114 MPH Swing Speed - What flex of driver shaft do I really need?

[caeye0710]

Ok folks - I'll start off by saying I'm no club/shaft guru. I'm a weekend warrior and a pretty decent player.

My driver swing speed averages right around 113-114 mph. Sometimes a little slower, sometimes it all clicks and I get a little faster.

I've had some people tell me it's not fast enough to play an X-flex. I've had some tell me I definitely need an X.

Probably not a lot of information go off, but just curious to hear some of your Swing Speeds and what you currently game.

[JoeFrigo]

everyone will say it depends on tempo, transition, swing, blah blah etc..... More than likely you should almost always be X flex. Before anyone else comments, I know 100% of the time its not true to say a swing speed fits a certain flex

 

But you'll almost always be fit in to an x flex shaft. More important is probably the correct weight in your shaft. Both are hard to answer. The guy on TXG swing 123mph and fits into 60g shafts. 70+ he loses his timing and misses left all the time (hes left handed). He has a super smoother swing so 60g fits perfect. People with fast takeaways and aggressive swings typically fit better in heavier shafts

 

My last fitting was almost 2 weeks ago. Im 111-112 avg. The more tip stiff / stout shafts I fit better in 60g range. Shafts with a more active tip I hit the 70g better. My current shafts are very tip stiff so the lighter weights were better for me

[Nixhex524]

At that speed, even sometimes faster, I can not see you being in anything less than X regardless of tempo and transition... that's a strong swing speed. Certain shafts may fit you better but I don't see those being in the stiff range, unless maybe you go to a real heavy stiff but even still, thats enough speed to be in the X range.

[caeye0710]

Thanks for the advice. I would say if you were to compare my tempo to someone, it would be Jason day (minus some MPH and distance and talent - lol). I pretty much go 110% with driver - there's no holding back, so on the way down I'm going all out to deliver the club to the ball. Just a fault I've grown up with.

Weirdly enough - my irons are opposite. I'm much more of a feel player and rarely hit anything 100% unless it's in the short irons and I'm in between clubs.

[JStang]

That is more than enough speed to play X flex. Average driver speed on the PGA Tour is 113 MPH and almost all of those guys play X flex. I'm sure there are a few in stiff but not many. Most shaft manufacturers suggest X flex for anything above 105 MPH swing speed.

[MtlJeff]

Definitely more than enough to play X flex.

If you like heavier shafts you could easily play a 80g stiff too. My SS is around 112-113 and I use a 70g stiff in one driver and a 80g stiff in the other

[1Mordrid1]

It is hard to say, because several things can affect how you load the shaft. Not to mention, not all shaft flexes between brands are created equally. Plus, you have to decide what your goal is with your shaft.

Just as a general basis, if you have a 2 way miss, or miss to the lead arm side often with a hook or hard draw, then going to a stiffer flex might help.

There are people who play a stiffer flex than optimal because they hit is straighter, or even because it keeps the left side out of play, even though they can get extra distance from a softer flex.

Obviously the best thing would be to get fit for a shaft, but not everyone can do that, so if you can give us a little more information, someone might be able to point you in the right direction.

 

What is your current shaft and driver head? Do you have a quick or "deliberate" transition? Is your average trajectory low, medium, or high? What is your most common "miss"? What is your average carry distance(based on SS we can try to extrapolate if you have too little or too much spin)?

[caeye0710]

Great questions. Right now I am gaming an M5 10.5* (turned down) with a Tour AD DI 7x. My transition is definitely quick.

As far as traj goes, medium-low would be the best way to describe it, and if I'm missing, I'm missing LEFT of left.

Average carry distance is tough to guess on. I know indoors it's usually around 270-280, best guess?

[Z1ggy16]

I'm not a professional fitter but I'd say the only way you end up in S flex is if you swing as smooth as Els or Couples and you also use something really heavy. Otherwise if you're looking to find a typical 60-70g shaft, it's almost certainly going to be better off in X. At 115 with a moderate to fast tempo, you'd probably even be better off in something in the low 70g range and it would also likely end up in X.

