Letting a group play through

[Girevik]

9 hours ago, Jvoom30 said:

I do not know I left after 4 holes. I presented the question and appreciate the response.

 

However, I do not understand why so many ppl agree that a twosome who was trying to essentially bumrush off the first tee and take calls when we were hitting just gets a pass. 
 

For those who have not seen an on deck spot is it the norm that you just park your cart right behind the group in front of you while they are teeing off. Then take calls. 
 

Again I appreciate the response and I have learned my lesson.

Your question was not "was the other group out of line", it was "should we have let them play through".  So that was the question answered:  yes.

 

Was the other group a bit aggressive in trying to get ahead?  Perhaps.  But if someone is rude you have two choices; deal with and move on with your life or retaliate.  Often retaliation leads to escalation and things just get worse from there.  Sometimes it's best to swallow your pride, ignore an a-hole, and move on with your life.

 

One thing maybe wasn't clear the first time I read your post.  Was this hole number #1, or the first hole they caught up on you?  If it was the first tee then you ABSOLOUTELY let the twosome go first on a slow day.  Complete no brainer.  If there was a starter there he probably would have asked you to allow them to go.  I'd WANT them to go.  I hate having people wait on me even more that I hate waiting on someone holding me up.

Edited June 3, 2022 by Girevik

[Hawkeye77]

9 hours ago, Jvoom30 said:

I do not know I left after 4 holes. I presented the question and appreciate the response.

 

However, I do not understand why so many ppl agree that a twosome who was trying to essentially bumrush off the first tee and take calls when we were hitting just gets a pass. 
 

For those who have not seen an on deck spot is it the norm that you just park your cart right behind the group in front of you while they are teeing off. Then take calls. 
 

Again I appreciate the response and I have learned my lesson.

 

The lesson I think you aren't learning is even though they may have been dopes for pulling up and one guy using the phone may have been a little rude or just clueless, whether they really are dopes (not so sure on that) or the greatest guys in the world, better to face the issue of a twosome that will be right behind you as soon as possible.  If the course wasn't busy and open in front of me, I'd be happy to deal with the twosome on the first tee rather than all the playing through stuff later.  It's this simple, "Hey guys, if you are going to be playing quicker than our group you are welcome to go ahead." (Or something like that).  I've had folks wave off the invitation because they know they aren't going to be faster or just don't care to go ahead, so they had an opportunity.  No point worrying about someone on your tail if you don't have to.

 

Tee sheet pretty full, course ahead of you busy, they have their slot, your have yours and that's life -- I definitely don't believe in a single or twosome thinking they will show up when the course is booked solid and thinking they will play their way through everyone on the course, but this situation isn't that.

 

So, "but they were jerks" or "they breached 'x' etiquette" may be true, and rankle you,  but in the end it's irrelevant - and sometimes that's hard to get past with some folks.  Again, I don't see enough here to really condemn the guys behind you, but since you felt that way, just suggesting sometimes you just smile and let that go in favor of you and your group's overall enjoyment for the day.

 

If you are reading this, then now you can listen to my pet peeve, since I've read your bit, lol.

 

Last night in league a guy is looking for his ball in the rough (he had teed off on an adjacent fairway) - I see him pick up a ball I'm pretty sure is mine, he turns it in his hand a few times, clearly gives it a good looking over, puts it down and pulls a club and starts to address the ball, so just as a precaution I holler over the forty yards between us, "hey, that doesn't happen to be a number ___?" It's a custom high number.  He says, "I'm playing a ProV1".  I reply, "Mine is a number ___, has a ________ logo and my initials on it."  He gives a little glance down, waves and walks away, lol.  Can't make this stuff up.  We had a couple guys engaged in a search on the other side of our fairway, so I ventured into the rough and trees to help him.  He yells over, "I thought that was your ball."  I say, "Yes, I'm helping you look for yours."  LOL, within two minutes I'd found his ball and let his playing partner know where it was.  

 

People are strange.

 

 

Edited June 3, 2022 by Hawkeye77

[Wham49]

10 hours ago, Jvoom30 said:

 

 

However, I do not understand why so many ppl agree that a twosome who was trying to essentially bumrush off the first tee and take calls when we were hitting just gets a pass. 

thats the problem, you need to understand , dont hold people up, and if you do, expect people to not be pleasant

[SNIPERBBB]

17 hours ago, Jvoom30 said:

 I say let's keep playing as we were playing fast as a 4... 

