Game Improvement Irons vs. Player's Irons

[DaveLeeNC]

Back when I was young (like early 60's) my index was a solid 5'ish in good weather. I mostly played 'players irons' - either WIshon 560MC or a WIshon MB/CB forged mix. These days I am older (wrong side of 70) and may or may not see another single digit index (currently 10.6). 

 

My ballstriking is not what it used to be, but is not really a disaster right now either. But I was considering going to 'full blown GI irons' as an experiment. Are GI irons really that much less controllable? I have hit a few at the range and that was not obvious to me, but I am guessing that my reaction might be different after a couple of rounds.

 

I can't be the only guy who has gone down that path, so I was curious about experiences in this regard - thanks. 

 

dave

[ChipNRun]

1 hour ago, DaveLeeNC said:

Are GI irons really that much less controllable? I have hit a few at the range and that was not obvious to me...

 

A couple of former college players I know once played scratch golf with Players irons during their school years. But, once they graduated and got jobs, they switched to Game Improvement irons. They no longer had time to keep their swing Players or "blade ready," and scored better with GI irons.

 

As for less controllable, this is a matter of degrees. A golfer who understands the basics of the swing - that surely includes you - can hit a basic fade or draw with almost any golf club.

 

Golfers who have the precise swing to use Players clubs probably have the edge on flighting the ball up and down. This assumes, however, that (1) the golfer gets a lot of center cut hits with irons; and (2) the golfer has time to practice and master the more exotic ball curvatures.

 

A couple of years ago Golf Digest interviewed golf club designers from the major OEMs. Here's the error tolerances for a well-struck shot:

• Players: Plus-or-minus 3 yards in range variance.
• GI: Plus-or-minus 7 yards in range variance.
• SGI: Plus-or-minus 10 yards in range variance.

Way back in 1994, I switched from MacGregor MT blades (Players) to Ping Eye2 clones (GI). I immediately dropped five strokes off my rounds and added +3 greens in regulation. And, I didn't have to play six times a month to keep up the gains. GIs blend moderate control + forgiveness.

 

I turn 70 in November, and in rough fittings the reps usually recommend GI heads and lightweight shafts. Don't forget to consider graphite shafts in you new set.

[Howshameless]

I think Game improvement irons require less effort to hit which is definitely a good thing if you are older. They do feel a little jumpy/springy maybe because of the stronger lofts and because of that they do feel like they spin less but you can always offset this by using a different ball or experiment with graphite shafts to increase your trajectory/peak height or both to get more control with your approach shots.

 

Just because they are "game improvement" doesn't mean they aren't workable. If you hit with a draw swing or a slice swing the ball will still curve. It just softens up the curvature a touch.

 

 

Edited September 3, 2020 by MOShii

[braincramp52]

Personally, I feel "forgiveness" to be highly overrated. BUT!! I also think it's highly personal. I played the 2019 season entirely with Ping G410's and finished with a 10 handicap. I got fitted for a set of Wilson Staff blades this year and I will finish the year at a 8. I don't play long irons and at 68 most of the courses I play are between 5500 and 6000 yards. I don't hit the ball very far but I am lucky enough to have a pretty repeatable swing. I'd just say at your age play what you enjoy playing and don't be too concerned about what "bracket" the manufacturers put their irons in. Just my 2 cents.

[fore left]

I am also 70+ and have tried many GI irons. The attraction is to keep your long irons useful, but the trade off is less control on your short irons. I view that as a bad trade off, they call them scoring clubs for a reason. To me, the reality is I've just had to say goodbye to my long irons and move into the world of many headcovers. Whether it's hybrids or fairway woods is user dependent. 

[goaliedad30]

20 minutes ago, fore left said:

I am also 70+ and have tried many GI irons. The attraction is to keep your long irons useful, but the trade off is less control on your short irons. I view that as a bad trade off, they call them scoring clubs for a reason. To me, the reality is I've just had to say goodbye to my long irons and move into the world of many headcovers. Whether it's hybrids or fairway woods is user dependent. 