I still suggest getting fit. I Was fit last November and my CHS was 118 on average. Oddly enough I ended up getting the best numbers with an Accra 465M4 which is roughly an S flex. Again... insert the standard clause of there's no industry standard yadda yadda....but Accra does make M5 flex, so technically I was not in the most stiff offering. I ended up going with a Smoke Black 60g in 6.5 because I was told by my fitter later on that this shaft would feel pretty similar to the Accra. He was right.

[1Mordrid1]

Missing left like that and a quick transition with that SS would likely put you into a X-flex. Your carry distance for your swing speed would say you are pretty close to optimal spin. Your medium-low trajectory and spin might come down going up a flex, but you can always counter both by getting a shaft with a more active tip.

[DaRiz]

I swing 114 and play a 75g stiff mid launch shaft and 8.5 degree head

Depends how early you release it. I am a 6 hdcp and do not have a pro level impact position ie I release earlier than is optimal. Having a mid launch stiff actually gets me a few mph club head speed vs an extra stiff. It was also lower spin for me when paired with a low loft head.

I am overhauling my swing though, so it will be interesting to see what happens with my driver specs as my release point gets later and later.

Even doing a cheap fitting will help you find loft, length, flex, and weight, and then you can fiddle within whatever parameters you find out work for you. 114 speed is enough where getting fit could net you big time yardage

[LeoLeo99]

The labeled stiffness doesn't mean much. I have a regular shaft in my driver and extra stiff in my driving iron and they both feel the same to me.

[caeye0710]

Ended up going with an M5 with a Tour AD GP 7x - supposed to be a firmer shaft and help with those who suffer from the chronic hooks. If it doesn't work, I'll hit the reset button and work on finding something else.

[Ri_Redneck]

Lots of good info above. Only thing I have to add is that shafts typically "Feel" firmer as you go up in weight and lower in torque. Everyone has a certain feel that they prefer when they swing the club. It's that feeling that the club is in sync with you and everything is clicking perfectly. It also may or MAY NOT be the shaft that the launch monitor says is THE ONE. It's a feel thing that you have to find. I have a group of shafts that suit me and how I like the club to feel. They range from S to TX and 65 to 90 gms. It's just something you have to find by trying them. Not much help I know, but it's the way it is.

BT

[bcrowley22]

So I know everyone on these forums are pros and know all but don’t listen. I got fit into a super heavy x stiff shaft at golf galaxy, got it and could not time it up. Believe it was a 70 gram. I finally forked up and went to club champion. After hitting all types of x stiff shafts varying from Accra and Ventus to speeders, I finally hit the best one and it was the speeder evolution v 569 stiff. It’s light and also stiff, I swing about 112-114 and have a slow tempo back before unloading into it. It was by far best ball flight. Being a mid launch and spin I was at about 2900 spin and launch angle of 11 at 7.5 degrees. I hit it better than literally everything. We even tried the big brother which is the 569 x stiff and still hit the stiff better. I think it just depends on your swing but go somewhere like golftec or club champion. Don’t believe these clowns at golf galaxy unless its a fitting by the pro. 

[mcounci2]

Guns blazing on the first post. Enjoy your $650 shaft? Hope it was pure'd!!

 

Seriously though....

-You can get a good fit at GG.

-You can get a good fit at Club Champion. 

-Golftec

-You can get a bad fit anywhere

 

It all depends on who is doing the fit. I'd say an Evo V 569 S is a very atypical match for someone with your swing speed, and 2900rpm and 11deg seems kinda spinny at 165(?)mph ball speed, but if it works, who cares what the shaft label says. 

Edited June 22, 2021 by mcounci2

[phizzy30]

On 12/11/2019 at 8:53 AM, caeye0710 said:

Great questions. Right now I am gaming an M5 10.5* (turned down) with a Tour AD DI 7x. My transition is definitely quick.

As far as traj goes, medium-low would be the best way to describe it, and if I'm missing, I'm missing LEFT of left.