 

 

 

That statement is irrelevant to letting a group play through. It doesn't matter how fast YOU ARE. Its how fast THEY ARE, and if there is open course in front of you.  You could be playing at a 2hr pace for 18 which is blazing speed but if the group behind you is at 1.5hr pace, you have to let them go if there's room in front. 

[me05501]

1 hour ago, Girevik said:

Was the other group a bit aggressive in trying to get ahead?  Perhaps. 

 

It seems like they were passive-aggressive about trying to get through, or at least the OP perceived it that way. 

 

My guess is if they had rolled up quietly and had a well-timed friendly exchange about being just a twosome and asking politely to play ahead it wouldn't have rankled anyone. The OP gives the impression they were coming in hot and not being that courteous to his foursome. Maybe that's what caused the discomfort he felt. 

 

I agree with most responses that it doesn't matter much how they acted and offering the tee box was probably in order regardless. If they had demanded it then putting them in their place would be appropriate. Sounds like it was left in limbo so no one made the adult decision to either request or offer to swap places. 

[ND2005]

Also worth pointing out that the only people whose day/round of golf got ruined were OP and his partners. The twosome got the all clear when you quit after four holes, and I’m sure had a fine round of golf, probably laughing about the weirdos who walked off the course mid round. 
 

So even if the twosome was in the wrong (which I really don’t think they were), OP let his need to be right ruin 4 peoples’ day. 
 

[DFS PFD]

I would hate to be in this guys foursome (though I'd insist we let them play through), rushing your entire group to their detriment because your ego won't let someone play through. Those two probably started a thread on another forum asking about skipping holes to pass slow groups that won't let them play through. 

[Bonneville85308]

11 hours ago, Schulzmc said:

 

I still have no idea what an “on deck spot” is. I’ve been golfing for over 50 years and probably played 300+ courses and have never seen one.

 

Some of the age 55+ community courses here in AZ have them. It's basically an area of wide cartpath with an "on deck" sign about 30 yards from the first tee. The starter calls the first group of the day to the tee, and the second group to the "on deck" spot. First group tees off, starter calls second group to the tee and third group to "on deck." Rinse and repeat all day. I think the idea is to ensure that groups are in position to tee off on time, to ensure groups aren't cutting in front of others, and to avoid multiple groups crowding the first tee.

[elsie451]

If you're feeling rushed or uncomfortable about the group behind you, then they are obviously playing faster than you. If there is an empty hole ahead of you, let them play through.

 

Now I can understand not immediately letting a twosome go first on the first tee when it's empty, after all some twosomes can be painfully slow. But you can just tell them that your group plays pretty fast, but if they are still sticking with you after a couple of holes you'll wave them through. 

 

As for the twosome rolling up on you while teeing off, since you left after 4 holes, I would assume that it's either a private or an inexpensive muni. If it's private, I'd put it on the starter for sending the other group out too early, but would still want to stay cordial with the other members.  If it's a muni, well you need to expect that not everyone really knows or cares about golf etiquette.

[nsxguy]

51 minutes ago, Bonneville85308 said:

 

Some of the age 55+ community courses here in AZ have them. It's basically an area of wide cartpath with an "on deck" sign about 30 yards from the first tee. The starter calls the first group of the day to the tee, and the second group to the "on deck" spot. First group tees off, starter calls second group to the tee and third group to "on deck." Rinse and repeat all day. I think the idea is to ensure that groups are in position to tee off on time, to ensure groups aren't cutting in front of others, and to avoid multiple groups crowding the first tee.

 

At one of the courses I play the starter, and cart line-up, are approximately 100 yards from the first tee and the tee's in sight.

 

Since the carts are lined up in a sunny area and there is a large tree about 40 yards or so behind the first tee, the starter will usually send the next group up under the shade tree. That's their unofficial "on deck" spot.

 

Actually, I can't ever recall seeing an "official" on deck spot.

[Krt22]

18 hours ago, tatertot said:

You were wrong on every possible point.

Pretty much.

 

OP should have just let them go on the first tee, especially if the course wasn't busy.

 

OP...what was your motivation to stay ahead of a 2-some in the first place? A fast foursome is still getting beat by a moderate two-some in terms of pace.

Edited June 3, 2022 by Krt22

[MountainKing]

There's no right way to do it - but your approach to it is 100% wrong.  If the course is empty, them being two and you being four, you should have just let them go when they drove up and you'd be done with it. 

 

The only thing that twosome could have really done better, was ask for what they wanted when they pulled up to you guys.  If I drive up to a foursome on the first tee knowing the course is fairly empty, I'm flat out asking to go ahead of them.  Beyond that, they did nothing wrong, and I wouldn't even really think anything of a group driving up to the first tee anyway if they are next.  

