Do golfers really understand the trade-off when playing jacked irons?

[boggyman]

4 minutes ago, bekgolf said:

 

How old are you?

 

Lol.

Why🤣🤣🤣 age it’s just a number,but for the record, 54! I was born in the wrong era for sure. @Pepperturbocan attest it’s just a number I bet!

[bekgolf]

Just now, boggyman said:

Why🤣🤣🤣 age it’s just a number,but for the record, 54! I was born in the wrong era for sure. @Pepperturbocan attest it’s just a number I bet!

 

LOL.  You are younger than I am but my 5 iron is a sweet 23*!

[boggyman]

9 minutes ago, bekgolf said:

 

LOL.  You are younger than I am but my 5 iron is a sweet 23*!

Awesome! 23* is my 3 iron! Try explaining that one to guys in your group🤣🤣🤣when they ask ,”what was that”? 😳 I’ve been down the strong loft road a few times but ALWAYS revert back! 12 clubs and I’m set, leaves 2 open options IF I want them. Whatever it takes, to each their own. 

Edited May 28, 2023 by boggyman

[realmfg]

Lol, you both have a 23* club... Just a different number the company decided to stamp on it.  What's the back and forth about.

Edited May 28, 2023 by realmfg

[boggyman]

6 minutes ago, realmfg said:

Lol, you both have a 23* club... Just a different number the company decided to stamp on it.  What's the back and forth about.

Wow, we do both have a 23* club. Thanks for noticing! 👍🏼👍🏼

[bekgolf]

10 minutes ago, boggyman said:

Awesome! 23* is my 3 iron! Try explaining that one to guys in your group🤣🤣🤣when they ask ,”what was that”? 😳 I’ve been down the strong loft road a few times but ALWAYS revert back! 12 clubs and I’m set, leaves 2 open options IF I want them. Whatever it takes, to each their own. 

 

I think perfection for me were the X18 irons.  Forgiving and they would draw on command.  The 3 iron was 21* and I rarely hit it.  The 4 iron was 24* and was a weapon.

 

Whenever someone asks "what did you hit" I tell them the iron number and then tell them the loft of the club.

[AC168]

All else equal there are heads that go further and straighter but that doesn’t necessarily equate to lower scores.  There is a pretty clear long term relationship to working on your game and getting better.

[Blaiser]

The only club you are trying to maximize distance with is driver. Literally nothing else matters.

[Thayneil]

5 hours ago, mukster said:

Quite honestly, the only thing that I used to dislike about “jacked irons“ is when someone tells me how they hit their nine iron past my eight iron, although his nine iron is stronger lofted than my eight.

 

Now I have a fun time calling them out.

 

Otherwise, unless we all play traditionally lofted irons with a pitching wedge of 48° or higher, I feel there is nothing more to say about this.

 

guy s that say you should keep up with the times , then  proceed to fly a 43Pw back edge and have it run into trouble

 

i like to hit my Pw 100  no more

[philly2kuk]

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, nobody in the real world cares what you’ve hit or if your lofts are jacked compared to their clubs etc. It’s only here on WRX where we care. The only time someone has asked me about a club is either if I’m driving well or putting well.

 

As long as you know how far you carry each iron, regardless of loft, you’ll do alright with practice. It’s meant to be fun.

Edited May 28, 2023 by philly2kuk

[R_Swanson]

ITT:  Old man yells at cloud

 

[Port and Starboard]

Loft is loft.   

 

Nobody cares if your hitting a wedge - 7 iron - Hybrid to a 120 yard pin.

 

I routinely get beat by a 80 year old friend in my association who hits a Hybrid from 120 while I am hitting a wedge. He's a single digit hdcp and I am a 10?

 

We have a few younger guys in our association who seem to take pride in hitting pitching wedges from 150 yards.......... while playing to a 12-13 hdcp or higher?

 

 

[RobS]

This category of iron makes the game more fun for a pretty high percentage of players.  Conversely, the percentage of players who can practice enough (or have the ability) to dramatically improve their games is pretty low.  There are plenty of really good players that shoot low scores with strong lofted GI clubs but the target market for these irons are players that aren't striking the ball with great consistency.  They're going to pull the clubs out of the trunk, spend 10 minutes on the range, play 18 holes of bogey plus golf and smile over that 170 yard 7i they hit while enjoying a beer after the round.  They have more fun shooting 92 while bombing a handful of irons than shooting 92 using 1 or 2 more clubs into greens.  

 

I don't think I know anyone outside of the internet golf world who cares about the lofts of anyones irons or what iron someone else hits into a green.  An approach hit to 10' with a TM Stealth 8i is worth just as much as the same approach hit with a TM TW 6i.

