LIV Tour Discussion Thread (*** NO POLITICS ***)

[Hawkeye77]

7 hours ago, TiScape said:

Doing my darnedest to not think about the LIV stuff/negativity. But watching the ESPN+ coverage this morning and seeing Rahm. It’s still impossible for me not to think of all his 1st person quotes denouncing LIV. Def on the Mt. Rushmore of foot down throat hypocrites. 
Oh well

 

Same - I haven't seen him play since last year and seeing him in and around Augusta National reminds me of the same - those were seemingly real emotions and well spoken and spoken often and . . . . turns out they could be bought, but it did take over $500 million. Now he wants to have it both ways with the whimsical wishes he could play here or there or "why can't we be friends in a world tour" crap which is both convenient and really hypocritical and a few are buying it.  He got his money, so zip it and enjoy it and don't act like it's some burden to get over half a billion and stick it to the Tour.  He may not have liked what happened back in June, but don't pretend that's what changed his mind, it's only because the bidding hadn't gotten anywhere near where he had been driving it with rhetoric and a Masters win.  Clearly at some point, $300 million or $400 million wasn't enough, lol.  More power to him.

[WorkItBothWays]

@Hawkeye77 Exactly, first it was the best decision for my family then it got shifted to disgruntlement with the PGA Tour. Very few of the LIV defectors have any integrity at all as almost none of them are owning their decision.

 

Fans aren't tired of the division they are tired of people who made a choice to take a massive payday knowing the consequences of that choice but continually whinging about it. When the realisation that a resolution is years away sinks in they have to wrestle with the decision. Sounds like Rahm is still trying to convince himself.

 

Just get on with playing golf.

[tomjas]

8 hours ago, Shilgy said:

It doesn’t mean they will immediately regain their tour cards.  There has to be some kind of penalty.

 

Chance of there being any meaningful penalties is so remote that it doesn’t warrant consideration 

[Hawkeye77]

4 hours ago, WorkItBothWays said:

@Hawkeye77 Exactly, first it was the best decision for my family then it got shifted to disgruntlement with the PGA Tour. Very few of the LIV defectors have any integrity at all as almost none of them are owning their decision.

 

Fans aren't tired of the division they are tired of people who made a choice to take a massive payday knowing the consequences of that choice but continually whinging about it. When the realisation that a resolution is years away sinks in they have to wrestle with the decision. Sounds like Rahm is still trying to convince himself.

 

Just get on with playing golf.

 

Yes.

 

Media has hyped the whole fans are tired of the "division" extremely disproportionately to reality.  LIV numbers are terrible - it isn't an overstatement to say fans just don't care about it as a concept and more importantly don't care about watching admittedly two or three of the best players in the world (along with a lot of filler and old baggage).  

 

With all the what have you done for me lately "news" about Tour ratings, Valero was up 21% over last year with a Sunday battle between two so-called lesser players (I won't address Rory's stupid comments before the tournament about TV ratings) while having to compete with the biggest sports draw outside the Super Bowl - Caitlin Clark.  

 

Rahm's "I made the move to influence everyone getting together" is such a false narrative - he made the move for over half a billion dollars, haha, he never talks about that in any way that recognizes the enormity of the personal wealth (and LIV servants, haha) it took for his conscience and principles to vanish.  HE HAS THE MONEY - everything said after that is just a convenient way of trying to work on an image he knows he's tarnished and there just aren't any real talking points that change that, yet some fools want to look past it because it sounds somewhat plausible and allows them to still love on Rahm - no problem, join his merry group of nobody watching him play golf.

 

A good point was made yesterday on GC about the Masters, and it may have been Rahm, talking about how it's the biggest in the world (lol, he hasn't won The Open yet) and one reason is people that don't really follow golf will tune it in and that's his disconnect with LIV.  A tiny amount of people who watch golf because they love golf or certain players watch LIV but the vast majority of those folks don't seek out the LIV product.  For sure tons of people watch The Masters who don't watch a lot of other golf and that isn't changed because LIV guys are playing, and there are plenty of folks who don't play that will tune in the PGA Tour whether Rahm or DJ are in the event or not, the audience will be . . . the same, the event is the draw in particular with The Masters.

 

But there's Rahm the convenient guy again.  Before he won The Masters he made it clear that winning The Open was the "biggest achievement in golf" - referencing Seve and wanting to win at St. Andrews in particular.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 10 by Hawkeye77

[Titleist99]

7 hours ago, WorkItBothWays said:

@Hawkeye77 Exactly, first it was the best decision for my family then it got shifted to disgruntlement with the PGA Tour. Very few of the LIV defectors have any integrity at all as almost none of them are owning their decision.