Average carry distance is tough to guess on. I know indoors it's usually around 270-280, best guess?

Carry numbers sound about right for your ss.  That would probably put your ball speed at 165-170.  You make more than enough ss for x flex. 

[Phabs]

Love thread revival. 

Edited June 23, 2021 by Phabs

[Alpha3]

I’d say not stiff or below as this forum suggests.

[Drivingrangehero]

Some shafts that have a designation of X-Flex play softer than some with a designation of stiff flex. 
 

id try to find the weight you like best, the profile that gives you the best results then focus on flex within that particular shaft profile. 

 

I play a Aldila Xtorsion Copper 60TX that’s tipped 1 inch at 44.25 playing length and added weight to the head. It feels softer to me than a RIP Alpha 80s . The Rip Alpha 80s felt like too much work to load properly for me, and my swing speed is around 113mph

The Ping Tour 65X felt a touch to stiff for me until I added 8 grams of headweight, then I could feel the shaft load properly without swinging like Dechambeau. 

 

Id try different weight shafts, in different profiles, fine tune with flex, then go through Howard’s  DIY driver tune up to optimize your output. 
 

 

 

Edited June 23, 2021 by Drivingrangehero

[phizzy30]

2 hours ago, Drivingrangehero said:

Some shafts that have a designation of X-Flex play softer than some with a designation of stiff flex. 
 

id try to find the weight you like best, the profile that gives you the best results then focus on flex within that particular shaft profile. 

 

I play a Aldila Xtorsion Copper 60TX that’s tipped 1 inch at 44.25 playing length and added weight to the head. It feels softer to me than a RIP Alpha 80s . The Rip Alpha 80s felt like too much work to load properly for me, and my swing speed is around 113mph

The Ping Tour 65X felt a touch to stiff for me until I added 8 grams of headweight, then I could feel the shaft load properly without swinging like Dechambeau. 

 

Id try different weight shafts, in different profiles, fine tune with flex, then go through Howard’s  DIY driver tune up to optimize your output. 
 

 

 

How does adding weight to a head make a shaft softer/feel softer? 

[Valtiel]

15 hours ago, bcrowley22 said:

So I know everyone on these forums are pros and know all but don’t listen. I got fit into a super heavy x stiff shaft at golf galaxy, got it and could not time it up. Believe it was a 70 gram. I finally forked up and went to club champion. After hitting all types of x stiff shafts varying from Accra and Ventus to speeders, I finally hit the best one and it was the speeder evolution v 569 stiff. It’s light and also stiff, I swing about 112-114 and have a slow tempo back before unloading into it. It was by far best ball flight. Being a mid launch and spin I was at about 2900 spin and launch angle of 11 at 7.5 degrees. I hit it better than literally everything. We even tried the big brother which is the 569 x stiff and still hit the stiff better. I think it just depends on your swing but go somewhere like golftec or club champion. Don’t believe these clowns at golf galaxy unless its a fitting by the pro. 

This is decent advice delivered very poorly. Your personal experience does not mean everyone else is wrong, it is literally the same logic that you are saying "don't listen" to. However it is important to try things for yourself and use the general rules of thumb as starting points, not gospel, so we can agree on that. 

[mcounci2]

39 minutes ago, phizzy30 said:

How does adding weight to a head make a shaft softer/feel softer? 

Force=mass×acceleration

Torque=force×lever arm

 

More mass exerts more force, and therefore more torque on the system.  This will bend the shaft more than a lighter head.  

 

Think of the limiting cases- no weight will not make the shaft bend at all. An infinitely heavy weight will make the shaft tip unmovable

[Stuart_G]

39 minutes ago, mcounci2 said:

More mass exerts more force, and therefore more torque on the system.  This will bend the shaft more than a lighter head.  

 

Think of the limiting cases- no weight will not make the shaft bend at all. An infinitely heavy weight will make the shaft tip unmovable

 

It's not really the torque that necessarily changes (it might but it also might not) same torque and more mass could also just mean less acceleration.     But I might reword it a bit differently that might help those less knowledgeable in physics.

