How could anyone be a fan of Patrick Reed?

[Pepperturbo]

2 minutes ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

 

I don't like him and would not root for him for some of the reasons you state.  I'm also open minded enough to revise my opinion upon further evaluation about the Farmers alleged cheating--- I don't think he cheated.  However it's all the other stuff that bugs me about him.  His self-proclaimed top 5 in the world. I don't think he's ever been top 5.  Having his parents thrown out of The Masters. Regardless of their history --- they weren't heckling him so they deserved to be there like anyone else (please correct me if I'm wrong).  The "I bet if my name were Jordan Spieth" comment and then the blatant cheating digging preshot routine in the bunker and his BS explanation.

I don't care if you like Reed or not.  That said, we as mature adults capable of critical reasoning must use our intelligence to measure perspective.  First, the Rules official said Reed broke NO rules.  There are no current dots to connect with other dots to make some picture that can only lead to supposition.  Based on the rule's authority, Reed and Rory did NOT break the rules.  Hence, character should NOT be a discussion, unless someone has an unhealthy bias that is distorting their ability to reason.

 

Currently, Reed is ranked 10th, last year 6th.  Though he hasn't reached the top five, it's pretty damn good, even better than most, to have reached 6th and taken a Green Jacket. Then there's this: Patrick Reed has spent a total of 63 weeks ranked in the top 10. His longest stretch was 22 consecutive weeks between February 24, 2020, and October 19, 2020. 

 

If you ever subscribed to motivational speaker "Tony Robbins" you'd have heard him talk about the frame of mind needed to accomplish great goals.  I am not talking about hitting the goal ball, more like seeking a 60s subpar score when others believe they can't, so you can't.  Stating with where you see yourself in one year, five years, ten years, etc.  They must be specific goals too.  You must see yourself reach each goal and living each goal.  A person that wants to accomplish a great goal can't be afraid of telling others what his goals are and do what's necessary, within his moral code to reach those goals.  I'd say Reed has more than lived up to his proclamation or goal and still can reach the top five.  I am a product of that thinking in business and golf, too.  One man's 2cents.

 

 

[NoCalHack]

6 hours ago, Shilgy said:

Rory hits his wedge 177 yards? Damn.....

Yeah it was a 5 iron I think.  But it was sky high and came straight down.

 

 

The fact of the matter is that reputation matters here, unfortunately.  Rory once gave himself a worse lie out of fairness.  Reed was accused of cheating in college qualifiers and had that incident in the bunker.

 

The way he approached it was highly suspicious.    To ask if it bounced before he got to his ball.  The video showing a soft bounce prior to landing.  The way he moved it.  The way he asked for the official after he moved it.  

 

To me, if you asked me to bet my own money on what happened, I bet that his ball wasn't embedded and he knowingly cheated.  Sorry.  If you want to accuse me of being biased based on the past, yeah.  I am.  But everyone gets judged on their past actions.  Fact of life.

 

 

 

 

[dlygrisse]

49 minutes ago, t4t3r said:

Surely you jest?

A quick Google search shows that he is currently #2 on the PGA tour in Strokes gained Putting.  Andy Ogletree is #1 with far fewer rounds.  For what it's worth.  

[kwcsports]

I like watching him play golf, but there is little doubt in my mind that he is a cheater. I can live with those 2 things quite easily. No need to get worked up.haha

[t4t3r]

19 minutes ago, dlygrisse said:

A quick Google search shows that he is currently #2 on the PGA tour in Strokes gained Putting.  Andy Ogletree is #1 with far fewer rounds.  For what it's worth.  

Exactly. For the 2021 season. It’s February. 
 

in 2020 he was top 15 I think and 2019 he was top 50. Good? Yes. Great? Maybe even great. But certainly not the best on tour.

[2bGood]

6 hours ago, dlygrisse said:

Well Brandel was one of the big instigators, and he works for TGC last time I checked.  His twitter feed didn't help things much, or in their opinion, they probably helped things quite a bit.  

