LIV Tour Discussion Thread (*** NO POLITICS ***)

[Hawkeye77]

Maybe mentioned but just heard on GC that Ortiz has dropped out as a plaintiff. For whatever reason (and LIV was paying all his legal expenses) he dropped out, another short term PGA Tour PR win. 

[Krt22]

48 minutes ago, Frankensteins Monster said:

He would have to start from scratch to play on tour. He wouldn’t be able to just go play on the PGA Tour again. He’s going to take a ‘Ferry’ back to the PGA Tour. He won’t be good enough to compete on the PGA Tour with a year of fake “events” that have no stress on them. His tournament career is over. 

I don't think that is true. He would still have status from his US open win if he was only gone a year. He might get a kicker on that as well for winning the API. Being suspended doesn't invalidate his previous accomplishments

[Hardluckster]

55 minutes ago, Holy Moses said:

Does anyone have a clip of the plaintiff’s lawyers saying that some winnings (from LIV, the FedEx Cup?) would be recouped against advances? I would like to listen to it in context.

I agree. 

 

Personally, I suspect that this could have a bearing on the LIV tour being granted OWGR points. 

 

I have always been of the opinion that the LIV guys would still have a very good reason to all be very competitive ($4M reasons/event). If the higher pre-paid players have contacts structured to repay their signing bonus from their tournament winnings, my views on competition would very likely change. 

 

I suspect that the OWGR committee might feel the same way. 

[Hawkeye77]

11 minutes ago, gsrjc said:

I’d be curious if after this news, Smith is using whatever power if legal to not join LIV.  Perhaps that was his reasoning for not saying anything because he is in limbo land at the moment. 

Maybe, but the $100 million sure seems real and the planning for the announcement after the playoffs may be why he can’t say he’s gone?

[Holy Moses]

43 minutes ago, doctorbloor said:

Curious as to why you think that's the case.  The talent loss hasn't been apocalyptic thus far, and most viewers have the long term loyalty/awareness of the mooks at the end of The Truman Show, who just change the channel after his grand farewell.

The coming ratings loss without Bryson, DJ, Brooks, and Phil isn’t good for the Tour

[mitchl]

7 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

Maybe, but the $100 million sure seems real and the planning for the announcement after the playoffs may be why he can’t say he’s gone?

if he wins the FedEx Cup and is #1 in 4 weeks, he needs to demand just a little more than $100m

[tatertot]

Question I may just be ignorant of ... were the LIV bonuses paid in one lump sum, or are they made in payments over time, or by tournament, or in some other pre-determined way? If so, if LIV would happen to fold, are they guaranteed?

[Holy Moses]

25 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

I have to say that liv will make things very interesting over the next few years 

 

Not that I anticipate I’ll ever be interested in watching it.

 

But it’s been some time since I had anything so good to hate and openly root for to fail!

 

🤣

 

 

 

 

The news around LIV and the PGA Tour is interesting. Problem is that both Tours are having some meh tournaments and the golf isn’t interesting. 

[mitchl]

55 minutes ago, Holy Moses said:

I bet after their suspension the PGA Tour puts them right into the Korn Ferry Finals or gives them whatever exempt years they had left when they bolted for LIV. The PGA Tour really needs these players back sooner than later.

they do?    I don’t think the PGA misses anyone except maybe DJ and Ancer.
 

 

[drbonesvt]

2 hours ago, Holy Moses said:

He still has at least 3 more years of majors. I don’t think Bryson wants to grind like he did on the PGA Tour. He wants to be a Youtuber and do different things. 

Long drive ban him?

[mitchl]

2 minutes ago, tatertot said:

Question I may just be ignorant of ... were the LIV bonuses paid in one lump sum, or are they made in payments over time, or by tournament, or in some other pre-determined way? If so, if LIV would happen to fold, are they guaranteed?

I don’t think we know this yet.. it may come out in discovery.   From one of the articles, the bigger contracts pay a portion annually over the term of the contract.

 

of the LIV corporation were to fold, doubt you could get a check out if the Saudis

[gsrjc]

12 minutes ago, mitchl said:

if he wins the FedEx Cup and is #1 in 4 weeks, he needs to demand just a little more than $100m

I would agree. I’m also curious if he did sign and won’t go until after the presidents cup then wouldn’t he basically be playing in 2023?  Perhaps by not saying, he can still play on the PGA tour and not be suspended?

[drbonesvt]

LIV players can sure Norman for malpractice, oh that’s right he’s not attorney 

[Holy Moses]

14 minutes ago, mitchl said:

I don’t think we know this yet.. it may come out in discovery.   From one of the articles, the bigger contracts pay a portion annually over the term of the contract.

