LIV with some big money announcements (*** TOPIC MODERATED ***)

[Short Pete]

4 hours ago, lowheel said:

Its been reported by the washington post, Axios, Associated press...

 

Also who cares if tiger gives norman the time of day, its irrelevant.

 

When you want to draw talent over to your new league/startup you need to pay top dollar, whats difficult to understand? LIV did what anybody would with  green light to spend. Its free agency, simple as that. Norman or anybody running else running  LIV would do the same thing, what their financiers what them to do. Stop pretending this is about norman

It is about Norman, plain and simple. If he had wanted a sustainable product that attracts the good players he could have easily bought the DP Tour, established 10 multimillion dollar events and pay appearance fees. With the remaining money he squandered on BDC, DJ and Philly Mick he could have strengthened the smaller events, thus creating a Tour that’s equivalent or better than the PGA. But he wants to disrupt. This LIV concept sucks in so many aspects, the only thing that works halfway is throwing absurd chunks of money around. There is not much new in this, and the new stuff sucks. If there was any proof needed that it’s about destroying the existing structure you got it when he bought Henrik Stenson. A part time retired one time major champion that happens to be RC captain. I guess he had asked Zach Johnson before, but he kicked him out the door, as did many other marquee names. If Bedminster isn’t a rousing success Norman could get into some trouble. Recruiting Paul Casey and Charles Howell is presumably not that exciting. But hey, there’s a new great team on the horizon: Howell, Perez, Kokrak and Bland: The Journeymen. 

[idrive]

IMO  -  this is nothing but telling it like it is.  I have edited out references to items that keeps the Kingdom out of the conversation, which was not kind. You can read the unedited article by clicking on the link.

 

LIV has paid big money for golfers past their best. Will the Saudis care? (msn.com)

 

Sportswashing is not supposed to make commercial sense. Therein lies the reason that no normally functioning business saw fit to throw hundreds of millions of dollars at a disruption. If the PGA and DP World Tours find themselves embroiled in a commercial long game with the Saudi-backed LIV Series, they know they will be outmuscled.

LIV understandably heralded the coaxing of Henrik Stenson from Ryder Cup captaincy duties. This was a body blow inflicted by Greg Norman against golf’s anti-LIV establishment. The behaviour of Stenson and his representatives is dispiriting stuff; having agreed to lead Europe against the United States next year in Rome, he had a contractual obligation to stay clear of LIV. If the Swede and his management knew a change of plan was possible all along, or even used the captaincy to leverage towards that, they should be ashamed. If this chain of events took Stenson by surprise, there is a serious amount of naivety at play. In an incredible public statement, the 2016 Open champion tried to paint himself as a victim who was somehow edged out of the captain’s role despite wanting to combine it with LIV appearances.

What Norman, LIV’s figurehead, will not want to focus on is that Stenson’s on-course performances have fallen off a cliff. It is a triumph these days if he breaks 72. Since a share of ninth at the 2019 US Open, the 46-year-old’s major record reads: T20, cut, cut, cut, T38, T64, cut, cut, cut, cut. He has not won since 2017. Stenson serves a purpose for LIV in statement terms but adds nothing in a sporting sense. And yet he will be guaranteed at least $120,000 (£100,000) for every tournament on top of a signing-on fee reportedly worth tens of millions.

Stenson falls into a category that includes other LIV converts such as Ian Poulter, Lee Westwood, Phil Mickelson, Paul Casey, Sergio García, Graeme McDowell, Martin Kaymer and Charl Schwartzel. Their best days are behind them.

 

Norman used media duties at the opening LIV event to admit he had waited three decades to mount a challenge to the PGA Tour. For him, this is personal. Finally, the Australian found an entity rich enough to fund his dream. Even better for Norman is that he is being paid an exorbitant salary to live it.

The broader picture involves scenes of partying on a private jet. It includes Pat Perez appearing in a shirt with dollar-note design. There are agents, public-relations companies and caddies collecting small fortunes on the back of a model that serves no competitive purpose.

LIV can make as many noises as it likes about potential broadcast partners, gambling openings and the sale of team franchises but the unavoidable current look is of opportunists who have used Saudi’s golf ambitions to line their pockets. The rights and wrongs of taking that option can be debated but far more intriguing is for how long the PIF is content to provide such generosity. Should Mohammed bin Salman sense he is being taken advantage of the future will not look pretty for LIV golfers.

