Playing professionals that did not have successful junior careers, nor play in college?

[st1800e]

Ok, you’re a player, I mean that sincerely. But why are you here asking us these questions?  And play as many tournaments as you can, only then will you find your game.  
 

Ben Hogan:
 

“Every day that you don't practice is one day longer before you achieve greatness”

[iBanesto]

I wonder if more young Americans would consider taking the Asian Tour/Japan Tour as an option to begin a career as a touring professional, given finding immediate success on the PGAT/KFT is rare.

 

Some examples:

• Payne Stewart
• Todd Hamilton
• Brian Watts
• David Ishii

All became successful touring professionals in their own respect.

 

Look at Brooks Koepka and Peter Uihelin started playing on the Challenge Tour.

 

Sample size is small because most Americans prefer to stay at home which is understandable.

 

Although the abovementioned professionals had varying success as an amateur.

[JungleJimbo]

58 minutes ago, iBanesto said:

I wonder if more young Americans would consider taking the Asian Tour/Japan Tour as an option to begin a career as a touring professional, given finding immediate success on the PGAT/KFT is rare.

 

Some examples:

• Payne Stewart
• Todd Hamilton
• Brian Watts
• David Ishii

All became successful touring professionals in their own respect.

 

Look at Brooks Koepka and Peter Uihelin started playing on the Challenge Tour.

 

Sample size is small because most Americans prefer to stay at home which is understandable.

 

Although the abovementioned professionals had varying success as an amateur.

I like the examples you've provided @iBanesto.

In more recent years ... how about Kurt Kitayama? (albeit hasn't yet reached the same heights as the examples in your list).
https://m.facebook.com/asiantourgolf/photos/kurt-kitayama-has-had-quite-the-rookie-season-on-the-asian-tour-1-win3-top-5s-no/10156971217516180/ 

Edited January 24, 2023 by JungleJimbo

[iBanesto]

3 minutes ago, JungleJimbo said:

I like the examples you've provided @iBanesto.

In more recent years ... how about Kurt Kitayama? (albeit hasn't yet reached the same heights as the examples in your list).
https://m.facebook.com/asiantourgolf/photos/kurt-kitayama-has-had-quite-the-rookie-season-on-the-asian-tour-1-win3-top-5s-no/10156971217516180/ 

 

Kitayama is another good example.

 

He has won on the European Tour and kept his PGA Tour card last season too.

 

Long hitter for a short guy.

[Yuck]

Azinger.  Not even the best in his high school.  Managed to go to Community college with a golf program.  Brevard Community College coach at that time was Jim Suttie and a lot of decent players did come out of there.  Over the next several years Zinger got better, went to FLorida State and eventually made his way onto tour,.

[Christosterone]

 

[dmecca2]

You mention that you are from the Philly area. Have you played in any GAP events, PA golf events, or USGA qualifiers? These are good tournaments against the best amateurs to get a barometer of where you stand.

 

I've had a handful of friends and competitors in college who decided to turn pro. They all travel to Florida, play in mini tours, and prepare for latin america and canada qschool. One was successful and is now on the PGA tour. All of the others have turned to teaching.

[Primo1868]

If you get a chance - read Paper Tiger, by Tom Coyne. He basically took a year off to, "chase the dream." Wonderfully read, and, should draw plenty of parallels to your potential future. 

[golfandfishing]

3 hours ago, iBanesto said:

I wonder if more young Americans would consider taking the Asian Tour/Japan Tour as an option to begin a career as a touring professional, given finding immediate success on the PGAT/KFT is rare.

 

Some examples:

• Payne Stewart
• Todd Hamilton
• Brian Watts
• David Ishii

All became successful touring professionals in their own respect.

 

Look at Brooks Koepka and Peter Uihelin started playing on the Challenge Tour.

 

Sample size is small because most Americans prefer to stay at home which is understandable.

 

Although the abovementioned professionals had varying success as an amateur.

