Slow Play or Slow Player

[Naptime]

Slow play is a common topic.  In your experience, is slow play generally caused by one slow guy in a group, or is it usually a group of slow guys?  In either of my usual foursomes it's one guy (different guy in each group) who slows our foursome.  Usual rationale is looking for a lost ball or wanting to hit another "for fun."  I see plenty of bad players (me included) who nonetheless play quickly.

[jordan2240]

Definitely most often one or two guys that simply play slow.  Had this happen in our group yesterday where we got too far behind the group in front of us.  We basically had two slow guys, but one was really playing slow - but that guy is in his early 90s, so we gave him a pass.

 

I used to be in a league with a couple of habitually slow players, one of whom I was always getting paired with.  Because of him, we were always the last group in for the evening, often barely beating darkness.

[Augster]

Slow player. Sadly, other players in a group with the slow player also slow down so they aren’t constantly waiting. 
 

I know from experience, no matter how fast the other 3 players play, the group will only move as fast as the slowpoke. It’s human nature to not want to wait every single shot, so the other players slow down. They aren’t going anywhere without leaving the slowpoke, so why not?

 

In a perfect world, the other 3 players would keep playing ahead of the slow poke and constantly berate them for their slow play. Alas, people don’t like confrontation, and this approach is seen as “bullying” which isn’t acceptable in this version of society currently. 
 

Given all of the above, since one cannot speed up a slow poke, and one cannot bully the slow poke into speeding up, players are left with only a few options. Leave the group and play ahead, play extra quickly to hope the slow poke catches on and speeds up their play (they won’t), or slow down a little so the player doesn’t have to wait, or waits less, every single shot. 
 

I see this every single morning in the summer. We generally have 3 groups that go out at 9am. Nobody on the course ahead of us most days. The first group plays in 3:10. The second group plays in 3:20. The 3rd group, with the slow poke, plays in 4 to 4:10. 
 

We’ve repeatedly told the guy he’s slow. Too slow. He still gets mad that nobody will let him play in the first or second group. 
 

A leopard can’t change its spots. A Tiger can’t change its stripes. A slow player can’t speed up. 3 truths. 

[596]

We have one slow player in our 4some.  Have been playing together for years. It's not his scores, which are normally mid to upper 80s.  He does everything slowly and methodically. It's quite painful watching him play. 

 

In a lot of cases at least 2 of us are at the green before he hits his approach.  Many times we are off the green headed to the next tee before he's done putting. He is super slow. We are always the last group out in our game because everyone else refuses to play behind him. 

 

I always walk and the other 3 ride carts. We have him take his cart alone.  

[Pepperturbo]

Here in SoCA, the tee sheets are typically full, so PoP depends on the difficulty of the course.  The more difficult the course the more likely the field encounters slow play.  It's a boring topic without a solution.  I know if a person isn't a 10 index or lower and used to playing in 4hrs or less, he can't play... LOL  That's as stupid as slow play is....

 

Last weekend the course was difficult, lots of uneven lies and elevation changes for mid-high caps and beginner golfers.  Our foursome had no problems but the foursome in front and behind of us struggled a lot.  We could tell the group in front was all over the place, losing balls, very seldom in the fairway.  Play lasted 5+ hrs, thank goodness for beautiful surroundings, great company, 2 cigars and patience, that's really what makes a great day.

Edited April 4, 2023 by Pepperturbo

[Warrior42111]

I would say it's a combination. Usually it's a player or two who slow it down a bit for the group. I know most of my friends myself included play ready golf, but when we encounter a slow player we might go up and hit to see if they get the message but if not, we'll slow down as well as to not play a game of hurry up and wait. Obviously in an average to heavy played course stay on the group in front, but at the same time I'm not going to play faster than comfort because some rabbit in front is going for a sub 3 hr round.

Also IMO slow play is so subjective. anything over 330 is slow for some while others anything over 4, others 430.

 

[ArtMBgolf]

I would say it only takes 1 slow player to be a 5 hour round.   
If it's a 6 hour round, the group causing that probably has 
multiple slow players.     

[Greenie]

On 4/4/2023 at 3:52 PM, Augster said:

Slow player. Sadly, other players in a group with the slow player also slow down so they aren’t constantly waiting. 
 

