Would DeChambeau have done as well anyway if he hadn't bulked up?

[Dave230]

DeChambeau has had so many different forms since he burst onto the scene, choosing the hulk over the scientist approach. But for all the hype that Bryson was going to change the game forever and dominate, now the dust is settled he's about...as good as he was expected to be anyway?

 

Not saying that DeChambeau isn't a top golfer at the moment. But he was a great golfer before he started tinkering anyway.

 

In 2018, smaller Bryson won 4 times on the PGA Tour in one year, since then he's only won 3 events. The big one was obviously the US Open, which was very impressive, but anyone following DeChambeau's career for a long time would have expected him to win a couple of the US Opens over the course of his career, when he won the NCAA and US Amateur and had a great start to his professional career, his game seemed made for the US Open.

 

For what he gains with his massive distance on drives, he loses in absolute control over his game, which has led to as many meltdowns as great moments (for example, this year's US Open). In 2018, he averaged 305 yards off the tee already, that's plenty long to win most tournaments. Cantlay beat him yesterday with a 302 average. I agree it's a power game on the PGA Tour, but to a point where you can't be a short hitter, once you're within a certain range, it's other parts of the game that really matter. The driving distance does give him that extra firepower to get birdies, but it leads to rounds like the other week when he shoots 9 birdies in a round and finishes level par. Dustin Johnson at his best actually tried to dial back his driving, he could be like Bryson but chooses not to be because he's plenty long enough to score well.

 

In 2018, he was 12th on Tour in Shots Gained Approach, now he's 53rd. Last year he was 119th. So while it's good to be top of the driving stats, if your approaches aren't anywhere near as good, is it really as big of an advantage as it is portrayed? We've seen Morikawa take apart some great courses with only 295 average drives.

 

In 2018, he finished the year 5th in the world rankings. Now he is...7th in the world rankings.

[BrianMcG]

No. A lot of times when someone has a conviction about something, they will be damn sure it pays off. 

 

I find him much more exciting that's for sure.  

 

 

Edited August 30, 2021 by BrianMcG

[KennyP]

I've often wondered how he would go with more standard equipment. Let's not forget he won the US amateur with a fairly standard putter (Edel brick) and putting stroke. Now his putting looks awkward and not that effective. We mustn't forget his side saddle experiment wasn't a success at all.

 

Perhaps a case that he's too smart for his own good? I suspect he'd probably be just as successful without all the nonsense of measuring air density and specific gravity of his golf balls.

 

The weight gain and increase in speed will catch up with him as he gets older and I think he'll have to dial it back.

[MattyO1984]

This is something that we have spoken about whilst out playing. He got it round almost as good as anyone pre-bulk. My conclusion on it all was that his ceiling his higher now than it was before but I am not sure how often his waywardness will allow him to reach those heights for extended periods of time.

[Ferguson]

He made a lifestyle change.    

[toc]

2 hours ago, KennyP said:

 Let's not forget he won the US amateur with a fairly standard putter (Edel brick) and putting stroke. Now his putting looks awkward and not that effective. We mustn't forget his side saddle experiment wasn't a success at all.

 

Agreed his putting stroke looks absolutely awful, no artistic appeal at all.  He's actually a fantastic putter, though.  Consistently top 20 SG putting, even this year where he hasn't been as sharp.  Take yesterday when he missed several putts to win they all looked like he hit his intended lines.

[me05501]

8 minutes ago, toc said:

Agreed his putting stroke looks absolutely awful, no artistic appeal at all.  He's actually a fantastic putter, though.  Consistently top 20 SG putting, even this year where he hasn't been as sharp.  Take yesterday when he missed several putts to win they all looked like he hit his intended lines.

 

I think yesterday probably showed the flaw in his science/measurement-oriented putting strategy. He correctly read a lot of the putts he missed, but he hit them too hard for the line he had chosen. So many of them ended up behind the cup. 

I know that his approach relies heavily on calculating the distance and then making adjustments for slope, turf conditions, etc. You could hear him and his caddy doing some of that math on the putts from off the green. But when it really mattered in the playoff, he seemed too amped up and started putting through his lines. 

 

Seems like letting a little feel back into the process would have been helpful there. Cantlay's approach to putting seemed way more successful under the pressure of the playoff. 

[Ironman_32]

I get your point. I'd say no, mainly because I think everything Bryson is doing now gives him a little more confidence, which is really the key to it all. All these guys are so good and have such high ceilings that the only real difference week to week is having a mental edge. 