Validation of LIV’s approach will come if, as has been speculated, it can agree a deal with the recently crowned Open champion, Cameron Smith. A fierce exchange between Australian broadcasters last week emphasized the scale of reaction Smith, who has a hitherto unblemished reputation, may receive at home should he take the plunge.

LIV’s need to add a player of such standing will mean an offer well in excess of $100m heading in Smith’s direction. It is a deal that would earn ridicule in any other boardroom. The PIF has to ensure it is not the one being laughed at.

[RobS]

7 hours ago, dalehead said:

Finally someone who understands the YouTube generation. The segment of them that are into golf are not interested in watching tournaments. They like their golf programs in 20-30 minute bites. Attractions for them are club reviews, personalities, so called influencers, trick shots, instruction, etc. They don’t watch PGAT on TV because they find it boring. When you strip away all the hoopla, LIV offers them the same product as the PGAT. 5 hours of guys hitting golf shots. This is LIV’s biggest problem.

I have some experience with this, albeit anecdotal.  I have a teenage son who is a competitive junior golfer with a pretty large circle of golf fanatic friends.  They are all in on Youtube golf content from the likes of GM Golf/Good Good, Foreplay, etc.  They do, however, watch a lot of PGA on TV and it's a common topic on the range, in the car and in the text chats.

 

I believe you are correct about the LIV product.  The differences are not significant enough.  For this generation, I think the PGAT vs LIV debate comes down to the names and which tour has the players that resonate with them.  If LIV is really going after the YouTube generation, they are going after the wrong players.  Outside of DJ and Brooks, they don't much connect with the other LIV players.  They're more interested in James Piot than they are Sergio, GMac, Poulter, Reed and Na combined.  If LIV signs several budding young stars like Zalatoris and Cam Young and personalities like Homa, they will own that YouTube demographic.  Cam Smith, rumored to LIV eventually, would be significant signing in that regard.

 

Tiger Woods still carries a lot of weight with the current junior golf generation and Tiger's comments at the Open cooled some of the LIV enthusiasm at the junior end of the range, at my club at least. 

[jplroper]

McCord, Barkley, and Feherty as announcers? They seem alright when paired with a lead announcer, but the 3 of them jumping over each other with one liners while the youtube coverage switches faster than a roulette wheel on crack, that should loose its charm in about 2 tournaments.

[leezer99]

10 hours ago, NoFancyUsername. said:

Why don't you all ask your juniors at your golf club what golf do they actually watch.......It's all youtube podcasters. I was pointed in the direction of a couple of young golfers who have 686K subscribers...real good content, and it's not all about 72 holes of golf.....they're all using differing formats to keep it alive...and there are many that have over 100K views....it ain't the old brigade watching youtube..it's a majority of all the young ones. The LIV PR team are just following suit. Even The Open starting using youtube for "live at the range" this year. Who knows, the PGAT may even start promoting that they use youtube. World's changing and so will golf. 

 

This sounds like Good Good Golf but they have 787,000 subscribers and nearly 150 million views on their videos.  They have put out hundreds of videos but just this month they have released 10 that have all exceeded 400,000 views.  They play knockout games, 2v2, or they'll announce a match someplace and hundreds and hundreds of kids will show up just to watch them play.  And of course they sell merchandise on their main site that probably won't appeal to the OEM diehards.  I enjoy the content and have underwear older than most of their crew.

Edited July 24, 2022 by leezer99

[bladehunter]

12 hours ago, BottleCap said:

Less and less people are tuning into broadcast tv. I wonder who’s going to be watching those networks 5 years from now.

 

There’s so much golf content on Youtube these days thats going to pull youngsters over there like Good Good and Bryson Dechambeau

 

I have a cable subscription, the only reason why i have it is for formula 1. Everyone else i know that has cable tv is in their 60s. 

I’m 42 and have satellite.  Plenty of us don’t have internet that’s good enough to stream 3 TVs plus a kid with a custom built gaming pc that seems to literally suck all wifi in it’s orbit. 
 

Our road doesn’t even have DSL.  And won’t get it because the whole road has satellite.  So it’s through the phone company still. And I’m probably not in the top 80 % most remote places in the USA.  There’s 30 years of infrastructure work to do before most people are streaming only.  At least that much. 

[freeze16172002]

Norman has nothing to do with how long LIV golf lasts. It is sportwashing not a investment trying to make a return. Is there real interest? A dog catching a frisbee gets more views

Edited July 24, 2022 by freeze16172002

[bladehunter]

6 hours ago, lowheel said:

Its been reported by the washington post, Axios, Associated press...