I know from experience, no matter how fast the other 3 players play, the group will only move as fast as the slowpoke. It’s human nature to not want to wait every single shot, so the other players slow down. They aren’t going anywhere without leaving the slowpoke, so why not?

 

In a perfect world, the other 3 players would keep playing ahead of the slow poke and constantly berate them for their slow play. Alas, people don’t like confrontation, and this approach is seen as “bullying” which isn’t acceptable in this version of society currently. 
 

Given all of the above, since one cannot speed up a slow poke, and one cannot bully the slow poke into speeding up, players are left with only a few options. Leave the group and play ahead, play extra quickly to hope the slow poke catches on and speeds up their play (they won’t), or slow down a little so the player doesn’t have to wait, or waits less, every single shot. 
 

I see this every single morning in the summer. We generally have 3 groups that go out at 9am. Nobody on the course ahead of us most days. The first group plays in 3:10. The second group plays in 3:20. The 3rd group, with the slow poke, plays in 4 to 4:10. 
 

We’ve repeatedly told the guy he’s slow. Too slow. He still gets mad that nobody will let him play in the first or second group. 
 

A leopard can’t change its spots. A Tiger can’t change its stripes. A slow player can’t speed up. 3 truths. 

 

I'm still one of those that bullies the slow poke. I've played with the same guys for years. Over the years we have discussed where we could improve to be more efficient. We don't have many issues anymore but if someone is doing something to slow things down it is certainly pointed out. We keep each other in check. 

 

Over the years we have had some slow players. A slow poke is going to be a slow poke and most don't believe they are slow. Bullying doesn't work with these type of people so eventually they figure it out when they aren't getting the call to play. I agree if you can't get them to speed up the whole group slows down.

 

It  usually doesn't take long for the group of people I play with to complain they don't want to be paired up with the slow poke. The person you are referring to in your post wouldn't stay in our group long unless three players didn't mind playing with them. They would definitely be the last group out. 

 

The most difficult issue is when a person is paired up with us that is slow. I wouldn't bully them if they were slow. It's not worth it because I don't plan on playing with them again. We all say the same thing to the person. We play ready golf. Some people get it some don't. We usually try to maintain our usual pace but it is hard to with some people. We play ready golf is said multiple times to try and get the message across.

 

 

[RSinSG]

Most of the time it’s the player, but if a course has drivable par 4’s everyone thinks they’re capable of carrying the ball 270. In reality on their best day they probably roll out to 280 very infrequently. Nothing like getting to a 285 par 4 and finding 3 groups on the hole.  Hard par 3’s also can cause bottlenecks.

[Hateto3Putt]

7 hours ago, Greenie said:

Over the years we have had some slow players. A slow poke is going to be a slow poke and ̷m̷o̷s̷t̷ ̷d̷o̷n̷'̷t̷ NONE OF THEM believe they are slow.

Fixed that for you.

Edited April 6, 2023 by Hateto3Putt

[TerpFangolfer]

I have 2 different answers for different circumstances: 

 

1. Competition- find that is generally 1 player, primarily because organizers know the slow pokes and try to keep them apart.

 

2. Everyday/Normal play - this can often be group-based, esp some of the types we all know. For example, the "party" group, or not serious about golf groups...

[larrybud]

Most "slow play" is course setup: Tee times too close together being the biggest to blame. Dead giveaway is when you have a 10am tee time and the first tee is already behind. If there are no gaps between groups, how can you blame any player? There's nowhere to go. It's like blaming a slow driver for a traffic jam on the freeway when everybody is bumper to bumper. 2nd would be rough grown too high where players have difficulty finding a ball just off the fairway. Others are more difficult to fix, like poor course design: blind landing areas, and hazards/long grass on the inside corner of doglegs. Combine those two and the search is always on.

 

Tee times too close together ripple through the entire field when one group does have a "slow down". We ALL have slow downs. Looking for a ball for a couple of minutes is all it takes when groups are already bumper to bumper. So why does this happen? Because there's no buffer between groups to absorb the slow down. 

 

Now, I'm first to admit there are slow players, and must be dealt with, but with a full tee sheet with bumper to bumper groups while on the course, it's impossible to actually identify the slow players and slow groups, because everybody is always waiting.

