LIV Tour Discussion Thread (*** NO POLITICS ***)

[mitchl]

2 hours ago, woodriff said:

I must’ve missed something. Cam Smith has not officially announced he’s leaving, yet every major sports source indicate that he is, or has he announced ? I did check LIV stories and they indicated he inked a deal … and he still gets to play in the FedEx Cup? 

You missed nothing.   He made no announcement, other than to say that when there is something to say, he will be the one to say it, and to ignore any other Cams (Cam Percy) on what they say.    

A few things I think are possible here:

1) He maybe has not decided.  ( I think he probably has, maybe the court ruling affected him).

2) He has signed, and just is delaying things until after the FedEx Cup

 

3) He is delaying signing to see if he gets the FedEx Cup and becomes #1.   

Note - none of my options are "he has decided to pass on LIV" - I think if that was the case, there would have been some denial yesterday.  By being ambiguous, he keeps the heat on him until there is a decision/announcement.

I tend to think #3.   I am not pro-LIV, but it makes the best business sense for him to hold an offer, and I hope he hasn't been dumb enough to sign while he was world #2 right before the FedEx Cup.   Regardless of what Greg Norman says, the field is NOT determined for 2023 (he also did say they would make room/kick out someone for a top player to come in).
Any $100m offer to Cam Smith is good for a while, that is undervaluing him (based on LIV values where Phil is worth $200m).   
If Cam Smith is FedEx Cup holder and World #1, he can make Greg go back to the Prince to find a couple hundred million more-- hell they were going to pay Hidecki $400m 3 weeks ago!

[woahnelly]

24 minutes ago, ronsc1985 said:

I think the answer is obvious. If he doesn't announce during playoffs the PGA has no valid reason to bar him. If they do, on the basis of rumors I would think Smith would have one hell of a lawsuit against the PGA for violating their own rules about qualifications for the events.

 

Yep just play it safe, collect that $3 mil bonus check for being in the Fed Ex top 10 and nab some more cash in the playoffs. 

[paulshack]

I guess it all comes down to this....

 

 

Would you rather be the #1 golfer in the world and make several millions or sign a deal for 120+ million and disappear with no weight on your shoulders? 

 

Mind boggling these young players going to liv. Disgusting. 

[Htk084]

17 minutes ago, mitchl said:

You missed nothing.   He made no announcement, other than to say that when there is something to say, he will be the one to say it, and to ignore any other Cams (Cam Percy) on what they say.    

A few things I think are possible here:

1) He maybe has not decided.  ( I think he probably has, maybe the court ruling affected him).

2) He has signed, and just is delaying things until after the FedEx Cup

 

3) He is delaying signing to see if he gets the FedEx Cup and becomes #1.   

Note - none of my options are "he has decided to pass on LIV" - I think if that was the case, there would have been some denial yesterday.  By being ambiguous, he keeps the heat on him until there is a decision/announcement.

I tend to think #3.   I am not pro-LIV, but it makes the best business sense for him to hold an offer, and I hope he hasn't been dumb enough to sign while he was world #2 right before the FedEx Cup.   Regardless of what Greg Norman says, the field is NOT determined for 2023 (he also did say they would make room/kick out someone for a top player to come in).
Any $100m offer to Cam Smith is good for a while, that is undervaluing him (based on LIV values where Phil is worth $200m).   
If Cam Smith is FedEx Cup holder and World #1, he can make Greg go back to the Prince to find a couple hundred million more-- hell they were going to pay Hidecki $400m 3 weeks ago!

no dude he’s gone.  He’ll be playing Boston.  Hideki is gone too

[mitchl]

22 minutes ago, Holy Moses said:

What difference does it make to resign?

Because it allows the PGA to immediately make his slot vacant which allows more golfers into the Korn Ferry championship to take that slot.   When he had just declared for LIV, the PGA could not suspend him until he actually tees it up with LIV.  (or that was the point of the suspension before - the golfers announced they were going, but PGA held all punishment until they teed off in London).

[MtlJeff]

32 minutes ago, mitchl said:

You missed nothing.   He made no announcement, other than to say that when there is something to say, he will be the one to say it, and to ignore any other Cams (Cam Percy) on what they say.    

A few things I think are possible here:

1) He maybe has not decided.  ( I think he probably has, maybe the court ruling affected him).

2) He has signed, and just is delaying things until after the FedEx Cup

 

3) He is delaying signing to see if he gets the FedEx Cup and becomes #1.   

