LIV Tour Discussion Thread (*** NO POLITICS ***)

[Oneput]

'Regarding the Section 2 claim that PGA TOUR engaged in unlawful maintenance of a monopoly,...On this claim, as well as the Section 1 claim, the Court acknowledges that TRO Plaintiffs raise significant antitrust issues that are facially appealing. But PGA TOUR has responded with preliminary evidence and argument potentially exposing fundamental flaws in Plaintiffs’ claims. These complex issues are best resolved on a more developed record.'

 

Does PGA Tour face antitrust issues?

 

 

 

 

[bscinstnct]

Decent explanation of the tro ruling and the viability of the larger lawsuit.

 

Keep in mind, Leitzinger was the plaintiffs own witness. And the judge (as cited earlier than the quote in my quote below) had some interesting thoughts on his report from the get-go. 

 

 

 

“We, at The Fried Egg, asked a few attorneys what they thought this meant. In the words of one other lawyer we spoke with: 

 

This case is going nowhere. It’s deader than a doornail. It’s clear the judge sees LIV as a viable competitor to the PGA Tour. The Leitzinger Report says that players have voluntarily foregone the certainty associated with the PGA Tour, the FedEx Cup, and the coveted majors spots in exchange for upfront payments. That is evidence of a functioning marketplace – not monopolistic behavior.”

 

 

 

 

Edited August 11, 2022 by bscinstnct

[jdl]

 

[mitchl]

Patrick Reed and Chase Koepka are T78 +1, 9 strokes back of lead, after round 1 of the Singapore Open.    Looks like maybe about 10 LIVers are in this thing.   Reed the only one in the Top 50, and only 4 in top 100.

[Rob G 89]

Richard Bland currently leading the DP tour world event, so much for losing your game or not caring

[Holy Moses]

1 hour ago, Oneput said:

'Regarding the Section 2 claim that PGA TOUR engaged in unlawful maintenance of a monopoly,...On this claim, as well as the Section 1 claim, the Court acknowledges that TRO Plaintiffs raise significant antitrust issues that are facially appealing. But PGA TOUR has responded with preliminary evidence and argument potentially exposing fundamental flaws in Plaintiffs’ claims. These complex issues are best resolved on a more developed record.'

 

Does PGA Tour face antitrust issues?

 

 

 

 

Maybe, but as the judge said on first glance they exposed fundamental flaws in the players’ case. 

[MtlJeff]

1 hour ago, Oneput said:

'Regarding the Section 2 claim that PGA TOUR engaged in unlawful maintenance of a monopoly,...On this claim, as well as the Section 1 claim, the Court acknowledges that TRO Plaintiffs raise significant antitrust issues that are facially appealing. But PGA TOUR has responded with preliminary evidence and argument potentially exposing fundamental flaws in Plaintiffs’ claims. These complex issues are best resolved on a more developed record.'

 

Does PGA Tour face antitrust issues?

 

 

 

 

 

The lawsuit brought forth by the players was always less interesting to me, as i've stated that it's kind of comical to want to go to a competitor and then work part time for your previous employer, even if that employer's filing may somewhat support your "right"

 

But the Anti-Trust stuff is far more interesting. I don't know what will happen with that--But i hope something does in the way of at least seriously investigating this. Especially if some of the accusations are correct and i'd probably bet they are.

 

Some of the most troubling accusations are the Tour's apparent threats against peripheral companies like Tent vendors, software people, Caterers etc. There is like 15-20 companies referenced, all of whom apparently were in talks with LIV and then backed out. These are midsize/smaller companies sometimes that could really use extra revenue LIV provides (these aren't multi-millionaires like the players for example), not to mention the extra competition potentially improving their fees. This is of course was also likely intended to keep LIV from launching successful , professionally done tournaments

 

I'm not an expert on the Sherman act or anything, so who knows. But it's a good example above of why sometimes monopolies are bad, as it affects lots of people we might not think about. I hope they are actually investigated.

 

I mean, at the end of the day you remove the fact that golfers are 1% 'ers and it sports and who cares about millionaires etc.....This is basically an organization trying to destroy a competitor through connections because they don't want , or can't, compete with it's wages. Which would force people back to working for them for less money. In normal circumstances, we'd probably be outraged by this.

 

[forrester_fire]

13 hours ago, RDT415 said:

 

This - I believe he may be in talks with LIV, but from a business point of view as mentioned above, that offer can only get larger. It would be pretty ridiculous for Cam to sign with LIV prior to the FedEx Playoffs.

