Have Irons Really gotten better over the past 20 years?

[RoyalMustang]

Just for fun, I took my Ping Eye 2's out to the course yesterday (range actually) and spent some time with the 6 iron and 9 iron (KT-M shafts).  These are nice clubs!  Big sweet spot, nice balanced feel.  The ball fight was a bit more penetrating than my regular clubs, a Mizuno MMC MP20, but I could totally play them and probably do just as well (let's assume that I have adjusted the gap differences in my head: the 9-iron PE2 is the same distance wise as my 46 degree PW). 

 

Now, I know drivers have gotten materially better, but what about irons?  Certainly they look better, as the PE2 is just butt ugly, but in terms of performance?  

[MattM97]

If you're hitting center of the face every time maybe, maybe not. But for miss hits I think modern irons are miles ahead, look at the Titleist T-Series irons with their weighting, a toe or heel shot will be much better than the Eye2's. 

 

But that's the great thing with modern irons there is something for everyone. I'm just using Titleist as an example but you can get a T100 if you want small but forgiving, or if you don't want the tech have the CB line and if you're a full traditionalist the MB's and every other option in between with their offerings and the same for basically any other brand. 

[Davidv]

I agree with MattM97 ^^^^^

[Catrick_Pantlay]

16 minutes ago, RoyalMustang said:

Just for fun, I took my Ping Eye 2's out to the course yesterday (range actually) and spent some time with the 6 iron and 9 iron (KT-M shafts).  These are nice clubs!  Big sweet spot, nice balanced feel.  The ball fight was a bit more penetrating than my regular clubs, a Mizuno MMC MP20, but I could totally play them and probably do just as well (let's assume that I have adjusted the gap differences in my head: the 9-iron PE2 is the same distance wise as my 46 degree PW). 

 

Now, I know drivers have gotten materially better, but what about irons?  Certainly they look better, as the PE2 is just butt ugly, but in terms of performance?  

Tighter manufacturing tolerances, better materials in terms of performance maybe.

 

I don't know sh*t about f*ck

[btyh]

If your irons already have tungsten in it then no. Otherwise only difference is the iron lofts are getting stronger. Pw have gone to a 48 to a 43 in some cases 

[jvincent]

What's your definition of "better"?

 

Certainly there are more multi-material designs out today that have different weight distributions than irons of 20 years ago.

 

Thin face, hollow body irons didn't exist 20 years ago either. Again, that may or may not be better for everyone.

 

Certainly today there are arguably more options available in terms of design options.

[Drivingrangehero]

I would say no. 
 

I have a set of HMB’s and a set of MP-37’s. 
 

if I’m striking the ball well, there isn’t any difference, if I’m striking the ball poorly the HMB’s punish you less…… so why say no 🤔 The HMB’s are a different class of iron. If I were to compared the HMB’s to a past forgiving game improvement type iron, I doubt there would be much of a difference. if I were to compare the MP-37’s to MP-20’s, I’d say the difference boils down to player preference with aesthetics and loft ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

Edited October 22, 2021 by Drivingrangehero
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[kiwihacker]

22 minutes ago, MattM97 said:

If you're hitting center of the face every time maybe, maybe not. But for miss hits I think modern irons are miles ahead, look at the Titleist T-Series irons with their weighting, a toe or heel shot will be much better than the Eye2's. 

 

But that's the great thing with modern irons there is something for everyone. I'm just using Titleist as an example but you can get a T100 if you want small but forgiving, or if you don't want the tech have the CB line and if you're a full traditionalist the MB's and every other option in between with their offerings and the same for basically any other brand. 

Agree with all of this. Even a more recent example my new Srixon ZX5 irons are way more forgiving than my old 2006 R7 TP irons. I thought the R7 TP were pretty forgiving but these ZX5 irons are on another level in terms of forgiveness. Modern shafts must factor in too. 

[rsballer10]

Not really. There is only so much mass you can move around in a club that small. Putting tungsten in players irons has incrementally increased forgiveness. I think the fitting options have become exponentially greater however. 

