PGL offers DJ, Rose $30 million each (***MERGED***)

[JaNelson38]

9 minutes ago, Frankensteins Monster said:

PGA Tournaments already give appearance fees.

 

No they don't.  Its expressly forbidden.

 

Appearance fees are given to American players to play in many overseas tournaments, but PGA Tour sponsors are not allowed to pay appearance fees to anyone.

[Frankensteins Monster]

Also, TV wise, this is dead on arrival in terms of viewership. Tape delayed, and/or very early morning coverage, is going to pull, at best, LPGA Tour numbers during a PGA Tour major weekend.

[Frankensteins Monster]

2 minutes ago, JaNelson38 said:

 

No they don't.  Its expressly forbidden.

 

Appearance fees are given to American players to play in many overseas tournaments, but PGA Tour sponsors are not allowed to pay appearance fees to anyone.

Appearance "fees" are given to many of the the bigger named players on the PGA Tour.

Edited May 4, 2021 by Frankensteins Monster

[JaNelson38]

11 minutes ago, tiderider said:

i'd think this would be a fairly obvious 'no' for anyone ... Wahhabism isn't a viewpoint you want your money coming from ... maybe they'd donate to the khashoggi foundation ... 

 

Um...take a look at the field for the most recent Saudi International.

 

Money talks.

[bscinstnct]

The offer to Rose is a great deal for Rose assuming he can still play all the majors. I think he still lives in the UK primarily so the travel is less brutal. 
 

DJ? It’s close, maybe, but can he stomach the travel? If it’s just a few times a year and he can play majors, just maybe.

 

But for the guys in the top-10 and under 30. Too much risk vs reward, I imagine. 
 

Let’s say you’re JT. You prolly makin like 20MM a year in endorsements alone. That’s tied to your performance on the PGA Tour. 
 

How would sponsors know that him playing the PGL is going to gain anywhere near as much exposure and TV time?

[MtlJeff]

I think some people might be missing the point --whether this happens or not i'm not even sure matters right now. The fact that it's even being considered to the point that the PGA tour is gonna make threats like they are, and call meetings like they are ---is bad

 

Yes, PGA golfers make a lot of money. But look at other sports right now, the NBA gives players guaranteed contracts. The NFL is starting to do this more. You are starting to see a major backlash against the NCAA for not paying players.

 

The PGA tour markets guys like DJ, Koepka and others, yet they don't get guaranteed money. The tour can put Johnson's face on a poster for a tournament and he can leave that weekend with nothing if he doesn't play well. Meanwhile James Harden can show up to Rockets camp weighing 250lbs and sleepwalk through games for full salary.

 

PGA guys see what is happening in other sports. The whole "influencer" money the tour wants to give out now is basically acknowledging this.

 

The PGA is going to have to figure out a way to get it's top guys more guaranteed money, or eventually something else will come along. It's like iron man 2 with Mickie Rourke, when he attacks iron man at the grand prix....He doesn't get him but when Downey is like "too bad you missed" he responds "Did i?....Blood is now in the water" (russian accent of course).

 

The PGL is Mickie Rourke from Iron Man 2

[Abh159]

3 minutes ago, MtlJeff said:

I think some people might be missing the point --whether this happens or not i'm not even sure matters right now. The fact that it's even being considered to the point that the PGA tour is gonna make threats like they are, and call meetings like they are ---is bad

 

Yes, PGA golfers make a lot of money. But look at other sports right now, the NBA gives players guaranteed contracts. The NFL is starting to do this more. You are starting to see a major backlash against the NCAA for not paying players.

 

The PGA tour markets guys like DJ, Koepka and others, yet they don't get guaranteed money. The tour can put Johnson's face on a poster for a tournament and he can leave that weekend with nothing if he doesn't play well. Meanwhile James Harden can show up to Rockets camp weighing 250lbs and sleepwalk through games for full salary.

 

PGA guys see what is happening in other sports. The whole "influencer" money the tour wants to give out now is basically acknowledging this.

 

The PGA is going to have to figure out a way to get it's top guys more guaranteed money, or eventually something else will come along. It's like iron man 2 with Mickie Rourke, when he attacks iron man at the grand prix....He doesn't get him but when Downey is like "too bad you missed" he responds "Did i?....Blood is now in the water" (russian accent of course).

 

The PGL is Mickie Rourke from Iron Man 2

 

Great points and I don't disagree. The problem though is that I don't believe the PGA Tour would even crack the Top 15 in terms of revenue. Their reported revenue in 2017 was approximately $1.3 billion which puts them at the same level of Nippon Professional Baseball (aka Japanese pro baseball league).  

[JaNelson38]

7 minutes ago, Frankensteins Monster said:

Appearance "fees" are given to many of the the bigger named players on the PGA Tour.

 

 

I'm not talking about things sponsors might give to players, like the courtesy car, paying them to do some sort of pro-am or meet-and-greet, or a free room at the hotel....I'm talking about a true payout to actually play in an event that sponsors don't have to hide behind or classify as some sort of player expense.  It would probably help garner sponsorship dollars if the tour actually let sponsors try and buy players to be in their event.

