Professional Tour Caddies Today Are the Best They've Ever Been. Yet, Why Do So Many Pros Use Friends/Family as Caddies?

[JohnnyCashForever]

The list is pretty impressive.  Mickelson, DJ, Patrick Reed, Rory, Cink, Westwood, Stricker, et. al. all use friends or family as their primary caddie.  Obviously, these players value the close relationship with their chosen caddie, but are they leaving something on the table by not going with a "professional" caddie?  Or is the value of a top-notch professional caddie (eg, Joe LaCava, Steve Williams, Bones, Fluff, Fanny, or Jimmy Johnson) over-rated after a tour pro reaches a certain level?  Put another way, how many more majors would DJ have if he had someone like Bones Mackay on the bag for the last 10 years?  It might still be two, but I wonder.        

[MattM97]

Sometimes a family member, friend, former teammates knows how to get their head straight or get them to focus or even not focus on what's going on. Sometimes for an athlete not over thinking is the best thing for them in competition.

 

Some athletes may want a caddie who can guide them around the course shot for shot when others just want someone to bring them back down to earth when something goes wrong or right. Every athlete is difference.

[Hawkeye77]

There really aren't that many when you look at the total number of players on the PGA Tour and other tours - statistically it's pretty rare.

 

Comfort level, I assume.  

[North Butte]

Given the amount of time the player and caddie spend together in a typical year, far be it from me to second guess who a certain player chooses as the person they most want to spend that time with. And a lot of those friends and family have spent their lives immersed in golf just as much as the player, it's not that big a stretch for someone like that to learn how to caddie efficiently. 

 

[DavidCrockett]

"I use them because they're cheaper.  The only downside is holidays are a little awkward if you stiff them after a tournament." -- Matt Kuchar

[PJE]

Well, there's the old mantra about caddies, "Show up, keep up, shut up." So, in their minds, they might not feel the caddie is all that important and they'd rather hang with a family member or friend?

I know if I was Tour player, I'd hang with my wife as the caddy. She's really amusing.

Of course, I'd end up carrying the bag. She's petite. Or she'd be the first pro caddie with a pushcart. 

[North Butte]

19 minutes ago, PJE said:

Well, there's the old mantra about caddies, "Show up, keep up, shut up." So, in their minds, they might not feel the caddie is all that important and they'd rather hang with a family member or friend?

I know if I was Tour player, I'd hang with my wife as the caddy. She's really amusing.

Of course, I'd end up carrying the bag. She's petite. Or she'd be the first pro caddie with a pushcart. 

My wife and I would make a great team. And she's pretty fit, she could carry the bag. 

 

Of course "we" (the team) would play with just nine clubs in a Sunday bag but that's what teamwork's all about.

[Creedo77]

23 minutes ago, PJE said:

Well, there's the old mantra about caddies, "Show up, keep up, shut up." So, in their minds, they might not feel the caddie is all that important and they'd rather hang with a family member or friend?

I know if I was Tour player, I'd hang with my wife as the caddy. She's really amusing.

Of course, I'd end up carrying the bag. She's petite. Or she'd be the first pro caddie with a pushcart. 

That mantra died about 40 years ago

 

Today’s top players hang on a lot of what their guy says to them. 
 

The best example of this is Paul Tesori and Webb Simpson. Webb doesn’t pull the club back until Paul gives him the go ahead 

[Creedo77]

You’ve named 7 golfers out of 120/144 that play in an event most weeks. Realistically, it’s not a big number and plenty of guys have been with the same caddie for years 
 

It’s a weird conundrum but the few who have a family member on the bag are some of the best in the world. They don’t really need the assistance of what a regular caddie would do. Plus, they play the same courses every year so they’ve familiarized themselves with them. However, with the unique style of the game every player has different needs. There are plenty of top notch duos out on tour. 
 

I’ve caddied for 3 years on the KFT and the big thing about the job is keeping my guys mind off of golf. From the second we get to the ball to the second it landed, on most occasions we are out of golf mode and talking about the 100 other things that are going on outside of the tournament 

Edited May 25, 2021 by Creedo77

[MikeW2]

With the exception of Westwood, haven’t all the players mentioned won in the last year? Westie has a couple of seconds. Doesn’t seem to be a hindrance for them. And to address your point about DJ in the majors, how many guys like Couples, Norman, Langer, Olazabel, Furyk, DLIII, Zinger....who all used professional caddies only have one or two majors? Winning majors is hard. Each player has to figure out what works best for them.

[Hawkeye77]

26 minutes ago, MikeW2 said:

With the exception of Westwood, haven’t all the players mentioned won in the last year? Westie has a couple of seconds. Doesn’t seem to be a hindrance for them. And to address your point about DJ in the majors, how many guys like Couples, Norman, Langer, Olazabel, Furyk, DLIII, Zinger....who all used professional caddies only have one or two majors? Winning majors is hard. Each player has to figure out what works best for them.

