If you had to rebuild your swing, where would you start?

[oz dee cee]

I’d simply suggest you find the best instructor (must be someone you gel with, a swing ‘method’ you like and highly recommended) within your reach and see them every month for two years. Practice exactly what they say blindly and emphatically. Then play as much as you can. 

[MK7Golf21]

On 9/25/2021 at 4:02 PM, glk said:

Years ago you had a good number of teaching pros - monte,  Martin chuck, Dana dahlquist, Adam young, Geoff jones, Jim Waldron, Fort Worth pro, iteach to name some.    But the troll discussions eroded away most of these folks and/or they just moved on - monte is pretty much the last remaining teaching pro for the last couple of years.      The forum suffers from their absence, IMO.   As the saying goes, it is what it is.

 

Some of those guys liked to debate and sharpen what they teach so it was mostly just moving on somewhat, the ones who didn't like that sort of thing never really got involved all that much. There are also have other platforms now like instagram to promote, GG blowing up has shown that to be a superior way. Others also got confronted about being a sponsor to promote and they left then. 

[Hawkeye77]

Get competent eyes on your swing, find the root cause(s) and get to work on that/those as the case may be.

 

Edit:  and if getting a quote from Monte on getting my kitchen remodeled meant I could get him in the backyard for a quick swing checkup, you bet I'd call him!  Not letting him touch my cabinets.  😉  

Edited September 27, 2021 by Hawkeye77

[me05501]

From the ground up. 

[DShepley]

I'd probably start over again with Pickelball.....

[nitram]

Once I followed Mr. Penick's advice about the grip, stance, and ball placement, I'd do everything I could to copy this swing to the best of my ability.

 

[TheDeanAbides]

12 minutes ago, nitram said:

Once I followed Mr. Penick's advice about the grip, stance, and ball placement, I'd do everything I could to copy this swing to the best of my ability.

 

It's a great swing, but the float load is so hard to time effectively and is unnecessary for most ams. 

[nitram]

I don't see it mate. She has a late hand set from her one-piece takeaway but appears set by the time she starts down with it all. But I'm not a swing coach either... Cheers 🍻

[chasingneil]

I've actually thought about this a lot, mainly as I think about the kids someday picking up the game. 

• As a dominant right hander I'd really consider playing left-handed. Feel I'd have more club and face control with my dominant side being the leading side. Probably comes from being a tennis player and having a 2 handed backhand.
• I wish I let my swing develop more naturally early on and focused more on what I want the golf ball to do vs. things like setup, grip, positions in backswing. As a lifelong tennis player, I've never thought about how to swing a racquet, only what/where I want the ball to go....  all the shots, spins, etc just come naturally.  Wish I'd thought about hitting a golf ball the same...  I imagine that's what it's like for a good golfer. 

[TheDeanAbides]

1 hour ago, nitram said:

I don't see it mate. She has a late hand set from her one-piece takeaway but appears set by the time she starts down with it all. But I'm not a swing coach either... Cheers 🍻

This is what I mean from Monte.

https://rebelliongolf.com/float-loading/

 

Basically, Mickey Wright did this naturally and was extremely skilled at it. It should never be something to add into a swing though because of the timing issues. 

 

I spoke in person with Dan Whittaker about this years ago because he deliberately had this late wrist set in his swing and he wishes he'd never done it because he would have been more consistent. 

 

Saying all this, there are loads of great things to learn from Wright's excellent swing. 

Edited September 27, 2021 by TheDeanAbides

[D_iGital_pUnk]

I'd take up tennis 

[tacklingdummy]

I'd start with finding the right grip. Both type of grip (overlap or interlock) and how neutral, strong, or weak it needs to be depending on how strong or dominant your left/right hands are to try to make it as neutral as possible. 

[Seattlegolfnut]

8 hours ago, chasingneil said:

I've actually thought about this a lot, mainly as I think about the kids someday picking up the game. 

• As a dominant right hander I'd really consider playing left-handed. Feel I'd have more club and face control with my dominant side being the leading side. Probably comes from being a tennis player and having a 2 handed backhand.
• I wish I let my swing develop more naturally early on and focused more on what I want the golf ball to do vs. things like setup, grip, positions in backswing. As a lifelong tennis player, I've never thought about how to swing a racquet, only what/where I want the ball to go....  all the shots, spins, etc just come naturally.  Wish I'd thought about hitting a golf ball the same...  I imagine that's what it's like for a good golfer. 

Thought about this a lot too, but unless we are like Phil and can get someone to make us whatever equipment we desire, the disparity between RH and LH equipment offerings would drive me nuts. I give lots of props to Lefty’s that have overcome this frustration.

 

Totally agree with swinging a racquet. Love the feel-based fluidity of the tennis swing vs breaking down the golf swing into positions. Have seen some teachers use a racquet in their prop arsenal…

[Seattlegolfnut]

10 hours ago, me05501 said:

From the ground up. 

Some might take this comment as a bit 😜, but I’d vote it the right answer.
 

Stance, weight/balance, knee flex, hip bend, back posture, etc. Get that right (or at least comfortable) before picking up a club in the rebuild process. Otherwise ripe for compensations.

