Congratulations Retief

24

Comments

  • IVMIVM Members Posts: 454 ✭✭
    bscinstnct wrote:

    IVM wrote:


    Congratulations to Retief . A quality player who won 2 US Opens and won tournaments all over the world .




    Agree. What's the problem?


    There is not one .
  • Darth PutterDarth Putter Members Posts: 4,766 ✭✭
    Ferguson wrote:

    cgbm wrote:

    Ferguson wrote:
    HOF - what are the latest qualifications?



    A good haircut, a few wins and the ability to do a card trick?







    CASE IN POINT - Fred Couples

    Like his game and loved watching him play but he should NOT be in the Hall.




    He is about 54th on the pga tour win list. And there are 160 in the hall of fame. How does he not fit in? Masters winner. 62 professional wins.



    Hes rightfully in the HOF






    Only 1 major, that he barely won. Fred got in due to popularity.



    Another guy to think about - if handsome Adam Scott retires with his current number of wins and only 1 major, I would say the same thing about him.

    He stays out.







    For player nominees, I think the HOF should be a minimum of:



    2-majors with 15 wins minimum

    - or -

    1-major and 20 PGA wins




    among the current Hall of Famers eliminated



    Harry Cooper 31 wins 0 majors

    Tom Kite 19/1 (Dustin Johnson would need one more win to qualify)

    Tommy Bolt and Fred Couples 15/1

    Jock Hutchison 14/2

    Ken Venturi 14/1

    Roberto De Vicenzo 8/1 (I assume it's 15 PGA Tour wins, these international players will clear 15 overall wins)

    David Graham 8/2

    Lawson Little 8/1

    Chi Chi Rodriguez 8/0

    Retief Goosen 7/2
    swing is irrelevant, score is everything

    just say NO.... to practice swings
  • wcbjrwcbjr Members Posts: 2,794 ✭✭


    Adam Scott is in on the merit that he was world number 1 .

    Only 22 people have done that under the current system . Being the best at your profession at the time your doing should be HOF




    Luke Donald? Probably not.
  • ShilgyShilgy Members Posts: 11,394 ✭✭
    Who was a higher rated player in his era? Couples or Wadkins?



    If Lanny is in Freddie deserves to be as well.
    WITB
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    To paraphrase Dr Seuss: Don't cry because the round of golf is over-smile because it happened . :)

    Game is recovering from total ankle replacement. Getting there and glad to be pain free!
  • lowheellowheel LOWHEEL Members Posts: 6,147 ✭✭
    Shilgy wrote:


    Who was a higher rated player in his era? Couples or Wadkins?



    If Lanny is in Freddie deserves to be as well.




    I rate Wadkins above Couples. Hype Versus results
  • cdnglfcdnglf Members Posts: 3,189 ✭✭
    edited Oct 10, 2018 #37
    Shilgy wrote:


    Who was a higher rated player in his era? Couples or Wadkins?



    If Lanny is in Freddie deserves to be as well.




    Both are south of the DL3 line.
  • cgbmcgbm Members Posts: 1,041 ✭✭
    Couples was the first american to reach world number one.



    As a world number 1 you prob should be in the hof
  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day.... Members Posts: 25,892 ✭✭
    cgbm wrote:


    Couples was the first american to reach world number one.



    As a world number 1 you prob should be in the hof




    If you stay there longer than say, 3 months straight. This “ I’m #1 for a day or two. Or 3 weeks is nonsense and in my eyes doesn’t really count.
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  • cgbmcgbm Members Posts: 1,041 ✭✭
    Ok. So he did 16 weeks at number 1.



    Good nuff?
  • Bingo1976Bingo1976 Members Posts: 2,507 ✭✭
    cgbm wrote:


    Ok. So he did 16 weeks at number 1.



    Good nuff?




    Ah, then we need to set the bar at 17 weeks....



    HoF is a dumb idea anyway, it's just some random building in a swamp in Florida.
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  • FootWedge16FootWedge16 Members Posts: 251 ✭✭
    edited Oct 10, 2018 #42
    Bingo1976 wrote:

    cgbm wrote:


    Ok. So he did 16 weeks at number 1.



    Good nuff?




    Ah, then we need to set the bar at 17 weeks....