 

At much as a lot of people hate to see/admit it, distance it is the key on tour. Look at Dylan Frittelli he increased driving distance this year and said that if you increase your distance by 10 yards, you make a million dollars more a year. Versus someone like Kisner who says he can only compete on certain courses. What Bryson did might not translate into winning immediately and all the time, but it gives him more chances. A lot of stuff Bryson's doing is in response to the 2019 PGA at Bethpage, where it was basically a contest between about 9 guys who had the length and strength to get out of the rough. I think Bryson is trying to put himself in that group of guys. Maybe he should learn how to chip, but that's just my thoughts haha. 

 

We saw this in 1998 with Tiger though, his swing was very across the line in 1997 at that Masters, but he found it that week after the 40 on the front nine. 1998 he wanted to change it to be more consist, so he didn't have the bad weeks when his swing was off. However, I think Bryson is going opposite that in a way, when his swing is on he kills it, but I don't know if its build for week to week consistency; however, staying on Tour isnt build for week to week consistency in a way, so maybe thats the ideal path. 

[wsupjs]

Despite some guys doing it a couple times a year, winning is really hard. It seems like bulk Bryson's floor is way higher than in earlier years of his career, as he's almost always in contention when he keeps his driver on the planet. 

 

Who could say whether or not that type of performance consistency would've happened as his game matured over time. However, relying on tighter approach shots from longer distances is tougher to repeat long term than what he's doing now.

[toc]

19 minutes ago, me05501 said:

 

I think yesterday probably showed the flaw in his science/measurement-oriented putting strategy. He correctly read a lot of the putts he missed, but he hit them too hard for the line he had chosen. So many of them ended up behind the cup. 

I know that his approach relies heavily on calculating the distance and then making adjustments for slope, turf conditions, etc. You could hear him and his caddy doing some of that math on the putts from off the green. But when it really mattered in the playoff, he seemed too amped up and started putting through his lines. 

 

Seems like letting a little feel back into the process would have been helpful there. Cantlay's approach to putting seemed way more successful under the pressure of the playoff. 

Ultimately, yea it was definitely more successful.  Cantlay seemed more nervy, though.  It looked like he was leaving everything short until the last putt.  

[me05501]

2 minutes ago, toc said:

Ultimately, yea it was definitely more successful.  Cantlay seemed more nervy, though.  It looked like he was leaving everything short until the last putt.  

 

Wow, that's an interesting take. From my POV it looked like he was totally in control and he made miles of putts that he had to make, going back to like the 16th in regulation. Leaving a few short doesn't change that (but if he hadn't won I might feel differently, lol). 

[bscinstnct]

BD said his distance gains are much more from “speed training” than bulking up.

 

But I think you’re question is if he would have done as well if he didn’t pursue the huge distance gains. 
 

And you share a great summary of his success before and after the new strategy. 
 

I guess the jury is still out but if he puts together a whole repertoire to include greenside game with his driving and putting, he’s going to be the guy to beat. 

[gvogel]

29 minutes ago, me05501 said:

 

Wow, that's an interesting take. From my POV it looked like he was totally in control and he made miles of putts that he had to make, going back to like the 16th in regulation. Leaving a few short doesn't change that (but if he hadn't won I might feel differently, lol). 

I watched a lot of the golf yesterday - more than usual - and Cantlay may have had the best putting day of anyone, ever.   And that includes Tiger.

[me05501]

As for the original question, it seems like some people respond well to making a project out of improvement. They chart a course toward their goals and follow it step by step. I think that's the type Bryson is. He conceived a style of play he wanted to pursue, and viewed transforming his body as an integral part of that.

 

My guess is that a lot of guys trying to make it on Tour are also keen to fit in with the status quo there. There's a certain range of behaviors that are acceptable on the practice tee, in the clubhouse and on the course and it's much easier to conform to those standards than to try to bend them. 

It took some guts for Bryson to decide to approach the practice tee totally differently, to have his GC Quad and his coach or trainer out there for every session and to kind of put on a show even while a lot of guys are just warming up. And that's just one of the things we see. We don't know if he's also coming into the fitness trailer with his body coach and grunting and throwing around a bunch of iron like he does on Instagram. We don't know how he acts in the clubhouse or whatever. But it seems like he decided that improving his game was more important than making friends, and I guess I have to respect that. 

[cwilk]

He  didn't pick Hulk over Scientist.  He went with both.

 

[bladehunter]

25 minutes ago, gvogel said:

I watched a lot of the golf yesterday - more than usual - and Cantlay may have had the best putting day of anyone, ever.   And that includes Tiger.

He technically did I think. Best putting round since whne stats started. 

