I think drivers are finally “topped out”.

[BlkNGld]

I'd take that.

Keep in mind that with today's technology the club and ball are an ecosystem. Club advances drive changes in the ball, and vice versa.

Balata balls struck at high speeds had a much narrower margin for error on quality of strike and how much they spun. Current balls are more forgiving off of the driver.

Somewhere I heard that once you get to around 150mph club speed, current ball technology beings to show similar behavior.

But I agree with your main point... today's pros are much better athletes with more tools available to them to take advantage of modern equipment. If you took Jack or Arnie in their primes and gave them today's gear, I think they could hang with current pro, but after that things would drop off pretty fast.

[Socrates]

I don't even think they are tracking the Ladies. But, by watching the telecasts and the yardages given, most of the Ladies are hitting clubs much further than they used to. Many are hitting the same clubs from the same distances as I am (i.e. 8 iron 160 carry) whereas 10 yrs ago they would be hitting 5 iron. Quite a few are hitting drivers 275+ and 10 yrs ago there were about 3-5 Ladies that could do that. They don't get the same press because you just aren't going to see 90% of the field drive it 300+. The advantage is still there though for those Ladies that can move it out there and hit less club into every green.

[Pepperturbo]

Yep, and contray to the prevailing thought, the equipment is NOT the main contributor to distance. Kuehne's record still stands and he wasn't known as a workout guru but a party boy. It was his body mechanics.

[Mych]

This graph actually shows me something additional. The higher handicaps show a bit more of a distance increase than the lower handicaps. That is likely due to an increase in forgiveness through an improvement in club head MOI and shaft technologies. Max distance has topped out, but lower handicaps would see the greatest benefit from getting better distance on off-center hits. I would expect the lower handicaps to keep trending toward the max distance over time as technological assistance continues to improve. The distances of low handicaps won't move much unless the technology limits (or balls) are changed.

[NRJyzr]

 

I went through a number of drivers starting around 2012, culminating in a King LTD purchase at the end of the season it was introduced. Followed that with a curiosity purchase of a SLDR and SuperDeep. Didn't see much, if any, improvement, and since then, I've become increasingly uninterested in the new stuff.

Which is part of why I've got Orlimar persimmons listed in my bag contents in my signature. It's atypical, but my tee game improves when using the older persimmons or laminates. Bit shorter on average due to the pure forgiveness difference, but not all that much, and the consistency is considerably better. About time I give them more dedicated bag time.

Boil that all together, stir, and season to taste, and you get a certain apathy towards the new sticks.

Maybe I'll look for a Cobra Deep Face, or buy a TZoid Forged from 2001.

[reed999]

I agree about the drivers being maxed if you are fit correctly. I have a Sim Max, G400 LST and M4 that are all within a couple yards of each other on nutted drives. And they all have different shafts as well. In my opinion, once you are maxed out the only place to gain distance is to increase speed.

[shotmark]

If we take category one and two golfers (up to 12 handicap) i.e. reasonable competent amateurs, there is an average increase for both of 6 yards over 23 years. This equates to approximately 2.5 yards every 10 years. Or put another way less than 50 yards every 200 years - hardly making any course in the history of the game redundant. During this period the average increase on tour is 21 yards. The technological advances are the same for pros as they are for amateurs so I would argue that the disproportionate increase in length in the pro game is down to better fitness and a better understanding of the swing made possible by flightscope/trackman type devices together with custom fitting. What has also improved during this time is agronomy and course conditioning in elite competitions. The improvements in ball and club technology have made very little difference in the grand scheme of things.

[ChaosTheory]

They are maxed in the center of the face. There’s still money on the table as far as forgiveness combined with distance/spin.

And I’m sure shafts are not at their endpoint either.

[MtlJeff]

I think every 4-5 years there may be a minor improvement due to some legit design change , maybe aerodynamics that help you swing faster or whatever, or new shafts ...

But mostly topped out yeah.

[cgasucks]

Wow. And I thought my gamer clubs are old. While there is no question that titanium drivers are longer than persimmon and more forgiving, I do have a 1983 Oil Hardened Persimmon Titleist Tour Model Driver with a DG S300 shaft. I use it strictly on the driving range to improve my ball striking, and it has.

[Davidv]

When you buy a new driver you always convince yourself you gained some yards. You have to justify the purchase somehow in your mind.

[Bridges]

I agree that ball speed is maxed out in the sweet spot but the Mavrik surprised me with how forgiving it is out on the toe and ball speed is still good out there too. Coming from a Z-785 and a TEE EXS last year the Mavrik is a step up for me.

[BMC]

True. And, if you hit straighter, it usually goes farther.

[Big Ben]

Sound/feel, dispersion and looks will always have me pursuing drivers. Heck, it’s one of my guilty pleasures and keeps golf fun and fresh. There’s always a sweet looking new shaft/head combination to explore! While squeezing out yardage has indeed become a dinasour (like me) maximizing dispersion can still be fun to pursue. As a 4hc I’m pretty confident my equipment as whole is far better than me! BB

[NRJyzr]

 

I would say generally speaking, that's very true. But I've had some odd results that have helped put me where I am.