[JetSpeed79]

Eventually the jacked loft thing will come to its natural conclusion: the driving wedge.

 

And yes, I will buy one. 

[bluedot]

I’ve never understood the angst about “jacked lofts”.  My T200 PW is 43*; if it was 48* or 50*, I’d hit moon balls that would go nowhere.

 

Technology for irons started changing with the Eye2, and lofts have come down as part of the process.  Why that one spec matters in a set of irons is a mystery to me.  And if ANY golfer buys irons because of marketing hype about distance, is unhappy with the purchase and blames “jacked lofts”, well…

 

I do believe there is at least something of a tradeoff in irons between “easy to hit”and forgiving (whatever those might mean for an individual) and accuracy, but I don’t think any of that is loft-based.  I also believe that hollow irons with driver-like technology ARE longer at corresponding lofts, but when I get fitted for irons we look at a lot of numbers, but not distances compared to lofts.  Why would I?

[ChipStrokes]

23 minutes ago, JetSpeed79 said:

Eventually the jacked loft thing will come to its natural conclusion: the driving wedge.

 

And yes, I will buy one. 

those already exist. 

 

i’ve played with more than a few people who hit their driver as far as i hit my pitching wedge 😂😂😂

[North Butte]

13 minutes ago, bluedot said:

I do believe there is at least something of a tradeoff in irons between “easy to hit”and forgiving (whatever those might mean for an individual) and accuracy, but I don’t think any of that is loft-based.  I also believe that hollow irons with driver-like technology ARE longer at corresponding lofts, but when I get fitted for irons we look at a lot of numbers, but not distances compared to lofts.  Why would I?

For me there was a small step function increase in loft-for-distance with the advent of high-COR irons. I'd played golf for around 20 years, gradually improving from not being able to break 100 to shooting in the 90's to shooting in the 80's and eventually around a 17hcp. During all that time, the accuracy and consistency of my iron shots improved but the relationship between loft and distance was surprisingly consistent (across a wide range of club models).

 

It always took about a 28 degree loft for me to hit a 150-yard shot under normal conditions. Then I got my first set of hot faced irons (Ping G) and over time I've noticed that about a 30 degree loft has become my 150-yard shot. So it's not like the spring-face irons are going 20 yards farther or something. But at the same loft a high-COR iron goes about five yards longer for me than an old low-COR one. And that's remained constant for several years now even as I change models or brands of irons.

 

That said, I also noticed a step function in how high I hit a given lofted iron. The high-COR irons go about five yards farther loft for loft but they go noticeably higher as well. Which is nice. Even with their lower spin I gain consistency and control from that higher flight.

[AC810]

I think the appeal with these irons is just as much about the increased forgiveness as it is the distance thing. These hollow body clubs have such a big sweet spot compared to a blade or cavity back. At least that’s why I play my PXG Ps, but I did bend them 2° weak. 

[ShortGolfer]

I've noticed that about my hollow body clubs.  I'd make a bad swing and my ball would only be a few yards from where I intended for it to go.  It wasn't as pretty but it made the game easier to play.

[caniac6]

16 hours ago, jjfcpa said:

Most higher handicap golfers understand this, but I wonder if the average amateur golfer understands the trade-off when playing irons with stronger lofts.

 

Sure, manufacturers have done an admirable job making them have a higher apex and better landing angles, but there are still trade-offs that most amateurs can't really take advantage of.  I've been a victim of the hype and bought into the "higher, longer, straighter" BS that you seen in just about everyone OEM's advertising.

 

I've compared lots of different brands and generally, my slower swing speed will not result in "higher, longer, straighter".  What does make the ball "higher, longer, straighter" is practice, practice, practice.  

 

I've yet to find a set of irons that is 10 yards longer and goes straighter than the irons I'm playing.  And that includes all the big OEM's.  Are they perhaps a little easier to hit... sure... but unless you understand the basic fundamentals of the golf swing, your contact won't be any better and while you may see a yard or two more distance, it may not be as high or as straight as you want it to be.  There are trade-offs.

 

I'm 75 years old and work on my fitness daily, which includes stretching.  And while I've changed clubs 5 or 6 times in the last few years, the only thing that's made any real difference is my fitness and the time I spend at the driving range and putting green.  

 

If you truly want to gain some yardage and hit the ball straighter and lower your score... take some lessons and then practice, practice, practice, what they teach you.  There are no trade-offs when you follow that advice.

I have been testing a lot of clubs with needing to switch from stiff to regular shafts following shoulder surgery. I have seen longer, straighter, higher shots, and ten yard increases. I agree with practice, and exercise, but there are things to be gained with newer technology, also.