[rogolf]

19 minutes ago, larrybud said:

Most "slow play" is course setup: Tee times too close together being the biggest to blame. Dead giveaway is when you have a 10am tee time and the first tee is already behind. If there are no gaps between groups, how can you blame any player? There's nowhere to go. It's like blaming a slow driver for a traffic jam on the freeway when everybody is bumper to bumper. 2nd would be rough grown too high where players have difficulty finding a ball just off the fairway. Others are more difficult to fix, like poor course design: blind landing areas, and hazards/long grass on the inside corner of doglegs. Combine those two and the search is always on.

 

Tee times too close together ripple through the entire field when one group does have a "slow down". We ALL have slow downs. Looking for a ball for a couple of minutes is all it takes when groups are already bumper to bumper. So why does this happen? Because there's no buffer between groups to absorb the slow down. 

 

Now, I'm first to admit there are slow players, and must be dealt with, but with a full tee sheet with bumper to bumper groups while on the course, it's impossible to actually identify the slow players and slow groups, because everybody is always waiting.

Those are all course-specific issues. Avoid them and find other courses to play!

[naval2006]

Course design and setting are key to pace of play in general. But slow players are a tough breed per se. True you feel hopeless when you try to speed them up. This is endemic these days. New generations watch tv golf and they see pros taking ages checking their books, the caddie’s book, crosschecking info and discussing what club for minutes. And the endless pre-shot routine.  The cherry on the top: the ball aligning on the green, OMG. 5 hours two guys who shoot 60’s or low 70’s?  Complete insane. And they set the example presently. 
 

Sorry for my rant. 

[McMunch]

I'd also like to see Rangers doing their jobs better.

As a muni guy, most of the Rangers I see rarely leave the general vicinity of the Pro Shop. If you do see one out on the course its a rarity and rarer still is one that is telling groups to pick up the pace....What would help is a clear statement by the course for POP and what the expectation is.... They do this in Scotland at a lot of courses.

Something like "A round should be approx. XX hours to play and you are expected to keep up. If a Ranger asks you to speed up you must do so. If not- you may be held at the next tee for the group(s) behind to play through..."

 

[SNIPERBBB]

In my experience, a group of fast players can speed up a slow player, especially if you are driving the cart. Or if one of you walks, put the slow player by himself or as the passenger. 

[Tommy L]

2 hours ago, McMunch said:

I'd also like to see Rangers doing their jobs better.

As a muni guy, most of the Rangers I see rarely leave the general vicinity of the Pro Shop. If you do see one out on the course its a rarity and rarer still is one that is telling groups to pick up the pace....What would help is a clear statement by the course for POP and what the expectation is.... They do this in Scotland at a lot of courses.

Something like "A round should be approx. XX hours to play and you are expected to keep up. If a Ranger asks you to speed up you must do so. If not- you may be held at the next tee for the group(s) behind to play through..."

 

This is exactly right. If Marshalls / Rangers have the authority to pull a group up to pace of play, then no excuses. Golf course layouts have their slow holes. But generally people lack of awareness is the culprit. We  have a course that has clocks at several tees with your tee off time. You know your slow when it's open in  front of your group and behind the clock  

[Naptime]

30 years ago played a course in the Detroit area where the rangers acted like forecaddies on some holes.  Much better than searching for balls from blind tee shots.  And when they would say speed up they were't some random strangers since you'd had positive interactions with them already.

[bcjim]

Rangers have gotten less and less authoritarian over the years.  When I was a teenager,  they were to be feared.  I recall getting lectured all the time by those old coots.

 

  By the Tiger era, it was open warfare and they lost.  It was "their" course and they didn't want to "grow the game" so they were rude, condescending,  and at times,  off the rails. I was already used to these clowns but some of the new golfers weren't inclined to take sh*t from an old white guy every time they played.  So,  complaints and conflicts reached a point where Rangers were neutered.  And to this day,  they ride around and do nothing and that's if they ride around at all. 

[rogolf]

1 hour ago, bcjim said:

Rangers have gotten less and less authoritarian over the years.  When I was a teenager,  they were to be feared.  I recall getting lectured all the time by those old coots.

 

  By the Tiger era, it was open warfare and they lost.  It was "their" course and they didn't want to "grow the game" so they were rude, condescending,  and at times,  off the rails. I was already used to these clowns but some of the new golfers weren't inclined to take sh*t from an old white guy every time they played.  So,  complaints and conflicts reached a point where Rangers were neutered.  And to this day,  they ride around and do nothing and that's if they ride around at all. 