Note - none of my options are "he has decided to pass on LIV" - I think if that was the case, there would have been some denial yesterday.  By being ambiguous, he keeps the heat on him until there is a decision/announcement.

I tend to think #3.   I am not pro-LIV, but it makes the best business sense for him to hold an offer, and I hope he hasn't been dumb enough to sign while he was world #2 right before the FedEx Cup.   Regardless of what Greg Norman says, the field is NOT determined for 2023 (he also did say they would make room/kick out someone for a top player to come in).
Any $100m offer to Cam Smith is good for a while, that is undervaluing him (based on LIV values where Phil is worth $200m).   
If Cam Smith is FedEx Cup holder and World #1, he can make Greg go back to the Prince to find a couple hundred million more-- hell they were going to pay Hidecki $400m 3 weeks ago!

 

Tend to agree with your thoughts and i would also bet it's #3 ....He has nothing to lose.

 

The Fedex Cup is a big deal , signing with LIV now on his part is dumb as that offer will be there in a month. He can't go down in value, but if he were to win the Fedex cup or even a couple more tournaments to claim #1 --Maybe that's worth an extra 50-75M or more.

 

Business-wise it would be stupid to sign now, if you think about it.

 

But it could also be as you say that he's having second thoughts. Maybe winning Fedex and 10M+ or whatever, maybe he re-thinks it.

 

Either way, deciding now doesn't seem smart

[slprince67]

35 minutes ago, mitchl said:

You missed nothing.   He made no announcement, other than to say that when there is something to say, he will be the one to say it, and to ignore any other Cams (Cam Percy) on what they say.    

A few things I think are possible here:

1) He maybe has not decided.  ( I think he probably has, maybe the court ruling affected him).

2) He has signed, and just is delaying things until after the FedEx Cup

 

3) He is delaying signing to see if he gets the FedEx Cup and becomes #1.   

Note - none of my options are "he has decided to pass on LIV" - I think if that was the case, there would have been some denial yesterday.  By being ambiguous, he keeps the heat on him until there is a decision/announcement.

I tend to think #3.   I am not pro-LIV, but it makes the best business sense for him to hold an offer, and I hope he hasn't been dumb enough to sign while he was world #2 right before the FedEx Cup.   Regardless of what Greg Norman says, the field is NOT determined for 2023 (he also did say they would make room/kick out someone for a top player to come in).
Any $100m offer to Cam Smith is good for a while, that is undervaluing him (based on LIV values where Phil is worth $200m).   
If Cam Smith is FedEx Cup holder and World #1, he can make Greg go back to the Prince to find a couple hundred million more-- hell they were going to pay Hidecki $400m 3 weeks ago!

I think it is #2..... I think three Aussies signed prior to the Open Championship, Smith, Leishman and Adam Scott.

[idrive]

7 hours ago, bladehunter said:

Let’s not forget the agents personal stake. 10% upfront for them on 200 mil might cause them to put a thumb on the scale of decision. 

 

From several different articles I have read, it's clearly the agents that are pushing their clients harder than anyone/anything. 

 

I believe they end up with up to 20%

 

Worried we may have seen Hideki for the last time on tour as he withdrew today.  Reporting a neck injury. No word about next week yet.

[mannyvizcaya]

7 hours ago, Zitlow said:

 

I pretty much agree, several of my favorite players are playing on the LIV and I like LIV  format. Other than big events the PGAT has turned into a snooze fest for me. 

Then stop watching the PGAT and watch LIV.

I didn't think Tom Kim winning was a snooze fest but to each his own.

[Holy Moses]

46 minutes ago, mitchl said:

Because it allows the PGA to immediately make his slot vacant which allows more golfers into the Korn Ferry championship to take that slot.   When he had just declared for LIV, the PGA could not suspend him until he actually tees it up with LIV.  (or that was the point of the suspension before - the golfers announced they were going, but PGA held all punishment until they teed off in London).

That makes sense. Thanks for the clarification. 

[RDT415]

39 minutes ago, MtlJeff said:

 

 

Business-wise it would be stupid to sign now, if you think about it.

 

Either way, deciding now doesn't seem smart

 

This - I believe he may be in talks with LIV, but from a business point of view as mentioned above, that offer can only get larger. It would be pretty ridiculous for Cam to sign with LIV prior to the FedEx Playoffs.

[Htk084]

40 minutes ago, idrive said:

 

From several different articles I have read, it's clearly the agents that are pushing their clients harder than anyone/anything. 

 

I believe they end up with up to 20%

 

Worried we may have seen Hideki for the last time on tour as he withdrew today.  Reporting a neck injury. No word about next week yet.

told you about him remember?

