Could a single digit handicapper break 100 at Shinnecock?

[kgeisler13]

Do you think a single digit handicapper could break 100 at Shinnecock during Saturdays US open conditions playing the appropriate tees?

 

I think they could but it would be very hard. My dad who's a 18 handicap thinks he could break 90 from the appropriate tees in those conditions. I told him he was nuts.

[SMAKCruiser]

Your dad is nuts. I'd bet he wouldn't shoot under 115.

[Bingo1976]

Your dad is nuts. I'd bet he wouldn't shoot under 115.

 

Without spotters, he’d run out of balls. Or break a wrist in the rough.

 

Can we define single digit - I’d give a one handicap a chance of breaking the Ton, a nine handicap would have next to none.

[Santiago Golf]

Bunch of friends in PGA Golf Management were talking about this same subject. What would we shoot we played the US Open from the same tees they play. Most of us play to around +1 to a 5 and we all are pretty much there distance wise. Some people were sure they couldn't break 100-110, but the argument was if you went out trying to make pars, you probably wouldn't break 100, but if you played to plus +29, you could probably easily do it. You are laying up off the tee on every hole, including some of the par 3s.

[raynorfan1]

Define "appropriate tees".

 

From the most forward tee that Shinnecock has rated (the "White") at 5,400 yards? Probably, assuming that our hero has some experience with fast greens.

[kgeisler13]

My dad has some confidence in his game for being a 18 handicap and 67 years old. Gotta love him.

 

Lets says a 5-9 handicap could they do it, if they played smart. Like Santiago Golf said you cant go out looking to make pars on every hole.

[kgeisler13]

Define "appropriate tees".

 

From the most forward tee that Shinnecock has rated (the "White") at 5,400 yards? Probably, assuming that our hero has some experience with fast greens.

 

I would say appropriate tees are you have a 7 iron or less into the hole if you hit your driver decent.

[CasualLie]

Bunch of friends in PGA Golf Management were talking about this same subject. What would we shoot we played the US Open from the same tees they play. Most of us play to around +1 to a 5 and we all are pretty much there distance wise. Some people were sure they couldn't break 100-110, but the argument was if you went out trying to make pars, you probably wouldn't break 100, but if you played to plus +29, you could probably easily do it. You are laying up off the tee on every hole, including some of the par 3s.

 

This....

 

Every time there is a tough US Open, this same tired subject comes up.

 

I appreciate the honesty above from obviously good golfers. And the conclusion is obvious. If you are truly a single digit and you want to play smart; i.e. "bogey" is your par, then you have a very good chance of breaking 100. But if you are an 8 handicap at your home course which plays 6500 yards; while you are better than average, try playing your usual game and you would not be breaking 100 in Saturday's conditions, maybe not even on the easier Sunday conditions.

[JaNelson38]

I always laugh at people, especially mid-handicappers, who think they're just a couple of strokes a side away from being good enough to play a tour setup and not embarrass yourself.

 

Ive played a course twice that was prepped for a Tour event - one PGA Tour, one Champions Tour. People who have never played a course that is prepped for a tour event dont know just how fast they set the greens up. Lightning quick.

 

Im willing to say right now that unless I would happen to stick some iron shots to kick-in range, I'd probably three putt and four putt the majority of the greens at Shinnecock, or most other courses set up for a PGA Tour event. As would most mid-cappers.

[kgeisler13]

I am sure this comes up every US Open, I just like to hear what everyone has to say about there abilities.

[ebrasmus21]

I'm a single digit and I think I could make it around in a stress-free 125 if it was set up like Saturday. If it was soft and not windy maybe I could get to 115ish.

[CasualLie]

My dad has some confidence in his game for being a 18 handicap and 67 years old. Gotta love him.

 

Lets says a 5-9 handicap could they do it, if they played smart. Like Santiago Golf said you cant go out looking to make pars on every hole.

 

Nothing personal, but what would be the point to play a course with the intent of just breaking 100? To go around telling anyone who will listen you shot 99 by making sure you were so strategic. That's not golf. Well...maybe to FIGJAM it is.