Herding cats is a thankless job!

[PhilsFanDrew]

The biggest culprits I see are not playing ready golf beyond the tee shots, wasted time looking for clearly lost balls, and improper use of carts.   Instead of dropping their mate who is away at their ball with the yardage and club(s) and driving off to their ball to get ready to play their shot, they sit and wait for them to hit the shot and then drive off and player B wait for his buddy to hit.  A public gun range near me makes every first time shooter at that range watch an 8 minute safety video and sign before they let them on the range.  I feel like public golf courses should have a similar video with improving pace of play before someone new to the course tees off. 

[MisterT]

On 4/11/2023 at 10:27 AM, PhilsFanDrew said:

The biggest culprits I see are not playing ready golf beyond the tee shots, wasted time looking for clearly lost balls, and improper use of carts.   Instead of dropping their mate who is away at their ball with the yardage and club(s) and driving off to their ball to get ready to play their shot, they sit and wait for them to hit the shot and then drive off and player B wait for his buddy to hit.  A public gun range near me makes every first time shooter at that range watch an 8 minute safety video and sign before they let them on the range.  I feel like public golf courses should have a similar video with improving pace of play before someone new to the course tees off. 

I like your suggested approach as we have one (or more) in our group like the one described above.

[PhilsFanDrew]

5 hours ago, MisterT said:

I like your suggested approach as we have one (or more) in our group like the one described above.

 

Minimum per twosome it adds at least a minute and a half to a hole = 27 minutes over 18.  If a foursome is playing and both carts are doing it you are talking about nearly an extra hour wasted.

Edited April 13, 2023 by PhilsFanDrew

[Pepperturbo]

Played a short course recently, got paired with two nice guys.  When the group in front hit their balls into the green and started walking, I teed off using 4i down the middle 200+ yards.  Two others hit, only one guy wanted to wait for the group on the green to clear the green.  He thought he could carry 285+ yards during a damp morning. 

 

He didn't even get close, no less, his ball ended up in a parallel fairway, maybe 250; then he flew the green, chipped back over the green, chipped down to near the pin, and missed the putt.  All while the rest of us stood and watched and others in the fairway waited for us to clear the green.  It was that way on nearly every Par 4 hole.  ONE man with sh**y judgment was causing slow PoP.  What's tragic, he was totally unaware how his piss poor judgment affected others, worse, he didn't seem to care; he had issues.  That kind of STUPID can't be fixed.  Imagine how the rest of his life goes.

Edited April 13, 2023 by Pepperturbo

[Bonneville85308]

On 4/10/2023 at 8:55 AM, SNIPERBBB said:

In my experience, a group of fast players can speed up a slow player, especially if you are driving the cart. Or if one of you walks, put the slow player by himself or as the passenger. 

 

Agreed. Once the slow player gets left behind in the rough looking for his obviously lost ball while the rest of the group is putting out on the green or walking off to the next tee, they sometimes eventually get the hint. Do not let the slow player drive the cart if you can help it.

Edited April 14, 2023 by Bonneville85308

[ChipNRun]

Home course: Higher HDCP players losing balls on certain holes create bottlenecks. Our group plays ready golf, so I will roll out after our tee shots and quickly hit my approach. Then, I will go ahead 50 yards to top of rise so I can get a clear view of where other players' balls land.

 

On several of our holes, approaches which fly over the hill can be difficult to find if they leave the fairway.

 

Also, someone in group needs to clean up after MR. DRIFTY who always leaves his wedge beside the last putting green.

[755i]

I don't mind waiting a few times a round, but when its every shot or every hole, it takes the enjoyment out of it for me. After picking the game up again, I refuse to play the local course I grew up playing because 2.5 - 3 hour 9's are the norm unless you are out of the gate early. And no one does anything about it ever. Nice course too.

 

 

[755i]

On 4/13/2023 at 2:15 PM, Pepperturbo said:

Played a short course recently, got paired with two nice guys.  When the group in front hit their balls into the green and started walking, I teed off using 4i down the middle 200+ yards.  Two others hit, only one guy wanted to wait for the group on the green to clear the green.  He thought he could carry 285+ yards during a damp morning. 