I'm only 57, but ditched the long irons as well. Right now, playing a 5wd and 7wd instead of 3 & 4 irons. Those cover the 215 and 200 yard spots in my bag. As of yesterday, ditching the 5 iron for a Sim Max 5-hybrid. My new P770's will be 6-PW. I just don't generate enough clubhead speed to play the longer irons anymore unless the lie is perfect, or it's on a tee ....

[MtlJeff]

Use whatever you are comfortable with,  but GI irons won't save a swing that isn't working, they can only do so much

 

Don't worry about accuracy, if people like myself and many others can play off scratch indexes with them they must be accurate enough . When I hit a ball the way I want to hit it, it lands where I expect it to

 

[Exactice808]

On 9/3/2020 at 4:53 AM, MtlJeff said:

Use whatever you are comfortable with,  but GI irons won't save a swing that isn't working, they can only do so much

 

Don't worry about accuracy, if people like myself and many others can play off scratch indexes with them they must be accurate enough . When I hit a ball the way I want to hit it, it lands where I expect it to

 

 

Been actually testing this due to COVID, its been harder and harder to get to the range to practice, I have 2 sets I rotate currently on a somewhat consistent basis. Now let me be clear it may have to do with some personal mental bias, but results are results. Secondly my favorite golf shop still mumbles under his breath that I shouldnt be playing blades when I have him check my MB specs annually. (So of course it tickles me to put the GI's in rotation, reluctantly)

714 AP2s  vs Cobra MB's

 

Fact of the matter by stat tracking I have more GIR with the MB's than I have with the AP2.  

 

MB's - 38% GIR

GI - 33% GIR

 

yes technically that is 1 less GIR in regulation so it does not seem like much,  but when you look at the additional stats from up and downs to putting, as a complete game.  that single GIR affects the score more then we think.  That is honestly 2 strokes (making a birdie putt vs short siding and 2 putting for bogey, thats a 2 shot swing)

 

 

OK so to your core questions. Is GI's less controllable?  Your questions is loaded LOL

 

Control-able as is in shot consistency or as in Workability.

 

GI's and MB's can both be easily workable,  When an applied swing is put to the ball the ball should work in the direction you intend.  The Question though is, HOW MUCH will it move.  GI's will just work less with the same swing applied to an MB due to the inherent designs of the club. If you want to work the GI you just have to add more to the swing to make it move.

 

The next part is controllable by terms-

 

Personally MB's are HIGHLY predictable on misses. PERIOD,  the consistent thing with an MB, is when I MISS,  I know that I will have a dramatically or inherent loss of ballspeed.  When I hit on the toe due to the reduced MOI, the miss is directional and I know the direction. (or heal, or high on the face etc)

 

GI's on the other hand do an EXCELLENT job of retaining ballspeed on less than optimal strike and an increased of MOI, keeps the ball flight straighter due to the higher levels of resistance to twisting. 

 

When I miss with the face closed and on the toe, NORMALLY it would be a weak low snap going left and short with the MB.  But due to the GI's ability to get the ball a little higher, the retained ballspeed and the higher MOI (reduced twisting), The ball could actually go higher left and longer than anticipated in one shot and low left weak the next shot. I kinda dont know what shot will show up, it sometimes becomes unpredictable.

 

So its not "really" controllable. Or predictable.  Same with flighting a shot,  I have more issues with balloons and steep AOA with a GI, compared to an MB, just due to inherent designs.  When I apply a steep AOA to flight an MB down, even if I miss high on the face with a delofted shaft its a lower screamer.  But with a GI, I get massive balloons or random thins.

For my personal game, and my personal weakness,  It seems that MB's provide a more predictable miss so I have more consistency to recover. Rather than the GI's which sometimes have longer misses or shorter misses.  It just really depends what shows up after the ball leaves the club face.

 

 

GL OP!