 

Also who cares if tiger gives norman the time of day, its irrelevant.

 

When you want to draw talent over to your new league/startup you need to pay top dollar, whats difficult to understand? LIV did what anybody would with  green light to spend. Its free agency, simple as that. Norman or anybody running else running  LIV would do the same thing, what their financiers what them to do. Stop pretending this is about norman

Come on man.  It’s all about Norman. This never happens if Greg doesn’t keep going hat in hand to the $ men pitching plans.  They wouldn’t have done  this themselves.  Greg is their in.  And their muse.  Their name recognition.   The only other option they had was to buy Phil.  Which was possible.  But all fingers point to Greg.  Didn’t he try this from several angles?  Saudi golf league etc. 

 

 

[idrive]

Haven't been the biggest Keith Mitchell fan but I am now.

 

This tour pro is tired of LIV golfers denigrating the PGA Tour: 'It's so false' | Golf News and Tour Information | GolfDigest.com

[Str8Putt]

11 hours ago, NoFancyUsername. said:

Why don't you all ask your juniors at your golf club what golf do they actually watch.......It's all youtube podcasters. I was pointed in the direction of a couple of young golfers who have 686K subscribers...real good content, and it's not all about 72 holes of golf.....they're all using differing formats to keep it alive...and there are many that have over 100K views....it ain't the old brigade watching youtube..it's a majority of all the young ones. The LIV PR team are just following suit. Even The Open starting using youtube for "live at the range" this year. Who knows, the PGAT may even start promoting that they use youtube. World's changing and so will golf. 

My son was a Senior in HS when the dark times of Covid hit. He never went back to school after Spring Break in March. They went to online classes. Well here in their wisdom said they were freezing grades...and said if our grades wouldn't go down but could only go up, so those passing could improve their grade but not make it worse, he was a Honors grad so he pretty much stop going to the online classes as most of the Seniors.

 

One day I had him pick me up from work and saw a golfbag in the back and asked him what were the clubs doing back there and he said he got tired of sitting around the house and was going to the range hitting balls everyday. I told him well I can give you some YouTubers to watch if you want to get some tips or something and he said He was watching Rich Shiels, Peter Finch and a few other guys. So I was pretty much shocked by all that 

I had taken him a few times as a kid but he never cared for Golf until then so we been going to the range and playing ever since.

I'm in my 40's and I'm pretty much to the point I rather watch YT content than regular golf broadcast. I watched gm_golf yesterday play a match against John Daly Jr and his Ark teammate Denver Davis and it was way more enjoyable 

I'm surprised LIV hasn't tried getting Rick or Paige to be on course commentators... I know they flew MrShortGame out to the London event and he blogged about it.

[farmer]

When the LIV golfers have had a year of 54 hole, no cut tourneys, how will they respond when they are included in the majors for which they are qualified?  Casual Thursday will not be a thing, and 72 holes with the pressure ratcheting up every day is going to be a sea change for them.

[CDM]

14 hours ago, Gxgolfer said:

It was rejected because you posted the same thing an hour ago. Maybe edit your original post instead of repeatedly posting the same thing. 

Also, anything with 911 families has exhaustively been covered and that topic will not be expanded on. 

 

 

Thank you...... using 911 victims in golf is pathetic...!

[Cactus Jack]

1 hour ago, bladehunter said:

Come on man.  It’s all about Norman. This never happens if Greg doesn’t keep going hat in hand to the $ men pitching plans.  They wouldn’t have done  this themselves.  Greg is their in.  And their muse.  Their name recognition.   The only other option they had was to buy Phil.  Which was possible.  But all fingers point to Greg.  Didn’t he try this from several angles?  Saudi golf league etc. 

 

 

So what? Seriously, why does anyone care? An entrepreneur saw an unmet need in a market, worked tirelessly for decades to gain momentum, finally got some, and now you want to trash the guy for making progress because you disagree with his view of the professional game?
 

The fact people have something against Norman is weird to begin with. Nobody on this forum has ever met the man. Nobody on this forum knows anything about him, has never spoken a single word to him, nothing. We watch him on TV and behind screens, that’s it. Why again, does anyone feel the need to vilify a person you’ve never met about a situation you don’t understand and are not part of? 
 

Between tearing down a human, and 400 pages of near explicit xenophobia toward SA, this thread is gross. I apologize for my contribution here. I was wrong and should’ve recognized long ago this thread has devolved into something I don’t want to be associated with. 

