Rickie Fowler is a cautionary tale in overexposing a superstar

[Superbrit]

1 hour ago, aenemated said:

Funny, just did a search of 2020 money winnings and ... it hit me I made more at my job than Rickie did at his this year. 

 

Minus endorsements, of course. As far as I know, there aren't many endorsements for software engineers ... but if there was, I'd be making BANK because I'm at least as cool as Rickie and have an equally hot girlfriend. (Never wife as we've agreed one ex-spouse is enough for the both of us. 😂)

I was going to say great passive brag, but can't say that was particularly passive

[aenemated]

10 minutes ago, Superbrit said:

I was going to say great passive brag, but can't say that was particularly passive

 

One of my favorite things anyone has ever said to me is "One of these days, I'm going to teach you some tact." 

[Cincy_Ken]

3 hours ago, MattyO1984 said:

It seems like Fowler, at the moment is pretty close to being this generations Mickelson (with less wins admittedly). Both were and are fans favourites. Both had golf games which should allow them to compete at the sharp end of professional golf. Both got the their early 30’s without winning a big one whilst their peers have been collecting them.

 

I'd call this comparison pretty flimsy.  You do admit less wins but that doesn't really do justice to the win differential.  Mickelson was in the 20s as far as wins goes so he had 4X the wins Rickies got.  Mickelson was widely regarded as the #2 player at the time.  Rickie has spent time in the top 10 and pretty consistently has been a top 20 player prior to 2020 but never has he ever been a consensus top 5 player for any length of time.

 

I feel Rickie is much more Kuchar than Phil.  Good player who qualifies for most national teams.  Wins roughly every other year.  Made a ton of money.  Good enough where you wouldn't be surprised IF they won a major championship but not so good where you feel like them winning is inevitable.  Rickie will probably have his shot someday like Kuch had a Birkdale; for his sake hopefully someone doesn't start dropping bombs from all over the way Spieth did to Kuch. 

[BlackDiamondPar5]

20 minutes ago, Cincy_Ken said:

 

I'd call this comparison pretty flimsy.  You do admit less wins but that doesn't really do justice to the win differential.  Mickelson was in the 20s as far as wins goes so he had 4X the wins Rickies got.  Mickelson was widely regarded as the #2 player at the time.  Rickie has spent time in the top 10 and pretty consistently has been a top 20 player prior to 2020 but never has he ever been a consensus top 5 player for any length of time.

 

I feel Rickie is much more Kuchar than Phil.  Good player who qualifies for most national teams.  Wins roughly every other year.  Made a ton of money.  Good enough where you wouldn't be surprised IF they won a major championship but not so good where you feel like them winning is inevitable.  Rickie will probably have his shot someday like Kuch had a Birkdale; for his sake hopefully someone doesn't start dropping bombs from all over the way Spieth did to Kuch. 

That's a better comparison.  Also about Phil, he spent 26 years in the top 50 which is more than anyone in history.

[MtlJeff]

3 minutes ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

That's a better comparison.  Also about Phil, he spent 26 years in the top 50 which is more than anyone in history.

 

Phil has probably become very underrated just because he's been around so long, had a bunch of near misses, and still has the lingering memories of us saying he couldn't win the big one for so long.

 

I guess most people consider him an alltime great which is high praise. But yeah some of his numbers are pretty crazy. The above stat is amazing, just playing pro golf for 26 years is crazy.

 

And he did end up with 5 majors. Phil is like golf's Kareem Abdul Jabbar. Been around forever, probably better than we realize at their peak, totality of their careers is kind of amazing, and both are unintentionally comedic actors. 

[dlygrisse]

So has anyone determined whether Rickie is still “cautionary tale” or not?

[BlackDiamondPar5]

6 minutes ago, dlygrisse said:

So has anyone determined whether Rickie is still “cautionary tale” or not?

Not sure.  I'd like to think about it more in terms of nice guys can get ahead.  Perhaps "... an illuminating tale of how being a nice guy can help you be a superstar"

[bscinstnct]

6 hours ago, grm24 said:

Hardly. He is exempt on the PGA Tour through 2022-23. All it will take for him to regain eligibility for majors in 2021 is to have 1 high finish (top 3 or 5) at the start of 2021 and his OWGR ranking will climb high enough to make him eligible for all of them and the WGC events. Comfortably. You be like completely wrong again. 

 

Ha! Hey, you know Jordan is #79 owgr now. His 5 year exemption for winning the 2017 Open will be running out in 2022, is that right.

 

So, if him and Rickie drop out of the top 125  by then,

 

They both be like,

 

Tour Shmoor, send Uber to pick up another Taco Bell 10-pack!