The Asian Tour at one time was the place!  Even in the early days of the Hogan Tour when only 5 guys got cards and EVERYONE lost money playing it some guys would opt for Asia instead. A guy I knew played over there had some stories about it, said he saw a player get chased off the course during a tournament by a water Buffalo. 

[Ironman_32]

14 hours ago, So_Cal said:

They mentioned a stat during the Sony Open.  0.006% of golf pros make it to the PGA Tour.  Not saying it can’t be done, but those are the numbers.  

Agreed, and I was also going to mention this.

 

Definitely a skewed number though. I've been following a lot of MondayQ/Ryan French stuff and some random guys from my hometown trying to go pro; a lot of them are basically just dead money, no shot at making money, shouldn't even have tried going pro. Golf at the pro levels is set up for anyone to go pro, so once you factor out those guys the number gets better, not that much better, but better. You go look at some of these Q schools or Florida pro tournaments where its pay to play, some guys are dropping 80s/90s over 4 rounds barely make a birdie a round. 

 

Just look at some of these guys right on the cusp on the Korn Ferry tour. I follow James Nicholas, he plays/qualifies for the Korn Ferry. He dropped a 60 on that tour last year (shot 81 first round so its a MC), but even he has trouble finding a home to play. Has the game, just hard finding a fit. 

 

  Could someone get really good at 27 and make a run, I guess. It's the same thing when guys try to make the Champions tour because they think "if they really focus at 48" they can do it. Yes, Steven Alker did it, but you have to figure out how to beat Ernie Els and Vijay. 

 

[Ironman_32]

18 hours ago, jdl said:

JonesScott? 

 

 

I was going to post about this as well. I'll definitely watch, I find it a little hard sometimes watching some of these players who have families at home and are still trying to "make it" after 10+ years of trying; is commending because they're going after it or should they just get a regular job?

[Hkovo17]

10 hours ago, TheNutman said:

Wow, some negativity in here. Follow your dream, give it a shot,

 

but keep in mind a plan b such as meeting people in the golf industry. If you can't make it as a pro maybe you have a career around the game. Most of the time I'd rather be broke and playing golf than sitting behind computer all day and not broke. 

Me too brother.

[Hkovo17]

9 hours ago, st1800e said:

Ok, you’re a player, I mean that sincerely. But why are you here asking us these questions?  And play as many tournaments as you can, only then will you find your game.  
 

Ben Hogan:
 

“Every day that you don't practice is one day longer before you achieve greatness”

Appreciate that - on a deep level this thread is really about me not knowing what to do with my life and golf always being something, ever since I was kid, that I wanted to chase. Call it a true childhood dream. It's a pull on my chest that I still feel to this day. Initially wanted to read about similar stories to mine but didn't see much until a few posts in.

[Strategery]

I don't know anybody good enough to play on the Mackenzie Tour (PGA Tour Canada). If you managed to qualify and had a great season finishing #10 on tour for the year, you would have made $50k CAD which is close to the poverty line.

 

[jdl]

1 hour ago, Strategery said:

I don't know anybody good enough to play on the Mackenzie Tour (PGA Tour Canada). If you managed to qualify and had a great season finishing #10 on tour for the year, you would have made $50k CAD which is close to the poverty line.

 

And now they reduced the likelihood of advancing to the PGA on that route so it's even less attractive. I listened to a podcast recently with one pro (Dylan Meyer) who made the decision to try and Monday qualify into Korn Ferry events instead of trying the Mackenzie tour again.

[Wasted_Talent]

Nick Lindheim never played in college and somehow got through from the KF tour this past year.  

[bsuwara]

I could be wrong, but I honestly don’t think that the OP thinks it will be easy to make it or even if he will make it …

 

I was at a similar age one time and pursuing my passion that wasn’t wasn’t paying off financially as much as I had hoped and was talking to a friend from college who was killing it in his career and asked him his advice.
 

I remember him saying “You’ve got the rest of your life to work so what’s a few years of your life to pursue something you love even if it doesn’t pay off?”

 

Oddly enough, I fell into what has become my career (not my passion) for the past 20 plus years thru pursuing my passion.