Edited June 3, 2022 by MountainKing

[nsxguy]

@Jvoom30

 

My ex-gf and I used to like to visit the wineries on eastern Long Island.

 

We'd taste of course but often not particularly like any of them at that winery enough to buy a bottle. My ex-gf though, would occasionally buy what she called a "mercy" bottle.

 

So in that spirit, if you've had enough, you should know you can lock the thread with the "Moderation Actions", to the left, above your original post.

[Schulzmc]

8 hours ago, Bonneville85308 said:

 

Some of the age 55+ community courses here in AZ have them. It's basically an area of wide cartpath with an "on deck" sign about 30 yards from the first tee. The starter calls the first group of the day to the tee, and the second group to the "on deck" spot. First group tees off, starter calls second group to the tee and third group to "on deck." Rinse and repeat all day. I think the idea is to ensure that groups are in position to tee off on time, to ensure groups aren't cutting in front of others, and to avoid multiple groups crowding the first tee.

It actually sounds like a decent idea. But the original claim that “most courses” have them is obviously in error.

[bobfoster]

Thread sort of puzzles me. Would have let them immediately play through on the first hole, for two (seemingly but not really) contradictory reasons - basic common courtesy, and pure self interest. 

 

The common courtesy part is that if I'm in a foursome I'll pretty much always let a twosome play through if they want to - in fact I'll usually invite them to. When courses aren't that busy, they often will. When they are jammed, most twosomes will actually politely decline  - rightly saying "thanks, but it wouldn't really make any difference". And, in fact, extending that courtesy makes both groups have a more pleasant day.

 

OP appears (though I may be wrong) to want to deliberately irritate the twosome by not waving them through because they were sort of a**holish from the start. IMO, that is precisely the reason why I would wave them through (that's the pure self interest part). What kind of afternoon would I rather have - one where my group is followed for 18 holes by a twosome that demonstrated from the very first hole that they are arrogant idiots with no sense of etiquette, or one where I say buh-bye to them on one, and let them sail off to irritate the next foursome in front of them?

 

Yes, of course you have the right to not wave them through, but consider this ... by not doing so, you described several holes full of increasing aggravation that got bad enough that you and your buddy even started arguing. Had you let them through right away? Probably would have enjoyed a perfectly delightful, stress-free day on the course.

 

Sometimes "enlightened, benevolent self-interest" produces optimal results. Yes?

Edited June 4, 2022 by bobfoster

[straightshot7]

It sounds like you let your ego get the better of you, in not wanting them to play through since they upset you on the first hole.

Yes they were in the wrong, but you would be better off letting them play through and then enjoying your round without them bothering you any more. 

[mshills]

OP is getting blown up here!

 

There’s a really simple rule. If you are not keeping up with the group in front of you, let the group behind you play through. Even if the group directly in front of you tees off an hour before you and there is a single, or two, or three right on your a**. You let them through if there is a gap. No hard feelings, no flexing, no micro aggression, perceived slights 🙄, or macro aggression. 

[jordan2240]

Fully understand why you'd have been annoyed with them.  They did essentially 'bum rush' you, but I actually think I've done the same thing on occasion when there was a foursome on the tee and I was in a twosome, and I was hoping they'd see us an let us play through (assuming the green up front was open).  Unfortunately, some folks out there have no understanding of play-through etiquette, and they won't let you play through no matter what, so a little push might be necessary from time to time.  A group of geezers I play with were completely unaware of such etiquette until I started playing with them - or at least it seemed that way.

 

But other than trying to persuade a group to let you play through, I believe most follow an unwritten rule of hanging back a bit when someone else is on the tee, so while there is no official 'on-deck' spot, it's common courtesy to leave some distance.

[North Butte]

First off, I'll mention that I've never seen or heard anything like your "on deck circle" thing. Which isn't to say it's all that unusual, just not the kind of thing that would exist at the courses I frequent. 

 

Second, I'll offer my opinion that there's no particular reason not to wave someone through in the middle of a hole if that's where your group encountered a lost-ball delay. There's nothing magical about commencing a play through on a tee box. The best thing to do when holding up a group behind you is to play faster, if that is not possible for whatever reason then wave them through without delay. Anything else just overcomplicates things, increases frustration and further delays play.

 

I'll say it's clear in retrospect if you had simply waved them through that would have worked out very greatly to your advantage:

 

1) In 10 minutes they'd be gone and you'll never have to see them again in your whole life

2) You and your partner would not have had your round ruined and cut short by a ridiculous argument

3) You would have gained one tiny extra bit of positive karma for doing the polite thing

4) It would have avoided you creating this thread and having dozens of people criticize your actions

 

It's up to you to choose whether to let this thoroughly unpleasant experience influence your future choices or not...

