General question... are you aware of the clubface orientation in your swing or is it not something you think about?

[kool-aid]

Just wondering if people generally think/feel where the face is and make an intentional attempt to get it back to square at impact, or whether you don't think about it at all and expect proper mechanics/setup/swing etc to get it back to impact square? I was starting to struggle towards the end of my round today with weak/right misses and started trying to feel my hands getting the face back square at impact and hit some pretty quality shots to finish up. Never tried it before and now I'm wondering if it's something that many/most people do?

[getitdaily]

I don't think about it at all. But I also know what I do that causes me to be more open or closed at impact.

[stryper]

Nope, don’t think about it.

[DShepley]

I don't think about it when I'm playing but when I practice I often try to feel where it is with slow motion swings and position checks.  If you want to heighten this feel sometimes, you can close your eyes as you make slow swings.  More of a 'what did I try to do to the face and what was the result type of thing, (watch ball flight to show the effect).  I tend to get a bit cupped at the top and too far into the downswing which creates a lot of late face rotation to get back on the ball.  I'm working with the Prosendr currently and trying to feel that I am closing the face more gradually from the top.  My current drill, I FEEL like I slam the club shut in transition though on video it it isn't the case, it is much more gradual.

 

[Sp4zRX]

I don’t think about it but if the face gets wide open at the top of my swing I can feel it but by the time my brain has a chance to process it, the ball is gone. 

[SEP1006]

Don't think about it at all. If I'm doing what I'm supposed to do with everything else the club face rotation will take care of itself.

[nitram]

Set & Forget

[mshills]

Don't think about it except right at the takeaway, a key for me to set the club is to avoid taking it back slammed shut.  Residual of 1990s "low and slow takeaway" instruction.  🤮

[third-times-a-charm]

Never a thought. All the other stuff I do effects that so it's better to think of the root cause and not the symptom. 

[Avidswampthing66]

Never think about it.  I mainly think about getting depth in the backswing and not getting quick.

[Long_Left]

A lifelong struggle with an open clubface means I have intent over it. My username is a reflection of that (lefty,) high bomb pushes when I get complacent. 

 

I am aware of the clubface until transition, from there I just try to turn hard and keep my lead hip back. 60% of the time it works every time!

[iacas]

As with almost everything in golf, those who don't have a huge problem with it don't think about it (nor should they), and those who have an issue with it are and almost should be thinking about it all the time (when practicing/improving).

 

And the latter group isn't as large as it should be, because more golfers have issues with the clubface than they realize.

[Zitlow]

My hands sense through proprioception where the shaft and the clubface are throughout the swing. The shaft and the clubface should be set on the inclined plane by P3 and continue on plane to the top. 

 

 

If the shaft and club are on plane (aimed at the ball on the inclined plane) at the top you don't have to tap on the brakes coming down. Just get your downswing started correctly in transition and then and let her go. 

 

Conscious thoughts slow down the reflexes. 

 

 

 

[ShortGolfer]

Where I play it can be very useful to hit the green hole high and roll the ball to the right for birdies. Which is what I get when I square up the club.

I can open and return the face for backspin but I've not mastered backspin; I recall a recent ball rolling off the front of the green.  Or the ball bouncing straight off the green.

Hitting a small green and manipulating spin on the ball is hard.

Edited January 16 by ShortGolfer

[Golfbeat]

Sometimes I feel that the club face is too open and then I will have to actively shut it to save it.

[airjammer]

My subconscious mind knows exactly what the clubface orientation is. It’s never a conscious thought but my grip strength is definitely seems to be a conscious thought doe whatever reason. 
 

Pros talk all the time about their legs getting tired and they start losing shots off to the right because of this so I suspect that is your problem as well. 