    HoF is a dumb idea anyway, it's just some random building in a swamp in Florida.




    Great idea or dumb idea, Goosen definitely doesn’t belong in it.
  • bscinstnctbscinstnct Members Posts: 26,403 ✭✭
    Bingo1976 wrote:

    cgbm wrote:


    Ok. So he did 16 weeks at number 1.



    Good nuff?




    Ah, then we need to set the bar at 17 weeks....



    HoF is a dumb idea anyway, it's just some random building in a swamp in Florida.




    Rough morning for the Asian markets. We feelin it too.



    But no need to take it out on Florida ; )
  • iBanestoiBanesto Niclas Fasth Members Posts: 4,452 ✭✭
    Congrats to Retief Goosen.



    In my opinion, this is one of the best rounds of golf ever played.



    [media]
  • Aaronwilson_95Aaronwilson_95 Members Posts: 829 ✭✭
    wcbjr wrote:



    Adam Scott is in on the merit that he was world number 1 .

    Only 22 people have done that under the current system . Being the best at your profession at the time your doing should be HOF




    Luke Donald? Probably not.


    While not as “impressive with no majors “

    He was ahead of Rory bubba , bubba , rose , woods Mickelson Johnson to name a few

    http://dps.endavadigital.net/owgr/doc/content/archive/2012/owgr21f2012.pdf



    I think being owgr number 1 is still underrated and for that alone he should be in HOF.
  • smeech8000smeech8000 Ev'ryday I'm Trufflin' Members Posts: 2,419 ✭✭

    wcbjr wrote:



    Adam Scott is in on the merit that he was world number 1 .

    Only 22 people have done that under the current system . Being the best at your profession at the time your doing should be HOF




    Luke Donald? Probably not.


    While not as "impressive with no majors "

    He was ahead of Rory bubba , bubba , rose , woods Mickelson Johnson to name a few

    http://dps.endavadig...owgr21f2012.pdf



    I think being owgr number 1 is still underrated and for that alone he should be in HOF.




    A tremendous feat, no doubt. Donald sat on the throne for 40 consecutive weeks at his peak in 2011-12, 56 weeks in all after trading seats with Rory throughout the summer of 2012. But no majors, not even a Players', and his win total is one shy of the requisite 15 under current qualification criteria.



    What about Martin Kaymer? 8 weeks total, 2 majors and 23 professional wins (3 PGA, 11 Euro) - he is in under current criteria.



    Lee Westwood? 22 weeks total, 42 professional wins (2 PGA, 23 Euro - good for T-8 all-time on the ET) - also good enough under current criteria.



    So despite Donald having the more impressive run as #1, he never closed the deal in one of the 5 biggest events during that span, and his career win total would keep him out were his career to end today. Luke Donald is not a name that will be memorable 50 years from now. Granted, guys like Shaun Micheel or Ben Curtis may not be either, but at least they have the potential to be an answer to a trivia question!



    Weight should be given to a stint at #1, but I'm not sure how you normalize it for length. Under the current criteria, a win is a win is a win, but how do you weight a 2-week #1 vs. a 20-week #1? Too much subjectivity IMO.





    The WGHOF assigns special value to winning the Players', which (IMO) is one of the reasons Couples' record is superior to that of Scott's. Also two Vardon's and POTY's. Probably a bit of a penalty against Adam on that front as he has played more internationally rather than focusing on the PGA Tour, but I think this is a great comparison of a couple guys that could have achieved so much more. Many reasons why they didn't.



    Of course, Adam isn't finished playing yet...
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  • Aaronwilson_95Aaronwilson_95 Members Posts: 829 ✭✭
    Just hard in my opinion to leave a guy who was under the system dubbed the best player in the world out of the HOF. I get his resume isn’t ideal but being world number has to be something that in 50 years you remeber compared to 20 tour wins.



    Slippery slope but with how hard it is to reach number one I say that should be an auto entry and you go into the owgr hall at the Hof
  • FootWedge16FootWedge16 Members Posts: 251 ✭✭


    Just hard in my opinion to leave a guy who was under the system dubbed the best player in the world out of the HOF. I get his resume isn’t ideal but being world number has to be something that in 50 years you remeber compared to 20 tour wins.