 

 

 

 

[Nels55]

2 hours ago, MtlJeff said:

 

Phil has probably become very underrated just because he's been around so long, had a bunch of near misses, and still has the lingering memories of us saying he couldn't win the big one for so long.

 

I guess most people consider him an alltime great which is high praise. But yeah some of his numbers are pretty crazy. The above stat is amazing, just playing pro golf for 26 years is crazy.

 

And he did end up with 5 majors. Phil is like golf's Kareem Abdul Jabbar. Been around forever, probably better than we realize at their peak, totality of their careers is kind of amazing, and both are unintentionally comedic actors. 

Kareem was the best player in the league for a number of years and he won a title in Milwaukee in his second year playing with Oscar Robertson and 3 guys named Joe.  Mickelson's career is not even close to Kareem's imho.

[MtlJeff]

4 minutes ago, Nels55 said:

Kareem was the best player in the league for a number of years and he won a title in Milwaukee in his second year playing with Oscar Robertson and 3 guys named Joe.  Mickelson's career is not even close to Kareem's imho.

 

Not even close is a bit strong. Phil finished the year in top 3 at one point 7 out of 9 years. He spent a lot of that time at #2 . Between 2000 and 2010 he was the second best player in the world for the decade , and he's a top 10 alltime player.  That's not quite Kareem but i think it's a pretty apt comparo

 

BTW that '71 team had Bobby Dandridge too who averaged 19/7 for a 10+ year career and made several all star teams. If you have Kareem/Oscar and a 3rd guy who's an Allstar in the 70's you absolutely should win the title, which of course they did

[BlackDiamondPar5]

7 minutes ago, MtlJeff said:

 

Not even close is a bit strong. Phil finished the year in top 3 at one point 7 out of 9 years. He spent a lot of that time at #2 . Between 2000 and 2010 he was the second best player in the world for the decade , and he's a top 10 alltime player.  That's not quite Kareem but i think it's a pretty apt comparo

 

BTW that '71 team had Bobby Dandridge too who averaged 19/7 for a 10+ year career and made several all star teams. If you have Kareem/Oscar and a 3rd guy who's an Allstar in the 70's you absolutely should win the title, which of course they did

If LeBron or Jordan played with Kareem he would have been exactly like Phil Mickelson😉

[MUNIGRIT]

2 hours ago, dlygrisse said:

So has anyone determined whether Rickie is still “cautionary tale” or not?

Only thing to be cautious about is caution PGA tour golf will make you wealthy if you play well but don't win much. 

[MtlJeff]

2 hours ago, dlygrisse said:

So has anyone determined whether Rickie is still “cautionary tale” or not?

 

If you don't want to do very well at your job and be liked by what seems like the majority of people you come across....than for sure yes

[MattyO1984]

3 hours ago, Cincy_Ken said:

 

I'd call this comparison pretty flimsy.  You do admit less wins but that doesn't really do justice to the win differential.  Mickelson was in the 20s as far as wins goes so he had 4X the wins Rickies got.  Mickelson was widely regarded as the #2 player at the time.  Rickie has spent time in the top 10 and pretty consistently has been a top 20 player prior to 2020 but never has he ever been a consensus top 5 player for any length of time.

 

I feel Rickie is much more Kuchar than Phil.  Good player who qualifies for most national teams.  Wins roughly every other year.  Made a ton of money.  Good enough where you wouldn't be surprised IF they won a major championship but not so good where you feel like them winning is inevitable.  Rickie will probably have his shot someday like Kuch had a Birkdale; for his sake hopefully someone doesn't start dropping bombs from all over the way Spieth did to Kuch. 

 

Sorry I thought we were talking about Rickie and marketing, that’s where the Phil comparison comes in for me. Phil had plenty of money thrown at him before he won a major. Would he have had as much thrown at him if he never won one?  Will Rickie end up having as much money thrown at him if he doesn’t win one or heck even get his game somewhere near where it should be. 

[straightshot7]

1 hour ago, MtlJeff said:

 

Not even close is a bit strong. Phil finished the year in top 3 at one point 7 out of 9 years. He spent a lot of that time at #2 . Between 2000 and 2010 he was the second best player in the world for the decade , and he's a top 10 alltime player.  That's not quite Kareem but i think it's a pretty apt comparo

 

BTW that '71 team had Bobby Dandridge too who averaged 19/7 for a 10+ year career and made several all star teams. If you have Kareem/Oscar and a 3rd guy who's an Allstar in the 70's you absolutely should win the title, which of course they did

Some basketball aficionados consider Kareem to be the greatest of all time.