Edited June 5, 2022 by North Butte

[ezra76]

In that situation let them through. If the course is packed and my group is waiting on every shot/tee as well then there is no point. I had one time when we were out with 4 groups doing an event and we were last group. Guy yelled from teebox for us to hurry up on a par 3 as I was in the middle of my putting stroke. I got pretty pretty pissed but we just played on. I told the guys in the group if they did anything again just leave the flagstick out laying on the green for them. By the next hole, par 5, we left them behind and never saw them again. It was pointless for them to play through as we had our outing ahead of us with markers on all the par 3's for closest to pins. 

 

Edit- I actually pushed that 4footer and missed when the guy yelled but my partner and I still won the event

Edited June 5, 2022 by ezra76

[North Butte]

17 minutes ago, ezra76 said:

In that situation let them through. If the course is packed and my group is waiting on every shot/tee as well then there is no point. I had one time when we were out with 4 groups doing an event and we were last group. Guy yelled from teebox for us to hurry up on a par 3 as I was in the middle of my putting stroke. I got pretty pretty pissed but we just played on. I told the guys in the group if they did anything again just leave the flagstick out laying on the green for them. By the next hole, par 5, we left them behind and never saw them again. It was pointless for them to play through as we had our outing ahead of us with markers on all the par 3's for closest to pins. 

 

Edit- I actually pushed that 4footer and missed when the guy yelled but my partner and I still won the event

Yeah, I recently had a situation where we were stuck on a crowded course for well over 4-1/2 hours. Just stacked up as far you could see in every direction. Waiting before every single shot of the round.

 

At some point, for reasons I can not fathom, one of my foursome decided he ought to invite the twosome playing behind us to play through. Did not consult the rest of our group, just strolled back to where they were waiting (behind us on a Par 3 tee while we were waiting on the green to clear) and told them to go ahead.

 

So now that twosome were waiting behind maybe 14 foursomes instead of 15 foursomes because we let them through. And our round took 10-15 minutes longer, theirs took 10-15 minutes less. 

 

I chose not to make an issue out of it but the guy was way out of line. Sometimes you just gotta grit your teeth a little and move on. Making a big deal out of a little annoyance never helps. But c'mon, what was he thinking?

[ND2005]

1 hour ago, ezra76 said:

In that situation let them through. If the course is packed and my group is waiting on every shot/tee as well then there is no point. I had one time when we were out with 4 groups doing an event and we were last group. Guy yelled from teebox for us to hurry up on a par 3 as I was in the middle of my putting stroke. I got pretty pretty pissed but we just played on. I told the guys in the group if they did anything again just leave the flagstick out laying on the green for them. By the next hole, par 5, we left them behind and never saw them again. It was pointless for them to play through as we had our outing ahead of us with markers on all the par 3's for closest to pins. 

 

Edit- I actually pushed that 4footer and missed when the guy yelled but my partner and I still won the event

 

Courses should (and most decent ones do) let you know if you're teeing off behind an event. 

 

My old course used to have season long match play competition and the starters would always let you know if there was a match out there and not to bother them/try to play through. 

[Masterplan]

Even though I am a very fast player, I don't like looking over my shoulder at the waiting group and would let them play through assuming their space ahead.  It takes me out of my flow when I worry about the group behind.  If the twosome has nowhere to go, they ain't playing through

[5 O'Clock Charlie]

In your case the correct time to let a group play through was on the first hole, before you guys put balls in the air.

 

- Not busy course

- They have 2 and you had 4

 

This is not rocket science.

[Imp]

9 hours ago, North Butte said:

Yeah, I recently had a situation where we were stuck on a crowded course for well over 4-1/2 hours. Just stacked up as far you could see in every direction. Waiting before every single shot of the round.

 

At some point, for reasons I can not fathom, one of my foursome decided he ought to invite the twosome playing behind us to play through. Did not consult the rest of our group, just strolled back to where they were waiting (behind us on a Par 3 tee while we were waiting on the green to clear) and told them to go ahead.

 

So now that twosome were waiting behind maybe 14 foursomes instead of 15 foursomes because we let them through. And our round took 10-15 minutes longer, theirs took 10-15 minutes less. 

 

I chose not to make an issue out of it but the guy was way out of line. Sometimes you just gotta grit your teeth a little and move on. Making a big deal out of a little annoyance never helps. But c'mon, what was he thinking?