 

He didn't even get close, no less, his ball ended up in a parallel fairway, maybe 250; then he flew the green, chipped back over the green, chipped down to near the pin, and missed the putt.  All while the rest of us stood and watched and others in the fairway waited for us to clear the green.  It was that way on nearly every Par 4 hole.  ONE man with sh**y judgment was causing slow PoP.  What's tragic, he was totally unaware how his piss poor judgment affected others, worse, he didn't seem to care; he had issues.  That kind of STUPID can't be fixed.  Imagine how the rest of his life goes.

There is a short quirky "fill in" par 4 at the course I play often, I hit 3w and have reached multiple times.  I feel weird playing with a group who may not be abel to reach and waiting because I know when I do, it's going to go to hell for me. I always am fighting myself as to just hit a 3i so as not to seem boastful. 

[Pepperturbo]

4 hours ago, 755i said:

There is a short quirky "fill in" par 4 at the course I play often, I hit 3w and have reached multiple times.  I feel weird playing with a group who may not be abel to reach and waiting because I know when I do, it's going to go to hell for me. I always am fighting myself as to just hit a 3i so as not to seem boastful. 

If you can consistently reach a short par 4 using 3 wood, outstanding.  I would ask why play a short course, yet make club decisions as though you're playing a longer course?  Get the most out of the club choice experience.  Just a thought, rethink the challenge and the benefit of hitting irons only on a short course.

 

I could use driver and dam near reach some of the short Par 4 greens on some short courses, but see NO reason for that choice.  I am not playing there in hopes of a new course record.  Short courses attract mostly high-caps and beginners, so I have to find a way to make it interesting for me and not make others feel bad or inferior and deal with PoP.

 

IMO short courses are set up for mostly iron play, mini big courses.  Every hole they hit driver, I hit 4i or 2i to the fairway middle and that spends wait time for them to reach their ball and hit, then I hit a short iron in.  I treat it as iron practice, and challenge myself to shoot par or under, which I've done many times.   My score is more important than how I get to the green.  Course, lots of people ask when I don't use driver, when my 4i is equal to their 3wd or driver.  Some weird people assume, for some undetermined reason, I can't hit driver...go figure.  LOL I just say I am practicing with my irons, which is true.

 

 

Edited April 20, 2023 by Pepperturbo

[betarhoalphadelta]

On 4/13/2023 at 11:15 AM, Pepperturbo said:

Played a short course recently, got paired with two nice guys.  When the group in front hit their balls into the green and started walking, I teed off using 4i down the middle 200+ yards.  Two others hit, only one guy wanted to wait for the group on the green to clear the green.  He thought he could carry 285+ yards during a damp morning. 

 

He didn't even get close, no less, his ball ended up in a parallel fairway, maybe 250; then he flew the green, chipped back over the green, chipped down to near the pin, and missed the putt.  All while the rest of us stood and watched and others in the fairway waited for us to clear the green.  It was that way on nearly every Par 4 hole.  ONE man with sh**y judgment was causing slow PoP.  What's tragic, he was totally unaware how his piss poor judgment affected others, worse, he didn't seem to care; he had issues.  That kind of STUPID can't be fixed.  Imagine how the rest of his life goes.

 

Hanging out in my neck of the woods at Oso Creek again? 😉

 

One question about your experience. If it was that way on "nearly every par 4 hole", then that means that you weren't falling behind the group in front of you. And if so, then it's not a slow play issue. 

 

The hard part about being a high-cap is that I know how far I can carry the ball when I catch one "off the screws" so to speak--although I must be showing my age thinking clubfaces have screws lol. But I don't want to hit into anyone, and ESPECIALLY don't want to actually hurt anyone, so despite the fact that I don't hit that distance regularly, I know I'm capable. Because it's invariably the situation where if you wait for the area to clear, you're gonna screw up the shot, but if you hit thinking "no way I'll get there", you hit one dead off the sweet spot. 

 

I played at Oso recently with my son. On the first tee it was just the two of us, nobody else showed up while the fairway was clear, so we teed off and played the first hole as a twosome. We cleared off the green, and were waiting for the group on 2 to finish teeing off, and the guy in the group behind us hit one pin-high to the right on 1. Realized on the third tee that they were the twosome we were supposed to have been with so formed a foursome, and I didn't see him hit another drive remotely close to that distance the rest of the round. But if he had hit that shot on #1 while my son and I were still on the green putting out, there might have been some words...