Will 15 clubs or more help you lower your score?

[Myherobobhope]

> @Joelsim said:

> > @Justsomeguy said:

> > I like to play 15 wedges. 49-64*. Really covers the gaps when I need to hit the ball 82 yards instead of 83. I can just use my standard 3/8 swing instead of having to resort to a 5/16.

>

> What about bounce options?

>

>

 

Can you imagine the pace of play nightmare as some guy sorts between 5 different bounce options to flub it and then start all over? Nightmare.

[MtlJeff]

theoretically having 100 clubs or something means you could have a club for every possible yardage, so theoretically it might make you better. But i'm not sure you could ever practice enough to be comfortable with every club.

 

14 seems right. if i used 13 or 15 i'm sure my scores wouldn't change.

 

I'd go no. i don't think more clubs would help my scores

[Justsomeguy]

> @Joelsim said:

> > @Justsomeguy said:

> > I like to play 15 wedges. 49-64*. Really covers the gaps when I need to hit the ball 82 yards instead of 83. I can just use my standard 3/8 swing instead of having to resort to a 5/16.

>

> What about bounce options?

>

>

 

I have a solar powered grinder in my carry bag. Should the situation call for it, I can turn a 12 into a 10 in eight minutes.

[davep043]

> @dlygrisse said:

 

> I think for awhile the USGA allowed 16 clubs, but the PGA only allowed 14. Or vice versa. So playing the US Open or the US Am you could carry 16, but for normal tour events 14.

>

> Personally I think they should reduce it to 12 just to watch everyones head spin, there would be like 3,000 loft gapping threads on this site alone. I'm guessing if they did no ones handicap would change much.

If we believe this website, http://www.ruleshistory.com/clubs.html, the USGA limited the number to 14 initially, and the R&A followed shortly behind

>The flexibility of approach to shot making from hickories was stifled by steel-shafted clubs, so players chose to carry a large number of them of them in order to re-create the strokes required on the course. This prompted the USGA into limiting the number of clubs carried to 14 on 1 Jan 1938; the R&A followed suit 1 May, 1939.

For me, and I believe for most golfers, adding a club wouldn't change the scores a bit.

[MountainKing]

I wouldn't mind having the option of adding in a 64* or carry two same loft wedges with different bounces or some sort of specialty club, but I highly doubt it would impact my scores on a day to day basis since I try to keep myself out of situations where I need a specialty club. At least half the courses I play I could easily get away with 10 clubs or less.

[supdawgie]

Definitely fewer clubs.

[golfgirlrobin]

I could definitely use a 15th club, primarily because carrying a 64* wedge means that I have to make compromises at the top of the bag. Don’t know what I’d do with a 16th, but one more would be helpful.

[BYK]

No

[pinestreetgolf]

> @Mcgeeno said:

> I played on Wednesday with my normal SL set and shot 71 on mens day.

>

> I played last night with my best buddy. We made a fun wager as I had bought a set of Northwestern Qualifier clubs at a garage sale on the weekend for nostalgia.

>

> 1 and 3 wood persimmons. 3-5-7-9 irons and a bullseye putter.

>

> I shot 72 with that set last night and it really made me question why I spend so much money on gear hahaha.

>

> More clubs might give you a bunch more options but I found I was able to think less about every shot last night. "Oh crap this is a hard 9" or "Guess I gotta go soft 7 here and try to hit it higher"

>

> I shot the same scores with a half set of 30 year old clubs I hadnt even swung before.

>

 

Do you want to buy my keep-tigers-away rock? It works, I swear. You don't see any Tigers around here, do you?

 

Seriously though, of course you'd shoot lower scores with more than 14 clubs *if* you were really good at making great decisions on a golf course. For every club you add, the amount of possible shots goes up exponentially not linearly. So 16 clubs is way more complex compared to 14 than 4 is compared to 2. 20 clubs would be almost dizzyingly complex BUT would be better if you could handle the decision trees.