[sandpounder]

DeChambeau signed for 4.5 years at 28 million/year.  He made 26 million in his 7 year on the PGA.  Most of the money is upfront.  Ian Poulter got 30 million.  DJ about 200 million & Phil about 200 million. 

[Holy Moses]

Judge Freeman lobbed bombs like this at LIV's TRO request in her order on motion: "If LIV Golf is elite golf’s future, what do TRO Plaintiffs care about the dust-collecting trophies of a bygone era?"

 

https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/64865584/63/mickelson-v-pga-tour-inc/

Edited August 11, 2022 by Holy Moses

[Ger21]

7 hours ago, mitchl said:

 The Saudi Arabian tournament was not in North America and not against a significant tournament (it was the ATT Pro Am)

The PGA also stipulated that a release to the Saudi Tournament required the player to play the ATT in the next two years I think.

[bscinstnct]

48 minutes ago, sandpounder said:

DeChambeau signed for 4.5 years at 28 million/year.  He made 26 million in his 7 year on the PGA.  Most of the money is upfront.  Ian Poulter got 30 million.  DJ about 200 million & Phil about 200 million. 

Ya, and BD was honest that he’s looking to do other things besides play golf tournaments. 
 

Liv is a jackpot for many of these guys.

 

As Pat Perez said,

 

I hit the lottery 

 

The actual success of the liv is another story. 
 

All the talent they signed, Phil, DJ, BK, BD, Reed, the old English guys. Billion spent on them?
 

And tickets were selling for $1

 

 

[mosesgolf]

By the looks of things the PGA Tour will always be the PGA Tour as that's where stars are born, majors won, and accomplishments that are highly regarded.    

 

LIV has ended up with a good product of mostly best days behind them but lots of notable names in past major champions, former #1's and players we just love to hate on. 🤣

 

Both organizations will be fine albeit the LIV Tour will be a cash drain for at least 5 years or more.

 

My interest will always be the PGA Tour and I'll likely watch the LIV here and there but to me it's an exhibiton of not the best players in the world.  Even getting Cam Smith or even perhaps Hideki doesn't change a thing.  Other notables and stars will always emerge on the PGA Tour such as future major winners and guys like Tom (Joo Hyung) Kim.  

[oikos1]

Apparently posts that question the PGA Tour in the context of LIV are no longer acceptable at WRX.  Such a shame.

[Gxgolfer]

14 minutes ago, oikos1 said:

Apparently posts that question the PGA Tour in the context of LIV are no longer acceptable at WRX.  Such a shame.

It is such a shame that despite clear rules and warnings people continue to swear, cite politics, Islamaphobia and personal attacks to purposely try to shut down threads. 
 

Please continue your discussions of the LIV Tour here.  Note:

 

1.  No political discussion will be permitted whatsoever, including fund sourcing.  For many of you that have been posting in the LIV threads moderation will seem heavy handed for a time, but the LIV threads have eroded one of the founding principals of GolfWRX and one of the elements that make this place a safe haven on the internet.  Posts will be removed without notice or warning, and it will be within the moderators' full discretion to issue warnings and suspensions to members that can't help themselves.

2.  Reporting by members remains a very important part of moderation on these Forums.  If you are among the majority that love the GolfWRX Forums because of the lack of political discourse and the negativity that permeates much of the internet, it is important that you become comfortable using the Report feature to help the moderators deal with problems.

3.  Post-running and "running the site" will not be tolerated.  This means that if you are posting excessively in the LIV thread or elsewhere, your account may be temporarily suspended.  This will be in the moderators' discretion.

4.  Accounts that appear to have been created for the sole purpose of posting about LIV will be closely examined and may be suspended.

 

Bickering and personal attacks will also not be tolerated.  Please use care when quoting other members and consider what you are posting and why before you post.

[Htk084]

21 minutes ago, oikos1 said:

Apparently posts that question the PGA Tour in the context of LIV are no longer acceptable at WRX.  Such a shame.

Yep, been there too brother.  They only allow the anti-liv posts.  And they’ll allow all the hate in the world for those 

[Gxgolfer]

9 minutes ago, Htk084 said:

Yep, been there too brother.  They only allow the anti-liv posts.  And they’ll allow all the hate in the world for those 

Both these posts make zero sense and earn 14 day posting suspension. 
 

The rules are clearly defined. Any future post questioning moderation will receive a time out.
 

This is the final warning. 