[golfandfishing]

15 hours ago, oikos1 said:

 

 

If the OWGR truly want to have legitimacy and credibility, any Tour that uses the USGA and R&A rules of golf should be able to qualify for OWGR points.  Strength of field and length of tournament need be the only requirements.  Wouldn't that ultimately "grow the game"?

 

 

 

Wut? Every mini tour, state amateur, junior golf tour, and most club events play by these rules. Are you saying a club championship should get OWGR points? The Colorado Open? The Dakotas Tour? An NCAA or NAIA tournament? The US Junior? 

[bladehunter]

54 minutes ago, Cactus Jack said:

So what? Seriously, why does anyone care? An entrepreneur saw an unmet need in a market, worked tirelessly for decades to gain momentum, finally got some, and now you want to trash the guy for making progress because you disagree with his view of the professional game?
 

The fact people have something against Norman is weird to begin with. Nobody on this forum has ever met the man. Nobody on this forum knows anything about him, has never spoken a single word to him, nothing. We watch him on TV and behind screens, that’s it. Why again, does anyone feel the need to vilify a person you’ve never met about a situation you don’t understand and are not part of? 
 

Between tearing down a human, and 400 pages of near explicit xenophobia toward SA, this thread is gross. I apologize for my contribution here. I was wrong and should’ve recognized long ago this thread has devolved into something I don’t want to be associated with. 

Read the comment I responded to And you’ll  see the “so what” .  I am friends with low heel. He knows I’m not coming after him personally. I simply said , “ yes. This is mostly about Norman and his ego which has had an axe to grind with the pga tour for many years.  “. In short. He’s after revenge. And I don’t even know why.  
 

as far as this thread being gross ?  Please.  People have different opinions than yours.  And that’s ok.  Being tolerant is a two  way street. 
 

And wrong. There are people on this forum who have met Norman.  I’m not one of them. But I am around some others who you’d say “ nobody knows this guy personally “.  This is a big forum.  And the world is a tiny place now. Don’t be so quick to think than “ nobody knows this person “.   Greg himself probably has a screen name here.  

Edited July 24, 2022 by bladehunter

[GreatStrike]

4 hours ago, jplroper said:

McCord, Barkley, and Feherty as announcers? They seem alright when paired with a lead announcer, but the 3 of them jumping over each other with one liners while the youtube coverage switches faster than a roulette wheel on crack, that should loose its charm in about 2 tournaments.

 

LIV will have a highly experienced and well-respected team in the broadcast booth with Jerry Foltz, Arlo White and Dom Boulet and the addition of Gary McCord, with David Feherty's on-course commentary. Gary McCord and David Feherty are valued for their playing experience and tag-team humor while Charles Barkley can add a bit of humor and commentary from an amateur's perspective. Wonderful choices for an excellent team! 👍   

 

 

  

Edited July 24, 2022 by Hocus_Pocus

[getitdaily]

Lol...the entire premise of LIV literally just hit me in the face.

 

I'm getting ready for the 3m coverage and CBS has Big 3 coverage on. Any of you who've played basketball growing up, you'll know 3on3, half court, make-it-take-it.

 

That's Big 3 basketball. Washed up or never-been basketball guys playing a 3o3 pickup game. 

 

It's liv in a nutshell. Washed up players playing what we all can play. It's the Shotgun start, small field scramble.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

2 hours ago, CDM said:

 

Thank you...... using 911 victims in golf is pathetic...!

You and @Gxgolferare making a blatant mischaracterization!

The law firm representing 9-11 families suit against the Saudi's dropped Kokrak for going to LIV. That's the link I tried posting twice once around 130pm EST on 7/23 and again later that evening. Both were denied by mods. The link was finally approved after @Gxgolferscolded me. Yes I posted one without the link and that may have snuck through and @Gxgolferexpects me to edit that one to add the link? Seems like a trap since for some reason you denied the same link to Bloomberg law twice prior. 

 

@Gxgolfer if you show me the logs that refute what I'm saying I'll apologize. If the logs show otherwise then you can apologize. 

[Gxgolfer]

1 hour ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

You and @Gxgolferare making a blatant mischaracterization!

The law firm representing 9-11 families suit against the Saudi's dropped Kokrak for going to LIV. That's the link I tried posting twice once around 130pm EST on 7/23 and again later that evening. Both were denied by mods. The link was finally approved after @Gxgolferscolded me. Yes I posted one without the link and that may have snuck through and @Gxgolferexpects me to edit that one to add the link? Seems like a trap since for some reason you denied the same link to Bloomberg law twice prior. 

