Can a legit scratch golfer with an professional athletic background beat a 50 something retired LPGA pro?

[farmer]

Due to the vagaries of the hdcp system, "scratch" does not mean a guy who brings it in around par every day.  Throwing out 10 of the worst scores out of 20 rounds covers a multitude of sins.  If Annika's game is in reasonably good order, the answer would be "no".

[Obee]

11 minutes ago, Obee said:

Yes I have. 
 

A real scratch, meaning somebody who averages scratch for a whole year, has a chance for one round for sure.

 

Played the number 80 player in the world several years ago. I shot 73 from 6950. She shot 72 from 6600. It's definitely doable. Those who don't think it can happen are the same ones who were certain that Steph Curry would have zero chance of hanging with the tour pros in a web.com event, which he was able to do -- for one round. Now of course he is also capable of absolutely crapping the bed and shooting 86/84.

 

As a reminder, Curry is merely a scratch golfer -- not some "super am" who plays off a +4 or +5 (there are plenty of those, too).

 

https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2018/08/09/steph-curry-continues-to-impress-fires-astounding-71-at-web-com-tour-event/

[m d g]

4 hours ago, Hawkeye77 said:

I care about watching Annika

Maybe she just has a great PR team, but she has always struck me as a very nice person. And for that reason I root for her to do well, even though I'm sure she doesn't need the help : )

[Obee]

3 minutes ago, farmer said:

Due to the vagaries of the hdcp system, "scratch" does not mean a guy who brings it in around par every day.  Throwing out 10 of the worst scores out of 20 rounds covers a multitude of sins.  If Annika's game is in reasonably good order, the answer would be "no".

 

Yes, that's the thing with handicaps. Lots of guys around scratch have really bad "anti-caps," (their worst 12 of their last 20). Scratch guys that are steady and shoot in a relatively narrow range have a much better chance, statistically, of tying/beating a female pro.

 

I'm a firm "probably no" on this one, but all the scratch has to do is have a solid round line up with a mediocre one from a pro for it to happen. It's not like it's a super long shot.  Lots depends on who the scratch player is.

[Obee]

4 minutes ago, m d g said:

Maybe she just has a great PR team, but she has always struck me as a very nice person. And for that reason I root for her to do well, even though I'm sure she doesn't need the help : )

 

Met her at a charity business golf outing 7 or 8 years ago. She is a very nice, genuine person.

[tacklingdummy]

25 minutes ago, farmer said:

Due to the vagaries of the hdcp system, "scratch" does not mean a guy who brings it in around par every day.  Throwing out 10 of the worst scores out of 20 rounds covers a multitude of sins.  If Annika's game is in reasonably good order, the answer would be "no".

 

Exactly. That is why I think the handicap system should be changed to average score. Then the majority of scores will be close to average score rather than statistically only 1 in 4 scores at a player's handicap or better. Players with same handicap could be at very different levels if one player is very consistent and has very little fluctuations in scores, whereas if another player is very streaky and has a wide range of scores. Average score would get rid of the variance between those two type of players (and everything in between) and both would be measured at a different bracket. Many say that handicap system is to get rid of sandbaggers and supposed to be geared toward a player's potential, but average score is an accurate metric over time which is why all the tours use that metric. 

Edited January 23, 2022 by tacklingdummy

[brutus27]

WTF is she doing in the “celebrity” tournament. She’s a pro, has she no pride. 

[nikeblades00]

25 minutes ago, farmer said:

Due to the vagaries of the hdcp system, "scratch" does not mean a guy who brings it in around par every day.  Throwing out 10 of the worst scores out of 20 rounds covers a multitude of sins.  If Annika's game is in reasonably good order, the answer would be "no".

This is obviously what it comes down to is her game in 'good working order'? This determines the answer.

[Justsomeguy]

10 minutes ago, brutus27 said:

WTF is she doing in the “celebrity” tournament. She’s a pro, has she no pride. 

Appearance. Fee.

[m d g]

53 minutes ago, tacklingdummy said:

Exactly. That is why I think the handicap system should be changed to average score. Then the majority of scores will be close to average score rather than statistically only 1 in 4 scores at a player's handicap or better.

What I know about the handicap system would fit on the head of a pin.

 

But I do know that it is very difficult to shoot your handicap.

 

If I tell someone I'm a 7 index they expect me to shoot in the 70s. I do shoot in the 70s on occasion, but it's usually 80-83...

[m d g]

53 minutes ago, brutus27 said:

WTF is she doing in the “celebrity” tournament. She’s a pro, has she no pride. 

 

45 minutes ago, Justsomeguy said:

Appearance. Fee.

If you're speaking of Annika, I doubt she needs the money.

 

I'm assuming it's because of a sponsor relationship or as a favor to someone. Or she just likes to play once in a while...

[Hawkeye77]

58 minutes ago, brutus27 said:

WTF is she doing in the “celebrity” tournament. She’s a pro, has she no pride. 

Her home course, she's a draw, helping an LPGA event, being an inspiration for the kids out there and an ambassador for the sport -- so you probably shouldn't take any pride in not getting that? 

Edited January 23, 2022 by Hawkeye77

[Hawkeye77]

Bet she's darn proud of that putt, as anyone would be!

 

[capking]

Could Smylie Kaufman beat Annika right now should be the question 

[straightshot7]

It would be great to see a link to what the heck you guys are talking about.

 

I guess I will have to use Google. 