Few years ago, I was playing the Chrome+ as my ball. I also had scored a few dozen Maxfli HT-100s that may have been relatively recently produced in Asia, so lacked the age related issues in distance loss. I spent a month or two mixing and matching between my Fast 12LS and a Zing Blonde laminate on the club side, and between the Chrome+ and HT100 on the ball side. I found very little difference in distance between the two drivers, no matter which ball I was using. And, I found very little difference between the golfballs, no matter which driver I was using.

Now, this is all complicated by peculiarities relating to my swingspeed and club length. I seem to top out somewhere short of 43.5", with my swingspeed actually dropping a couple mph from 43" to 44.25"; the Zing is 43.5" and the Adams was 44.25" or 44.5". The Adams may well be longer for everyone else, compared to my older options, but as it was set up, it wasn't for me.

Which is really the point. This is how it worked *for me*. Ultimately, it's just another aspect of finding one's optimum. I've just done so with on course experimentation instead of fitting sessions, which haven't worked well for me as a rule; I too often swing differently indoors, it seems. What fits me in the bay doesn't always translate to the course.

Sorry, got a bit long winded there. LOL

[tannyhoban]

I've reached the conclusion all clubs have topped out. At least for me.

[Big Ben]

It’s completely true for most but that doesn’t mean we can’t have fun!

[chisag]

 

... Whats really funny is Taylor Made had research data that showed for some elite players, the fairway wood added distance was more than 17 yards but felt it would be unbelievable. So they stuck with 17, a number that was more in line with their average better golfer data. On the LM at demo day I had a 14 yard increase in distance so I was in the ball park. And of course not a single OEM has ever insinuated you will gain significant yards over their previous drivers, just that their new driver is longer. That could be 1.22 yds in the fine print and even then "not everyone will gain yards".

[arbeck]

This isn't exactly true. Guys like Hogan and Nicklaus who were the longest of their day had estimated swing speeds near what the current players did. But those old balls spun so much more, and if you missed the sweet spot of a persimmon, you were punished so greatly, that the average distance was much lower.

The extra distance has been caused by optimization of swings, less spinny balls, and equipment that nearly removes the need to not go all out with the driver. Not to mention that before it was just a few naturally gifted high swing speed guys, but now it's nearly everyone. Plus the realization from strokes gained has shown that on the courses the PGA tour currently play, bomb and gauge is by far the most effective strategy.

Unfortunately, the USGA/R&A can't really role back the equipment. They can't outlaw trackman. They can't make players not work out. So their only real option for controlling distance is the ball. My guess is that their solution is going to be to introduce some sort of limited distance ball. Whether it's 5%, 10%, or 20% less than the current ball. They're going to allow local rules for tournaments to require that ball. Most of the PGA tour will probably ignore it. But you'll see it on certain courses for The Open and US Open. You'll probably see it at the big Amateur events they run. I bet the Masters uses it. It may stay a niche ball for just those events. Or if it truly improves play at those events, you may see other tournaments start using it.

[BiggErn]

Must be the shoes.

[MOAB]

They topped out years ago.

[MOAB]

Just as far, maybe sometimes. But I highly doubt you’d see pros freely swinging out of their shoes on every drive with a ball that spins so much unless they like flirting with OB.

[Mikey5e]

Drivers have topped out? Not according to Callaway:

"New distance is out there, you just have to be a MAVRIK to find it!"

[danwalker5]

in other words: the law of diminishing marginal returns applies to golf. No surprise here.

[Sean2]

I think the reason amateurs haven't seen similar gains as the professionals is most of us simply don't know how to swing the club properly. You can have the latest technology, and most forgiving clubs on the planet, but if one doesn't put a decent swing on it...

[mizuno player]

Drivers to me are like high performance engines.

In engines most everything used today has been around for a long time. The engineers just find ways to tweak out a few more HP. Different polish or grind on the cylinder head. Slightly different cam lobe.

Drivers they find ways to move weight around. Keep fine tuning spin and launch. Engineer the weights so they have a bigger or better influence on flight and spin.

No doubt all these improvements can be said to be small, depending what someone is coming from, but any increase is ball speed, smash factor, launch and spin will have benefits. It's up to the end user if it's worth the money.

The reason it causes such a stir I'm my opinion is the marketing. Their claims seem a little on the I'm extreme side..

[Valtiel]

I would agree with the first part, but aside from making shafts better "feeling", I don't really see what they could contribute performance wise that would be meaningful at this point.

[Quasimoto]

I would argue that the RB’s need do nothing to the equipment.

Where they need to focus is course setup. Narrow fairways, longer rough. Make it tough enough to truly risk/reward Tee shots.

We would see a whole lot different strategies for scoring, involving a lot of different clubs off the tee. Except now the players would be pis*ed.

[Man_O_War]

wait till next year..oems will find another 2 miles for you

[tannyhoban]

Righto. Change is good