How hard do you swing?

[ebrasmus21]

Tiger has a flare for the dramatic does he not? It’s why we love him.

[MPStrat]

It is possible because 20% less effort can’t be measured and is too broad and subjective to mean anything specific. I’ll find you a bunch of high school football teams that are giving 110% effort every week. That doesn’t mean it can’t be helpful. To some it might result in strangling the club less in transition allowing them to make the correct movement. Percentages when it comes to effort aren’t real and all based on the individuals perception.

[ebrasmus21]

i think if you looks at shotlink data the mph difference between the top players on their fastest recorded ballspeed of the season vs their lowest ballspeed is something around 5% difference.

[bladehunter]

Yes. But equally disillusioned by data , launch monitor speeds etc. Whichever is why I think the answer is in the middle.

 

Feel isn’t always real when light is shed on it. But the best players are the best because of feel and the trust in that feel . Which makes it very real if calibrated accurately.

[Socrates]

You cannot give more than 100% no matter what. If you feel you are giving more than 100%, you weren't giving 100% before.

[dmecca2]

I believe it is possible. For example, if you tell a pro to swing 50% effort, their speed isnt going to drop 50%. If you drop the effort, the speed isnt going to drop at the same rate.

[MPStrat]

You can't give 110%, you can't give 100%, you can't give 30%, because none of those percentages mean anything in reality. It's a mind game.

[nitram]

Can we agree that it really is a perception (feel) about the amount of effort in swinging the club and not a real percentage of swing/ball speed??

[Zitlow]

Quick>Hard

Proprioception determines how much force/energy is applied to the club head.

[wagolfer7]

Sometimes it seems that we just argue to argue on the internet. This thread is ridiculous.

I'm not sure why someone just hasn't pointed out the obvious here.

Long Drive Competitors swing at 100% effort. Or as close to as you can be. Meaning they are trying to swing as fast and hard as possible to get as much distance and speed as they can. The trade off is consistency and accuracy. Obviously playing a round of golf, this is not going to usually result in the best score.

To put that in perspective, then you could see why someone might claim that PGA players swing at 80-90% effort / speed or whatever.

Tiger Woods early on said it at a clinic. My dad told me to swing as hard as I can, while still being able to maintain my balance and finish.

I think that in a nutshell is how the golf swing is. You swing as hard / fast as possible while your body still stays in control. Look at Long Drive champs vs PGA drives finishes and just body control in general.

If you have 155 yards to the pin. And you have an 8 iron that goes 150 and a 7 iron that goes 160. You should either choke-down on the 7-iron, or not take a full swing (meaning in length). I personally and don't believe that golfers are trying to swing easier. If you want to use the 8 iron to go 160, then you would hold off on the release a little longer and try to get a little more torque. Not something most amateurs are capable of doing.

Golf is about consistency. It's hard to be consistent if you are trying to change the speed you swing the club at for different shots. That's why the gave us a full set of clubs with different lofts.

[MPStrat]

Agreed. If we wanted to take everything literally, as some do when it comes to the 80% swing, we could say that if someone actually swung a golf club at anywhere near 100%,of their capability, they would injure themselves badly which is why our nervous system won't allow it to happen aside from life threatening circumstances. These percentages of effort aren't real, are only feels and don't correlate a perfect 1:1 ratio to swing speed.

[MonteScheinblum]

Here is the bigger point.

There are no issues with swinging as hard/fast as you want....the issue is how and when to apply the speed. Most(all) swing faults are applying the speed at the wrong time and/or in the wrong direction.

Swinging easy and being smooth are masking the real issue.

The graph should look like a supply and demand graph. As close to 100% as possible with longer clubs , as far from 100% as possible with shorter clubs.

[MAEAR]

Anika says she swings 60% for her best results.  I try to not go more than 50% but make a full swing in doing so. 

[Lincoln_Arcadia]

On 11/15/2019 at 6:16 PM, jjfcpa said:

I'm sure you've read that the pros only swing with about 80-90% of their best effort.

 

In my experience, every time I try to swing with 100% effort I end up with a pulled shot, missed the sweet spot, or hit it off the toe. It seems to me that you need to hit at your 100% "confidence level" which means that there is that effort where you feel you can control the swing better and make good impact. For me, that's about the 80% effort.

 

On the driving range 100%, on the course 75% to 80%. This is simply a feeling. The balls go about the same distances for the people I’ve measured.

Edited July 5, 2021 by Lincoln_Arcadia

[Lincoln_Arcadia]

On 11/22/2019 at 9:54 AM, MonteScheinblum said:

The graph should look like a supply and demand graph. As close to 100% as possible with longer clubs , as far from 100% as possible with shorter clubs.