Edited September 28, 2021 by Seattlegolfnut

[me05501]

On 9/27/2021 at 9:59 PM, Seattlegolfnut said:

Some might take this comment as a bit 😜, but I’d vote it the right answer.
 

Stance, weight/balance, knee flex, hip bend, back posture, etc. Get that right (or at least comfortable) before picking up a club in the rebuild process. Otherwise ripe for compensations.

My personal experience has been that learning to use the ground and the lower body athletically in the golf swing can sort out a lot of the issues that happen above the waist, up to and including the stuff between the ears! 

Edited September 29, 2021 by me05501

[Nard_S]

15 hours ago, RichieHunt said:

think the biggest issues that amateurs have, myself included, is inaccurate swing concepts.  They'll doggedly try to execute those concepts and then come to find out that it's either physically impossible to do or that concept isn't what is actually going on with the best ballstrikers

This is a bigger deal, bigger factor, than is commonly recognized. I thought I knew a lot, most of it was highly flawed. Too smart by a half, just enough to be dangerous & detrimental was the reality. 

[TonyDAnnunzio]

Impact...  

 

20+ years ago I got down to a 3 HC and wanted to get to scratch or better.  Then I quit for 20 years and just got back to playing late last year/early this year.  Part of my problem was when I started playing at age 27 I was able to become a fairly decent player rather quickly.  I broke 80 for the first time on the first anniversary of playing my first "real" round of golf.  I got down to a 5 HC within a couple of years and then it became really difficult to shave those few strokes.  I was invited to join a bunch of guys that consisted of many of the local pros and assistant pros in the area as well as some former tour players that got together 2 or 3 times a week.  The really cool thing about that was not only getting to watch how they went about playing was the fact that I don't believe I paid for a round of golf for about 3 years due to always being with a PGA pro and getting comped.  I was always getting free lessons on the range from the local pros and became really good friends with one of them...  he was constantly working with me and one day everything just "clicked"...  he had me shorten up my backswing and make a bigger shoulder turn.  For whatever reason it made my golf swing feel like a baseball swing and what I had been familiar with all of my life.  The next time out at my home course I shot 68 from the tips, followed that up with a 70 then an even par round...  We went on a trip to Pinehurst the following week and got out of the car after a five hour drive and went straight to the first tee and shot 73 from the tips...  I don't recall which #course it was at Pinehurst...  the following day we went out and I believe I parred the first 3 or 4 holes then pulled a wedge "left of left" on an approach shot.  The "feel" that I had was gone and for the life of me I could not get it back.  I think I ended up shooting 88 or so that day and everything went to "hell in a handbasket"...  I worked with my friend the pro and beat bucket of balls after bucket of balls and could never recapture that feel...  my HC was going in the opposite direction, my daughter was just born and I was just sick of golf so I gave it up...

 

Now that I am back to playing my HC is currently a 10.4 and I have a horrible ugly flip of the club and a slight early extension...  I have watched every youtube video on the subject and just can not get rid of it...  my son is currently a pitcher in college and he and I work on his mechanics in the off season...  I take that back, I run the video and radar gun and he works on his mechanics.  He called me over the weekend and ask how my golf game was coming along...  I told him "I just can't get my hands in front at impact and am flipping the club and it just feels horrible".  He told me to stop looking at static pictures of tour players and trying to get into those positions and "the reason you can't get into those positions is probably because you are doing something wrong way before impact"...  so I picked up an old baseball bat and went out into the back yard and started making some swings trying to pay attention to how my arms felt as I was swinging.  One of the things that immediately jumped out at me was I felt like the back of my left hand, I am right handed, was pointing straight down to the ground in my follow through...  so off to youtube I went and started watching videos on forearm rotation through impact...  what I have been doing is trying to hold off rotation to force my hands forward at impact...  I went up to a schoolyard yesterday and hit some 75 yard wedge shots trying to feel as if my the back of my hand was facing the ground through impact.  I immediately hit much lower trajectory shots that were 10 - 15 yards left but they felt solid.  I took some video and sure enough my hands were ahead of the ball at impact...  not as much as I would like but felt it was a good start.  I then recalled some pictures my Mom and Dad had on their wall of me hitting in baseball when I was in high school.  With my baseball swing my pelvis would be completely open facing the pitcher at impact...  so I started to focus on feeling the left wrist face the ground at impact, I realize this is not actually happening but it what it feels like, and trying to get open at impact...  for two shots I felt EXACTLY what it felt like 20+ years ago before I quit playing when I was striping it.  I thought to myself "damn, was that pulled wedge at Pinehurst just because I could not get open"...  anyway, the other 50 or so balls I hit did not feel nearly as good as those two but it's a start.

 

Sorry for the long winded answer...  I am sort of rebuilding my swing and hoping I can recapture that old feel.

[Zitlow]

What purpose does it serve to radial flex your hands in the backswing and ulnar deviate them in the downswing? 

[chipa]

I have been rebuilding my swing for the last two years after a layoff from golf. I don't live in the States plus I have a limited budget and I have some health limitations as well. Here are a few things I've learned.