 

of the LIV corporation were to fold, doubt you could get a check out if the Saudis

I think I heard they come in yearly installments 

[Holy Moses]

16 minutes ago, drbonesvt said:

Long drive ban him?

No way

[mitchl]

9 minutes ago, gsrjc said:

I would agree. I’m also curious if he did sign and won’t go until after the presidents cup then wouldn’t he basically be playing in 2023?  Perhaps by not saying, he can still play on the PGA tour and not be suspended?

As for what the PGA said before, he gets suspended once he tees it up in LIV.    If he actually notifies the PGA Tour he has signed a contract, who knows what they will do.

 

[jordan2240]

43 minutes ago, tbowles411 said:

Heck, I'd watch YOU play.

I would definitely watch a tournament with golfwrxers, but they'd have to have their screen names on the back of their shirts - a LIV exhibition, not so much.

[scores]

This is a win for LIV? before you jump down my throat think about this.. They retain players plus now they state maybe we should go 72 holes?? so you can get world ranking points...

 

LiV -- has plenty of money do you think Rick Fowler will go to Korn ferry  ?? or jump on the LIV train.

 

This gives Norman the fire power to play 72 holes and yes they will get world ranking points ..

[sandpounder]

46 minutes ago, gsrjc said:

I’d be curious if after this news, Smith is using whatever power if legal to not join LIV.  Perhaps that was his reasoning for not saying anything because he is in limbo land at the moment. 

Smith most likely has joined LIV and wants to play in the Fed Ex Cup Playoffs also.  We will learn soon whether he has joined as reported.  If he has, he will not be playing in the Fed Ex.

[bekgolf]

The Sun is reporting that Cameron Smith is planning on playing the Fedex playoffs.  It's also reporting the he starts with liv on September 2 and signed for 83 million pounds.

[farmer]

I was a huge Phil fan, but no more.  The other guys have not done enough to move my needle.  Brooks got hot, won the 4 majors but he has not torn up the tour since.  BDC, I kind of enjoyed.  If I never see Reed or Perez again, my life will still be full.  Majors?  Don't know.  The Open's will be available although most will have to go through local qualifying.  The Master's is a bit of a wild card.  The Master's is an invitational, players can qualify in different ways, but I doubt a LIV win is going to get an invitation.  Players are qualified for life, but they did tell Doug Ford he was no longer welcome to play.  The powers that be at ANGC may decide the LIV players would not meet the Master's image.  The PGA may follow the tour.

I question whether playing for two or three years in what amounts to a high dollar member-guest will prepare LIV players for the pressure of playing in a no-kidding, grind it out tournament.

[golfgirlrobin]

A couple of things that interested me. The idea that the more names that LIV sign, the weaker it’s overall case. Even today, the judge was impressed with their list of players who were on last year’s PIP list.  Very hard to argue the Tour is anti-competitive when you’ve poached half their most popular players.

 

Secondly, the idea that some LIV player who gets dropped and has no professional tour to fall back on, could sue Norman for making false representations. If players relied upon his assertions that they couldn’t be suspended for a single day when making their decision to sign with LIV, a decent lawyer could turn that into an interesting legal action. I’d enjoy watching that.

 

Jay Monahan must be beside himself happy with the idea of a 2025 court date. Let players watch their OWGR points drop and their opportunities dry up and see what happens.

[NMBob]

1 hour ago, Holy Moses said:

The news around LIV and the PGA Tour is interesting. Problem is that both Tours are having some meh tournaments and the golf isn’t interesting. 

 

i think the liv week 8, 4 days of team match play will be pretty interesting.  but that's what, over 2 months away.....

 

 

[Krt22]

38 minutes ago, NMBob said:

 

i think the liv week 8, 4 days of team match play will be pretty interesting.  but that's what, over 2 months away.....

 

 

Is it really interesting when we know they are playing with house money? A huge allure of golf of all aspects is that each stroke actually means something. A beer, a few bucks, a few racks for degenerates at country clubs, a tour card, aetc. With LIV there is nothing on the line, its a farce.

 

It would be far more interesting if they could play wolf hammer at 25k a point and actually wager some of their guaranteed money

[bladehunter]

1 hour ago, tatertot said:

Question I may just be ignorant of ... were the LIV bonuses paid in one lump sum, or are they made in payments over time, or by tournament, or in some other pre-determined way? If so, if LIV would happen to fold, are they guaranteed?

Remember what Tommy boy said about guarantees. 😂. 
 

 

[mitchl]

1 hour ago, bekgolf said:

The Sun is reporting that Cameron Smith is planning on playing the Fedex playoffs.  It's also reporting the he starts with liv on September 2 and signed for 83 million pounds.

 

The number they keep throwing out lately is 100m dollars (83m pounds).  Assuming that is 4 years - that's $25m a year.