 

 

 

 

[RoyalMustang]

Here is the thing: if you swing well, you will get extra distance on a GI iron. I just hit the 7-iron from Mizuno, new JPX 921 HMP, and it was easily 10-13 yards longer than the equivalent MP20 MMC.  I don't really need that distance, but if your 7-iron is only going 140 these days, you might. If you strike the ball well and are lacking swing speed, there is nothing to worry about: you will only get hot shots if you usually miss and then really strike one. If you swing well, your shots will all be "hot" and therefore what you expect, and your slight misses won't be too bad.  

 

I am going through the same thing, and honestly don't know whether I would prefer a player's cavity or a GI such as the 921.  I am rusty (probably 18 handicap right now) but will shoot high 70's once I reduce the "awful" misses (pulling the ball 60 yards, duffing it off the tee). 

[MtlJeff]

4 hours ago, Exactice808 said:

 

Been actually testing this due to COVID, its been harder and harder to get to the range to practice, I have 2 sets I rotate currently on a somewhat consistent basis. Now let me be clear it may have to do with some personal mental bias, but results are results. Secondly my favorite golf shop still mumbles under his breath that I shouldnt be playing blades when I have him check my MB specs annually. (So of course it tickles me to put the GI's in rotation, reluctantly)

714 AP2s  vs Cobra MB's

 

Fact of the matter by stat tracking I have more GIR with the MB's than I have with the AP2.  

 

MB's - 38% GIR

GI - 33% GIR

 

yes technically that is 1 less GIR in regulation so it does not seem like much,  but when you look at the additional stats from up and downs to putting, as a complete game.  that single GIR affects the score more then we think.  That is honestly 2 strokes (making a birdie putt vs short siding and 2 putting for bogey, thats a 2 shot swing)

 

 

OK so to your core questions. Is GI's less controllable?  Your questions is loaded LOL

 

Control-able as is in shot consistency or as in Workability.

 

GI's and MB's can both be easily workable,  When an applied swing is put to the ball the ball should work in the direction you intend.  The Question though is, HOW MUCH will it move.  GI's will just work less with the same swing applied to an MB due to the inherent designs of the club. If you want to work the GI you just have to add more to the swing to make it move.

 

The next part is controllable by terms-

 

Personally MB's are HIGHLY predictable on misses. PERIOD,  the consistent thing with an MB, is when I MISS,  I know that I will have a dramatically or inherent loss of ballspeed.  When I hit on the toe due to the reduced MOI, the miss is directional and I know the direction. (or heal, or high on the face etc)

 

GI's on the other hand do an EXCELLENT job of retaining ballspeed on less than optimal strike and an increased of MOI, keeps the ball flight straighter due to the higher levels of resistance to twisting. 

 

When I miss with the face closed and on the toe, NORMALLY it would be a weak low snap going left and short with the MB.  But due to the GI's ability to get the ball a little higher, the retained ballspeed and the higher MOI (reduced twisting), The ball could actually go higher left and longer than anticipated in one shot and low left weak the next shot. I kinda dont know what shot will show up, it sometimes becomes unpredictable.

 

So its not "really" controllable. Or predictable.  Same with flighting a shot,  I have more issues with balloons and steep AOA with a GI, compared to an MB, just due to inherent designs.  When I apply a steep AOA to flight an MB down, even if I miss high on the face with a delofted shaft its a lower screamer.  But with a GI, I get massive balloons or random thins.

For my personal game, and my personal weakness,  It seems that MB's provide a more predictable miss so I have more consistency to recover. Rather than the GI's which sometimes have longer misses or shorter misses.  It just really depends what shows up after the ball leaves the club face.

 

 

GL OP!