 

@Gxgolfer if you show me the logs that refute what I'm saying I'll apologize. If the logs show otherwise then you can apologize. 

I did not characterize anything and you have now crossed a line that warrants a time out. 

Right or wrong will not matter in this. As stated earlier, there will be zero tolerance for moderation criticism of this thread. 

[Ghost of Snead]

45 minutes ago, Hocus_Pocus said:

 

LIV will have a highly experienced and well-respected team in the broadcast booth with Jerry Foltz, Arlo White and Dom Boulet and the addition of Gary McCord, with David Feherty's on-course commentary. Gary McCord and David Feherty are valued for their playing experience and tag-team humor while Charles Barkley can add a bit of humor and commentary from an amateur's perspective. Wonderful choices for an excellent team! 👍   

 

 

  

 

The comedy of McCord and Feherty is better suited for Wipeout, Dancing with the Stars, or Celebrity Family Feud. 

[MaineMariner]

58 minutes ago, Hocus_Pocus said:

 

LIV will have a highly experienced and well-respected team in the broadcast booth with Jerry Foltz, Arlo White and Dom Boulet and the addition of Gary McCord, with David Feherty's on-course commentary. Gary McCord and David Feherty are valued for their playing experience and tag-team humor while Charles Barkley can add a bit of humor and commentary from an amateur's perspective. Wonderful choices for an excellent team! 👍   

 

 

  

 

What's the deal with the font change? Where did you copy and paste the Charles Barkley line from?

[chisag]

54 minutes ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

Both were denied by mods.

 

 

... I wrote a post I thought was clever and for some reason I didn't understand, the Mods denied it. I thought it contained something we probably disagreed as being against the rules so I just moved on. Figured it is like an ump calling a 3rd strike on what I thought was low and away. We may disagree but they are in charge and without them it would be chaos, especially with this subject. 

Edited July 24, 2022 by chisag

[Tbone107]

19 minutes ago, Ghost of Snead said:

 

The comedy of McCord and Feherty is better suited for Wipeout, Dancing with the Stars, or Celebrity Family Feud. 

*In your opinion. 
 

I don’t see it that way. In my opinion, I think it will be more enjoyable/engaging compared to the 3M broadcast.

 

That’s the beauty of this, we get to choose what we all like and can voice our opinion by what we choose to tune in to. 

Edited July 24, 2022 by Tbone107

[aenemated]

21 minutes ago, MaineMariner said:

What's the deal with the font change? Where did you copy and paste the Charles Barkley line from?

 

Clearly they haven't taught the mechanical turks about "rich text!"

 

Pro-tip: Obtain a plain text editor - there're a lot of them! Just copy/paste your provided talking points out of the .doc into it and it won't translate as rich text when pasted here that needs to be edited later. 😂😂😂

Edited July 24, 2022 by aenemated

[Hankshank]

I  doubt we will see such reactions and such a winner’s interview as that of Richie Ramsay, on the LIV tour. Or?

[bscinstnct]

30 minutes ago, Ghost of Snead said:

 

The comedy of McCord and Feherty is better suited for Wipeout, Dancing with the Stars, or Celebrity Family Feud. 

 

If the goal is to get traction with millennials and gen z

 

MCCord is like having the My Pillow guy open up for Chris Rock

 

🤣

 

Barkley too. He’s not exactly a spring chicken either

 

 

[Llortamaisey]

This video is a few weeks old but it’s always interesting to hear how golf normies view big topics like this one from outside the ropes. 
 

 

[tatertot]

51 minutes ago, MaineMariner said:

 

What's the deal with the font change? Where did you copy and paste the Charles Barkley line from?

Hmmm ... it was corrected, but no word on what the problem stemmed from.

[aenemated]

29 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

If the goal is to get traction with millennials and gen z

 

They're doing it exactly like a buncha old guys would 😂😂😂

 

 

 

[Ghost of Snead]

1 hour ago, Tbone107 said:

*In your opinion. 
 

I don’t see it that way. In my opinion, I think it will be more enjoyable/engaging compared to the 3M broadcast.

 

That’s the beauty of this, we get to choose what we all like and can voice our opinion by what we choose to tune in to. 

 

Enjoy the circus - will it be more enjoyable than some of the PGA Tour's premier events ?