If what the LIV lawyer said is true that includes any prize money that he would get, then he is getting a flat $25m a year.

 

This year, so far, he made $10m on course.   He is also likely in line for some serious PIP dollars, lets say at least $5m.

He may not have $10m in sponsorships, but lets say half that - at $5m.   

So his income for this year will be $20m.     Yes, this could be his top year, and be all downhill after this.

But if it's not, he could make $20+m a year for the next 4,5,6 years.   

 

So LIV is a guarantee $100m over 4 years.   He may not have as many sponsorships, and he doesn't know if he will be able to play in majors - and certainly his OWGR will start to fall like a rock once he stops playing ranked tournaments.

That's a lot of gambling over $20m extra out of LIV, if it is even that.   And if he has friends on the PGA Tour, he won't after he leaves.   But he will have Pat Perez, Patrick Reed, and Charles Howell III to hang out with.    And it's going to be interesting to see how everyone gets along after the entire world finds out what Norman paid each golfer.   

[CasualLie]

1 hour ago, scores said:

This is a win for LIV? before you jump down my throat think about this.. They retain players plus now they state maybe we should go 72 holes?? so you can get world ranking points...

 

LiV -- has plenty of money do you think Rick Fowler will go to Korn ferry  ?? or jump on the LIV train.

 

This gives Norman the fire power to play 72 holes and yes they will get world ranking points ..

 

And why would Rick go to Korn Ferry?  He has one more year of exemption on PGAT.

[mitchl]

1 hour ago, golfgirlrobin said:

A couple of things that interested me. The idea that the more names that LIV sign, the weaker it’s overall case. Even today, the judge was impressed with their list of players who were on last year’s PIP list.  Very hard to argue the Tour is anti-competitive when you’ve poached half their most popular players.

 

Secondly, the idea that some LIV player who gets dropped and has no professional tour to fall back on, could sue Norman for making false representations. If players relied upon his assertions that they couldn’t be suspended for a single day when making their decision to sign with LIV, a decent lawyer could turn that into an interesting legal action. I’d enjoy watching that.

 

Jay Monahan must be beside himself happy with the idea of a 2025 court date. Let players watch their OWGR points drop and their opportunities dry up and see what happens.

 Your #1 point I have been saying all along.   LIV signed the #2 PIP player.  They signed the guy at the #2 OWGR for 2021.   And they got Pat Perez.  How can you say that the PGA tour has people locked up.  Again--- they got Pat Perez.   

Your #2 point, I doubt they could sue Norman over that.  If a player didn't consult his own attorney and agent in making the decision, then it's on him--- not Norman.   A player taking Norman's word on that the PGA Tour can't suspend them for a single day is a moron.   The players may might have a case against their own agents for not protecting them.  
But they do also have a professional tour to fall back on - the Asian Tour.  And it sounded a couple weeks back that if they get relegated out of the main LIV roster, that they may have to go back and play on the Asian Tour to fulfill their contract.

#3 - last I was hearing is Sept 2023 court date.   And the OWGR points are going to be dropping like a rock.  Phil is out of the top 100 now, and he won a major last year.   A whole batch of LIV'rs are about to drop out of the top 50, and DJ, currently the highest rank LIVr is at 18, and will be falling through the 20s in the next month or so.

Edited August 10, 2022 by mitchl

[mitchl]

1 hour ago, scores said:

This is a win for LIV? before you jump down my throat think about this.. They retain players plus now they state maybe we should go 72 holes?? so you can get world ranking points...

 

LiV -- has plenty of money do you think Rick Fowler will go to Korn ferry  ?? or jump on the LIV train.

 

This gives Norman the fire power to play 72 holes and yes they will get world ranking points ..

 

The 72 holes vs 54 holes is not the biggest barrier to the OWGR.  The biggest issue is the closed 48 person field.   
Even if they allow it, the 48 person field significantly impacts the strength of field in comparison with other tours.  

If they expand that to 96 person fields and institute a cut, are they going to keep it closed to just the people Norman wants there?   Are they going to be putting all 96 players under contracts for tens of millions each and pay out $50m purses at each tournament?   Are they going to continue with the team thing?   If they go past 54 players, the scramble thing doesn't work as well.    Also, are they going to change the name LIV and all that Club 54 logo everywhere?

[So_Cal]

3 hours ago, Holy Moses said:

The coming ratings loss without Bryson, DJ, Brooks, and Phil isn’t good for the Tour

Did anyone think golf was fun to watch even with those guys?  Tiger is gone and so is the juice.  Other than the back 9 of majors everything, I mean everything is a snooze fest.  LIV is 10x worse.  You have to be a pretty big loser to watch a shotgun exhibition at a dog track like Rich Harvest Farms.  Golf is boring but it just got even more so.  The next good tournament is the Masters.