[gvogel]

17 minutes ago, me05501 said:

As for the original question, it seems like some people respond well to making a project out of improvement. They chart a course toward their goals and follow it step by step. I think that's the type Bryson is. He conceived a style of play he wanted to pursue, and viewed transforming his body as an integral part of that.

 

My guess is that a lot of guys trying to make it on Tour are also keen to fit in with the status quo there. There's a certain range of behaviors that are acceptable on the practice tee, in the clubhouse and on the course and it's much easier to conform to those standards than to try to bend them. 

It took some guts for Bryson to decide to approach the practice tee totally differently, to have his GC Quad and his coach or trainer out there for every session and to kind of put on a show even while a lot of guys are just warming up. And that's just one of the things we see. We don't know if he's also coming into the fitness trailer with his body coach and grunting and throwing around a bunch of iron like he does on Instagram. We don't know how he acts in the clubhouse or whatever. But it seems like he decided that improving his game was more important than making friends, and I guess I have to respect that. 

I don't think that his practice routine, or his putting routine, or even his gym routine have anything to do with why he might not be accepted.

 

I think that it starts with his attitude (he knows everything, he's the smartest guy in the room), extends to his slow play (consulting a compass?), and then the times that he demeans a rules official or a camera man (ruined his BRAND).  Anecdotally, Bryson is a guy who has been mean to fans.  He got so upset at Pebble that he knocked his head against a spectator stand.  For all who like watching him play golf, I think that you would have a hard time taking him on a day to day basis.

[PorkChopExpress]

Looks like he’s not bulking as much as before

hes leaning out

[me05501]

7 minutes ago, gvogel said:

I don't think that his practice routine, or his putting routine, or even his gym routine have anything to do with why he might not be accepted.

 

I think that it starts with his attitude (he knows everything, he's the smartest guy in the room), extends to his slow play (consulting a compass?), and then the times that he demeans a rules official or a camera man (ruined his BRAND).  Anecdotally, Bryson is a guy who has been mean to fans.  He got so upset at Pebble that he knocked his head against a spectator stand.  For all who like watching him play golf, I think that you would have a hard time taking him on a day to day basis.

 

I agree with all that. He has probably called in an official for more stupid ruling requests than any other player out there. It's obnoxious. 

[CasualLie]

At the moment it may appear the bulking up is making him worse, but it's a small data point, can't really compare.  He has shifted strategies and it gives him an advantage on some courses, others not so much.  Over time, if he stays healthy, then obviously he gets more wins with the added distance.

 

What's really holding him back is chipping / pitching.  He's probably trying his damnest to get all scientific on that too when the answer is more in creativity.  That little chip on 17 in regulation after Patty Ice put in the water was one of the worse chips I have ever seen in that sort of situation.  Way too much thinking for a shot that should have been automatic.

 

With all the analysis he does, he has to know, if he's going to go all out with speed and therefore accuracy will suffer, then he is going to have some awkward pitches.  I just don't know if he will ever figure it out.  Look at the bunker shot Sergio hit on 18.  That's decades of feel/experience paying off in a high pressure moment.  BDC has a long way to go to get to that level.

 

 

[farmer]

It is possible that Bryson bulked up so his body could hold up to his new swing.  The huge grips and single length hurts him in the scoring clubs and around the green.  It has to be incredibly awkward chipping with a 6 iron.

[SkiSchoolPro]

31 minutes ago, farmer said:

It is possible that Bryson bulked up so his body could hold up to his new swing.  The huge grips and single length hurts him in the scoring clubs and around the green.  It has to be incredibly awkward chipping with a 6 iron.

He's already got 4 or 5 different length clubs in the bag- https://www.golfwrx.com/659626/bryson-dechambeau-whats-in-the-bag-witb-2021-august/

 

If he hasn't tried it already, I agree that he should try a set with his wedges (and maybe 9i) at something like 35.5"

[Golfnutgalen]

2 hours ago, bladehunter said:

He technically did I think. Best putting round since whne stats started. 

 

I'm not sure about the historical stats, but for the week he averaged +3.644 per round. I don't recall ever seeing a number like that. I mean Cameron Smith averaged +3.167 for his one round of 18 putts earlier this year and +1.534 for that week. Bryson also putted phenomenally well this week at +2.34 per round (2nd in the field), but over the course of 4 rounds that's still giving up more than 5 strokes to Cantlay.

[Tasals]

37 minutes ago, Golfnutgalen said:

 

I'm not sure about the historical stats, but for the week he averaged +3.644 per round. I don't recall ever seeing a number like that. I mean Cameron Smith averaged +3.167 for his one round of 18 putts earlier this year and +1.534 for that week. Bryson also putted phenomenally well this week at +2.34 per round (2nd in the field), but over the course of 4 rounds that's still giving up more than 5 strokes to Cantlay.