Abu Dhabi and Race to Dubai for Lee last season!

[golfandfishing]

Why can’t they be friends/family AND a good caddie?  They aren’t mutually exclusive, and let’s be real here - acquiring the skills to be a good caddie isn’t that hard. Do we really think Steve Williams is some sort of genius?

[bscinstnct]

If I was a pro, I get my dear Dad as caddie,

 

He be like,

 

Don’t hit it in the water

 

🤣

[Creedo77]

30 minutes ago, golfandfishing said:

Why can’t they be friends/family AND a good caddie?  They aren’t mutually exclusive, and let’s be real here - acquiring the skills to be a good caddie isn’t that hard. Do we really think Steve Williams is some sort of genius?

It takes a long time to acquire the skills that Stevie has. These family/friends most likely won’t acquire them bc they won’t be around for that long. Austin Johnson sure but not the wifeys/friends bc even those on course relationship could get stale 

 

Austin Johnson doesn’t get the credit he deserves and he’s damn good at his job.

 

But there’s different levels of expectation. IMO that these friends/family have. Westys wife ain’t walking the course with her yardage book on Monday (bc she’s not expected to, as opposed to someone like Harry Diamond).

Edited May 25, 2021 by Creedo77

[farmer]

Remember when DJ tried to hit an upside down lob wedge left handed?  Caddy should have stepped up.  Van de Velde?  Caddy should have thrown every club longer than a 7 iron into the crowd.  When Phil got to the 18th tee at Winged Foot in '06 he was exhausted, physically and mentally.  If Bones had made him slow down and get his bearings, the outcome might have been different.  Family or not, caddies are not infallible.  

[Lagavulin62]

Another tired thread trying to elevate day laborers to a higher notch. Simple answer, they don't need them. And with these distance tools available that pretty much ends any value of having some greasy looking dude tagging along, then having to pay the guy 10+ percent, or whatever the going rate is. Personally I think it would add more stress having someone second guessing you all afternoon. Now if Phil could find a way to get Amy on the bag he'd probably win three more majors.  

Edited May 25, 2021 by Lagavulin62

[tatertot]

10 minutes ago, Lagavulin62 said:

Another tired thread trying to elevate day laborers to a higher notch. Simple answer, they don't need them. And with these distance tools available that pretty much ends any value of having some greasy looking dude tagging along, then having to pay the guy 10+ percent, or whatever the going rate is. Personally I think it would add more stress having someone second guessing you all afternoon. Now if Phil could find a way to get Amy on the bag he'd probably win three more majors.  

Most clueless post ever ... have you ever played, watched or been around tournament golf?

 

"Day laborer", "greasy looking dude tagging along" ... you have serious issues, may want to look into getting a life.

[manku]

Personally, I would hire local caddies...don't they know the course, and most importantly, the greens, better than a once-a-year visitor?

 

 

[Creedo77]

5 minutes ago, manku said:

Personally, I would hire local caddies...don't they know the course, and most importantly, the greens, better than a once-a-year visitor?

 

 

Pros already know those things better than some average joe. The local won’t know anything about their game nor anything about working week to week on a pro golf tour 
 

Hiring a local is tricky because you really don’t know what you’re going to get 

[Pepperturbo]

Some people are more relaxed having family or trusted friend on the bag, and I am in that category.  It's also a good way to help them financially.

 

If I am able to make standards for senior qualifying next year, three friends have said they'd love to carry the bag, including a woman.  None of them are single digit either, but all know golf.  All I'd have to do is guide each, and wouldn't have conflicting issues with them.  There's always unknowns when dealing with strangers, and having a caddy is personal, least to me when the game is serious. 

Edited May 25, 2021 by Pepperturbo

[doublehans]

It wouldn’t surprise me if some those pros looked at the size of the purse and thought the traditional caddie percentage was just a huge amount to pay. And the difference between a pro caddie and a friend/family member isn’t worth it. Rather just keep the money in house so to speak, even if you arent being Kuchar per se and still paying it out, it’s to someone in your inner circle. 
 

Do I think that’s the biggest factor, no. I think a lot of these guys value the relationship given all the travel, and just being able to keep your trusted circle tight too. Plus, the personal knowledge can add sthg to the caddie relationship that might make up for other things a less experienced caddie lacks. But I don’t discount that it still probably feels good to send that 10pc of a win to a friend/family instead of someone less close.

[Lagavulin62]

9 hours ago, tatertot said:

Most clueless post ever ... have you ever played, watched or been around tournament golf?

 

"Day laborer", "greasy looking dude tagging along" ... you have serious issues, may want to look into getting a life.

 

 

 

You are or were once a caddy right? 

[Mustard_Tiger]

10 hours ago, tatertot said:

Most clueless post ever ...