 

This is very good advice.

Edited July 5, 2021 by Lincoln_Arcadia

[phizzy30]

For me, I find that I get better results swinging harder in general but more so with driver.  If I try to bunt a driver out there for the sake of accuracy, it always ends up bad for me either with a pull hook or a low knuckler that falls out of the sky too fast.  If I need to dial distance back a bit, I go with the 3 metal but swing just as hard as I would driver.  Works for me.  As for irons, I have dialed it back and it helps tremendously.  I cover the ball better and make solid contact way more often.  I do have to worry about shutting the face too quick though which is the downside. 

[Nard_S]

35 minutes ago, Lincoln_Arcadia said:

 

This is very good advice.

It is.

 

[hoselpalooza]

Based on LM #’s during practice: Stock 95% of max with driver, low 90% for the rest. Lie/conditions/distance on course will alter effort %, mostly lowering it, but sometimes increasing. 
 

Adrenaline on course could increase speed, but I’ve never tested it. 

[bonvivantva]

On 11/22/2019 at 12:54 PM, MonteScheinblum said:

Here is the bigger point.

There are no issues with swinging as hard/fast as you want....the issue is how and when to apply the speed. Most(all) swing faults are applying the speed at the wrong time and/or in the wrong direction.

Swinging easy and being smooth are masking the real issue.

The graph should look like a supply and demand graph. As close to 100% as possible with longer clubs , as far from 100% as possible with shorter clubs.

 

I agree with those that say percentage feels are subjective and vary person to person.  Another confounding factor is that how, "hard" one swings, or how much, "effort" they apply could refer to range of motion/depth, or just power applied to said depth.  It really is a difficult if not impossible question to answer if consensus is your aim.

 

I was going to bring provide an anecdote in line with Monte's point.  I used to have a tendency to lose height in the backswing, sway off the ball some, and hit it fat.  With heavy contact, I might get the ball to carry 150ish with a 7iron max.  On occasion, I'd hit a pure one and know my potential, but the 7i was my 150 club in practice.  With this poor swing, I think I could give you a fairly reasonable approximation of swing percentage.  The range of motion was pretty standard for me, and it was all about brute strength.  How hard I chose to violently chop down steeply and OTT at the ball.  My swing has improved since then, and now I'd find this a very difficult question to answer.  If I want to step on one, I could reach for some extra depth.  I could maintain my standard depth and simply apply more muscle.  Or I could try to do both.  But honestly, if I have a forced carry or something, I'm just going to make sure I have enough club, and then focus on getting my weight forward and rotating through contact to give myself the best chance at pure contact.

 

My buddy showed me a screenshot of his arccos the other day.  He hit a 5i 275.  Now I don't know about carry vs. roll, but still I was impressed.  I went out to my simulator and tried to max out my 5i for s&gs.  I was swinging 100%.  Beyond the max depth I can control, and beyond the effort that will allow for decent contact.  I did hit the longest carry 5i ever for me, but I mostly hit bad shots that would not work on the course.  If that is 100% (even though I'd never do that on the course), then stepping on one while playing would be by comparison maybe an 80% swing.  But if you just compare my hardest swing during a round to say a stock shot, I bet the percentage range is more like 5% at most (100 vs ~95).  But as Monte pointed out, you're unlikely to step on an iron during a round.  My longest club I trust is the hybrid, so that's probably all I'd step on in real life.  2nd shot on a par 5 for instance.  So all around this is a hard question to answer.  Hopefully that helped you some.

[oz dee cee]

As hard as I can whilst still maintaining control. 

[Righty to Lefty]

I feel like the later in my swing arc that I "apply the lever" the less perceived effort that I feel that I give. Physics would say that the club can only accelerate to low point and from then on the club would be decelerating so any effort to accelerate the club past low point would be wasted energy so an effort to assist the momentum created must occur prior to low point of the swing arc.  Just like trying to push a kid on a swing you are assisting the momentum at the optimal time as the kid falls towards low point but if you tried to accelerate them at any point after low point that would be wasted effort because their mass would be going against gravity or experiencing negative acceleration. 

[RobotDoctor]

My best guess would be around 90%.  If I really need to add some power I take the club back a bit slower and try to lengthen my swing and start down smooth then ramp up to 95% or so.  A 100% swing would leave me unbalanced and probably stumbling over to my left foot.

 

Edited July 7, 2021 by RobotDoctor

[Nels55]

On 11/15/2019 at 6:54 PM, Golfrnut said:

Percentage of what? Swing speed? Pros probably have 2-3 miles an hour in the tank at most, there’s no way they are only 80-90%.