You give Brandel way too much credit, I doubt he could whip cream with a blender let alone whip up this controversy. 
 

He needs a willing audience and there was one ready and waiting. As many have pointed out if he went off like that against most other golfers, he would not get support for his comments. Reed however is viewed in a certain way ( I think for good reason) and that is why it got traction. 

Edited February 3, 2021 by 2bGood

[dlygrisse]

1 minute ago, 2bGood said:

You give Brandel way too much credit, I doubt he could whip cream with a blender let alone whip up this controversy. 
 

He needs a willing audience and there was one ready and waiting. As many have pointed out if he went off like that against most other golfers, he would not get support for his comments. Reed however is viewed in certain way ( I think for good reason) and that is why it got traction. 

I wasn't paying any attention Saturday, then my golf buddy texted and told me Reed was in a firestorm again about the rules.  So Sunday morning I turned on TGC, and watched the coverage, it's immediately what was being discussed, then I went on-line and did a search and found BC's Twitter feed, it's what really got the ball rolling on the socials.  

 

I had a pretty good feeling when I saw the video that it would clearly show Reed was a lying cheater when I saw it.  Then I watched it...and re-watched it.  From a objective point of view I saw no wrong doing.  I then came to GolfWRX and began posting more than I have in a long while because I am just fed up with how the world treats people in the media.  I've been guilty of it in the past, but it's just no longer in my interest to see people drug through the mud and put on trial in the court of public opinion.  

I have even defended Brandel on here before, but no longer.  He is part of the problem, not the sanctimonious solution he likes to think he is.  Yes he has quite of big voice in the world of golf, not the world in general but the small world wide golf community.  Brandel is the biggest voice on a TV channel that is the only one to my knowledge, solely dedicated to the game of golf.  

[Brass_Bullseye]

39 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

I don't care if you like Reed or not.  That said, we as mature adults capable of critical reasoning must use our intelligence to measure perspective.  First, the Rules official said Reed broke NO rules.  There are no current dots to connect with other dots to make some picture that can only lead to supposition.  Based on the rule's authority, Reed and Rory did NOT break the rules.  Hence, character should NOT be a discussion, unless someone has an unhealthy bias that is distorting their ability to reason.

 

Currently, Reed is ranked 10th, last year 6th.  Though he hasn't reached the top five, it's pretty damn good, even better than most, to have reached 6th and taken a Green Jacket. Then there's this: Patrick Reed has spent a total of 63 weeks ranked in the top 10. His longest stretch was 22 consecutive weeks between February 24, 2020, and October 19, 2020. 

 

If you ever subscribed to motivational speaker "Tony Robbins" you'd have heard him talk about the frame of mind needed to accomplish great goals.  I am not talking about hitting the goal ball, more like seeking a 60s subpar score when others believe they can't, so you can't.  Stating with where you see yourself in one year, five years, ten years, etc.  They must be specific goals too.  You must see yourself reach each goal and living each goal.  A person that wants to accomplish a great goal can't be afraid of telling others what his goals are and do what's necessary, within his moral code to reach those goals.  I'd say Reed has more than lived up to his proclamation or goal and still can reach the top five.  I am a product of that thinking in business and golf, too.  One man's 2cents.

 

 

For me, character is always part of the discussion.  Reed has displayed time and again that it's just not a priority for him.  He's an undeniably great player, thrives on pressure, loves being the heel, and hardly ever wilts under the spotlight.  Unfortunately he's also an obnoxious jackass.  I just don't find that entertaining in the least.  There's too many kids out there with talent AND class to entertain me.   

[MUNIGRIT]

I love Reeds game but don't care for him much but I do admire how he is who he is regardless of what others think. I am not a fan of Justine at all though. Complete whack job.

