Jack Nicklaus on Today's players

[Titleist99]

IMO......The PGATOUR sells distance, Just watch any commercial during a telecast or any ad during The Golf Channel. The manufactures subsidize the tour. The manufactures pay the athletes (Golfers) to use their equipment, golf balls and golf clubs. Every week there's a new ad claiming that you can buy distance with the latest club or ball. Now take that away, start making ball that don't fly as far as their predecessors, player will loose endorsement dollars, the short knockers will be banished from the tour because those players will all max out the distance with the new ball and eventually they all will send it 270 yards and mediocrity will appear. Television viewers will plummet because they don't want to pay a premium to watch guys hit it as far as they do. the game will become more difficult and the game will not grow.......Golf courses will close at a phenomenal rate and turn into housing developments. The only place that will excel is.... TopGolf because everyone will be using range balls anyway.......IMO

[KRAMER1997]

He's got a point in some ways. I doubt Tiger Woods in his 20's would've gone on Spring break after the Masters like Rickie Fowler and Spieth. Whenever I hear someone call a player like Koepka/Mcilroy the next Tiger, I kind of chuckle. Unless someone can multiple majors by 10+ shots, win 4 straight majors, over 70 times on tour/10+ majors, they aren't even in the same conversation as Tiger. When I hear the competition is tougher, that's a bunch of BS.

[geesecougar2]

Great post. It's not a question of work, it's a question of risk taking.

There are only 125 spots on the tour, and these guys have to do what they have to do to keep their cards. There are countless Tour winners who have lost their cards, and guys have to do what they have to do to keep their spot. Other sports, guys have locked in contracts and some kind of guarantee that allows them to take more risks in how they approach the game.

Maybe if membership was restructured so you had a card for multiple years without needing to win, or with more exempt spots, or with more opposite field events, we'd see some more risk taking in the game.

[Soloman1]

6-foot putt on the last hole of the second round in 1972.

Caddy said; "This putt has got a lot of nutritional value."

"What are you talking about?"

"You don't make it, we don't eat."

[aenemated]

I totally agree with Jack and it's why I really don't expect to see anyone dominate like Tiger again ... at least in my lifetime.

But also, I sure don't blame any of them.

[Ironman_32]

Its just following Palmer's roadmap...don't sell these guys as winners, sell them as celebrities. Why does Rickie need to win 30 times if he can win 5 and still get the deals.

 

 

[smashdn]

Mediocrity or parity?

You just shift the magnitude of importance of the various variables needed to win. It becomes less about distance and more weighted to something else.

The money is made from tv revenue. TV revenue is driven by advertising attractiveness (ie how many eyes you have on your advertisement). Eyes are driven by viewership. Distance doesn't come across on tv real well until they start overlaying lines on the fairways and adding numbers (like in long drive comps). What does, imo, come across pretty good is those shot tracer things. But they are at times impressive with shorter shots too. The most impressive ones of those are Bubba's when he bends the crap out of it or someone hitting head high stingers.

But if you are telling me people tune in to see people drive it a long way I'll agree. Why not show less of the other shots then? If they cut out showing approaches all together they could streamline the broadcast and devote more camera to the greens and tee boxes. No need for a camera guy to lug a camera down the fairway and hustle to get behind a guy getting ready to hit from the fairway.

[Titleist99]

Well, I respectfully disagree people do tune in to see the long ball but not exclusively. The reason that they do is because the talking heads hype that part of the game way more than they should. I really get tired of them ramping up Bryson D. because he hit a few 350 yard drives. If you didn't know better you'd think that every player hits it accurately 300+ yards when the Tour average is 290yards on a good day.

[smashdn]

I think you are underestimating that number based upon the stats on the PGA Tour website.

There are 216 places on the driving distance stat ranking (YTD 2020). Number 108 is Charley Hoffman at 296.9. 290 yards is broken at number 161. Only 55 guys average less than 290 off the tee. 300 yard threshold is at 71. There are more guys averaging more than 300 than less than 290.

You added accurately. I only looked at distance. But my understanding that to be measureable for that week it has to be in the fairway or first cut.

 

The last five years or so there has not been a step-change event(that I can recall) in distance gains like the introduction of metal woods, or graphite shafts or ProV1. But in 2020 the leader in distance is about 5 more yards. The middle player average is a hair more than 7 yards longer (296.9 v 289.8) and the bottom is almost 7 more yards (276.8 v 270).

[MUNIGRIT]

CH3 is the ultimate check casher.

[Ferguson]

 

You are hereby, shocked. A crock of what.....chowder?

 

The modern player works harder on his social media image than he does his game. And when it fails, he points the finger at a caddie or muscle strain.

 

The players of yesterday were real men who played with uncomfortable shoes, inconsistent balls and without the need to "be liked."

 

 

 

[Titleist99]

You are correct, that number is 71 that average 300+. Brendon Todd is 209th on the list at 280 yards off the tee and 276 all drives which I think is more accurate......yet he's won twice this year and is currently leading the FedEx St. Jude. Could be his 72% accuracy have a lot to do with that....

[LeoLeo99]

In the words of Knish: I'm not playing for the thrill of _ victory here.

I owe rent, alimony, child support. I play for money.

My kids eat.

[molecularman]

That was the first guy I thought of.

 

I disagree with Jack here. I think for the vast majority of players - it takes an extreme amount of work to become a PGA tour player AND stay on tour. There is a reason why people like Jack and Tiger come around once every few decades, and it isn't just because they worked harder than everyone else.

[Dave230]

I think this is one of those intangibles that are quite irrelevant.