Edit:

 

I think this is the tournament you're referring to? But Annika is in the celebrity portion?

https://www.lakenona.club/hgv-toc-lpga/

https://www.golfchannel.com/news/lake-nona-resident-annika-sorenstam-opens-lead-tocs-celebrity-division

They picked a great picture of Ko for the website. Looks like her breakfast burrito just hit mid swing:

 

Edited January 23, 2022 by straightshot7

[BB28403]

23 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

Her home course, she's a draw, helping an LPGA event, being an inspiration for the kids out there and an ambassador for the sport -- so you probably shouldn't take any pride in not getting that? 

I read her book last year and was searching around.  You know you read a book and think “where are they now?”.  So you get to googling!  At the time Annika was very not active, I guess she was raising her family and living off her stashed away dollars.  
her kids prob got active in sports and their friends, so she thought: “Hey, I can train again!”.  Prob made some calls, to see the interest level.  The LPGA always needs boosts to the sport.  I love all the South Korean players, but tbh certain age groups do not know who they are.  South Korea is a very democratic country like ours and they love their golf, but they just don’t draw us so well.  Soooo… Annika is back!

[golfandfishing]

How did this end up?

[ThinkingPlus]

5 minutes ago, golfandfishing said:

How did this end up?

If you tune to GC, you can watch in real time.

[brutus27]

40 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

Her home course, she's a draw, helping an LPGA event, being an inspiration for the kids out there and an ambassador for the sport -- so you probably shouldn't take any pride in not getting that? 

Yeah, big draw, huge crowds at the event… Or at any LPGA event for that matter. Still don’t get it. Thanks for your explanation though.

[golfandfishing]

Just now, ThinkingPlus said:

If you tune to GC, you can watch in real time.

At the park with my son. He’s on the swings and made buddies with another kid so I’m in the shade at the moment.  WRX seemed like a good distraction for a few minutes, but I hear the ice cream truck in the neighborhood behind us so I’m almost out of time to dawdle. 

[TiScape]

46 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

Her home course, she's a draw, helping an LPGA event, being an inspiration for the kids out there and an ambassador for the sport -- so you probably shouldn't take any pride in not getting that? 

[Hawkeye77]

25 minutes ago, BB28403 said:

I read her book last year and was searching around.  You know you read a book and think “where are they now?”.  So you get to googling!  At the time Annika was very not active, I guess she was raising her family and living off her stashed away dollars.  
her kids prob got active in sports and their friends, so she thought: “Hey, I can train again!”.  Prob made some calls, to see the interest level.  The LPGA always needs boosts to the sport.  I love all the South Korean players, but tbh certain age groups do not know who they are.  South Korea is a very democratic country like ours and they love their golf, but they just don’t draw us so well.  Soooo… Annika is back!

Haha, I think they are calling her!  She's played a few events the past few years, seems like mostly for fun but I'm sure she enjoys being out there.

[LukeDonaldsTiger]

2 hours ago, Obee said:

 

Met her at a charity business golf outing 7 or 8 years ago. She is a very nice, genuine person.

She’s the Nicklas Lidstrom of golf. Unassuming looking swing that fools the inexperienced viewer, highly efficient mechanics and a killer instinct. Wearing down opponents with repetitive solidity. Also, she’s got a gentle, likable personality. Swedes, man. 
 
I have huge respect for her and would love to have even a smidgen of her talent. 

[Justsomeguy]

1 hour ago, m d g said:

 

If you're speaking of Annika, I doubt she needs the money.

 

I'm assuming it's because of a sponsor relationship or as a favor to someone. Or she just likes to play once in a while...

To quote Danny Devito in the movie Heist, "Everybody needs money. That's why they call it money."

Staying in business or employment past the point of the ability to retire is part of the function of staying relevant too.

But unless your net worth is north of $100m, you're going to still need money. Even then, part of it is keeping score.

[mizuno player]

2 hours ago, Obee said:

 

Yes, that's the thing with handicaps. Lots of guys around scratch have really bad "anti-caps," (their worst 12 of their last 20). Scratch guys that are steady and shoot in a relatively narrow range have a much better chance, statistically, of tying/beating a female pro.

 

I'm a firm "probably no" on this one, but all the scratch has to do is have a solid round line up with a mediocre one from a pro for it to happen. It's not like it's a super long shot.  Lots depends on who the scratch player is.

That's me Obie. Not consistent. My cap stays low because I throw in some low rounds to off set my stupid high ones. At my age Im running out of time for tournament golf. The next couple years I'm going to press and try and qualify for fairly major AM event. Figure one qualifying round anything can happen!!! 

[m d g]

Btw, I had to look up Derek Lowe as I'd heard the name but wasn't sure who he was.

 

He's listed as 6'6" and 230lbs when he pitched. He looked to be at least 60 yards longer than Annika off the tee and maybe more.

 

I think she beats him handily on a par 3 course, but sometimes length like that is just too much to give up...

[m d g]

15 minutes ago, Justsomeguy said:

But unless your net worth is north of $100m, you're going to still need money.

Really? If you can't live very well with a fraction of that then you're doing it wrong.

[PracticeSwinger]

20 hours ago, Yuck said:

I guess we will find out on national TV Sunday.  We have several tournament experienced scratch, Male, ex pro athletes playing the same tees and conditions as a retired 51 year old LPGA pro.  Playing at 6600 yards or so, cold conditions, tough greens.  Could be interesting. Watching this unfold makes me wonder how the “Can a 4 handicap…” thread ever even existed.

I guess it’s pretty even…

[Obee]

Derek Lowe is a solid. Just watched him play. The guy can golf his ball. He's currently a 0.2 index with an LI of +2.0

 

He just tied Annika Sörenstam over 3 full rounds of golf on a course with tour-fast greens.

[m d g]

3 minutes ago, Obee said:

He just tied Annika Sörenstam over 3 full rounds of golf on a course with tour-fast greens.

Maybe it's a great course and maybe the greens are fast, but it looks like a muni on TV...