[Hawkeye77]

1 hour ago, 2bGood said:

I don't think TGC controlled the narrative. WRX was a blaze the minute it occurred as was social media etc. they had not choice but to cover it and if CBS did not address it their broadcast they we be doing a disservice to the people who tuned in to see just that. 

 

 

Have to disagree with that.  The broadcast team on Saturday and totally overboard on Sunday (though completely depressed) was all over it and couldn't stop talking about it.  Golf Channel --- Rich and Brandel ran with it as quickly as they could (nothing to do with wrx or social media) -- Brandel was going all sorts of different directions and everybody was piling on.  I didn't see them as reporting a story, they were the story and doing a ton of editorializing.

[snagy2000]

3 hours ago, the bishop said:

And speaking of the hunters did anybody else catch the irony of Lanto Griffin commenting on how the whole thing "kind of pisses us off" when we were reminded several times on the broadcast of his continuing mentoring relationship with Vijay Singh, Mr. Persona non Grata of the Asian Tour? https://www.golfcompendium.com/2019/04/vijay-singh-cheating-accusation.html (edit - he is apparently no longer banned from the Asian Tour)

 

And one other thing.  In this NBC Rotoworld article where Will Gray reports on PointsBet Sportsbook refunding bets for those who bet on someone other than Reed, there's this disclaimer at the bottom, "PointsBet is our Official Sports Betting Partner, and we may receive compensation if you place a bet on PointsBet for the first time after clicking our links."  So you can see why NBC/GolfChannel might have such hard on for this guy.  https://www.rotoworld.com/article/odds-and-ends/book-refunds-golf-bets-after-reed-rules-snafu

Isn't that convenient? I'm sure Brandle had nothing to say about that in his tweet about refunding bets.

[dlygrisse]

3 minutes ago, snagy2000 said:

Isn't that convenient? I'm sure Brandle had nothing to say about that in his tweet about refunding bets.

Hmmm... I wonder if Brandel has a connection with that sports book?  Did he place a wager?  Does he have some ownership, or does he endorse them?  Something is very suspicious here?  

[Pepperturbo]

22 hours ago, NoCalHack said:

Yeah it was a 5 iron I think.  But it was sky high and came straight down.

 

 

The fact of the matter is that reputation matters here, unfortunately.  Rory once gave himself a worse lie out of fairness.  Reed was accused of cheating in college qualifiers and had that incident in the bunker.

 

The way he approached it was highly suspicious.    To ask if it bounced before he got to his ball.  The video showing a soft bounce prior to landing.  The way he moved it.  The way he asked for the official after he moved it.  

 

To me, if you asked me to bet my own money on what happened, I bet that his ball wasn't embedded and he knowingly cheated.  Sorry.  If you want to accuse me of being biased based on the past, yeah.  I am.  But everyone gets judged on their past actions.  Fact of life.

 

 

 

 

LOL Yes, reputation matters, but there has NOT been any actual FACTS to prove the constant media regurgitation regarding Reed.  Nance kept implying to the point of unfounded accusations.  Like all the social media blabber about Dustin Johnson doing a slew of the wife's of touring pros'.  Yet nobody is regurgitating that baloney.  Or how Rory treated his previous manager that supposedly was like a family member when he switched mgt companies - those reflect the lack of character too.

 

Reading that post is like reading a top secret redacted dossier and connecting unredacted words to determine what the dossier says about so-and-so. 🤣 Agree, everyone is judged on their past, except people on this board don't know any of the victims nor were any of the posters there to see first hand, yet judge and talk as if...  Like I said, I don't care if you like Reed or not.  Just sayin...

Edited February 3, 2021 by Pepperturbo

[dlygrisse]

3 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

LOL Yes, reputation matters, but there has NOT been any actual FACTS to prove the constant media regurgitation regarding Reed.  Nance kept implying to the point of unfounded accusations.  Like all the social media blabber about Dustin Johnson doing a slew of the wife's of touring pros'.  Yet nobody is regurgitating that baloney.  Or how Rory treated his previous manager that supposedly was like a family member when he switched mgt companies - those reflect the lack of character too.