 

Now, if you want to talk in terms of something that’s controlled verses being off-balance and flailing about, then yeah, I would agree. Trying harder doesn’t necessarily equate to the club moving faster though.

Percentage of distance.  I believe that a tour pro who says he is hitting his six iron at 80% means that his stock shot goes 200 yards and if he goes crazy hard at it the ball will go 240 yards or so.  The stock "80%" shot is much more consistent.

[Golfrnut]

5 hours ago, Nels55 said:

Percentage of distance.  I believe that a tour pro who says he is hitting his six iron at 80% means that his stock shot goes 200 yards and if he goes crazy hard at it the ball will go 240 yards or so.  The stock "80%" shot is much more consistent.

 

 

yeah, I would say no.  That would mean having about 15 MPH of swing speed in the tank.  Not happening.

 

 

[Nels55]

5 hours ago, Golfrnut said:

 

 

yeah, I would say no.  That would mean having about 15 MPH of swing speed in the tank.  Not happening.

 

 

Good point.  LOL my calculation is based on adding 20% which is not really correct.  Although I think some of them might actually have that much in the tank.  

 

I guess the more likely argument for the 80% figure is energy expended.  Energy required is not linear with respect to distance or clubhead speed.  Kinetic energy (KE) is equal to half of an object's mass (1/2*m) multiplied by the velocity squared.

 

Running some quick calculations a swing at 100mph with a clubhead of 200 grams requires 199.84 Joules of energy.  80% energy would then be 159.88 Joules. A swing speed of 89.45mph calculates to 159.90 Joules of energy.  So we can assume that at 100 mph of clubhead speed with a driver 80% effort would be around 90 mph.  Interesting.  80% of 100mph is obviously 80mph so the difference is fairly significant and is close to 10% of the swing speed.

 

Running the same calculations (rounded off) at a swing speed of 120 mph shows that we require 288 Joules and 80% would be 230 Joules.  Clubhead speed required for 230 Joules is about 107 mph.  80% of 120mph is 96mph so again a significant difference.  

 

I think that if we consider a tour pro swinging all out in such a way that they might not even hit the ball then the 80% figure for normal swings might not be too far low when considering energy expended...  I doubt that any of them swing at 100% very often in tournament play.

 

Edited July 10, 2021 by Nels55

[Fairway14]

9 hours ago, Nels55 said:

Percentage of distance.  I believe that a tour pro who says he is hitting his six iron at 80% means that his stock shot goes 200 yards and if he goes crazy hard at it the ball will go 240 yards or so.  The stock "80%" shot is much more consistent.

 

You have the concept correct, but the average Tour pro "stock 6-iron" at sea level, moderate air temperature, flat terrain, no wind, is 175 yards, not 200.

80% is correct because swinging at a pace-tempo faster than that makes it hard to find consistently good swing rhythm-timing.

[Fairway14]

On 7/4/2021 at 10:25 PM, MAEAR said:

Anika says she swings 60% for her best results.  I try to not go more than 50% but make a full swing in doing so. 

 

Excellent !

In fact it's always been common for Tour players to test-practice their swing technique at different speeds-pace. Specifically, if swing technique (positions) are fundamentally sound the swing will produce good looking solid shots at 25% speed-pace-tempo, 50% speed, 75% speed,and 100% speed. But if the swing technique (positions) are fundamentally flawed then the swing will only effectively produce good looking solid shots at one speed-pace-tempo.

The reason 80% is favored (on in Sorenstam's case 60%) is because a well less than 100% speed-pace-tempo is easier to to duplicate on a day to day, week to week, month to month , year to year basis than is 100% speed-pace-tempo.

[Fairway14]

On 7/5/2021 at 9:59 PM, hoselpalooza said:

 

Adrenaline on course could increase speed, but I’ve never tested it. 

Adrenaline can and does effect golf swings.. Lots of Tour players, when they are having an especially good ball striking and, or, scoring day, are constantly reminding themselves to try and maintain their usual standard swing tempo-pace.

And it is common for amateurs, who (for a variety of reasons) may be having an extraordinarily good distance ball striking day , find themselves starting to swing harder (trying for even more distance) , which usually ends up producing negative results.

 

[dvq9654]

I've found that if it feels like I'm swinging fast / hard, it means my swing is off that day. It's not cause I'm actually swinging hard or faster (usually the opposite...), it's because my sequencing / rhythm / tempo is off. 

 

When I'm swinging well, I'm swinging aggressively with everything but short irons / wedges, but it feels smooth / effortless. 

 

In general, I don't really think about how hard I'm swinging. I think distance and my body more or less adjusts from there.