    Slippery slope but with how hard it is to reach number one I say that should be an auto entry and you go into the owgr hall at the Hof




    Sorry, I completely disagree. #1 OWGR is a made up ranking using made up criteria.



    What about all of the guys that could have been number one if Tiger didn’t have a stranglehold on it for a decade?



    Wins are what matter. 20 wins is significantly more important than being the so called number one player.
  • Darth PutterDarth Putter Members Posts: 4,766 ✭✭
    smeech8000 wrote:


    wcbjr wrote:



    Adam Scott is in on the merit that he was world number 1 .

    Only 22 people have done that under the current system . Being the best at your profession at the time your doing should be HOF




    Luke Donald? Probably not.


    While not as "impressive with no majors "

    He was ahead of Rory bubba , bubba , rose , woods Mickelson Johnson to name a few

    http://dps.endavadig...owgr21f2012.pdf



    I think being owgr number 1 is still underrated and for that alone he should be in HOF.








    The WGHOF assigns special value to winning the Players', which (IMO) is one of the reasons Couples' record is superior to that of Scott's.




    %7B1E8819E9-EA34-4727-AE13-7E3EEF4ED95C%7D86396131_10.jpg?itok=_AgJ9X0i
    swing is irrelevant, score is everything

    just say NO.... to practice swings
  • Aaronwilson_95Aaronwilson_95 Members Posts: 829 ✭✭



    Just hard in my opinion to leave a guy who was under the system dubbed the best player in the world out of the HOF. I get his resume isn’t ideal but being world number has to be something that in 50 years you remeber compared to 20 tour wins.



    Slippery slope but with how hard it is to reach number one I say that should be an auto entry and you go into the owgr hall at the Hof




    Sorry, I completely disagree. #1 OWGR is a made up ranking using made up criteria.



    What about all of the guys that could have been number one if Tiger didn’t have a stranglehold on it for a decade?



    Wins are what matter. 20 wins is significantly more important than being the so called number one player.




    Tiger was clearly the best in the world at that point , no arguing about it. Everyone’s using the same criteria it’s not like it’s favoring Luke Donald to make him number one ..... being the best in the world should account for getting into the HOF
  • ShilgyShilgy Members Posts: 11,394 ✭✭




    Just hard in my opinion to leave a guy who was under the system dubbed the best player in the world out of the HOF. I get his resume isn’t ideal but being world number has to be something that in 50 years you remeber compared to 20 tour wins.



    Slippery slope but with how hard it is to reach number one I say that should be an auto entry and you go into the owgr hall at the Hof




    Sorry, I completely disagree. #1 OWGR is a made up ranking using made up criteria.



    What about all of the guys that could have been number one if Tiger didn’t have a stranglehold on it for a decade?



    Wins are what matter. 20 wins is significantly more important than being the so called number one player.




    Tiger was clearly the best in the world at that point , no arguing about it. Everyone’s using the same criteria it’s not like it’s favoring Luke Donald to make him number one ..... being the best in the world should account for getting into the HOF
    I agree with you-almost. The hof is a career award normally. A longevity award if you will. Reaching number one, even without a major, is a two year at most endeavor. Without more wins and/or majors it's hard to put him in.

    An interesting subject would be a Koepka type career. If he stopped cold or got injured and never won again is he in? Four wins and three majors.



    WITB
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    To paraphrase Dr Seuss: Don't cry because the round of golf is over-smile because it happened . :)

    Game is recovering from total ankle replacement. Getting there and glad to be pain free!
  • cdnglfcdnglf Members Posts: 3,189 ✭✭
    I guess I’ll be the one to point out that Tom Lehman was #1
  • LokiLoki Members Posts: 1,110 ✭✭
    Like Ferguson said, Goosen is probably a nice guy, but it just waters down the HOF, slightly, as it was already watered down.



    Not only that? Going to the World Golf HOF is a HUGE waste of time. A whole floor dedicated to Bob Hope. He wasn't a pro golfer. AND there really aren't any exhibits that showcase golfers that you would know. Go play golf instead.
  • ShilgyShilgy Members Posts: 11,394 ✭✭
    cdnglf wrote:


    I guess I’ll be the one to point out that Tom Lehman was #1
    Really to me reaching #1 is another feather in the cap for a HOF candidate. Totals wins, major wins, poty awards, owgr status at peak, WGC wins, other big event wins, team event play, money list/FedEx cup results...