 

Reading that post is like reading a top secret redacted dossier and connected unredacted words to determine what the dossier says about so-and-so. 🤣 Agree, everyone is judged on their past, except people on this board don't know any of the victims nor were any of the posters there to see first hand, yet that judge and talk as if...  Like I said, I don't care if you like Reed or not.  Just sayin...

"Don't believe everything you read on the internet."   -Abraham Lincoln.  

[Brass_Bullseye]

2 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

Like I said, I don't care if you like Reed or not.  Just sayin...

You say that a lot.

 

[Pepperturbo]

13 minutes ago, Brass_Bullseye said:

For me, character is always part of the discussion.  Reed has displayed time and again that it's just not a priority for him.  He's an undeniably great player, thrives on pressure, loves being the heel, and hardly ever wilts under the spotlight.  Unfortunately he's also an obnoxious jackass.  I just don't find that entertaining in the least.  There's too many kids out there with talent AND class to entertain me.   

That's where we disagree.  Character is made part of the discussion, so some people feel better about themselves, while not knowing the people involved, or what it's like to play golf under similar circumstances.  Tour players are not perfect but all of them should be treated equality, yet as exampled by Faldo's words, almost excusing Rory, that's not the case. 

 

Character should NOT be part of any discussion regarding rules infraction unless someone was breaking the rules every other week like a sandbagger and everybody knows it.  Golfers make mistakes on the golf course and most of them are not purposely trying to cheat the field.  I agree, there are plenty of kids out there that may be entertaining but as they progress they too will make mistakes.  Have a good week.

[Tdsjfb]

5 minutes ago, dlygrisse said:

"Don't believe everything you read on the internet."   -Abraham Lincoln.  

Wasn't that a John Wilkes Booth quote?

[Pepperturbo]

18 minutes ago, Brass_Bullseye said:

You say that a lot.

 

It's my right to say it as many times as I chose.  I fought for freedom of speech, and yours as well.  That means I put my azz on the line for more than talk.  Maybe the difference is I haven't made assumptions about you.

Edited February 2, 2021 by Pepperturbo

[Dan33185]

46 minutes ago, t4t3r said:

Exactly. For the 2021 season. It’s February. 
 

in 2020 he was top 15 I think and 2019 he was top 50. Good? Yes. Great? Maybe even great. But certainly not the best on tour.

The 2020-2021 season started in September though, they are about 5 months into the season, more than enough time for any stats to be considered legitimate.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

55 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

I don't care if you like Reed or not.  That said, we as mature adults capable of critical reasoning must use our intelligence to measure perspective.  First, the Rules official said Reed broke NO rules.  There are no current dots to connect with other dots to make some picture that can only lead to supposition.  Based on the rule's authority, Reed and Rory did NOT break the rules.  Hence, character should NOT be a discussion, unless someone has an unhealthy bias that is distorting their ability to reason.  I agree and it's why I changed my position on the issue  about The Farmers. I wish others were evolved enough to admit when they were incorrect as they gather more info.  Sadly too many view the admission of being wrong and evolution of our opinions as a weakness.  Whereas I believe  this is an honorable trait that requires someone to be more evolved and intelligent. 

 

Currently, Reed is ranked 10th, last year 6th.  Though he hasn't reached the top five, it's pretty damn good, even better than most, to have reached 6th and taken a Green Jacket. Then there's this: Patrick Reed has spent a total of 63 weeks ranked in the top 10. His longest stretch was 22 consecutive weeks between February 24, 2020, and October 19, 2020.  No doubt he's been hot for about a year. He made the top 5 statement in 2014 but he spend most the time in the top 20 before his current hot streak of top 10 (at least in my quick view of the OWGR tables). Very impressive but I don't like blowhards. He just should have let his game speak.