[the bishop]

9 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

The offer to Rose is a great deal for Rose assuming he can still play all the majors. I think he still lives in the UK primarily so the travel is less brutal. 
 

DJ? It’s close, maybe, but can he stomach the travel? If it’s just a few times a year and he can play majors, just maybe.

 

But for the guys in the top-10 and under 30. Too much risk vs reward, I imagine. 
 

Let’s say you’re JT. You prolly makin like 20MM a year in endorsements alone. That’s tied to your performance on the PGA Tour. 
 

How would sponsors know that him playing the PGL is going to gain anywhere near as much exposure and TV time?

I thought Rose's primary residence was in the Bahamas now?

[MtlJeff]

2 minutes ago, Abh159 said:

 

Great points and I don't disagree. The problem though is that I don't believe the PGA Tour would even crack the Top 15 in terms of revenue. Their reported revenue in 2017 was approximately $1.3 billion which puts them at the same level of Nippon Professional Baseball (aka Japanese pro baseball league).  

 

For sure, i don't think it's realistic for them to expect NFL money. Like Brooks Koepka is not gonna get 50M like Pat Mahomes.

 

I just think eventually they will need to budge on the appearance fee thing. Like maybe give some of these guys 1-2M for showing up at events. Maybe guys can negotiate with the tour the same way Mahomes or Lebron negotiate with their teams. Of course right now there's no competition the way in the NFL there is multiple teams

 

But i think over time something will emerge to compete if they don't take care of their top guys with guaranteed contracts. How mad they are getting here, just going by what i've seen in the business world, is an admission of how worried they are. And if you're worried it's because deep down you know you have a good thing going

[JaNelson38]

26 minutes ago, Abh159 said:

 

 

No, I don't think it's selling out. However, your comparison to other pro sports is applies to oranges. A player may leave a championship team to sign a big contract with a crappy team, but he's still in the same league playing against/with the same players and teams. The PGA / PGL comparison would be more akin to Lebron leaving the Lakers to go play for a Chinese basketball team. 

 

 

My point is that athletes do things for money.  That's the #1 driving goal.  Sure, things like championships and trophies matter, but they matter largely because it makes them more money....whether that be through playing contracts, bigger endorsements, etc.  Other auxillary things like city, lifestyle, etc may matter a little, but in the end its the dollars. 

 

We're going through something like this here in Wisconsin, with Aaron Rodgers and the Packers.  He's pissed because he feels he's not making enough money.  Period.  Has nothing - zero - to do with the team.  He's an MVP, he feels like he's underpaid as he watches all these other QB's get huge contracts, so he wants more money.  The Packers told him no, so now he wants to be traded to a team that will tell him yes.    

 

There's a price tag for everything, and I think if this report is to be believed, the PGL is trying to find out right now what that price tag needs to be to entice players into this.  And all its going to take is just one big name to bite and others will follow, so the PGA Tour and everyone associated (sponsors, networks, etc) will have to take this seriously.

Edited May 4, 2021 by JaNelson38

[Arn]

28 minutes ago, tiderider said:

i'd think this would be a fairly obvious 'no' for anyone ... Wahhabism isn't a viewpoint you want your money coming from ... maybe they'd donate to the khashoggi foundation ... 

Lol! Everyone on tour is wrapped in slaver logos like Ralph Lauren and Nike. You think they give a crap? They want the $$$$$$$ no matter where it comes from.

[Frankensteins Monster]

4 minutes ago, JaNelson38 said:

 

 

I'm not talking about things sponsors might give to players, like the courtesy car, paying them to do some sort of pro-am or meet-and-greet, or a free room at the hotel....I'm talking about a true payout to actually play in an event that sponsors don't have to hide behind or classify as some sort of player expense.  It would probably help garner sponsorship dollars if the tour actually let sponsors try and buy players to be in their event.

You think Bubba and Phil paid for houses at Greenbrier? You think endorsement contracts players have/had with RBC, Rocket Mortgage, AT&T, and the likes don't have built in endorsement fees? You think the top player on the PGA Tour committing to the Travelers in Connecticut are playing there, in the middle of literal nowhere, for just the purse? You think the players are paying for the week resort experiences their wives and children hang out in during a tournament week? The top players on the PGA Tour are handsomely compensated for playing in some tournaments. 

[JaNelson38]

7 minutes ago, Frankensteins Monster said:

You think Bubba and Phil paid for houses at Greenbrier? You think endorsement contracts players have/had with RBC, Rocket Mortgage, AT&T, and the likes don't have built in endorsement fees? You think the top player on the PGA Tour committing to the Travelers in Connecticut are playing there, in the middle of literal nowhere, for just the purse? You think the players are paying for the week resort experiences their wives and children hang out in during a tournament week? The top players on the PGA Tour are handsomely compensated for playing in some tournaments. 

 

You just repeated pretty much everything I said.  I'm not talking about anything endorsement related or related to tournament week expenses like hotel, car, etc.  Everyone knows and understands that endorsment and sponsor deals entail playing in their events.