 

I don't think it matters if he signs prior to FedEx.  Now, if he tees it up in a LIV event prior to the FedEx, that's an entirely different story.

Edited August 11, 2022 by forrester_fire

[Rory4Pres]

Timing is interesting since the Fed Ex cup just started but according to reports, both Cameron Smith and Cameron Young are joining LIV.  (they were the 1-2 finishers at this year's Open).  Cameron Smith is getting $100 million.  Initially he was offered $90 million from what I read and held out until they raised it another $10 mil.  Not sure what Young is getting but I'm guessing it's in the $30-60 million range.

 

The cherry picking of the PGA Tour's top talent continues.

[wildcatden]

It's a lot of money to turn down. However, there must be some serious unrest within the ranks of the PGA Tour and the PGA Tour execs for this level of abandonment to be happening.  We are just not hearing about it.

[Krt22]

1 hour ago, Rob G 89 said:

Richard Bland currently leading the DP tour world event, so much for losing your game or not caring

That is like saying a MLB pitcher coming off tommy john surgery is ready because he threw a 2 hitter in a AA game

[ahenderX]

31 minutes ago, Rory4Pres said:

Timing is interesting since the Fed Ex cup just started but according to reports, both Cameron Smith and Cameron Young are joining LIV.  (they were the 1-2 finishers at this year's Open).  Cameron Smith is getting $100 million.  Initially he was offered $90 million from what I read and held out until they raised it another $10 mil.  Not sure what Young is getting but I'm guessing it's in the $30-60 million range.

 

The cherry picking of the PGA Tour's top talent continues.

Cameron Young going to LIV was poorly sourced. Most have walked back their comment.

[bscinstnct]

 

[woodriff]

18 hours ago, RH82 said:

Any Canadians know why the last LIV event was on CHCH? I nearly fell off my chair when I seen it on tv a few weeks ago.

A friend of mine in Toronto alerted me to that. Certainly not available on the prairies. Maybe a fill of some kind. Really not too sure. Make a note and see if they carry it again for the next event. What did you think of the coverage? 

[smashdn]

44 minutes ago, Rory4Pres said:

Timing is interesting since the Fed Ex cup just started but according to reports, both Cameron Smith and Cameron Young are joining LIV.  (they were the 1-2 finishers at this year's Open).  Cameron Smith is getting $100 million.  Initially he was offered $90 million from what I read and held out until they raised it another $10 mil.  Not sure what Young is getting but I'm guessing it's in the $30-60 million range.

 

The cherry picking of the PGA Tour's top talent continues.

 

It was supposed to be that way in the sense it was intended to be a league of the best competing against the best.  From the LIV standpoint it was supposed to be fluid so long as those who signed the contracts played in the LIV events ahead of competing other tour events.  In the "off weeks" I don't think LIV cares where they play.

 

On the other hand, PGAT and DPT have closed the doors behind those players.  They made it into an all or nothing proposition.

 

If Hideki Matsuyama, for whatever reason, wanted to play a full season on the Japan Tour, and he did not meet his 15 event minimum for the PGAT, would he be suspended or banned from returning?  He may lose his exemptions or may have to requalify to regain his card at worse but he would likely not be suspended.

[khalespace]

Unfortunately Marc Leishman is playing like he wants a raise from GN. -5 after 10 holes and leading St Jude Championship.

[mitchl]

8 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

exactly.    His dad is a PGA professional and I think his coach.   Cam Young going would be really weird.   

 

And if we are to believe the other stuff…. Hidecki is going for $400m, and Cam Smith is going for $100m.  
I know that you have to throw logic out when dealing with LIV which has no workable business case, but there is something wrong with those deals…. Or they aren’t real. 

[Rory4Pres]

25 minutes ago, ahenderX said:

Cameron Young going to LIV was poorly sourced. Most have walked back their comment.

Sorry, just read it this morning.  Thought it was interesting and worth sharing.  Apparently it was inaccurate news.  Can't remember the source but it was a normal golf one on google. 

[jonsnow]

On 8/9/2022 at 9:42 PM, bscinstnct said:

I have to say that liv will make things very interesting over the next few years 

 

Not that I anticipate I’ll ever be interested in watching it.

 

But it’s been some time since I had anything so good to hate and openly root for to fail!

 

🤣

 

 

 

 

Not me. I've always got Auburn's football team.

[RH82]

32 minutes ago, woodriff said:

A friend of mine in Toronto alerted me to that. Certainly not available on the prairies. Maybe a fill of some kind. Really not too sure. Make a note and see if they carry it again for the next event. What did you think of the coverage? 