 

 

 

 

 

I said in the other thread but i feel like a lot of the bad things attributed to GIs or SGI's are not really that bad and/or are exaggerated. I've used players clubs enough to know that i can use them and shoot relatively the same scores, so i have nothing against them. I just almost feel like you are arguing GI clubs are worse because your mishits with them are better. That is kind of amusing right? Like extra ballspeed on misses is a bad thing. I said in the other thread that if a mishit goes further than a typical mishit, that is almost always a positive thing, at least to me. I've never experienced mishits that go further than simply well struck balls...that is what i was saying in the other thread, that a well struck ball for me will always go further than a mishit, so why should care that a mishit goes further, it's almost always positive if it does. 

 

Please understand that i like you and your posting, so i am not trying to be combative. I just have used Ping G Series for like 5 years of my golfing life and have really never had issues, so it's hard for me to understand the seemingly major issues of other golfers with GI's...maybe it is just my swing

 

Anyway, i really like my G410's, i don't track my GIRs religiously but if i did i would bet that this year i broke my personal record. If i could make a putt over 4 feet i'd probably have been a +1 or +2 for the midsummer months. I just don't understand why a 9-10 index couldn't play GI's or SGI's to his best potential. But frankly at this point i just want people to be happy with their choices as life is too short, and blades are beautiful to look at

 

Anyway have a great weekend dude

 

 

 

[CDLgolf]

I've bounced back and forth between Ping g or i series irons for the last 20 years. My scores are the same with either. I don't find the game improvement irons any less accurate. When I put a good swing on it the ball goes where I want it to. For me its just what I feel like looking at at the time. Sometimes the larger game improvement irons give me more confidence and sometimes the smaller i series do. I regularly play with 2 guys 70+ who both shoot in the mid to low 70's and both use G series irons and play well with them. I've never heard them complain that they are not acurate with those irons.

[Exactice808]

28 minutes ago, MtlJeff said:

 

I said in the other thread but i feel like a lot of the bad things attributed to GIs or SGI's are not really that bad and/or are exaggerated. I've used players clubs enough to know that i can use them and shoot relatively the same scores, so i have nothing against them. I just almost feel like you are arguing GI clubs are worse because your mishits with them are better. That is kind of amusing right? Like extra ballspeed on misses is a bad thing. I said in the other thread that if a mishit goes further than a typical mishit, that is almost always a positive thing, at least to me. I've never experienced mishits that go further than simply well struck balls...that is what i was saying in the other thread, that a well struck ball for me will always go further than a mishit, so why should care that a mishit goes further, it's almost always positive if it does. 

 

Please understand that i like you and your posting, so i am not trying to be combative. I just have used Ping G Series for like 5 years of my golfing life and have really never had issues, so it's hard for me to understand the seemingly major issues of other golfers with GI's...maybe it is just my swing

 

Anyway, i really like my G410's, i don't track my GIRs religiously but if i did i would bet that this year i broke my personal record. If i could make a putt over 4 feet i'd probably have been a +1 or +2 for the midsummer months. I just don't understand why a 9-10 index couldn't play GI's or SGI's to his best potential. But frankly at this point i just want people to be happy with their choices as life is too short, and blades are beautiful to look at

 

Anyway have a great weekend dude

 

 

 

Hmmm, Quite the contrary LOL   Highlighting my specific last statement,

"For my personal game, and my personal weakness,  It seems that MB's provide a more predictable miss so I have more consistency to recover. Rather than the GI's which sometimes have longer misses or shorter misses.  It just really depends what shows up after the ball leaves the club face."  I was highlighting my opinion on my personal struggle with GI's and not at all sayings its the CLUBS fault, but rather a consistent noticeable issue within my personal game.

 

 

I was listing the challenges that I have faced personally, with GI's  While I likely shoot the same score or VERY similar and more so by stat evidence there is a 1 GIR regulation difference.  At this point taking the pro's and con's and my game specifically, the MB's just gives me the higher statistical benefit, of 1 more GIR.  Now to be fair, that could be the difference of 92 vs 90, 82 or 80 or for me the famous 81 and 79. SO I am not a high level player to justify MB's by "handicap". BUT,.......VVVV

 

If you remember the many years of "blades" debates we have entertained together LOL, I have been like you stated   "Use what you are most comfortable with"  Actually why I quoted your post specifically. I accepted that If my scores are close, why not play something I like and am comfortable with. 100% agree with you my friend.