 

No way a 9 handicap breaks 100 even by laying up and I will tell you why. A 9 handicap does not have an impeccable short game and that is what you need at that course in Saturday conditions. Laying up may actually cost you more shots. In Saturday's condition, a 9 index is likely to have two one putts, 8 two putts (I am being generous) and 8 three putts...there's 42 right there. I give them 1 GIR on the par 3s, so there's 7 more...now we are at 49. 14 long holes and you have to average 3.5 shots to those greens to get 98. Sounds quite possible until you start to consider not being able to advance your ball in the fescue because your name is not DJ or Brooks, lost balls, penalties, unplayables, tough bunkers shots...etc...

 

It's not happening.

[Ferguson]

We heard the same thing about Bethpage Black. That was the apex of difficulty 2009.

 

 

Let's face it - if any of us was good enough we wouldn't be talking in the hypothetical.

[TheCityGame]

Pro scores averaged between 75 and 77 each day, roughly.

 

I think that a 5 handicap should easily shoot within 20 strokes of that, especially with a spotter. Scratch, definitely. 9 handicap. . .probably.

 

I think the deciding factor would be how many times the single got into long stuff, took a couple of hacks to get out, took an unplayable and had to drop in the long stuff and made an 11, or something, or ping-pong'ed a green or two.

 

FWIW, me and my buddies played Bethpage Black from the back box on every hole -- regardless of where they had the tees -- a week after the Barclay's last year after sleeping in our cars and getting about 4/5 hours of bad sleep. We were all 3-7 handicappers. Every one of us broke 90. Greens were slower than they were at the Barclays, but the rough was up and the sand is the same.

 

And, I'm not long. I had all I could do just to reach the 5th fairway and the 10th. I hit 4W into 3 of the par 3's. I doubled 3, parred 8 and 17 and birdied the other one (14).

 

I think the "closely mown" thing around the greens would be the biggest stroke adder. No one was threatening par, but look, golf can only get so hard for people who can hit the ball straight and elevate mid and short irons. 100 is more than a double bogey per hole.

[SkiSchoolPro]

I think I could, but you never know would would happen with the pins on 13 and 15.

 

For handicap purposes, according to the USGA, Shinnecock is easier for a bogey golfer than some of the courses I have played this summer. I bet some of the Shinnecock members HC's travel pretty well.

 

Course Rating and Slope Database™

 

Course Rating Search Results

 

 

Club/Course Name City State Shinnecock Hills Golf Club Southampton NY

 

Tee Name USGA Course Rating (18) Slope Rating (18) Front (9) Back (9) Bogey Rating (18) Gender Red 74.4 140 37.6 / 142 36.8 / 137 100.1 M Green 72.3 134 36.3 / 136 36.0 / 132 97.2 M Blue 70.3 129 35.2 / 130 35.1 / 127 94.2 M White 67.1 125 33.7 / 125 33.4 / 124 90.2 M

Club/Course Name City State Breckenridge Golf Club - Beaver/Bear Breckenridge CO

Tee Name USGA Course Rating (18) Slope Rating (18) Front (9) Back (9) Bogey Rating (18) Gender Gold 73.9 151 36.9 / 155 37.0 / 147 102.1 M Blue 71.7 139 35.9 / 141 35.8 / 136 97.4 M Green 69.9 129 35.0 / 127 34.9 / 131 93.9 M Silver 67.9 119 33.8 / 114 34.1 / 123 89.9 M Red 63.7 113 31.6 / 113 32.1 / 113 84.7 M Silver 73.9 148 36.9 / 150 37.0 / 146 108.8 F Red 69.6 134 34.5 / 133 35.1 / 134 101.1 F

[Bye]

Breaking 100 came up in conversation in our group on Saturday. The lowest handicap at nearly +2 though he wouldn’t. I think he would, but it looked tough even before Saturday’s round.

 

Anything around 100 for a high single digit golfer would be very decent.

 

 

[heavy_hitter]

Harry Ellis and Phillip Barbaree are two really good collegiate golfers with plus handicaps that had an 80 and 82 respectively at this US Open. They are conditioned tournament golfers and have the ability to play at the highest level.

 

While I think there are some single digit cappers that may break 100, I think the majority would not. I don't think a scratch golfer breaks 90 on that course.

[Bomber_11]

I don't think I could in the spirit of honesty. Those guys do this for a living and still couldn't judge the speed, slopes, etc.