 

If you're not good at making decisions, your score will go up if you have to make more decisions. If you're good at making decisions, your score will go down if you have to make more decisions.

 

People on this board are constantly advising other players to improve scores by playing with fewer clubs but that only works if you are a golfer who gets in your own head but has solid mechanics underneath it all. Players without solid mechanics who give themselves fewer decisions just take out the one part of the game they might be good at.

[AC168]

A skilled player, the more clubs the better for sure.

[sdandrea]

7 clubs would probably lower my scores.

[starrman77]

If you can't score with 14 clubs, try getting a ball retriever. At least you won't lose as many balls.

[St Jimmy]

I'd like to add a 64 to my current bag just in case I need that crazy flop shot.

 

When I was playing JPX 900's I wanted to add a 48 degree wedge to cover the insane gap between the PW and my 52 wedge.

So yes, I think it would help me.

[Myherobobhope]

> @pinestreetgolf said:

> > @Mcgeeno said:

> > I played on Wednesday with my normal SL set and shot 71 on mens day.

> >

> > I played last night with my best buddy. We made a fun wager as I had bought a set of Northwestern Qualifier clubs at a garage sale on the weekend for nostalgia.

> >

> > 1 and 3 wood persimmons. 3-5-7-9 irons and a bullseye putter.

> >

> > I shot 72 with that set last night and it really made me question why I spend so much money on gear hahaha.

> >

> > More clubs might give you a bunch more options but I found I was able to think less about every shot last night. "Oh crap this is a hard 9" or "Guess I gotta go soft 7 here and try to hit it higher"

> >

> > I shot the same scores with a half set of 30 year old clubs I hadnt even swung before.

> >

>

> Do you want to buy my keep-tigers-away rock? It works, I swear. You don't see any Tigers around here, do you?

>

> Seriously though, of course you'd shoot lower scores with more than 14 clubs *if* you were really good at making great decisions on a golf course. For every club you add, the amount of possible shots goes up exponentially not linearly. So 16 clubs is way more complex compared to 14 than 4 is compared to 2. 20 clubs would be almost dizzyingly complex BUT would be better if you could handle the decision trees.

>

> If you're not good at making decisions, your score will go up if you have to make more decisions. If you're good at making decisions, your score will go down if you have to make more decisions.

>

> People on this board are constantly advising other players to improve scores by playing with fewer clubs but that only works if you are a golfer who gets in your own head but has solid mechanics underneath it all. Players without solid mechanics who give themselves fewer decisions just take out the one part of the game they might be good at.

 

I don't think adding clubs adds complexity, I just don't think I am a consistent enough ball striker to take advantage of additional clubs.

 

As a fun thought experiment: You are tasked with holing out on a certain hole, you have 100 attempts. You can change one variable between each shot: Either adjust the club or adjust your swing... you are not a robot. Getting handed the club that would have worked perfectly on the previous shot isn't going to help you on the next shot... you would want to make a different swing.

 

Hitting a 100 different clubs with minute changes and trying to make the same swing every time seems crazy to me... maybe I'm just not a good enough golfer.

[miles2go]

> @Joelsim said:

> I’d like to be able to take all my clubs, simply as I don’t like leaving them at home, think they’re going to get lonely.

 

Apparently you are not alone with that thought.

Real pic from my club parking lot.

[kiwihacker]

I would like to play Driver, 4 wood, 20° hybrid, 23° hybrid, 24° 4 iron - 47° Pitching Wedge, 50° Gap wedge, 54° Sand wedge and 58° Lob wedge, Putter

 

That's 15 clubs. To compromise and only play 14 clubs I either drop the 4 iron (leaving a hole in my yardages) or play 3 wedges 47, 52, 58.

 

Not saying I would score better but my ideal setup is 15 clubs.

[Radeon962]

When I carry my bag, I take out every other iron and find I shoot similar scores. Side benefit is that I learn to hit more shots with the clubs i carry.