 

His 6 championships equal more like 12-15 majors compared to Phil’s 5 (in terms of how many championships most all time greats win)

 

He won the league MVP 6 times which would be like winning pga tour player of the year 6 times.

 

All time leader in points.  
 

don’t forget he also won 3 NCAA titles and was 3X national college player of the year

 

the list goes on and on. Kareem is actually closer to Tiger in terms of accolades. Most people have Kareem as a top 3 player of all time. Everyone has him as a top 5 player of all time. 

 

but yes he and Phil both had great longevity.

 

 

Edited December 18, 2020 by straightshot7

[bubbagump]

8 hours ago, aenemated said:

Funny, just did a search of 2020 money winnings and ... it hit me I made more at my job than Rickie did at his this year. 

 

Minus endorsements, of course. As far as I know, there aren't many endorsements for software engineers ... but if there was, I'd be making BANK because I'm at least as cool as Rickie and have an equally hot girlfriend. (Never wife as we've agreed one ex-spouse is enough for the both of us. 😂)

 

Just me, but I'd say Rickie's on course performance in 2020 was less cringe worthy than this "passive" brag

 

Edited December 18, 2020 by bubbagump

[Dr. Block]

3 minutes ago, bubbagump said:

 

Just me, but I'd say Rickie's on course performance in 2020 was less cringe worthy than this passive brag

 

Haha...If he had found a way to sneak in the car he drives, he would have had the trifecta.  

[grm24]

5 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

 

Ha! Hey, you know Jordan is #79 owgr now. His 5 year exemption for winning the 2017 Open will be running out in 2022, is that right.

 

So, if him and Rickie drop out of the top 125  by then,

 

They both be like,

 

Tour Shmoor, send Uber to pick up another Taco Bell 10-pack!

 

 

 

 

 

YJS is also exempt through 2022-23. 

Edited December 18, 2020 by grm24

[MtlJeff]

31 minutes ago, straightshot7 said:

Some basketball aficionados consider Kareem to be the greatest of all time.

 

His 6 championships equal more like 12-15 majors compared to Phil’s 5 (in terms of how many championships most all time greats win)

 

He won the league MVP 6 times which would be like winning pga tour player of the year 6 times.

 

All time leader in points.  
 

don’t forget he also won 3 NCAA titles and was 3X national college player of the year

 

the list goes on and on. Kareem is actually closer to Tiger in terms of accolades. Most people have Kareem as a top 3 player of all time. Everyone has him as a top 5 player of all time. 

 

but yes he and Phil both had great longevity.

 

 

 

We should probably just make this a Kareem thread now since i think the Rickie stuff has run its course LOL. 

 

I don't think a comparison has to be literally perfect to be used. I know Kareem was awesome and he is more of a great at his sport than Phil was at golf. However i don't think it's as lopsided as some might argue. Phil is an alltime great, arguably what, top 6 or 7?

 

I don't think many Basketball experts would have Kareem 1st. Yes people remember him for his longevity and discount that in his prime he was the best player in the world and that's a shame. It's because people didn't watch basketball in the 70's and it exploded in the 80s when Kareem was older and on the Lakers. He was awesome at UCLA and on the Bucks. 

 

Remember though that the NBA in the 70s was pretty bad. The ABA existed, for one which diluted the talent. Imagine what Phil's career would look like if there was a 2nd tour that Tiger played on and they never competed head to head, and in the end the tour Phil was on carried on the name. Phil might have twice as many majors if not more and in 2020 it would look like they were all won against the top competition. 

 

Obviously you have to count the Lakers titles. But the Lakers and Celtics were just sooooo much better than everyone else. Those titles are like CFL football titles because it was essentially a 6 team league

[stingerfade]

7 hours ago, aenemated said:

 

One of my favorite things anyone has ever said to me is "One of these days, I'm going to teach you some tact." 

Seems you weren’t listening haha

[bscinstnct]

1 hour ago, Dr. Block said:

Haha...If he had found a way to sneak in the car he drives, he would have had the trifecta.  

 

He just got Ferrari, be like

 

 

[OrangeGravy]

Looking from the outside and having no stats/numbers/distances to backup my feelings, Rickie always seemed to me to be one of those guys who is a really good player who's limited by being on the lower end of the distance spectrum compared to the power players on tour. One of the guys who has to be really precise for an entire week to win. Can't afford any blow up holes because he can't reach every par 5 in 2 type of guy. Every year that passes on tour new guys on tour are longer and their margin for error gets progressively smaller. I'm not sure where he sits with his distance, but guys on the shorter end tend to appear for stretches of really good play, then disappear from contention for stretches. Kuchar is one of the few that seems to have a really long stretch of finishing high. Or maybe a better way to put it is, Rickie is NOT one of the few golfers on tour that can contend with their B game. There aren't many that can and usually those that can are on the longer end of the spectrum. 