 

The more mass, the more resistance there is to it being accelerated.  The force to move the mass is transmitted through the shaft by it's longitudinal stiffness and elastic properties (bending).   So as the resistance to being accelerated increases so does the amount of force needed to get it moving.  And that extra force comes from the extra deformation (bending) of the shaft. 

 

Edited June 23, 2021 by Stuart_G

[jvincent]

1 hour ago, phizzy30 said:

How does adding weight to a head make a shaft softer/feel softer? 

 

This is a pet peeve of mine.  The shaft is not softer. The system (club head + shaft) is different.

 

When you add weight to the head if you measure the CPM of the club  it will be lower because of the heavier head weight. This is basic spring theory because an oscillating shaft is really just a spring. Lower  CPM = more flexible.

 

Now, in practice the shaft itself has not magically become softer. It's the same shaft.

 

What has changed is the amount of deflection the shaft will experience when an equivalent force is applied to it during the swing. This will change the feel of the club when you swing it and as pointed out above the shaft will flex more so it "plays" as if it were softer.

[Drivingrangehero]

4 minutes ago, mcounci2 said:

Force=mass×acceleration

Torque=force×lever arm

 

More mass exerts more force, and therefore more torque on the system.  This will bend the shaft more than a lighter head.  

 

Think of the limiting cases- no weight will not make the shaft bend at all. An infinitely heavy weight will make the shaft tip unmovable

 

1 hour ago, phizzy30 said:

How does adding weight to a head make a shaft softer/feel softer? 

There is a good past thread on this here below 

 

My Ping G30 ls tec I added 12 grams to the head total, after it felt easier to load, and in my current driver I added 8 grams of headweight (20 gram total) from its original, which was already heavier than some of the stock offerings because it came with a counterbalanced shaft (Tensei Orange), plus I cut it down to 44.25, so the added headweight just made it feel right at that point. I don’t know the swingweight, but I did Howard’s DIY driver tune up, and got best results at 44.25-44.5 length and 18-20gram total headweight added, which was 8 more than the 12g that came stock in it. 
 

Funny the Aldila Xtorsion Copper 60TX  (67g) is only 3 grams lighter than the Aldila Xtorsion Copper 70TX (70g) but felt miles softer. I didn’t get the same feel at impact at all with the 70TX. The differences were minor for much of the profile, but the torque was considerably higher with the 60TX. 
 

Some people (myself anyways) need a higher torque rating numbered shaft. If it’s a low torque shaft in S flex with a stiff middle, it will be too much for me. 

 

 

[Krt22]

13 minutes ago, jvincent said:

 

This is a pet peeve of mine.  The shaft is not softer. The system (club head + shaft) is different.

 

When you add weight to the head if you measure the CPM of the club  it will be lower because of the heavier head weight. This is basic spring theory because an oscillating shaft is really just a spring. Lower  CPM = more flexible.

 

Now, in practice the shaft itself has not magically become softer. It's the same shaft.

 

What has changed is the amount of deflection the shaft will experience when an equivalent force is applied to it during the swing. This will change the feel of the club when you swing it and as pointed out above the shaft will flex more so it "plays" as if it were softer.

Semantics perhaps, but it does/will play softer. There is a reason we tip wood shafts in fairway metals and that is mainly due to the extra head weight 

[jvincent]

3 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

Semantics perhaps, but it does/will play softer. There is a reason we tip wood shafts in fairway metals and that is mainly due to the extra head weight 

I agree that's it a little bit of semantics.

 

I'm perfectly fine with somebody saying it "plays" softer because it will flex more.

[Stuart_G]

25 minutes ago, jvincent said:

 

This is a pet peeve of mine.  The shaft is not softer. The system (club head + shaft) is different.

 

I used to feel the same way.   But golfers, fitters, and club builders use a different definition of stiffness than engineers do.  it's more based on dynamic response than static properties.

[NRJyzr]

I admit I'm still stuck on a 70g shaft being "super heavy."   I wonder how my NV105 driver shaft would be classified?