 

[Gary Gutful]

I would add a 64*. That would be enough.

[zdobson71]

Our club has a 3 club tournament each year. Being a shorter course but many players saw the scores around the same and some lower. Interesting challenge.

[Titleist_PT23]

> @Radeon962 said:

> When I carry my bag, I take out every other iron and find I shoot similar scores. Side benefit is that I learn to hit more shots with the clubs i carry.

>

Just curious, what do you usually shoot around?

 

My belief is that for the mid/high handicap playing with fewer clubs doesn't matter much, as it doesn't make a difference if you pulled 7 iron or 8 iron and missed the centre (or the path was screwed up, etc).

 

Better players can arguably hit decent shots with any clubs, although there best shots may not be quite as good if they don't have the best tools for the situation. I mean a pro could beat most of us with 6 clubs but no one would expect them to tee it up at the Open with less than a full bag.

[AC168]

For a better player, for sure more clubs would mean lower scores ... drastically, reduce need for partial shots ... controlling trajectory ... different bounces and grinds, etc.

[scomac2002]

I am also from the less is more camp. I routinely play around 12 and that's with a specialty club in the mix that I'm trying to learn how to use more effectively.

 

My best season in league was accomplished with 11 clubs and that got me down to an 8. At this point i'm just a slow swing speed, higher handicap senior golfer who doesn't need anymore than 12 to get meaningful gaps (probably easily accomplished by tossing a couple of irons aside).

 

Let's face it, from beyond 150 the chances of me being on the green are pretty low so I don't need every conceivable yardage covered. It's far more useful to be able to have reliable control from inside of 50 yards which will be more about technique than club options.

 

On the long end, it's about advancing the ball reliably which in my case means over 150 use the hybrid; over 165 use the 7W. That's plenty of options when your tee ball maxes out at 200 with a driver.

[Davidv]

Absolutely not plain and simple.

[North Butte]

Just out of curiosity I loaded up my bag with 14 clubs, including a couple I wouldn't normally carry and would hardly ever have use for. Played three rounds. I did end up using one of them once and the other one twice but I think that's more because they were sitting there rather than out of actual need.

 

Obviously no difference in scoring but I was surprised to notice how much heavier my bag felt with 14 clubs instead of 12. Not that I actually carry it, the bag is a Titleist Players 4 stand bag that I use on a three-wheel push cart. But just picking it up carrying it out to the car or taking it on and off the trolley it felt like it was full of rocks.

 

The weight is 23-1/2 pounds with 14 clubs and 21-1/2 pounds with 12. Funny how after a couple hundred rounds with the bag weighing the same every time an extra 10% of weight feels like a ton. If I actually schlepped the bag on my shoulder to play I'd probably whittle it down to 9 or 10 clubs!

[Myherobobhope]

> @"North Butte" said:

> Just out of curiosity I loaded up my bag with 14 clubs, including a couple I wouldn't normally carry and would hardly ever have use for. Played three rounds. I did end up using one of them once and the other one twice but I think that's more because they were sitting there rather than out of actual need.

>

> Obviously no difference in scoring but I was surprised to notice how much heavier my bag felt with 14 clubs instead of 12. Not that I actually carry it, the bag is a Titleist Players 4 stand bag that I use on a three-wheel push cart. But just picking it up carrying it out to the car or taking it on and off the trolley it felt like it was full of rocks.

>

> The weight is 23-1/2 pounds with 14 clubs and 21-1/2 pounds with 12. Funny how after a couple hundred rounds with the bag weighing the same every time an extra 10% of weight feels like a ton. If I actually schlepped the bag on my shoulder to play I'd probably whittle it down to 9 or 10 clubs!

 

Ha! I carry my bag still and I can definitely tell when it's time to clean out the old ball portion. Weight changes are definitely noticeable.

 

I think this concept boils down to a few overall points:

 

More clubs lead to more choices to make on the course, which is theoretically a good thing, but I'm not confident the additional options counterbalance the additional decision making needed for the majority of shots.