[Sharpee]

2 hours ago, mosesgolf said:

By the looks of things the PGA Tour will always be the PGA Tour as that's where stars are born, majors won, and accomplishments that are highly regarded.    

 

LIV has ended up with a good product of mostly best days behind them but lots of notable names in past major champions, former #1's and players we just love to hate on. 🤣

 

Both organizations will be fine albeit the LIV Tour will be a cash drain for at least 5 years or more.

 

My interest will always be the PGA Tour and I'll likely watch the LIV here and there but to me it's an exhibiton of not the best players in the world.  Even getting Cam Smith or even perhaps Hideki doesn't change a thing.  Other notables and stars will always emerge on the PGA Tour such as future major winners and guys like Tom (Joo Hyung) Kim.  

I agree.  The one thing we know about professional golf is guys like Cam Smith come and go - I actually don't blame him for cashing in while he can because the odds are against him.  Does show some character weakness though. 

 

Very few stay for the long-term - the PGA will survive and continue to produce the next generation of stars and CS will get lulled into a competitive nap with Phil, Pat, DJ etc

[sg91]

The court has issued it's written opinion on the TRO if anyone's interested

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DaPkL4Glu-5vq8aSlBdb0XrQjRN6JMer/view

[BlackDiamondPar5]

7 hours ago, mosesgolf said:

By the looks of things the PGA Tour will always be the PGA Tour as that's where stars are born, majors won, and accomplishments that are highly regarded.    

 

LIV has ended up with a good product of mostly best days behind them but lots of notable names in past major champions, former #1's and players we just love to hate on. 🤣

 

Both organizations will be fine albeit the LIV Tour will be a cash drain for at least 5 years or more.

 

My interest will always be the PGA Tour and I'll likely watch the LIV here and there but to me it's an exhibiton of not the best players in the world.  Even getting Cam Smith or even perhaps Hideki doesn't change a thing.  Other notables and stars will always emerge on the PGA Tour such as future major winners and guys like Tom (Joo Hyung) Kim.  

So in other words, LIV is sort of like the Champions Tour but for younger guys and for many guys that never were champions 🙂

 

Nice to see the court gave a narrow legal win for the good guys. But I'll take one earned victory at a time. 

 

Now I'll be quiet again 🙂

 

[dciccoritti]

Can't help but feel the trickle effect is purposeful. 1 to 2 players every couple of weeks or so. Keeps them in the news cycle and more importantly, makes it seem like they're building momentum. Weekly drama keeps everyone talking.

 

I'll be curious to see what happens when everything settles and all that's left to do the talking are the tournaments themselves. That is unless their actual schtick IS defections and drama.

[Kentpaul1986]

I don't blame the players for jumping ship, because as sportsman you are only one injury away from never playing again, so take the money and run because I would do the same.

[hunterdog]

4 hours ago, sg91 said:

The court has issued it's written opinion on the TRO if anyone's interested

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DaPkL4Glu-5vq8aSlBdb0XrQjRN6JMer/view

Thanks

[tiderider]

4 hours ago, sg91 said:

The court has issued it's written opinion on the TRO if anyone's interested

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DaPkL4Glu-5vq8aSlBdb0XrQjRN6JMer/view

well, not a total loss for the liv plaintiffs ... court did find that their filing was 'timely' and did not have to be made earlier ... so there's that, gregory ... 

[Gregakin]

6 hours ago, Sharpee said:

I agree.  The one thing we know about professional golf is guys like Cam Smith come and go - I actually don't blame him for cashing in while he can because the odds are against him.  Does show some character weakness though. 

 

Very few stay for the long-term - the PGA will survive and continue to produce the next generation of stars and CS will get lulled into a competitive nap with Phil, Pat, DJ etc

Yup. Look at DJ, he can't win on the LIV series playing against a watered down field, with maybe 10 guys who match his talent.  BK? When is the last time he was relevant.  These once rising stars are already forgotten only 2 years removed.  IMO they don't care either and playing for Majors is a thing of the past to them.

 

Golf is hard.  A 5-10% drop in performance and you're an avg. tour player - Regards, Ricky Fowler

Edited August 11, 2022 by Gregakin

[Holy Moses]

5 hours ago, sg91 said:

The court has issued it's written opinion on the TRO if anyone's interested

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DaPkL4Glu-5vq8aSlBdb0XrQjRN6JMer/view

I am also really interested in the transcripts of Tuesday’s trial. I don’t think anyone was allowed to make a copy of the Zoom call. From what I gather, the transcripts don't come out for free for 90 days and to get them earlier you have to pay like $6 a page and request them.