 

 

As for the meat of your post,

 

1) 100% agree most negatives to a GI are usually due to the misconceptions and the player's lack of understanding. (mine included, course management)

2) For specificity of mishits, actually, I am accepting my miss is better for my game specifically with the MB than the GI for me specifically.  Chalk it up as bad luck or misjudgment on my part,  while 100% a miss will always be less than a well struck shot, that also, applies to anticipated ball reaction as well (spin, decent angle to an intended pin location).

 

For whatever reason with a GI,  I have more of an issue flying pins than coming short,  Many of times when I fly a pin, its either I misjudged the distance, or the ball reaction was not what I expected so its long,  Oddly again those missed shots results in a compounded miss on the wrong side of the hole/flag position. Dont ask me why, I just have bad luck AHAHA.   When I really miss and its just short short, actually I notices its real short due to a balloon and when its short I am not reaching the green at all.

 

 The MB's are just short. Slight miss hit is just short. Short most times actually leaves me with a long put but still on the green (pin middle or back) .  Short of the green leaves me short unless it was a front side pin that is short sided facing a bunker.  Oddly with those hole locations I always club to the middle of the green with the MB and am successful and not left with a dire recovery.  Either I am long, or middle of the green. and I dont recall any front locations with a bunker directly in front/middle blocking the entrance of the green?

 

Yet with the GI,

front pin,  usually 2 bunkers left and right, I am able to keep ball speed up and its left in the bunker or left of bunker, facing a short sided bunker shot or over the bunker shot.

Middle pin,  if I dont hit the green again its left, pin high left, again facing either a short side or a greenside bunker.  I wont come up short. leaving me on the green or short of a bunker to an open entry to the middle of the green.

Far pin, Either hit over the green facing a short side back pin, or again left, pin high, short side back location.

Just a weird bad luck situation for me it seems. But I wanted to share how the miss affects my follow on shots.

Absolutely warranted response, I take ZERO offense or connotation that it was combative! I appreciate your response and I too respect you and your posting so no offense taken at all!

 

just wanted to share my personal struggles with the 2 types of irons.

 

 

 

Edited September 5, 2020 by Exactice808

[RacineBoxer]

On 9/4/2020 at 7:16 PM, CDLgolf said:

I've bounced back and forth between Ping g or i series irons for the last 20 years. My scores are the same with either. I don't find the game improvement irons any less accurate. When I put a good swing on it the ball goes where I want it to. For me its just what I feel like looking at at the time. Sometimes the larger game improvement irons give me more confidence and sometimes the smaller i series do. I regularly play with 2 guys 70+ who both shoot in the mid to low 70's and both use G series irons and play well with them. I've never heard them complain that they are not acurate with those irons.

 

I have the G400's and i210's and play to a 4 hcp. I prefer the G400's as I don't consistently hit the center and the mishits are penalized a bit less. I tend to miss toe side and I think the G400's have more weight out there. When I take my G400's onto the course at 7 pm on a nice summer night and practice I can get into nice grooves where I hit a half dozen 7 irons into a green at about 170 yards and control all of their distance within 3-4 yards.  

 

I do think GI irons spin less and curve less.  Therefore they are a bit more difficult to "work". I also think working the ball is completely overrated, even for + handicaps. As Scott Fawcett would say, know your shotgun pattern and aim for the middle of it all the time.

[LeoLeo99]

On 9/5/2020 at 9:21 PM, RacineBoxer said:

 

I have the G400's and i210's and play to a 4 hcp. I prefer the G400's as I don't consistently hit the center and the mishits are penalized a bit less. I tend to miss toe side and I think the G400's have more weight out there. When I take my G400's onto the course at 7 pm on a nice summer night and practice I can get into nice grooves where I hit a half dozen 7 irons into a green at about 170 yards and control all of their distance within 3-4 yards.  