[Shilgy]

13 hours ago, aenemated said:

Funny, just did a search of 2020 money winnings and ... it hit me I made more at my job than Rickie did at his this year. 

 

Minus endorsements, of course. As far as I know, there aren't many endorsements for software engineers ... but if there was, I'd be making BANK because I'm at least as cool as Rickie and have an equally hot girlfriend. (Never wife as we've agreed one ex-spouse is enough for the both of us. 😂)

Dang, I guess I went into the wrong field.  Rickie made about $450k on the course in 2020

[Shilgy]

9 hours ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

That's a better comparison.  Also about Phil, he spent 26 years in the top 50 which is more than anyone in history.

Funny how in the Phil stat top 50 is an achievement but in this thread Rickie at #50 sucks. 

[BlackDiamondPar5]

55 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

Funny how in the Phil stat top 50 is an achievement but in this thread Rickie at #50 sucks. 

26 years longevity is the significant part of that stat. You know that but you just want to be contrarian?

[aenemated]

4 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

 

He just got Ferrari, be like

 

 

 

Not enough room for all the golf shwag I haul around! 

 

Haha really wasn't trying to flex - had been staring at code for about 12 hours and my brain was fried. ACTUALLY was gonna throw Rickie a bone till I looked at his 2020 winnings and was like ... oh. 

 

I'll show myself out. 

[bscinstnct]

39 minutes ago, aenemated said:

 

Not enough room for all the golf shwag I haul around! 

 

Haha really wasn't trying to flex - had been staring at code for about 12 hours and my brain was fried. ACTUALLY was gonna throw Rickie a bone till I looked at his 2020 winnings and was like ... oh. 

 

I'll show myself out. 

 

Ha!  Well, for what you’re billing, I hope whatever you’re building there actually works ; )

 

 

 

 

[Shilgy]

44 minutes ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

26 years longevity is the significant part of that stat. You know that but you just want to be contrarian?

Not at all. The bar for Phil is being moved to make the streak longer.  To the point where some lose sight of it being much of an achievement.  Personally I think his streak of 19 years in the top 20 is more impressive.

[dlygrisse]

8 hours ago, MtlJeff said:

 

We should probably just make this a Kareem thread now since i think the Rickie stuff has run its course LOL. 

 

I don't think a comparison has to be literally perfect to be used. I know Kareem was awesome and he is more of a great at his sport than Phil was at golf. However i don't think it's as lopsided as some might argue. Phil is an alltime great, arguably what, top 6 or 7?

 

I don't think many Basketball experts would have Kareem 1st. Yes people remember him for his longevity and discount that in his prime he was the best player in the world and that's a shame. It's because people didn't watch basketball in the 70's and it exploded in the 80s when Kareem was older and on the Lakers. He was awesome at UCLA and on the Bucks. 

 

Remember though that the NBA in the 70s was pretty bad. The ABA existed, for one which diluted the talent. Imagine what Phil's career would look like if there was a 2nd tour that Tiger played on and they never competed head to head, and in the end the tour Phil was on carried on the name. Phil might have twice as many majors if not more and in 2020 it would look like they were all won against the top competition. 

 

Obviously you have to count the Lakers titles. But the Lakers and Celtics were just sooooo much better than everyone else. Those titles are like CFL football titles because it was essentially a 6 team league

70’s NBA was cool, but yeah the ABA did dilute it. Euro tour does the same thing, especially in the 90’s. 
if I would compare Phil to a player in another sport I’d say Elway . Long career, tons of talent, lots of failures and some great success.  Polarizing figure, but a smart guy. Not the greatest of all time but a really great career, not even the greatest at a point in time, but always near the top, sometimes for a short period totally dominated.  

 

[MtlJeff]

19 minutes ago, dlygrisse said:

70’s NBA was cool, but yeah the ABA did dilute it. Euro tour does the same thing, especially in the 90’s. 
if I would compare Phil to a player in another sport I’d say Elway . Long career, tons of talent, lots of failures and some great success.  Polarizing figure, but a smart guy. Not the greatest of all time but a really great career, not even the greatest at a point in time, but always near the top, sometimes for a short period totally dominated.  

 

 

Damn you!!!! Elway might be a better comp. 

 

He even had failures before his first success , and "couldn't win the big one"

 

I would say Elway probably would be lower on the alltime QB list than Phil is on the golfers list....but like I said, perfect comparisons are impossible