[PedronNiall]

I'd bet a lot of better players who have been golfing since they were younger intuitively picked up on the fact that as long as the club doesn't twist in the hand because of a poor grip, etc., the back of the hand basically becomes an analog for the club face. If the hand rotates Y°, the face approximates the same, though larger grips can change that slightly. Visual & mental acuity aren't sharp enough to actively catch the milliseconds where the face/head is blurring back or through the visible field and make any kind of adjustment. Better players can work on feeling it while practicing takeaway & downswing motions slowly, but what the hands are doing during the swing controls the face, and as the club comes down everything is happening too quickly for fully conscious control to be at play. 

 

Nicklaus & Miller used to talk about how they'd do X right as they made contact with the ball only to have studies show that even the best synaptic signals don't act quickly enough to allow for that. As always, our feels often aren't reals. Wherever we feel the face is at during a certain point in the swing--if we even get it right--by the time we feel it and can consciously act, things have already changed, especially in the downswing at speed. Better players exaggerate what they want to do in practice swings so that lower parts of the brain can figure it all out when things are happening too quickly for conscious thought. Any aware movements likely would not show up on video to at all be what we thought we were doing to make an adjustment in the split seconds they happened. 

 

I'd imagine swing & total weight make a difference, but messing around with most clubs it's magnitudes easier for me to tell where the face is by my hand position than it is by how the club itself feels or tries to orient at the top, and that's holding it in place. Add in the increased signals from the body with everything moving during an actual shot and things will get even murkier.

 

Gotta do what you gotta do when you're in the middle of a round, but if I'm trying to make any meaningful assessment of what's happening I'd do what most of the instructors here try to beat into our heads and get yourself on video so you know what's happening during the off line shots, what you're actually doing when it's online, and what those feels actually amount to at speed in a swing. I'd bet even when chipping we're often wrong about what we interpret our feels to translate to. 

[otto6457]

I guess I have some idea of the club face.  My feel is to not let the toe catch the heel through impact.  I wouldn't call that a usable knowledge of the club face.  It's just a feeling.  So I certainly wouldn't put much credence in the feels of a random poster on Gwrx that is really bored at work at the moment.

Edited January 19 by otto6457
too wordy

[b.mattay]

Of course I think about it. Clubface orientation throughout the downswing is my biggest focal point in the swing.

[PJE]

I don’t have a right miss and I’ve never thought of this particular thing. 
I have worked on lag/casting but that was in drills on the range. 

[MattM97]

6 hours ago, nitram said:

Set & Forget

 

The Ronco method.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

I'm not aware of nor thinking about it. 

 

But don't listen to me; I also have poor clubface control 😂

 

[naval2006]

I don’t know if you can think about that while swinging. You can feel the club in different ways: grip in hands, shaft at some specific point, clubhead back and through. But squaring the clubface to the ball is uncontrollable. And with the complexity of alignment and club path, squaring is bottom of the barrel in general. 

[Nard_S]

Use the base of right index finger as reference point.

[MPStrat]

I like to think so 

[MonteScheinblum]

It’s cut and dried

 

If if it’s in position,

you don’t need to think about it.  
 

If it’s out of position you need to make yourself aware of why and rectify it.

[kool-aid]

Interesting... pretty much what I expected, it seems like this could be a rat hole that I don't want to go down which could lead to way too much conscious thought. I think I will keep it in mind as a bandaid for when I am struggling but not something to actually key on

[virtuoso]

On 1/16/2024 at 2:26 AM, kool-aid said:

Just wondering if people generally think/feel where the face is and make an intentional attempt to get it back to square at impact, or whether you don't think about it at all and expect proper mechanics/setup/swing etc to get it back to impact square? I was starting to struggle towards the end of my round today with weak/right misses and started trying to feel my hands getting the face back square at impact and hit some pretty quality shots to finish up. Never tried it before and now I'm wondering if it's something that many/most people do?

The pro's do it exactly as you did it. They don't think about it.....and then they block a couple into the gallery...and they do something about it.

[GolfTurkey]

Unfortunately I can't really sense it during the swing but have a very accurate feel for where it is at impact.

 

If you blindfolded me right at impact, I could tell you if I hit it OB right or OB left.

[Zitlow]

Your right palm should match the clubface pretty much. So if you sense where it is you'll know where the clubface is.