 

I guess, to sum up, I say go for it … You know it will be hard and you know the odds aren’t in your favor, but in the end, better to have tried it, than to wonder “What if?”

 

Additionally, there will more than likely be important life lessons and experiences that you have on this journey that will help you throughout your life.

 

I see two likely potential outcomes:

1. You make it onto a professional tour and achieve your dream

2. You will have attempted to reach your dream but will decide that the time has come to stop pursuing it and you will be satisfied having attempted it and ending it on your terms

 

Keep us posted on what happens because I’m pulling for you!

[aenemated]

19 hours ago, Dutch1008 said:

The problems with LA aren't just housing affordability. The public golf here is pretty bad. There are two options, $50-60 to play 5 hour rounds at a beat up muni or $150+ to play something decent. There are some exceptions. I'd kill to have the resident rate at Torrey Pines. There are decent options in the Inland Empire but that's quite a hike from LA. But if you're looking to play and practice a lot, and to do those things at a course that is long and challenging, LA is a very expensive place to make that happen. 

 

QFT.

 

Unless you're 8 figures rich, you're not playing any tour-level courses in or anywhere near LA. Hell, just finding a decent practice facility is a challenge.

[mat562]

Larry Nelson is the first one to come to mind. And that ****** Poulter.

[straightshot7]

On 1/19/2023 at 12:24 PM, Hkovo17 said:

Didn't think to mention that in the OP but luckily I am in a position where all three do apply. And yes, I'm being serious. I know it's ridiculous and I know most people never even sniff a card, much less win something on Korn Ferry/Web, or even Canada/China/LA/Etc... The funny thing with professional golf - as you know - is you don't really have to win, you just have to play well enough.

You sort of get to this point in your late 20's where you ask yourself what you want to really do with your life. For me, playing competitively - and for money - is part of that, but I'm well aware it will probably take me down a different path (maybe teaching, conditioning, etc.).

Many avenues to explore, was just curious with my OP.
 

 

So you have unlimited funds?

If that is the case, then go for it. Why not?

If I had unlimited funds, I would go for it also. Even if you fail, you got to spend all day playing golf. 

We really need to know the details of your financial situation to give an accurate answer to this. If you won the lottery or have $50 million from your parents or something, then yeah go for it. Why not. 

[aus10KC]

48 minutes ago, straightshot7 said:

 

So you have unlimited funds?

If that is the case, then go for it. Why not?

If I had unlimited funds, I would go for it also. Even if you fail, you got to spend all day playing golf. 

We really need to know the details of your financial situation to give an accurate answer to this. If you won the lottery or have $50 million from your parents or something, then yeah go for it. Why not. 

 

Or just be a Stuart Hagestad and be an amateur king... easier to get into Augusta prob, just have to win the Mid Am. 

[jobin]

I agree that if the OP is seeking approbation from random strangers on the internet whether he should pursue a difficult and consuming course of action, his personal insecurity will deny him success.

 

Reminds me of a story told: Dad, think i should marry Suzy?  No son, she is not the girl for you.

Years later: Dad, think i should marry Jane?  No son, she is not the girl for you.

Next year: Dad, i'm gonna marry Margaret.  Good plan son.  She's the one for you.

[jdl]

Timely twitter thread - click the link to read it all.

 

 

Edited January 25, 2023 by jdl

[c7015]

Honestly probably no 

 

but I always wonder if people put the focus they think they are going to use to practice and play their way on the tour , they could probability invest a fraction of the time and money into making them selves into a pga tour caddie... 

 

caddies are often good players 

get paid a lot 

get to play and be around the game a lot 

 

if you give the tour a shot , you should be actively exercising your plan b of being a caddy 

[straightshot7]

3 minutes ago, c7015 said:

Honestly probably no 

 

but I always wonder if people put the focus they think they are going to use to practice and play their way on the tour , they could probability invest a fraction of the time and money into making them selves into a pga tour caddie... 