 

I do think GI irons spin less and curve less.  Therefore they are a bit more difficult to "work". I also think working the ball is completely overrated, even for + handicaps. As Scott Fawcett would say, know your shotgun pattern and aim for the middle of it all the time.

 

I bounced between players and GI irons and never found any i like until g400. Don't know if it's the irons or shafts but they go where I aim them. The other GI irons where unpredictable for me distance wise but no surprises from the g400s.  I clanked one yesterday from 150 that my partners said didn't sound so good.  Indeed it didn't.  But it's on the green.  Thank you modern technology. 

Edited September 7, 2020 by LeoLeo99

[martinbns]

I'm 57, play to a 10 on a dozen rounds a year so for me it's GI irons, I play Mizuno 825 GW to 5I then 3&4 hybrid.  

 

Over the years I have played lots of golf with guys sporting "players" clubs and other than them not liking too much offset I never see them bending shots on purpose with any degree of regularity.  I have a straight to slight fade natural swing, I can make my 825's draw but oddly can't hit a bigger fade.  

 

As we all get older our margin for error goes down as we lose distance, why make the game harder?

Edited September 7, 2020 by martinbns

[iNeedMoreGolf]

Im 32 next month and i have the reverse expirence that you have.. i started with super gi irons then gi and now players irons. In my expirence so far ive played best with gi and now the players irons... i have the mp 20 mmc and although they are players irons they are quite forgiving but smaller like i like. I think you switching to gi irons will be very beneficial for all the reasons you probably think. I think there is no shame at all in playing a gi iron either. Lets be honest we can all thin, chunk, shank, push or pull. any iron weather its pi gi or sgi.

[JDMRN81]

I've been playing for 4 years now and have tried irons in all categories.  I'm currently playing my best golf right now with a set of iblades.  I've been shooting low 80's since making the change (had Honma TW-X irons earlier this season).  I did just pick up a set of HMB's to play around with (I played these briefly last season with good results). 

[2Down]

I’m doing it, ordered a set of g710.  But I’m not getting them to fix a miss, I want just I bit more stability and distance.  

 

won’t have them for a bit but am looking forward to seeing my game with them.   Have a few friends who are sticks and many of them are using some form of fast face thing or another.  Everyone pretty much raves about them.   I don’t see how a fast faced sgi would be hugely different spin wise than the so called players distance stuff. Just a bit bigger and a large friendly face behind the ball.   

 

[NoTalentLefty]

6 hours ago, JDMRN81 said:

I've been playing for 4 years now and have tried irons in all categories.  I'm currently playing my best golf right now with a set of iblades.  I've been shooting low 80's since making the change (had Honma TW-X irons earlier this season).  I did just pick up a set of HMB's to play around with (I played these briefly last season with good results). 

But does this mean the iblades are the best for you? You have only been playing for 4 years, that has to be factored into it , I admit I’m assuming here, but your abilities, timing, anything to do with the swing has improved as well. Glad you are shooting well with them . This is not a bash, just an observation from someone who has golfed for 45 years and remembers his first 4 years and how improvement was made in the swing alone.

[txgolfer45]

I ignore the classifications mfrs use to attempt to differentiate their product lines and play what helps me shoot lower scores.  At a 5 handicap, I could play just about anything out there.  But, being 64, I take advantage of technology  to get better trajectory, distance and dispersion with my Ping G700 irons and UST Recoil 65 shafts..  Misses are still pin high in most cases.  Trajectory is higher and the ball stops on the greens.  

[nlinneman20]

On 9/5/2020 at 8:21 PM, RacineBoxer said:

 

I have the G400's and i210's and play to a 4 hcp. I prefer the G400's as I don't consistently hit the center and the mishits are penalized a bit less. I tend to miss toe side and I think the G400's have more weight out there. When I take my G400's onto the course at 7 pm on a nice summer night and practice I can get into nice grooves where I hit a half dozen 7 irons into a green at about 170 yards and control all of their distance within 3-4 yards.  