Even if every player on Tour worked as hard as Tiger Woods then it’s still a meritocracy. So half the players still have to miss the cut every week, if the level increased with this ‘hard work’ then maybe the cut is -3 instead of E but you’re still cut if you don’t make that number. And these 144 machines every week that equally work their ass off, only one of them can win in a given week.

If anything Jack’s era, the players probably won more because not everybody was doing the same level or efficiency of practice and Jack was miles ahead. It’s harder than ever to be miles ahead today.

[OrangeGravy]

Not to mention that unless you've played the particular tournament course you're watching, you'd have no idea how far they are or aren't hitting it without the tv commentators squawking about it. Distance sells to golfers (at least the hope of more distance via marketing), I don't think it plays into viewership much if any at all. The only time it might draw more viewers is if you have someone doing the Bryson and hitting it significantly further than everyone else. Even then, the novelty wears off quickly unless he's dominating often.

[Titleist 670]

I think there is far more competition in golf now than in Jack's era. Pros used to say if they lost their card, at one point it was easy for them to get it back through Q school, but as the Tiger era evolved that became much tougher.

Also, since you can make a good living playing golf, you've got tons of people shooting insane scores in Monday qualifiers and tournaments because they are "going for it", trying to cash a big check and secure their Tour card for the next two years. Even if a guy wins and takes it easy for awhile, you've always got that crop of young hungry golfers trying to hit it 320 and shoot 63. Young golfers now seem much less "afraid" of winning than ever before, and golf is a much more global game.

And the reason why Tiger Woods was so great was because he has the once in a lifetime talent combined with work ethic. You can't expect everyone to have that - that's why he's Tiger Woods and they aren't.

[stingerfade]

His novelty wore off before this season started.

 

LOOK AN ANT!

[Ashley Schaeffer]

Talk to any octogenarian, and you’re going to hear some off the wall opinions presented as fact. I think it’s just as much the fault of the media seeking comment(s) from Nicklaus as it is Nicklaus saying nonsensical things. They know he’s going to say something wacky, and it’s going to get them clicks. Stop sticking a mic in front of the guy, let him enjoy his one tournament, and let him live out the out the rest of his days.

[gvogel]

Who cares about the putting. Anyone can do that. The TV producers could stop showing that entirely.

[oikos1]

"Why not show less of the other shots then?"

Because viewers like to see it all. Distance is just one component, but it is weighted more heavily as it's pretty awesome to watch someone hit a ball over 300 yards straight down the middle. Not a lot of golfers have that shot in their bag.

[mahonie]

...as shown by most of the pros over the last 2 days! BCD only hit 4 fairways/first cut of rough all day.

[NoTalentLefty]

Believe that many tour players now are working on strength training rather than hitting balls all day long. In this day you’re going to see a lot of “relaxing” pros just because of social media. They want the numbers, the fans, to like them. Don’t think Tiger ever cared, which isn’t a bad thing. To your own self be true.

[nsxguy]

So because he's 80 he has no idea what he's talking about ?

And which are some of those "nonsensical" things again ?

Talk about wacky !!! LMAO

[bscinstnct]

In 2019, Charlie Hoffman was #77 on the money list. He had one 2nd, 2 more top 10s, 2 more top 25s.

 

He made 1.47MM

 

In 1980, Scott Hoch was #77 on the money list. He actually won a tournament (Quad Cities Open), and had 3 more top 25s.

 

He made 45,600.

 

Inflation adjusted for 2019, that’s 144,000

 

Id say Jack has a pretty good point ; )

 

 

[Ashley Schaeffer]

Never said that, at all.See topic. The point is the card-keepers are now comfortable given prize money and endorsements. The opinion is that, therefore, they don’t have to work as hard. Which, many seem to believe, is false.I’m just saying I think the media is starting to realize it can produce some click worthy material by getting him to talk about the modern game, and I find it rather lazy and pathetic. Guy did a lot to get the game where it is now. Time to lay off him.

[BNGL]

I’ll echo this sentiment having worked with him on a project at a golf course he renovated. Do me a solid, take everything Jack says with a grain of salt. We drove all around all 18 twice in a day once 1-18 then 18-1 he made a ton of suggestions, half of which Jackie and another from Nicklaus Design just looked at us and shook their heads, “no”.

Also having read his quote, I think he’s absolutely correct but that’s what sets the great ones apart from the not so great. In any walk of life there’s some that are just different, they posses that drive and talent to be the best. By no means was I as good a player as Nicklaus but I was a damn good superintendent, and I wanted the best of everything and didn’t care what it took. I had to let go of a lot of good assistants and interns because they didn’t fit my mold I wanted. It always boggled my mind that others were just content to work a great golf course, not make an impact at a great golf course. For guys as good as Jack I imagine it is frustrating to see players not trying as hard as he felt he did, regardless of the money or time period.

[puttfordoux]

I think what Jack is getting at is that golf needs another dominant player like himself and Tiger to survive long-term, and Jack doesn't see anyone like that right now. You're going to have to work like Tiger to become dominant. It is because of Tiger's dominance that the rest of the tour players have it so good right now, but it won't last forever.

[Naptime]

I think it's more than just effort, this isn't climbing some mountain where there is no fixed limit on successful summits. There is a limited number of possible wins on tour, and more than double that number of players. So even if every one of them played his best possible maximized potential game every week there would still be 120 losers every week. If winning were a random event among equal golfers then a typical pro might win once in 3 or 4 years.

[Emthree]

Anthony Kim springs to mind. Made enough to set him up for life and has just vanished.