 

Fans aren't tired of the division they are tired of people who made a choice to take a massive payday knowing the consequences of that choice but continually whinging about it. When the realisation that a resolution is years away sinks in they have to wrestle with the decision. Sounds like Rahm is still trying to convince himself.

 

Just get on with playing golf.

"Fans aren't tired of the division they are tired of people who made a choice to take a massive payday knowing the consequences of that choice but continually whinging about it."

 

"Fans aren't tired of the division they are tired of people who made a choice to take a massive payday knowing the consequences of that choice but continually whinging about it."

 

This can not be said enough. 

[Shilgy]

23 minutes ago, Titleist99 said:

"Fans aren't tired of the division they are tired of people who made a choice to take a massive payday knowing the consequences of that choice but continually whinging about it."

 

"Fans aren't tired of the division they are tired of people who made a choice to take a massive payday knowing the consequences of that choice but continually whinging about it."

 

This can not be said enough. 

But but Greg said if I sign it will force the immediate merger-Jon Rahm

 

Edited April 10 by Shilgy

[CaymanS]

Face it folks, there is no way to bridge the enormous inequity gap between LIV and the PGAT.  None.  Rahm can dream all he wants, but it will never happen.  And it is totally unfair for the PGAT players to share what they have with those who turned their backs on their tour.  And the LIV model will never create an ROI, ever.  Thus you have a permanent stalemate.

[CDM]

On 4/8/2024 at 6:48 PM, bscinstnct said:

BK call the Masters

 

” the first big event of the year”

 

🤣🤣

 

 

 

It funny how to Brooks any other event he plays in (PGAT/LIV/Etc.) is nothing. Like "Ho Hum".   Yet Majors he is locked in. Have to give him credit, he knows how to get motivated for Majors.    

 

I don't see him doing well this year in majors but last time I thought that he won... so who knows with him. 

[CDM]

5 hours ago, Hawkeye77 said:

Media has hyped the whole fans are tired of the "division" extremely disproportionately to reality.  

 

Valero was up 21% over last year 

 

 

Rahm statement was BS  "bringing golf back together". Sad...!   Stick to the truth, he did it for the money.  Sure, yes long term for his family but that is money side.  At least everyone can agree on that, not the BS of bringing golf back together. 

 

Viewership/Ratings I would not say media has over hyped it. The discussion is just based on pure numbers.  Even Jay M has noted it himself.  

 

Valero was up on Sunday, great ending, but that is only event all year that is was not down as a "total" 

*Granted I think the early rounds where down?   

 

** I "think" the Nick Dunlap event he won was up overall. I know that Sunday round pushed it over as that was pretty cool to see.  

 

The rest of the PGAT events have all been down otherwise.  Looking at the numbers strictly.  A few were down almost 20% in total.    

 

Tigers event (Genesis) even with him playing, before he withdrew was down 51% on Thursday alone.  The weekend numbers got it back up but was down overall. 

 

Not sure if fans are tired of all the BS, or the hang over of COVID boom is wearing off?  

[Ole3wiggle]

1 hour ago, CaymanS said:

Face it folks, there is no way to bridge the enormous inequity gap between LIV and the PGAT.  None.  Rahm can dream all he wants, but it will never happen.  And it is totally unfair for the PGAT players to share what they have with those who turned their backs on their tour.  And the LIV model will never create an ROI, ever.  Thus you have a permanent stalemate.

You do realize the PGA TOUR did a back door deal with PIF right? Even if the investment doesnt come to fruition they came to an agreement with PIF to stop litigation as well as an agreed upon "framework". The PGA TOUR did worse to the players than the players who left. Many players left $ on the table for "legacy". 

[Holy Moses]

6 hours ago, Hawkeye77 said:

 

Yes.

 

Media has hyped the whole fans are tired of the "division" extremely disproportionately to reality.  LIV numbers are terrible - it isn't an overstatement to say fans just don't care about it as a concept and more importantly don't care about watching admittedly two or three of the best players in the world (along with a lot of filler and old baggage).  

 

With all the what have you done for me lately "news" about Tour ratings, Valero was up 21% over last year with a Sunday battle between two so-called lesser players (I won't address Rory's stupid comments before the tournament about TV ratings) while having to compete with the biggest sports draw outside the Super Bowl - Caitlin Clark.  

 

Rahm's "I made the move to influence everyone getting together" is such a false narrative - he made the move for over half a billion dollars, haha, he never talks about that in any way that recognizes the enormity of the personal wealth (and LIV servants, haha) it took for his conscience and principles to vanish.  HE HAS THE MONEY - everything said after that is just a convenient way of trying to work on an image he knows he's tarnished and there just aren't any real talking points that change that, yet some fools want to look past it because it sounds somewhat plausible and allows them to still love on Rahm - no problem, join his merry group of nobody watching him play golf.