    The total career is what matters to me. Not a cut and dried criteria of x number of wins and y majors. Make the cut off whatever and someone is at the bottom. Make it 20 wins and 2 majors and Norman is the cut off. Wadkins and Crenshaw would both be out. I'll take the top few from every era and enshrine then.
    WITB
    Tools for the job!

    To paraphrase Dr Seuss: Don't cry because the round of golf is over-smile because it happened . :)

    Game is recovering from total ankle replacement. Getting there and glad to be pain free!
  • cdnglfcdnglf Members Posts: 3,189 ✭✭
    Shilgy wrote:

    cdnglf wrote:


    I guess I'll be the one to point out that Tom Lehman was #1
    Really to me reaching #1 is another feather in the cap for a HOF candidate. Totals wins, major wins, poty awards, owgr status at peak, WGC wins, other big event wins, team event play, money list/FedEx cup results...

    The total career is what matters to me. Not a cut and dried criteria of x number of wins and y majors. Make the cut off whatever and someone is at the bottom. Make it 20 wins and 2 majors and Norman is the cut off. Wadkins and Crenshaw would both be out. I'll take the top few from every era and enshrine then.




    I agree. There are many different combinations that could qualify someone for the HoF.



    There has to be some way of pre-screening the candidates though, and I think the current baseline for inclusion on the ballot (15 wins or 2 majors/players) is fine.
  • lowheellowheel LOWHEEL Members Posts: 6,147 ✭✭
    cdnglf wrote:


    I guess I'll be the one to point out that Tom Lehman was #1




    Listen it was deserved.I think he won like 3-4 times in 18 months including the British and finished like 2nd or 3 in back to back US opens. If he could putt with any regularity hed have 3-4 majors and 15 wins easily
  • buckeyeflbuckeyefl Members Posts: 5,458 ✭✭
    Loki wrote:


    Like Ferguson said, Goosen is probably a nice guy, but it just waters down the HOF, slightly, as it was already watered down.



    Not only that? Going to the World Golf HOF is a HUGE waste of time. A whole floor dedicated to Bob Hope. He wasn't a pro golfer. AND there really aren't any exhibits that showcase golfers that you would know. Go play golf instead.




    That horse left the barn long ago. I am not sure I would have too much negative to say about this career after a stroll through the Bob Hope experience.



    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retief_Goosen
  • lowheellowheel LOWHEEL Members Posts: 6,147 ✭✭
    If David Graham is in so is Retief...
  • cdnglfcdnglf Members Posts: 3,189 ✭✭
    edited Oct 12, 2018 #59
    lowheel wrote:

    cdnglf wrote:


    I guess I'll be the one to point out that Tom Lehman was #1




    Listen it was deserved.I think he won like 3-4 times in 18 months including the British and finished like 2nd or 3 in back to back US opens. If he could putt with any regularity hed have 3-4 majors and 15 wins easily




    He got a bit lucky in that his 9.9 average points was enough (it usually takes > 10), but I don't have a problem with him getting to #1.

    I just think that doesn't automatically make him a Hall of Famer.
  • Darth PutterDarth Putter Members Posts: 4,766 ✭✭
    lowheel wrote:


    If David Graham is in so is Retief...




    I've got my if "Chi Chi is in so is Stricker" argument ready to go.
    swing is irrelevant, score is everything

    just say NO.... to practice swings
  • bscinstnctbscinstnct Members Posts: 26,403 ✭✭
    edited Oct 12, 2018 #61
    Loki wrote:


    Like Ferguson said, Goosen is probably a nice guy, but it just waters down the HOF, slightly, as it was already watered down.



    Not only that? Going to the World Golf HOF is a HUGE waste of time. A whole floor dedicated to Bob Hope. He wasn't a pro golfer. AND there really aren't any exhibits that showcase golfers that you would know. Go play golf instead.




    Goose has 2 US Opens.



    From what I gather, he grew up in SA, distinguished himself, then played most of his early career in Europe.



    He won 14 European events, Order of Merit 2 times.



    Then, win 7 PGA tour events.



    Including those 2 US Opens.



    How you figure him going to the HOF is watering it down?



    Its their honor he is there.
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