[golfpramparo]

For me yes, there is new technology that helps the average player with miss hits and launching the ball higher...

The hollow body design is something  that really helps with forgiveness while maintaining a good *fake?* feel.    

[j_murphy]

Yes, if not Tour Players would be using more 20+ year old clubs

[PJE]

I think for some players, today's irons are better:

• For players who hit out on the toe, game improvement irons of today are superior than irons of yesteryear.
• For players who don't take a divot or a little divot, the cavity back, wide sole, low COG game improvement irons are better today than in the past.
• For players who want blades but still want to take advantage of some forgiveness, the player's distance category is a good thing. 

 

[Red4282]

The answer is a hard no. Some mentions of tungsten making a difference… well tungsten was in irons 20 years ago as well. Probably the biggest difference is the refinement of the low handicap clubs. The hollow thinner/hotter faces (which has drawbacks as well as benefits) and putting tungsten  into clubs that appeal to better players. But better? Nah

[Jeff58]

Agree with Mr. @PJE. The question is really for whom have they gotten better.

 

For the high cap struggling beginner, ultra game improvement irons are a complete disaster. Going further with less spin and a sole area that does nothing but bounce is literally the worst combination imaginable. The Eye2’s were and are a brilliant solution.

 

The “most helped” group is me. Getting older but fairly skilled. 8 iron was the 150 club, but it’s become the 7 iron. Sad 😞. Buy P790’s. Now it’s the 8 iron again 😀. Instant rejuvenation.

[NRJyzr]

2 hours ago, MattM97 said:

But for miss hits I think modern irons are miles ahead,

 

They really aren't, with a fairly notable exception.  MOI's are still fairly static, CG's aren't lower in spite of being advertised as such....  anything you find in a modern iron was available 20-30+ years ago.

 

Except...

 

Beginning with the Ping G410 and G700, we finally have seen irons with forgiveness levels not seen before.  Even the G400 was only marginally more forgiving than a Zing.  These newest Pings reach an MOI in excess of a SLDR driver.

 

Which is incredible.  An iron with an MOI higher than a 460cc driver...

 

Edited October 22, 2021 by NRJyzr

[RoyalMustang]

1 hour ago, j_murphy said:

Yes, if not Tour Players would be using more 20+ year old clubs

 

As long as performance of newer clubs isn't worse  than current clubs, pros would use the newer clubs, right?  After all, they are paid to do so.  

[jholz]

Like anything else, I think irons of all types have improved over the last 20 years. 

 

Year to year the improvements are subtle typically, with big breakthroughs here and there. Twenty years is enough to show significant improvements. Take Ping for example. In 2001, the i3 Blades were their better player's club. Compare it to the i210.

 

I'd argue the i210 offers a much more refined and appealing product. Lots of progress in terms of manufacturing and design. 

 

Now, could I shoot the same scores with i3 Blades and i210s? Sure. But who cares?

[mogc60]

Are they better, my answer is yes. How much better….it’s minimal at best, but they have improved. To me the iron soles are much improved and more forgiving. Cog control is better which results in slightly better performance on poor strikes. Is it a huge difference, no. The players cb category is saturated now with outstanding irons. This was not the case 20 years ago. We have every possible configuration now and an iron for any performance you are looking for. 

[braincramp52]

That would be a hard Yes!

[eht8266]

The real surprise is that these 20 year old clubs are still performing well. That's pretty cool - Mizz mp32 and mp33s! However - I'm going to use my 921 jpx hmp stix for now.

[bobfoster]

IMO, they have gotten better, but in more subtle ways than drivers and FWs.

 

I think the aim of development is different. (Very simplistically), with drivers, optimizing the trade-off between distance and dispersion is the goal. With irons, it is the trade-off between workability and forgiveness. 

 

I think OEMs have improved both. There's been almost an explosion of experimentation with new materials and clubhead designs, some purely cosmetic, but others (at least in my experience) definitely affect the scorecard.