 

A good point was made yesterday on GC about the Masters, and it may have been Rahm, talking about how it's the biggest in the world (lol, he hasn't won The Open yet) and one reason is people that don't really follow golf will tune it in and that's his disconnect with LIV.  A tiny amount of people who watch golf because they love golf or certain players watch LIV but the vast majority of those folks don't seek out the LIV product.  For sure tons of people watch The Masters who don't watch a lot of other golf and that isn't changed because LIV guys are playing, and there are plenty of folks who don't play that will tune in the PGA Tour whether Rahm or DJ are in the event or not, the audience will be . . . the same, the event is the draw in particular with The Masters.

 

But there's Rahm the convenient guy again.  Before he won The Masters he made it clear that winning The Open was the "biggest achievement in golf" - referencing Seve and wanting to win at St. Andrews in particular.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The old Walter White “I did it for my family” and to bridge the gap between the leagues nonsense. He believed Norman who I’m sure told him that a merger was coming. Now Rahm has buyers remorse, is stuck in a league he doesn’t want to be in, and is significantly unhappier than he was before LIV. LIV must be pissed at him. He hasn’t won on LIV yet, hasn’t done much for LIV ratings, and on multiple occasions talks about his love for the PGA Tour.

[Holy Moses]

2 hours ago, CaymanS said:

Face it folks, there is no way to bridge the enormous inequity gap between LIV and the PGAT.  None.  Rahm can dream all he wants, but it will never happen.  And it is totally unfair for the PGAT players to share what they have with those who turned their backs on their tour.  And the LIV model will never create an ROI, ever.  Thus you have a permanent stalemate.

Don’t tell Bryson that. A merger has to happen ASAP according to him. For the good of the game or something. Wait, Bryson said he is worried about waning pro golf fan interest? Wasn’t LIV supposed to grow the game? Wasn’t LIV about disrupting golf? If so, why would you want to merge with the old stoogy PGA Tour? Oh right, because they are successful and LIV isn’t.

[bscinstnct]

🤣

 

 

[notsohard]

3 hours ago, CaymanS said:

Face it folks, there is no way to bridge the enormous inequity gap between LIV and the PGAT.  None.  Rahm can dream all he wants, but it will never happen.  And it is totally unfair for the PGAT players to share what they have with those who turned their backs on their tour.  And the LIV model will never create an ROI, ever.  Thus you have a permanent stalemate.

Golf can get worse if stalemate happens. 

[jdl]

From The Athletic...

 

While the pathway is clear for PGA Tour players, it remains limited for those on LIV.

Furthermore, that dynamic doesn’t appear to be changing anytime soon. Augusta National chairman Fred Ridley was noncommittal Wednesday when asked about potential criteria being created specifically for the Saudi Arabian-owned tour.

“I think it will be difficult to establish any type of point system that had any connection to the rest of the world of golf because they’re basically, not totally, but for the most part, a closed shop,” Ridley said at his annual Masters news conference.

 

 

[1t2golf]

2 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

🤣

 

 

 

 

“Walking around here today, there’s not one person who said to me, ‘Why did you do LIV?’ ” he said in a brief interview on the course. “There’s been hundreds of people, even security guys, stopping me, saying, ‘Hey, what you’re doing is fantastic.’ To me, that tells you that what we have and the platform fits within the ecosystem, and it’s good for the game of golf.”

 

 

Hundreds? Why not thousands if you're going to make up stuff. 🤣 

 

[tomjas]

26 minutes ago, 1t2golf said:

 

 

“Walking around here today, there’s not one person who said to me, ‘Why did you do LIV?’ ” he said in a brief interview on the course. “There’s been hundreds of people, even security guys, stopping me, saying, ‘Hey, what you’re doing is fantastic.’ To me, that tells you that what we have and the platform fits within the ecosystem, and it’s good for the game of golf.”

 

 

Hundreds? Why not thousands if you're going to make up stuff. 🤣 

 

There would have been thousands trying to talk to him 

 

He’s a celebrity and that’s how people react 

[pingbling23]

1 hour ago, jdl said:

From The Athletic...

 

While the pathway is clear for PGA Tour players, it remains limited for those on LIV.

Furthermore, that dynamic doesn’t appear to be changing anytime soon. Augusta National chairman Fred Ridley was noncommittal Wednesday when asked about potential criteria being created specifically for the Saudi Arabian-owned tour.

“I think it will be difficult to establish any type of point system that had any connection to the rest of the world of golf because they’re basically, not totally, but for the most part, a closed shop,” Ridley said at his annual Masters news conference.