 

caddies are often good players 

get paid a lot 

get to play and be around the game a lot 

 

if you give the tour a shot , you should be actively exercising your plan b of being a caddy 

 

Don't only the caddies for top 50 players get "paid a lot"? 

Are those jobs laying around? I bet there are 5 seasoned caddies lined up for those bags if they ever open up.

And, doesn't being a caddie have zero job security? You can get fired at any moment if the player feels like it.

I could be wrong but I don't see caddie as the sure fire profession.

[PureStrikes54]

OP I think if you have the financial wherewithal and are a determined, relentless individual it could be potentially a good endeavor to pursue. 

 

I know there is a lot of talk in this thread that you need to be some mutant player to even have a chance. In my experience this is simply not the case. I play with a number of folks that have had some success on the pro circuit or are elite ams in the SoCal area. The thing that sticks out to me about their games is not necessarily "shock and awe" type shots like sticking a 4 iron from 230 to 4 feet, holing 25 footers all the time, or carrying the ball 320 in the air, but just how consistent they are for an entire round or multiple rounds. Nothing is stupid impressive, but the miss patterns are so playable it seems difficult for them to make bogies. This is the kind of game you want to strive for. If your plus cap is a 78 one day 68 the next day type cap that is not going to hold up well. 

 

I would caution giving up your AM status right away. Often times AMs have access to higher quality tournaments on more preferred days than mini tours and it's easier to get recognized by club manufacturers or sponsors being an elite am vs. a decent mini tour player. It seems the elite am to pro transition is much easier than the just working your way up straight away in the pro ranks. 

 

I'm in the SoCal area. Send me a DM if you want to link up and just talk shop about your game. 

[bladehunter]

13 minutes ago, straightshot7 said:

 

Don't only the caddies for top 50 players get "paid a lot"? 

Are those jobs laying around? I bet there are 5 seasoned caddies lined up for those bags if they ever open up.

And, doesn't being a caddie have zero job security? You can get fired at any moment if the player feels like it.

I could be wrong but I don't see caddie as the sure fire profession.

That’s any business owner. Or contractor.  We’re all subject to ruin everyday.  Period.   The truth is , there is no such thing as job security…..being an independent contractor is the closest thing you’ll get to.  Outside of a union job , which is just license to not be accountable.  
 

 

op.  The general rule is. If you ask , you fail.  But I’d say that’s outdated a bit.  Your Gen asks to be validated for everything. I’m not immune either.     Best thing to do is just pick a small goal , put your head down and work.  
 

like say “ win the mid am so I can play Augusta “.    Small goal compared to playing pro golf.  Large goal in the next say 5 years.  

[straightshot7]

2 hours ago, bladehunter said:

That’s any business owner. Or contractor.  We’re all subject to ruin everyday.  Period.   The truth is , there is no such thing as job security…..being an independent contractor is the closest thing you’ll get to.  Outside of a union job , which is just license to not be accountable.  
 

 

op.  The general rule is. If you ask , you fail.  But I’d say that’s outdated a bit.  Your Gen asks to be validated for everything. I’m not immune either.     Best thing to do is just pick a small goal , put your head down and work.  
 

like say “ win the mid am so I can play Augusta “.    Small goal compared to playing pro golf.  Large goal in the next say 5 years.  

 

 

Okay but the idea that a high paying caddie job is really attainable? Do you agree with that?

It's more of a long shot, imo.

 

or a really long road of paying your dues and finally getting "lucky" enough to get on a top player's bag.

[mshills]

Getting on a bag full time on the big tour today, without some deep connections and relationships?  Not impossible, but close.  Definitely a LONG shot.

 

Believe me, you think it's struggle city working your way up as a player....working your way up as a caddie is lean indeed.

[Krt22]

52 minutes ago, straightshot7 said:

 

 

Okay but the idea that a high paying caddie job is really attainable? Do you agree with that?

It's more of a long shot, imo.

 

or a really long road of paying your dues and finally getting "lucky" enough to get on a top player's bag.

It's probably more attainable than a high paying tour player job