 

I do think GI irons spin less and curve less.  Therefore they are a bit more difficult to "work". I also think working the ball is completely overrated, even for + handicaps. As Scott Fawcett would say, know your shotgun pattern and aim for the middle of it all the time.

 

Completely agree on the working comment. It's a term for nerds who act like they are pros. Like I told my buddy, if ur in the fairway who cares if it curves left or right, just hit it straight onto the green.

[JDMRN81]

5 hours ago, NoTalentLefty said:

But does this mean the iblades are the best for you? You have only been playing for 4 years, that has to be factored into it , I admit I’m assuming here, but your abilities, timing, anything to do with the swing has improved as well. Glad you are shooting well with them . This is not a bash, just an observation from someone who has golfed for 45 years and remembers his first 4 years and how improvement was made in the swing alone.

Hard to tell, but at the beginning of this season I couldn’t break 90 for the life of me (def regressed from last season). Switched to iblades mid season and the results speak for themselves.  I’ve never been more comfortable with a set of irons. I used to be intimidated when hitting off a par 3, now it’s been a strong part of my game.  I did not do anything different in that time frame other then get a Skytrak which I haven’t used much, and no new coaching/lessons, drastic change in technique, etc.  The HMB’s I just purchased will be a for fun but don’t see them kicking out my iblades. The latter are stupid easy to hit despite their “intimidating” name. 

[dbleag]

Currently, I'm going between a set of PING g25's (stock steel stiff) and s55's (SteelFiber 95 stiff).  This week I shot 75 with each set in the bag. GIR's were about the same.  

 

I will admit that I feel better when hitting the S55 8,9 or W into a green, and I feel better when hitting the G25 6 or 5 iron into a green.  I'm comfortable hitting the 7 iron or either set.

 

My conclusion (age 65 and playing 6500 yds.) is that I should take the best of each set and make a combo set. 

 

I used to have a Combo set of Callaway Apex CF16/Apex Pro's, so I may end up going back to them.

 

 

[puttingmatt]

Honestly, play whatever equipment keeps you playing this game, at 60 I still have success with the 785's, but now carry a hybrid for the 4 iron. This trend will continue, as I age. I will have a reassessment when my current bag no longer meets my needs. That's the great thing , you have choices.  

[RoyalMustang]

Honestly, as others said, just being comfortable with your clubs and shafts is the most important thing.  Having confidence that you will make a good swing and the ball will go (roughly) where you want it to go means everything.  

[A.Princey]

Get the right shaft and head combo, along with a well-suited ball choice for your needs and you can get decent spin/descent angle from SGI clubs most of the time. Unless you're playing rock-hard courses where spin is a premium, there are some very good GI equipment models out there that will work for almost any handicap. Heck, I consider myself a decent player, but my clubs would indicate otherwise ?

[Hogan9]

I played Hogan Apex irons back in the 90s. My handicap was usually 7 to 9. In the 2000s I switched to Hogan Apex Edge Pro cavity backs which I consider GI and my hdcp stayed around 9. . They stayed in the bag until 2015 when I had a fitting for Mizuno JPX 850 forged also considered GI. Last year I had some injuries, I was approaching 70 and my game really suffered. I bought a set of TM 2017 M2 (super game improvement) irons thinking that would help. It didn't and my index soared to 12.8. I went back to the Mizunos early this summer and my index dropped to 9.1. Of course, that's just me. As the saying goes "you may experience different results". I plan to stick with the Mizunos. Although, I might look at upgrading to graphite shafts in the future. 