 

If you ever subscribed to motivational speaker "Tony Robbins" you'd have heard him talk about the frame of mind needed to accomplish great goals.  I am not talking about hitting the goal ball, more like seeking a 60s subpar score when others believe they can't, so you can't.  Stating with where you see yourself in one year, five years, ten years, etc.  They must be specific goals too.  You must see yourself reach each goal and living each goal.  A person that wants to accomplish a great goal can't be afraid of telling others what his goals are and do what's necessary, within his moral code to reach those goals.  I'd say Reed has more than lived up to his proclamation or goal and still can reach the top five.  I am a product of that thinking in business and golf, too.  One man's 2cents.  Absolutely imagery and goal setting is important for success.  But some things you keep to yourself or those that care about helping you get there.

 

The Farmers issue, as unfair as I believe he's being treated, is rooted from the deep lack of trust he's mostly earned by his own volition. This is why superb personal integrity is vital capital to ones worth. 

 

 

See response in line above.

[t4t3r]

12 minutes ago, Dan33185 said:

The 2020-2021 season started in September though, they are about 5 months into the season, more than enough time for any stats to be considered legitimate.

 

Again, look at rounds. He has 22 rounds in SG:P and 16 measured (whatever that means). That's four or potentially five tournaments. The average number of rounds for most seasons in this category is at least 50 and close to 90 for a lot of players. He's not even half-way to the minimum number - there is so much more golf to be played so let's see where he shakes out. A 25-40% sample size is hardly large enough.

 

I'm not saying he's not a great nor a clutch putter. He's just not the the BEST putter on tour.

Edited February 2, 2021 by t4t3r

[Brass_Bullseye]

20 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

It's my right to say it as many times as I chose.  I fought for freedom of speech, and yours as well.  That means I put my azz on the line for more than talk.  Maybe the difference is I haven't made assumptions about you.

For somebody that doesn't care what I think you sure seem pretty wrapped around the axle about it...

[jah7838]

7 hours ago, AndyOCGolfer said:

 

Family: Agree with you. Families are complicated. 

Georgia: Sets the precedence for him to be judged. 

Short Game: His short game is epic.

Ignoring things: Yup, agree, he had all this chatter around him and managed the W.

Negative comments: Not posting negative comments. This was just my opinion. But yeah, too much negativity all around. 

Patrick Reed: Has no integrity (Georgia, Hero and Farmers - 3 strikes you are out), his golf skills mean nothing to me due to that. 

Quote "Integrity requires players to adhere to a set of standards upon which their behavior will be judged---a sense of personal honesty. Players who live with integrity know the rules of golf and embrace the etiquette of the game. They hold relationships in high regard and maintain their composure even when they think no one is looking." 

 

 

I wasn’t speaking about you specifically with the negative comments. That was just a statement in general as to what I see on social media. 
 

I completely understand your reasoning for not liking Reed. His reputation at this point is earned at this point, and I get why people will not give him the same benefit of doubt that they will give a guy like Rory. 
 

I’m not saying he’s my favorite golfer, but I like watching players who play great golf the way he does. 

[naylor]

8 hours ago, dlygrisse said:

The problem I have with all of this is that the TV network and TGC controlled the narrative and are the ones who spun it out of control .  The Twitter storm that night, the coverage on TGC, the opening dialogue when they came on air and the continuous narrative throughout the telecast.  Finally the post game interview it was the question they most wanted to ask Reed after he won and everyone else in the field.   

 

Granted, they did show the entire scenario, they did show Rory's scenario, but then they just piled on Reed and gave Rory a 100% pass because Reed is their bogey man.  The entire thing was completely disgraceful.  I lost complete respect for these idiots.  Faldo, Chamblee, Nantz, Dottie.   Gannon didn't seem to pile on as much, but I may have dozed off and missed it.  It was a blatant smear campaign from my perspective.  

NBC owns the golf channel.

 

That is all.