 

14 clubs is an arbitrary number that has been built around for almost 100 years... club design is built with that limitation in mind, so gaps are build to cover a player with 14 clubs in their bag. It's not hard and fast, most can get by with less clubs, some would love an additional club or two.

 

For me, overall, learning to hit the club as far as I WANT it to go, vs adjusting myself to how far my clubs CAN go has been a big change in my golf game... This makes me less dependent on different clubs and more dependent on different swings... I think it's better for my game overall, especially with a club limitation. My strategy might be different if clubs were adjustable during the round...

[North Butte]

I do have the additional advantage of only hitting each club in a 14-club set about 10-12 yards more than the next shorter club.

 

If I were a bigger hitter where, say, a 6-iron was 200 and a 9-iron was 150 maybe I'd see some advantage to filling in gaps with more than 14. Hard to "fill" a supposed "gap" when one club goes 140 and the next one down goes 130!

[pinestreetgolf]

Given that you don't have to hit any of the extra clubs I can't see how in the world having fewer would make your score better. Unless you are saying that you are so bad at choosing a club / course management its better for your score to have the choice made for you?

 

You could play with 2,000 clubs and you are telling me there is no scenario where one of those clubs would be better than the 9 or 10 some of you are claiming is optimal?! There is no way that's correct. Again, *you are choosing the club* - so 10 and 2,000 are exactly the same if you want them to be. There is only upside. Thinking there is downside with more clubs in the bag is irrational - you can always act as if you have 10, no matter how many you actually have........

[North Butte]

> @pinestreetgolf said:

> Given that you don't have to hit any of the extra clubs I can't see how in the world having fewer would make your score better. Unless you are saying that you are so bad at choosing a club / course management its better for your score to have the choice made for you?

>

> You could play with 2,000 clubs and you are telling me there is no scenario where one of those clubs would be better than the 9 or 10 some of you are claiming is optimal?! There is no way that's correct. Again, *you are choosing the club* - so 10 and 2,000 are exactly the same if you want them to be. There is only upside. Thinking there is downside with more clubs in the bag is irrational - you can always act as if you have 10, no matter how many you actually have........

 

You'll occasionally find similar "reasoning" over on the forum that discusses golf course architecture. Many of the Deep Thinkers there will insist if you take a hole with 30-yard wide fairways and cut down the rough for another 30 yards down the entire right side this will make the hole tougher.

 

The reason? With all that space to aim at the golfer might get confused and think he ought to hit the ball way over to the right, thereby giving himself a worse angle to the green. Whereas if it's rough he'll be "forced" to aim down the middle of the fairway which is the best place to be anyway.

 

It's the "all golfers are emotionally fragile morons" theory. Any additional option a golfer faces will make him play worse because he'll get confused and anxious.

[Myherobobhope]

> @pinestreetgolf said:

> Given that you don't have to hit any of the extra clubs I can't see how in the world having fewer would make your score better. Unless you are saying that you are so bad at choosing a club / course management its better for your score to have the choice made for you?

>

> You could play with 2,000 clubs and you are telling me there is no scenario where one of those clubs would be better than the 9 or 10 some of you are claiming is optimal?! There is no way that's correct. Again, *you are choosing the club* - so 10 and 2,000 are exactly the same if you want them to be. There is only upside. Thinking there is downside with more clubs in the bag is irrational - you can always act as if you have 10, no matter how many you actually have........

 

You aren't wrong. Having an infinite club selection should improve overall score. How much each additional club improves your scoring after 14 is an interesting question, though. Putting yourself at distances you are comfortable from on the golf course is currently part of the game. Less clubs can help you improve on that process...

 

Obviously pros carry 14 clubs for a reason. There is no downside for them having additional options. I'm not sure that's the case with the majority of golfers.

[bullsfan]

Less is definitely more with this regard. Most golfers over complicate this.