterday was my primary chipping wedge.  I shot 78 yesterday, didn't hit it great or putt lights out, just one shot at a time managing misses.  Swapping clubs out annually or more is just a waste of money, 5 years may advance technology but yearly there is no effective gain at all.

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You get more “helps” with a GI which is nice for a once a week golfer with no practice. 

Livin' proof that Lefties are not naturally talented.

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16 hours ago, martinbns said:

I chuckle about these threads.  When I first joined this site in probably 2012-2013 my index was around 10-11.  I have been playing GI or SGI irons for years, forgiving drivers and a couple of hybrids.  This site got me hooked on equipment, spent thousands of dollars to see if I could get better or to see if I could play "players" equipment.

 

Complete waste of money, it dawned on my one day when I was entering a score that my index hadn't changed in three years despite spending thousands of dollars.  I decided to stop churning, only club I changed in the past 5 years until yesterday was my primary chipping wedge.  I shot 78 yesterday, didn't hit it great or putt lights out, just one shot at a time managing misses.  Swapping clubs out annually or more is just a waste of money, 5 years may advance technology but yearly there is no effective gain at all.

 

No one likes quitters Martin.😁

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I think another factor for those of us that are older and have been playing for a long time, is how the clubs looks. I'm 70 and grew up playing blades because there were no GI irons. While we know GI irons are more forgiving, we're just not comfortable with how they look. I like my Mizuno JPX 850s because they look like blades when sitting behind the ball. That gives me confidence.

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