[Red4282]

There isnt any “trade off” for loft jacking. Newer clubs do not launch higher than those of 20 years ago. However, with the implementation of spring faces, you will see a little more ball speed and because of this, more apex height. This is the reasoning OEMs justify the jacked lofts. This has had a trickle effect of creeping in to non spring face designs, and at that point its just vanity. At the end of the day all that matters is you know which club hits which distance. 

Edited May 28, 2023 by Red4282

[North Butte]

It's one thing to look at a 29-degree iron with "8" on the sole and thinking, "That's silly, it ought to have a 6 on it". But for some reason people who start these constant "loft jacking" complaint threads don't stop there. They seem to believe that "8" on the sole is going to somehow make that 29-degree club...well, I don't know what they think...what exactly is the downside supposed to be from having "8" rather than "6" on the sole? 

[taki27]

11 hours ago, bekgolf said:

 

How old are you?

 

Lol.

There hasn’t been a 30 degree 5 iron made since 1995

[Ephemerlol]

I get the impression that a lot of guys spin the ball too much and strong lofts and spring faces lower their spin into better windows.  As a lower spin player if I played those clubs I would expect trouble.  They could learn to deliver less loft with a weaker club, but that's not really the point of club fitting. 

[North Butte]

1 minute ago, Ephemerlol said:

I get the impression that a lot of guys spin the ball too much and strong lofts and spring faces lower their spin into better windows.  As a lower spin player if I played those clubs I would expect trouble.  They could learn to deliver less loft with a weaker club, but that's not really the point of club fitting. 

For a year I played a set of Rogue X irons. Yes, they were the most "jacked" lofts of any clubs I've ever owned but I don't think that was the problem. They hit the ball nice and high, at least as high as any other irons of similar loft (no matter the number on the sole).

But they must have had the hot faces to beat all hot faces. Even down at the PW/AW end of the set and even playing my usual Pro V1x I don't know how many balls I saw come in nice and high but then bounce forward like you wouldn't believe. I think they took the "high launch, low spin" to a whole new level. But man, that 7-iron and 6-iron were high, straight and long!

[Lftygolfnut]

My challenge is that I prefer the size/shape and tech of a players distance iron but prefer traditional lofts. As a recreational golfer I don’t enjoy compact irons.  I supposed one could bend the more forgiving clubs weak. 

[drumdude96]

13 hours ago, puttingmatt said:

Most, iron lofts are jacked, when compared to irons from  5 to 10 years ago.

That's why I still play irons that are over 10 years old. My PW already flies 150 yards. I don't need it to go 165 or more. I get very turned off when I check the specs on new irons and see how strong-lofted they are. It's ridiculous that some of these sets have to include two gap wedges because they have jacked the lofts so much.

[bluedot]

42 minutes ago, Red4282 said:

There isnt any “trade off” for loft jacking. Newer clubs do not launch higher than those of 20 years ago. However, with the implementation of spring faces, you will see a little more ball speed and because of this, more apex height. This is the reasoning OEMs justify the jacked lofts. This has had a trickle effect of creeping in to non spring face designs, and at that point it’s just vanity. At the end of the day all that matters is you know which club hits which distance. 

 

I assure you that iron lofts were changing long before “spring faces”.  The gap wedge came into existence in the early 90’s because PWs had become stronger and longer, but we still needed lofted wedges for bunkers, flops, etc, so a “gap” developed.  Same thing in the opposite direction at the other end of the bag, which is why (along with hybrids) 2 and 3 irons have disappeared; the lofts would be too strong and the increments between clubs too small.

 

Newer clubs DO launch higher AT THE SAME LOFT; that’s not really in doubt.  You might not have ever hit a 50, or even a 48 degree PW, but at those lofts, current clubs would play like, well, a gap wedge.  Much higher and much shorter.

[bluedot]

1 hour ago, AC810 said:

I think the appeal with these irons is just as much about the increased forgiveness as it is the distance thing. These hollow body clubs have such a big sweet spot compared to a blade or cavity back. At least that’s why I play my PXG Ps, but I did bend them 2° weak. 

What are you trying to accomplish by the weaker lofts?  

Edited May 28, 2023 by bluedot

[boggyman]

26 minutes ago, taki27 said:

There hasn’t been a 30 degree 5 iron made since 1995

The irons set I regularly play were last produced in ‘83, who cares.  They flat out work for me. I do have a backup set of them plus a couple sets of all hybrid irons that are collecting dust. I choose to play the blades from the 80s. On good strikes I know what I’ll get, totally predictable,just a good old fashioned chunk of metal, no hot faced iron for me. Been there done that, I’m out!