Cantlay had a total of +14.577 strokes gained putting. Made 537.5' of putts over the course of the tournament, was perfect inside of 5' making 41/41 putts. This is with a putter he has had in the bag since Wednesday of last week.

 

https://golf.com/instruction/putting/simple-putting-trick-patrick-cantlay-historically-good-bmw/

[PappyVanWinkle53]

3 hours ago, bladehunter said:

He technically did I think. Best putting round since whne stats started. 

I don't think I've ever seen someone drop so many critical putts....it was amazing to watch.  It was also neat to see how he and Bryson took very different approaches to playing the golf course this week....

[MattM97]

5 hours ago, toc said:

Agreed his putting stroke looks absolutely awful, no artistic appeal at all.  He's actually a fantastic putter, though.  Consistently top 20 SG putting, even this year where he hasn't been as sharp.  Take yesterday when he missed several putts to win they all looked like he hit his intended lines.

 

To be fair everything he's doing is taking any "artistic appeal" out of his game and just going with being as repeatable as possible which makes things almost robotic. It's not appealing to us but it's his lively hood he's playing for and I'd do what I can to make more money in my job. 

[Superfast2.0]

Like someone else said, it seems like his floor is probably higher now than it was before. And he probably wasn't hitting it so far offline before like he can do now, but it obviously helps that now if he misses a fairway he's got 9i in instead of maybe 6i-7i before he bulked up.

[chigolfer1]

9 hours ago, Dave230 said:

DeChambeau has had so many different forms since he burst onto the scene, choosing the hulk over the scientist approach. But for all the hype that Bryson was going to change the game forever and dominate, now the dust is settled he's about...as good as he was expected to be anyway?

 

Not saying that DeChambeau isn't a top golfer at the moment. But he was a great golfer before he started tinkering anyway.

 

In 2018, smaller Bryson won 4 times on the PGA Tour in one year, since then he's only won 3 events. The big one was obviously the US Open, which was very impressive, but anyone following DeChambeau's career for a long time would have expected him to win a couple of the US Opens over the course of his career, when he won the NCAA and US Amateur and had a great start to his professional career, his game seemed made for the US Open.

 

For what he gains with his massive distance on drives, he loses in absolute control over his game, which has led to as many meltdowns as great moments (for example, this year's US Open). In 2018, he averaged 305 yards off the tee already, that's plenty long to win most tournaments. Cantlay beat him yesterday with a 302 average. I agree it's a power game on the PGA Tour, but to a point where you can't be a short hitter, once you're within a certain range, it's other parts of the game that really matter. The driving distance does give him that extra firepower to get birdies, but it leads to rounds like the other week when he shoots 9 birdies in a round and finishes level par. Dustin Johnson at his best actually tried to dial back his driving, he could be like Bryson but chooses not to be because he's plenty long enough to score well.

 

In 2018, he was 12th on Tour in Shots Gained Approach, now he's 53rd. Last year he was 119th. So while it's good to be top of the driving stats, if your approaches aren't anywhere near as good, is it really as big of an advantage as it is portrayed? We've seen Morikawa take apart some great courses with only 295 average drives.

 

In 2018, he finished the year 5th in the world rankings. Now he is...7th in the world rankings.

 

That stroke gains on approach shots is interesting.   Is it only measured on par 4s?  To your point, if he's hitting it way farther (and closer to the hole) than before, how has that stat gotten so middling.  Where is he getting his strokes?   Mostly by destroying every par 5?

[TiScape]

11 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

BD said his distance gains are much more from “speed training” than bulking up.

 

But I think you’re question is if he would have done as well if he didn’t pursue the huge distance gains. 
 

And you share a great summary of his success before and after the new strategy. 
 

I guess the jury is still out but if he puts together a whole repertoire to include green side game with his driving and putting, he’s going to be the guy to beat. 

Absolutely. And based on what he has shown us so far, I wouldn’t bet against that happening. 

[bscinstnct]

42 minutes ago, TiScape said:

Absolutely. And based on what he has shown us so far, I wouldn’t bet against that happening. 

 

I think BD could assess his arsenal at this point and start to look at how to have a more well rounded game. 
 

His driving and putting are lethal but he needs more dimensions. More shots. 
 

I wish TW would take him under his wing and advise him on how to see a course from the viewpoints of someone who can hit it far and putt, but has finesse and patience as well. And then work on the wedge game with the same obsession that he remade his driving with.

 

BD added 20 yards to his average drive in two years. Thats unheard of. If he attacks his short game with the same obsession, he could develop a game that’s untouchable.