[bscinstnct]

5 hours ago, Brass_Bullseye said:

For me, character is always part of the discussion.  Reed has displayed time and again that it's just not a priority for him.  He's an undeniably great player, thrives on pressure, loves being the heel, and hardly ever wilts under the spotlight.  Unfortunately he's also an obnoxious jackass.  I just don't find that entertaining in the least.  There's too many kids out there with talent AND class to entertain me.   

 

Where is the character in judging Reed, in this specific instance, differently than Rory or all of of other players who did the exact same thing? 

 

This prejudice contradicts the essence of justice ; )

 

 

 

 

[2bGood]

5 hours ago, Hawkeye77 said:

Have to disagree with that.  The broadcast team on Saturday and totally overboard on Sunday (though completely depressed) was all over it and couldn't stop talking about it.  Golf Channel --- Rich and Brandel ran with it as quickly as they could (nothing to do with wrx or social media) -- Brandel was going all sorts of different directions and everybody was piling on.  I didn't see them as reporting a story, they were the story and doing a ton of editorializing.

 

Technically I believe Brandel is not a reporter, but rather commentators so his job is not to report with objectivity but rather provide their expert opinion on the story. 

 

Regardless I can't see blaming Brandel for this and I don't think it is fair hang him out to dry publicly like this 😉

 

4 hours ago, Pepperturbo said:

That's where we disagree.  Character is made part of the discussion, so some people feel better about themselves, while not knowing the people involved, or what it's like to play golf under similar circumstances.  Tour players are not perfect but all of them should be treated equality, yet as exampled by Faldo's words, almost excusing Rory, that's not the case. 

 

Character should NOT be part of any discussion regarding rules infraction unless someone was breaking the rules every other week like a sandbagger and everybody knows it.  Golfers make mistakes on the golf course and most of them are not purposely trying to cheat the field.  I agree, there are plenty of kids out there that may be entertaining but as they progress they too will make mistakes.  Have a good week.

 That not the way I watch sports. Treating all the players equally seems like a lame way to be a fan. Like any sport, we will have teams/player we root for and against. 

[dlygrisse]

5 minutes ago, 2bGood said:

 

Technically I believe Brandel is not a reporter, but rather commentators so his job is not to report with objectivity but rather provide their expert opinion on the story. 

 

Regardless I can't see blaming Brandel for this and I don't think it is fair hang him out to dry publicly like this 😉

 

 That not the way I watch sports. Treating all the players equally seems like a lame way to be a fan. Like any sport, we will have teams/player we root for and against. 

I think he means treated by the rules officials equally. I mean everyone who watches sports has favorites. 

[2bGood]

13 minutes ago, dlygrisse said:

I think he means treated by the rules officials equally. I mean everyone who watches sports has favorites. 

If that is the case, I can't agree more. The rules do allow for officials take into account behaviour/actions of a player earlier in event, but not action taken outside of that event. 

[Golfrnut]

Well, we’ll see how long Brandel drags his emotions out.  Not like they don’t have history. Only been a year since he was last threatened with a C&D over defamation of character. 

[Hawkeye77]

I think if Brandel can assault players’ characters publicly and with no real opportunity for rebuttal he can handle being criticized on here. He was over the top on Saturday, made up another rules violation, and pretty much bulldozed Lerner. He’s done the same several times regarding Tiger whether rules or his famous he’ll never win again because of his “broken mind”, lol. He literally “made his bones” at GC starting in 2009 by being the loudest and harshest critic of Tiger in the golf world and accused Tiger of cheating more than once. And had to walk it back with a pretty public apology after going too far. 
 

I listened to GC at lunch today - it was all about no rules being violated and yep, walking back the little feeding frenzy from the weekend. Too little, too late but a very decided difference. 
 

GC hyped this for everything it could get out of it and only the Rory situation coming up led to some of those who had gone too far having to actually think about it.  
 

But, just like with Reed, I’d probably enjoy 18 holes with Brandel.