 

1. Don't be afraid to look at various pros and swing theories,

2. Take a video of your swing every so often but don't get too caught up if it's not perfect. If you post it on the forum if you will get all the advice you can handle.

3. Get a golf radar or something similar. I did this based on a recommendation of a pro and it has helped my swing be more efficient.

4. Look at Manuel de La Torres videos/method even if you don't do use his method.

5. Have realistic expectations, I feel like if I can hit 70% of my shots like I planned that's good results. I feel like this approach and also working on the short game and course management is enough to get me to a single digit hc.

 

 

Edited September 28, 2021 by chipa

[2bGood]

I am not sure precisely where to point you. But if I was to start again I would commit to one source and one source only early on. 

 

I wasted so much time trying tips I found in magazine and other sources that had no relevance to my swing. When I decided to ignore everything but one source things just kept getting better. 

 

For me the one source has been a competent instructor. A few over the years as they moved away. It has never been 'expensive' as I found it was best to not get regular instruction but rather spend the time owning what I was working on before coming back to further improve. 

[mukster]

I’m not a kid anymore, started playing 20 years ago and got down to around a 13 hcp. Couldn’t improve and actually started getting worse. 
Recently went to see a guy who I new nothing about, except that he has Trackman and he was close. 
He teaches MORAD and spent a lot of time with Mac ‘O Grady. 
I decided what the heck and jumped down the rabbit hole. 
It has been both the most fun and the most difficult lessons I have had. Trending down, now an 8.4, and I’m only really getting into the swing now. 
 

Never thought that I would be getting better at this age. I think that rebuilding takes a plan, a good coach and practice, regardless of the instruction method, for the most part. 
 

 

[Nels55]

What would I do if I was starting out now?  Well, LOL I would not do most of the things that I did do over the last 55 years of trying to learn a golf swing.  I would not go to any of the pros that I have had lessons with and I would not study the vast majority of the myriad of books and videos I have gone through other then a few of those on the mental side of the problem.  @RichieHuntsaid it pretty well in his post above and I can say that I have used so many misguided swing mechanics over the years it is unbelievable that I ever hit the ball at all.  I recently watched the AMG+ videos and I noticed that they mentioned some of the the stuff that I have practiced so hard as things that are commonly taught but are not what the pros do.  At this point I believe that the basic pro swing is fundamentally the easiest and most efficient way to swing.  Very few people actually practice the right things in order to swing properly so the level of frustration in average golfers is rather high.   

 

So I would go through the AMG system doing the drills and shooting a lot of video every day.  Would this work?  I don't know!  I think that I would at least get to the level that I am at now in a few years and possibly I would be a lot better ball striker not having so many incorrect moves burned into my brain!

[milesgiles]

On 9/26/2021 at 5:35 PM, jomatty said:

I would look at the young guys like Morikawa and how they swing.  The bowed left wrist and rotation through the ball seems like a great way to approach the swing.  I would find a teacher that understands this style of golf swing and work with him/her.

 

Same idea, Id go with Garcia, very laid off/flat, and turn through.. proven over more than 20 years.

 

Most swings I see posted here (including mine) are naturally the opposite. Steep in transition, stall, goat hump, flip.. They are NOT all a result of poor grip/setup.

 

So yeah, Id start over with Garcias dad as my coach. Or Monte..

[jonsnow]

On 9/27/2021 at 12:24 PM, nitram said:

Once I followed Mr. Penick's advice about the grip, stance, and ball placement, I'd do everything I could to copy this swing to the best of my ability.

 

I love this swing! 

[MK7Golf21]

13 hours ago, milesgiles said:

 

Same idea, Id go with Garcia, very laid off/flat, and turn through.. proven over more than 20 years.

 

Most swings I see posted here (including mine) are naturally the opposite. Steep in transition, stall, goat hump, flip.. They are NOT all a result of poor grip/setup.

 

So yeah, Id start over with Garcias dad as my coach. Or Monte..

 

being very laid off and flat is going to lead even more to your issue of steep in transition etc for the average golfer

 

 

[MikeG]

On 9/27/2021 at 11:24 AM, nitram said:

Once I followed Mr. Penick's advice about the grip, stance, and ball placement, I'd do everything I could to copy this swing to the best of my ability.

 

 

Although I've read his book several times many years back, I don't remember what his ball placement advice was.

 

His "Magic Move" had a big impact on me when I first started playing a lot of golf. I went from a typical left-to-right, banana-balling 18 handicap to a ~12. All it took after that was better course management to get into the 9-11 range and breaking 80 occasionally.

 

To the OP's question: set-up (grip, alignment, ball position) and an honest self-assessment of my game in terms of strengths and weaknesses. 

 

 

[nitram]

On 9/28/2021 at 4:00 PM, jonsnow said:

I love this swing! 

Me too!

 

The man who taught me the game caddied for her on occasion when she was in the midwest. She'd stop by on her way from coast to coast, even when she no longer played on the LPGA Tour to visit with him.  He would tell me when she was coming and I always enjoyed my time with her. She had a great golf swing and was an even better lady.  

[blues72]

Posture, grip and alignment.