Edited September 8, 2020 by Hogan9

[jomatty]

I think you need to hit both to know what suits your game.  I went from TaylorMade m2 irons to ping i500 and the change was definitely beneficial.  For me I believe the main difference is in the way they interact with the turf.  Many of the gi irons have such a wide soles that they don’t work well for me.  For other golfers, some who are much better than me, that may not be a problem.  Personally I didn’t have any issues moving the ball from lef to right or right to left, but I did have trouble flighting the ball down with the gi irons.  Even with the crazy strong lofts, I hit everything really high with the m2’s.  I’m currently playing to a 6.2 hcp and the players distance category seems to suit my game quite well.  That said, I doubt it would make much difference in my handicap if I had to play gi irons.  Also I just enjoy the better looking (to my eye) clubs more.  I play golf for fun so that is a factor.  It doesn’t matter to me to put a set of blades in the bag (I’d love the way that would look), but if it is close I’m going with something that is a little smaller with a thinner top line...

[976-Evil]

On 9/7/2020 at 1:54 PM, nlinneman20 said:

 

Completely agree on the working comment. It's a term for nerds who act like they are pros. Like I told my buddy, if ur in the fairway who cares if it curves left or right, just hit it straight onto the green.

 

I'm not sure what this "hit it straight" is that you speak of. Is this some form of black magick I am not aware of? Perhaps I need to be in a secret society?

[driveandputtmachine]

I am currently a 3.  Have ranged from +2.3 to a 4.5 in the last 4 years.  Wrist surgery is the high end of that.

 

As a +2.3 I played Srixon irons.  I hit 13+ GIR, and my proximity was stupid close.  I was playing a split set of 765 and (4-8)565.  565 aren't SGI, I don't think, but they are GI plus or maybe they are SGI, I don't care.  What I do know is that I finished in the top 16 of multiple GA Amateur events over two years before my wrist issue and these clubs were in no way a hindrance to my iron game, in fact it was as good as it had ever been, other than when I was in college and playing everyday with MP-14's.  DIv 1 college golfer.  I do not say any of this as the passive brag or any of the other crap people bring up.  I say it to layout that I am a pretty darn good golfer, I have been playing a darn long time at a pretty high level and am a pretty good judge of equipment.

 

Did I give anything up with the Srixon's?  Yep, I gave up the mis-hits that finished 10-15 yards short of the green.  On perfect strikes I didn't give up anything.  A swing that delivers a club out to in by two degrees with a clubface that is open to target by 4* is going to cut roughly the same amount whether it is a Mizuno blade or a Ping 710.  Where the Ping 710 and other SGI/GI irons shine aren't in making the ball curve a ton less, it's when you hit the ball 3/4" towards the toe.  The blade flies 15 yards short, and the Ping almost make the green.  Sure a T100 is somewhere in the middle maybe 6-7 yards short, but those are the big issues at hand here.

 

Do some of the injected heads make the ball curve a tad less (slice or draw) yes, but the biggest thing I have seen is the reduction of backspin.  I know spin is spin, blah, blah,blah, but I could curve the P790's I had just as well as I could curve the a set of J40 CB's I have in the basement(did a test with the same shaft, CPM's within one of each) and based it on loft.  I remember one shot in particular with the Trackman.  I had the same swing numbers in to out and clubface to target.  It was 3 in to out and 3 degrees closed.  The two balls ended up within 5 feet of each other.  Spin numbers were very close (Same lofts, same length and CPM shaft, same head weight) and it was at that point that everything else I had seen that day made sense.  The 790's weren't making bad swings suddenly curve 5-10 yards less, nor were they making shots hit on the toe by an inch make the green, they were reducing my penalties for all mis-hits, they curved a couple of yards less, and toe strikes that were 10 yards short with the J40CB were now 3 yards short.  

 

Did I move on from the P790's?  Yep, I am testing a split set of Sub 70 699 Pro and 639 CB currently.  I like to support the little guy or DTC if they make a good product.  Which is why I haven't made a full decision about the Srixon or Snell as my tournament ball yet either.  However I have time before I can practice enough to set everything and forget it and start practicing due to my wrist.