 

 

he also said, in more words, that this is an invitational and they can have anyone they want and can use subjective criteria to send invites.

[jdl]

17 minutes ago, pingbling23 said:

he also said, in more words, that this is an invitational and they can have anyone they want and can use subjective criteria to send invites.

Correct, guys like Niemann who make an effort to play in other qualifying events like the Australian Open. Guys who just play on LIV....nope.

[pingbling23]

27 minutes ago, jdl said:

Correct, guys like Niemann who make an effort to play in other qualifying events like the Australian Open. Guys who just play on LIV....nope.

as of right now thats what it seems like but they are open to other criteria.  its improbable but if someone goes off and wins every liv event from after the masters to the next masters and they didnt automatically qualify for the masters it would be ignorant for them to not send an invite.

[tomjas]

38 minutes ago, jdl said:

Correct, guys like Niemann who make an effort to play in other qualifying events like the Australian Open. Guys who just play on LIV....nope.

I’m Australian and admit that LIV events are of a much higher standard than the Australian Open 

 

Niemann received an invitation for 2 reasons 

 

1. His body of work indicates that he’s top 20 in the world 

 

2. He’s the highest profile golfer from South America & his participation = higher number of viewers & there’s nothing Augusta likes more than money 

 

It really is that simple 

[Ghost of Snead]

1 hour ago, tomjas said:

There would have been thousands trying to talk to him 

 

He’s a celebrity and that’s how people react 

 

P.T. Barnum was a celebrity too.

[idrive]

47 minutes ago, pingbling23 said:

as of right now thats what it seems like but they are open to other criteria.  its improbable but if someone goes off and wins every liv event from after the masters to the next masters and they didnt automatically qualify for the masters it would be ignorant for them to not send an invite.

 

No one is going to go off "and wins every liv event".  Seems a bit silly to even say something that absurd.

[pingbling23]

47 minutes ago, idrive said:

 

No one is going to go off "and wins every liv event".  Seems a bit silly to even say something that absurd.

improbable - not likely to be true or to happen.  but its more probable that if LIV stays in its current form and continues signing top players that there will be masters invites to players that only play LIV events more so then the masters not inviting them.  they want the best players in their tournament.  they will figure it out.  its all theater right now though.  augusta's executives know that the merger is a done deal so there is no need for them to draw lines in the sand at this point.  

[Holy Moses]

1 hour ago, pingbling23 said:

improbable - not likely to be true or to happen.  but its more probable that if LIV stays in its current form and continues signing top players that there will be masters invites to players that only play LIV events more so then the masters not inviting them.  they want the best players in their tournament.  they will figure it out.  its all theater right now though.  augusta's executives know that the merger is a done deal so there is no need for them to draw lines in the sand at this point.  

It’s not a done deal

[pingbling23]

3 hours ago, Holy Moses said:

It’s not a done deal

We’ll see.  As soon as jay said he flew to SA with ssg before they made their partnership it was telling.  "It was important for SSG and it was important for the Tour to engage directly with the PIF prior to finalizing any deal, which is why I joined principals from SSG on a trip to Saudi Arabia to meet with Yasir and members of PIF, and that's why we continue to have productive discussions. There's a mutual respect there that I think is helpful towards ultimately getting a deal done, and I think it is that level of discussion that has helped accelerate the conversations."

[aenemated]

It's 2024 and this clownshoe is still wearing this stupid hat ... 

 

 

 

It wasn't even cool 30 years ago dawg 😂😂😂

 

[freeze16172002]

10 hours ago, pingbling23 said:

improbable - not likely to be true or to happen.  but its more probable that if LIV stays in its current form and continues signing top players that there will be masters invites to players that only play LIV events more so then the masters not inviting them.  they want the best players in their tournament.  they will figure it out.  its all theater right now though.  augusta's executives know that the merger is a done deal so there is no need for them to draw lines in the sand at this point.  

You realize 60% of LIV players are washed up and never were players? That they play in a closed league not an open competition league like every other sport? That LIV is not based on ability or current form. LIV is the golf equivalent of the Ice Capades. You cannot determine if they are the best players by playing in that clown show. 

[tomjas]

1 hour ago, freeze16172002 said:

You realize 60% of LIV players are washed up and never were players? That they play in a closed league not an open competition league like every other sport? That LIV is not based on ability or current form. LIV is the golf equivalent of the Ice Capades. You cannot determine if they are the best players by playing in that clown show. 

You guys tried this nonsense last year and it backfired 

 

Need some new material 

[Titleist99]

12 minutes ago, tomjas said:

You guys tried this nonsense last year and it backfired 

 

Need some new material 

LOL!/....... I think that Koepka will win the 2024 Masters, yet I still think that the Saudi League is a clown show. 🤣