It was just as unwatchable as it was on YT.

[betarhoalphadelta]

41 minutes ago, smashdn said:

 

If Hideki Matsuyama, for whatever reason, wanted to play a full season on the Japan Tour, and he did not meet his 15 event minimum for the PGAT, would he be suspended or banned from returning?  He may lose his exemptions or may have to requalify to regain his card at worse but he would likely not be suspended.

 

If you read the PGA Tour guidelines, foreign-born players are able to play as many events on their "home" tour as they want, without requiring releases. 

 

This is of course different than the 15-event requirement from the PGA Tour and the two shouldn't be conflated.

 

But as long as Hideki met his 15-event requirement, he can play every other week of the year on the Japan tour without causing any issues with his PGA Tour membership.

[ahenderX]

32 minutes ago, Rory4Pres said:

Sorry, just read it this morning.  Thought it was interesting and worth sharing.  Apparently it was inaccurate news.  Can't remember the source but it was a normal golf one on google. 

I also posted saying he was. All articles referenced a Times article which was behind a paywall. The Times led off with the statement as a teaser with the details behind the paywall. 

[OKMrazor]

5 hours ago, Gregakin said:

 These once rising stars are already forgotten only 2 years removed.  

They can hit bombs and putt to Devo, Timbuk 3 + the rest of the one-hit-wonder has-beens blaring on the PA system.  They won't be missed by the time 2023 rolls around, save for the chuckles surrounding episodes like Bryson's meltdown over his sponsor's driver set-up.

[bscinstnct]

58 minutes ago, mitchl said:

exactly.    His dad is a PGA professional and I think his coach.   Cam Young going would be really weird.   

 

And if we are to believe the other stuff…. Hidecki is going for $400m, and Cam Smith is going for $100m.  
I know that you have to throw logic out when dealing with LIV which has no workable business case, but there is something wrong with those deals…. Or they aren’t real. 

 

Well, I don’t see any video of any interviews with CY at the st Jude’s. 
 

And somebody better go interview him soon cause don’t look like he playin so good! 
 

Good that this guy says he got this from young’s parents. But young people have been known to keep things from their parents lol

Edited August 11, 2022 by bscinstnct

[drbonesvt]

15 hours ago, Holy Moses said:

Judge Freeman lobbed bombs like this at LIV's TRO request in her order on motion: "If LIV Golf is elite golf’s future, what do TRO Plaintiffs care about the dust-collecting trophies of a bygone era?"

 

https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/64865584/63/mickelson-v-pga-tour-inc/

Thanks for sharing that 

[RDT415]

3 hours ago, forrester_fire said:

 

I don't think it matters if he signs prior to FedEx.  Now, if he tees it up in a LIV event prior to the FedEx, that's an entirely different story.

 

Yes exactly - thank you for clarifying that. 

[idrive]

Latest "rumor" says Cam's deal is for $140 mil.

 

They're all wrong. It's for $149.52356 mil.  Don't forget, you heard it here first!!

 

I must admit I'm going to be disappointed to see him go but quite frankly there's never been so much talent coming through the door. Time to meet and greet these guys.

 

We live in a what have you done for me lately world. Besides playing the part of a puppet these guys have not done anything for anybody other than for themselves. Playing in an exhibition is already stale. Isn't going to matter who you rotate in or out. Same guys, same loud obnoxious music and a very repulsive GN.

 

The fact that DJ hasn't won an exhibition yet should speak volumes for how much practice time he's putting in.

 

 

 

 

[Krt22]

2 hours ago, khalespace said:

Unfortunately Marc Leishman is playing like he wants a raise from GN. -5 after 10 holes and leading St Jude Championship.

Whoops

[the bishop]

6 hours ago, Rob G 89 said:

Richard Bland currently leading the DP tour world event, so much for losing your game or not caring

Richard freaking Bland.  The standard bearer for the new world order in the game.

 

edit:  And in fairness to Richard, good on him.  He was one of the few who was honest about his situation given his age and place in the game.  He was clear it was an opportunity to create a better retirement for himself in the time he has left to still be an effective player.  He also acknowledged the risk of being suspended at the time and was ok with it.  So since the DPWT is still allowing LIV golfers to play then go play and do well.  I hope he wins.

Edited August 11, 2022 by the bishop

[me05501]

Stenson's caddie played college golf here and still calls our city home. He's been around town telling people Henrik gave him $500,000 after his recent LIV victory. Needless to say, he doesn't miss the PGAT (yet).