 

Im talking about a true payout to guys for being in the tournament.  Non-endorsement related.  Players actually being able to negotiate for themselves a fee to appear.  It can be done, and done easily.  And its guaranteed money, regardless of performance.  Every player can have the ability to do it.  Even if its just 5-10K for a mid or lower tier player...that at the least covers the expenses, travel and time for a guy to play in an event, even if he misses the cut.

 

I think you'd see PGA Tour players be perfectly fine with reduced purses and a more condensed schedule if they have the freedom to negotiate appearance fees with sponsors for tournaments.

Edited May 4, 2021 by JaNelson38

[thatbaseballguy22]

My initial thought is that this will be really tough to pull these guys. As mentioned, the endorsement deals for DJ, Phil, Brooks, etc. would likely be lower if they weren't playing in the US full-time. Not to mention the stress and peace of mind from being overseas if you don't want to be there. If you're already at the top making that much money, is the difference worth it? 

For the guys that would be more willing that are "mid-tier" players like Justin Rose or Kevin Kisner or Brendan Steele, they aren't going to command that much money from the league to come over and play. I think the league is probably in a tough spot - and I don't know if it will ultimately work out for them.

[bscinstnct]

12 minutes ago, the bishop said:

I thought Rose's primary residence was in the Bahamas now?

 

Maybe his official for taxes but even Bahamas gets boring. Think he live in London

[Barnacle]

2 hours ago, golfandfishing said:

The human rights issues will not factor in to any player’s decision in the least. Tons of names go play the Saudi events every year in exchange for money, private travel and who knows what else once they arrive. 

Getting pooped on by Billionaire Saudi Princes? 

[Frankensteins Monster]

2 minutes ago, JaNelson38 said:

 

You just repeated pretty much everything I said.  I'm not talking about anything endorsement related or related to tournament week expenses like hotel, car, etc.  Everyone knows and understands that endorsment and sponsor deals entail playing in their events.

 

Im talking about a true payout to guys for being in the tournament.  Non-endorsement related.  Players actually being able to negotiate for themselves a fee to appear.  It can be done, and done easily.  And its guaranteed money, regardless of performance.

 

I think you'd see PGA Tour players be perfectly fine with reduced purses and a more condensed schedule if they have the freedom to negotiate appearance fees with sponsors for tournaments.

I know what you're saying, but I'm also saying that players are getting an appearance fee that skirts around the PGA Tour provision. I'm going to assume, come 2021-2022 season, outright appearance fees will be allowed tour wide.

[MtlJeff]

4 minutes ago, Barnacle said:

Getting pooped on by Billionaire Saudi Princes? 

 

No they won't typically do that

[golfandfishing]

4 minutes ago, Barnacle said:

Getting pooped on by Billionaire Saudi Princes? 

I think anyone garnering an appearance fee is the sender and not the recipient. But yeah, it’s no secret that the Saudi’s live to truck in “influencers” for things like that for their clients. 

[Go Cougs]

4 minutes ago, thatbaseballguy22 said:

My initial thought is that this will be really tough to pull these guys. As mentioned, the endorsement deals for DJ, Phil, Brooks, etc. would likely be lower if they weren't playing in the US full-time. Not to mention the stress and peace of mind from being overseas if you don't want to be there. If you're already at the top making that much money, is the difference worth it? 

For the guys that would be more willing that are "mid-tier" players like Justin Rose or Kevin Kisner or Brendan Steele, they aren't going to command that much money from the league to come over and play. I think the league is probably in a tough spot - and I don't know if it will ultimately work out for them.

Rose when he sees who you've lumped him in with...

[cdnglf]

[cdnglf]

 

Edited May 4, 2021 by cdnglf

[cdnglf]

[cdnglf]

[03trdblack]

3 hours ago, b.helts said:

Paywalls are shyte.

 

Here is an article that is not paywalled.

 

I'll bet that mandatory player's meeting is going to be interesting.

You can also install a chrome extension called, "Quick Javascript Switcher" that will turn off the javascript on the page which is what runs the paywall.  You can read it freely after that.

[tungstenplug]

There are 50 events in the PGA Tour season. How many of those events feature the best players on the Tour? Maybe 15? That is very inefficient

Edited February 26, 2023 by tungstenplug

[bubbagump]

2 hours ago, bladehunter said:

Besides what’s more volatile than Middle East oil money ?  Bitcoin ?  Lol.  Yea. I’d cook my golden goose on a chance that the funding  doesn’t dry up on this lark.  Right.  They wrote a song about this situation.  Titled  .....Dream on.  

 

I don't think this makes the point you are thinking it does.  

[Naptime]

When IRL and CART split open wheel racing in the US went into the crapper for a decade.  Formula 1 seems an afterthought for most Americans, and I don't see ads featuring Lewis Hamilton even though he has clearly dominated F1 for a long time.   But if I imagine a world tour taking all the current top 10 players and a few of the rest, I would still prefer to watch Tiger play against half the top 50 here. 

[cardoustie]

I wonder if players are also tired of the massive head office and employee counts and salaries at PGA Tour headquarters ?