 

I'd 3-putt every green lol

[widow-maker]

They have members there who play the appropriate tees and break 80. It's not that penal of a golf course off of the tee. The fairways are plenty wide enough. It's a tough 2nd shot golf course. But, if you just play conservative, keep it short of the pin, I can't see it be very difficult at all for a true 5 handicapper to break 100. I'd think that if they got to know the golf course well enough, they'd be breaking 90. Most of the difficulty would come in learning how to hit chip shots around those greens if you're not used to it. Now, from the tees the pros played, that would be a much more difficult task, but to play that course at 6500 or less, I think it would just be a case of getting used to it. That looked like a very fair golf course to me.

[SkiSchoolPro]

Your dad is nuts. I'd bet he wouldn't shoot under 115.

That was my first thought, but the USGA disagrees (at least when it comes to ESC score)...from the white tees, the Shinnecock CR is 67.1 with a slope of 125 giving it a bogey rating of 90.2

https://ncrdb.usga.org/NCRDB/courseTeeInfo.aspx?CourseID=16821

[c7015]

I feel like no I could not as a 3

 

the short game aspect would be out of control

 

if Phil is putting off the green from 8 feet the amateur probably does it every other hole ... and then a few of the comeback chips come back to their feet or go over. I think the precision those guys have with their short game meant the tolerance for a miss was a foot or inches in some cases. The small margin of what a miss is would bring in a triple and double on too many holes for a single digit player.

 

I think course management would be hard for the single digit as well as presumably they have no experience with baked out greens like that. Even single digit tournament players rarely see courses playing like that and as a result, missing in the right spot happens a lot less often bringing in the quads + ...

[Your-away!]

I think its safe to say the "worst" of the Pro's would be about a +6 to +8 (a proper tournament H/C, not calculated with some friends)

 

And on Friday and saturday they were shooting in the 80's, did one pro shoot 92?

 

to suggest a handicap golfer between 5 and 10 breaks 100 is insane and to even think this shows how little you know about how courses are set up for tournaments

[MtlJeff]

On Saturday difficulty from pro pins I question if I could break 100 and I'm a 1.5 right now LoL

[TheCityGame]

I think it's a terrible way to reason to pick out one of the worst shots a pro hit all weekend (phil putting off the green from 8 feet) and concluding that an Am would be doing that all the time. Phil was trying to ram that putt in. I'm just getting that putt in motion and trying to 2 putt from 8 feet.

 

Also, whoever has a friend that is a +2 and doesn't think so. . .that dude is completely delusional. There were amateurs in that field who were probably +3's and 100 wasn't even nearly in play. That's just ludicrous.

 

The blow up thread that I'm sure people have come across was could a scratch break 85 at Augusta in Sunday conditions. It was a heated debate, so let's say, "it's close".

 

There's no way that Shinnecock was playing 15 strokes harder than that.

[TheCityGame]

I think its safe to say the "worst" of the Pro's would be about a +6 to +8 (a proper tournament H/C, not calculated with some friends)

That is not safe to say. That's very bold to say. We have plenty of examples of pro's keeping handicaps and the best pros are in that range and there's roughly a 4 stroke difference in average scoring from the best pros in any given year to the worst pros.

[MidwestGolfBum]

On Saturday difficulty from pro pins I question if I could break 100 and I'm a 1.5 right now LoL

 

Yeah, I'm a 1.4 right now and I'm also questioning if I could break 100 in the Saturday afternoon conditions.

[jacobEDGE]

My dad shot a 79 at Shinnecock 20-30 years ago, and is a scratch golfer. Obviously, course set up was slightly different, and he wasn't playing PGA Tour event tee boxes/lengths, but he said it's been his favorite round of his life.

[msonaglioni]

In two words: NO WAY

[Baitkiller]

I want to play with your dad.

[cdnglf]

I think its safe to say the "worst" of the Pro's would be about a +6 to +8 (a proper tournament H/C, not calculated with some friends)

 

And on Friday and saturday they were shooting in the 80's, did one pro shoot 92?

 

to suggest a handicap golfer between 5 and 10 breaks 100 is insane and to even think this shows how little you know about how courses are set up for tournaments

 

Average score on Saturday was 75.3. 8 players shot 80 or worse.