I'd still rather let them play through also... even on a busy course (as long as it;s not a sting of 2s behind them expecting to also get through), once their green is clear for the 2some to hit their approaches, it's 2 balls, and then it's just a couple putts and they're outta there just a tad quicker.... meaning you don't have to wait as long to hit your shots TO the approach area, and then the approaches either, they *should*/*hypothetically* be off the green in 1/2 the time of a 4some (even though they have to wait at next hole anyways). I'd much prefer that in front of me, given the choice. 2 should play a hole faster than 4 once the group in front of them are off the green.

However, I do agree, the guy that let him through should have opened up a discussion with you guys first (in which I would have been 'sure')

There are some people that just don't get "pace" either.

Played in a tourney yesterday with a golfing buddy of mine that's new to the group. He gets a bit irate when I explain that we need to keep up with the group in front. He's the guy that will sit in the cart, next to the green, to do the card, or other stuff while others are waiting to hit up and fails to see the need to move on to the next tee. He thinks "we're not going anywhere, busy course, why are you rushing me?" 

Edited June 5, 2022 by Imp

[North Butte]

On 6/5/2022 at 7:15 PM, Imp said:

He thinks "we're not going anywhere, busy course, why are you rushing me?" 

There's a guy in my usual group who uses this excuse constantly. It's not that he's super slow but he's normally pretty deliberate. Slower than the norm in our group, anyway.

 

But if the course is at all crowded, he does this sort of passive-aggressive thing where he will not keep up with the group ahead of us because "It's just a slow day. Nothing we can do" or "It doesn't matter, we'll be waiting again eventually". 

 

I'm always thinking yes, there is something you can do. You can go ahead and hit your damn shot and start walking. 

 

Even on a slow, crowded course if everyone falls behind the already slow pace it gets slower and slower and slower. Not sure how an otherwise intelligent adult can fail to understand that.

[MountainKing]

On 6/7/2022 at 6:02 AM, North Butte said:

There's a guy in my usual group who uses this excuse constantly. It's not that he's super slow but he's normally pretty deliberate. Slower than the norm in our group, anyway.

 

But if the course is at all crowded, he does this sort of passive-aggressive thing where he will not keep up with the group ahead of us because "It's just a slow day. Nothing we can do" or "It doesn't matter, we'll be waiting again eventually". 

 

I'm always thinking yes, there is something you can do. You can go ahead and hit your damn shot and start walking. 

 

Even on a slow, crowded course if everyone falls behind the already slow pace it gets slower and slower and slower. Not sure how an otherwise intelligent adult can fail to understand that.

 

Pace of play seems ot be a difficult concept on these boards, which are full of avid golfers.  If guys here can't figure it out, the general public has no chance.

[larrybud]

So when were you planning on letting them through? Seems like never?

 

Also in my 40 years of playing (holy crap!) I've never seen an "on-deck" designated spot. Also, just had a similar circumstance where we were the 4. 2-some rolled up right before we were teeing off. We said "you guys two? You can go if you like". They mentioned they were waiting for 2 other buddies and to go ahead, so we left. 

Edited June 10, 2022 by larrybud

[Augster]

9 hours ago, larrybud said:

So when were you planning on letting them through? Seems like never?

 

Also in my 40 years of playing (holy crap!) I've never seen an "on-deck" designated spot. Also, just had a similar circumstance where we were the 4. 2-some rolled up right before we were teeing off. We said "you guys two? You can go if you like". They mentioned they were waiting for 2 other buddies and to go ahead, so we left. 

Simple. Do you think the OP recognizes, now, how easy it is to do the right thing?

 

The only time we had an “on deck” circle was when the courses reopened after COVID shutdown in 2020. 
 

It was ridiculous as it’s completely outside and you only hang by your own group anyway. But it was what it was. 
 

That was April 2020. Since May 2020, and before, I’ve never played a course with a designated on-deck spot either. 
 

Maybe the on-deck spots have always been at many courses and those of us that don’t know about them, and claim we’ve never seen one, just blow by them on our way to the first tee. 
 

I think I just blew my own mind. 🙂

[North Butte]

2 hours ago, Augster said:

Maybe the on-deck spots have always been at many courses and those of us that don’t know about them, and claim we’ve never seen one, just blow by them on our way to the first tee. 
 

I think I just blew my own mind. 🙂

My mind is easily blown and this thread pretty much has done it. 

 

But I've learned one thing over the years, by traveling a little and reading this forum a lot. Golf is a mighty big world with all sorts of stuff in it. I can imagine there are maybe regions or areas where the on-deck circle thing is common even though it is nothing like I've ever encountered.