[morgan1819]

Yes, they are clearly better for certain golfers.

There are great irons from 20 years ago.  And you could likely score as well with them in most cases, so that may be a different conversation.

 

But I really like the attention that is now given to bounce, feel, forgiveness ... and the progressive nature going from more GI oriented in the long irons, to smaller profile in the short irons, all in one set.

 

True, these are not huge differences that affect everyone ... moreso subtle improvements that allow some of us to have a better fit and more enjoyment.

[cgasucks]

I started playing this game 20 years ago and seen how irons have evolved during that span.  From my observations:

 

Players Blades and CBs - Very little has changed.  You can only forge a billet of carbon steel into so many shapes with little change of ball speed and distance for a certain loft (which has changed very little in 20 years...maybe 2-3 degrees strong at most).  48d PW were the norm back then..but I see that they're now 46d in most cases.  

 

GI and SGI irons - A lot has changed there are more multi-materials in those clubs than when I started resulting in greater forgiveness.  What really changed were the lofts.  20 years ago, the lofts of GI and SGI irons where the same as their players' counterparts.  Now the lofts are stronger by at least 2 clubs now (sometimes 3).  So a 5 iron or even a 4 iron back then is now a 7 iron today.

Edited October 22, 2021 by cgasucks

[bladehunter]

2 hours ago, RoyalMustang said:

 

As long as performance of newer clubs isn't worse  than current clubs, pros would use the newer clubs, right?  After all, they are paid to do so.  

Right that’s important to remember. They’re paid to play the new ones.  Super stars sometimes get away with old stuff. But they’ll pressure players to get the new stuff in the bag.  Look no further than DJ or Rory. Both expressed struggles getting a sim 2 head to work.  But they kept trying and eventually got something suitable.  Would have been much smarter and easier to just keep hitting the sim 1.  

[ShowMe]

Irons have gotten better at maintaining ball speed on off-center hits.  That's probably the biggest improvement.

[RCGA]

There's no noticeable difference between the TaylorMade RAC TP (2005) irons and the P7MC (2020) 15 years later.

 

It's the same foundation with some refreshed graphics.

 

There's some 2008 RAC TP irons (Japan edition) that look almost exactly the same 2020 P7MCs.

Edited October 23, 2021 by RCGA

[launcher]

Irons have improved, but I don't think the innovative improvements have translated into better. It's more the last 10 years that things have stagnated. 

 

I would look at the flex face designs that are popular now. Irons are now marketed like drivers, for distance. Irons are scoring clubs, not to hit for distance. The flex face design when screwed definitely go further. A lot further. Off centre strikes, result in inconsistent distances though. I don't see how this helps a player play better. 

 

For me, anything that's a good fit over the last 10 or so years, will be good for ones game, and save considerable dollars. 

[Esox]

This set of T300's are the first game improvement irons I have ever had, so I can't comment there. But as to players clubs, I have hit any number of newer forgings and see no real improvement over the early 90's Yonex ADX tours I played for years and years. I still have the full set 3-10, PW,SW, and nothing made now compares in feel. Wish my swing were still consistent enough to still score with them.

[bladehunter]

3 hours ago, launcher said:

Irons have improved, but I don't think the innovative improvements have translated into better. It's more the last 10 years that things have stagnated. 

 

I would look at the flex face designs that are popular now. Irons are now marketed like drivers, for distance. Irons are scoring clubs, not to hit for distance. The flex face design when screwed definitely go further. A lot further. Off centre strikes, result in inconsistent distances though. I don't see how this helps a player play better. 

 

For me, anything that's a good fit over the last 10 or so years, will be good for ones game, and save considerable dollars. 

Exactly.  Tech has “ advanced “.  To call it “better “ is purely a perspective thing.  

[Red4282]

On 10/22/2021 at 6:47 PM, ShowMe said:

Irons have gotten better at maintaining ball speed on off-center hits.  That's probably the biggest improvement.

Which creates a wider dispersion, so not really an improvement.