 

 

Tatertot, like anyone can even know that...

[tatertot]

2 hours ago, Lagavulin62 said:

 

 

 

You are or were once a caddy right? 

Nope ...

 

Never worked a day in your life ... Daddy handed you everything?

[freeze16172002]

5 hours ago, manku said:

Personally, I would hire local caddies...don't they know the course, and most importantly, the greens, better than a once-a-year visitor?

 

 

but they dont know your game, when the player asked are you good with me hitting a 6 here. what's the answer? i quess so....tour caddies walk the course pre tournament 

Edited May 26, 2021 by freeze16172002

[MtlJeff]

3 hours ago, doublehans said:

It wouldn’t surprise me if some those pros looked at the size of the purse and thought the traditional caddie percentage was just a huge amount to pay. And the difference between a pro caddie and a friend/family member isn’t worth it. Rather just keep the money in house so to speak, even if you arent being Kuchar per se and still paying it out, it’s to someone in your inner circle. 
 

Do I think that’s the biggest factor, no. I think a lot of these guys value the relationship given all the travel, and just being able to keep your trusted circle tight too. Plus, the personal knowledge can add sthg to the caddie relationship that might make up for other things a less experienced caddie lacks. But I don’t discount that it still probably feels good to send that 10pc of a win to a friend/family instead of someone less close.

 

I agree with this. Frankly i would imagine the Kuchar thing went over differently behind the scenes than on social media too certainly. Making it to the tour and staying on tour is hard , for some perhaps having a caddy is a big value, i would imagine for others that percentage of earnings is either unaffordable , or in their view a poor investment. People still hate Kuchar for what he did but i haven't seen many people argue the caddy deserved that money, the main arguments seemed to be that Kuchar made so much so he should be a good guy and change the guy's life

 

Seeing more players win with family members on the bag probably won't help the caddy cause long term.

 

The majority of players still use pro caddies as has been pointed out, i think that number will creep down over the years

[golfortennis]

20 minutes ago, MtlJeff said:

 

I agree with this. Frankly i would imagine the Kuchar thing went over differently behind the scenes than on social media too certainly. Making it to the tour and staying on tour is hard , for some perhaps having a caddy is a big value, i would imagine for others that percentage of earnings is either unaffordable , or in their view a poor investment. People still hate Kuchar for what he did but i haven't seen many people argue the caddy deserved that money, the main arguments seemed to be that Kuchar made so much so he should be a good guy and change the guy's life

 

Seeing more players win with family members on the bag probably won't help the caddy cause long term.

 

The majority of players still use pro caddies as has been pointed out, i think that number will creep down over the years

 

Haven't most caddies of the bigger players gone to a salary/bonus type structure for that exact reason?  Pays them well still, but keeps it from getting ridiculous.

[golfortennis]

23 hours ago, Creedo77 said:

That mantra died about 40 years ago

 

Today’s top players hang on a lot of what their guy says to them. 
 

The best example of this is Paul Tesori and Webb Simpson. Webb doesn’t pull the club back until Paul gives him the go ahead 

 

You're a good poster, so this is more tongue in cheek, but all I can think of when I read you posting here is "never ask a barber if you need a haircut."  

 

FTR, I do think there is some value in a caddie.  How much is debatable, but good ones help more than they hurt, definitely.  

[MtlJeff]

1 minute ago, golfortennis said:

 

Haven't most caddies of the bigger players gone to a salary/bonus type structure for that exact reason?  Pays them well still, but keeps it from getting ridiculous.

 

It's quite possible, admittedly I definitely don't know everything about those dynamics. I feel like the biggest threat to caddies would be guys in the middle or bubble guys though, like guys who are worried a bad year might leave them off the tour. Do they feel that expense is worth it? Right now the answer seems to be yes, but is that just more customs? Will it change....I am curious to see trends over next 5-10 years, especially if the tour starts paying the top guys more at the expense of the middle and bubble guys

[golfortennis]

7 minutes ago, MtlJeff said:

 

It's quite possible, admittedly I definitely don't know everything about those dynamics. I feel like the biggest threat to caddies would be guys in the middle or bubble guys though, like guys who are worried a bad year might leave them off the tour. Do they feel that expense is worth it? Right now the answer seems to be yes, but is that just more customs? Will it change....I am curious to see trends over next 5-10 years, especially if the tour starts paying the top guys more at the expense of the middle and bubble guys

 

I know at one point, if you used the traditional 5-7-10%, Steve Williams would have been #2 or 3 on the money list.  It was well known that he did not get paid on that scale.  I think Mark O'Meara was quite vocal about that as well when the purses started to really jump.  I think the guys who go into an agreement are the guys who aren't worried about their cards the next year.  I'm sure the guys you are talking about still basically work on almost vocal agreements.  

 

Although hopefully Creedo will have some insight for us there.