How could anyone be a fan of Patrick Reed?

[phizzy30]

16 minutes ago, manku said:

In golf, why would someone care what your "peers" think?   BTW, they aren't "peers"...they're your competition.  For you to win, they have to lose.

 

 

 

Harris English was his TEAM MATE in college, not his competition.  Not only him, but several other TEAM MATES have accused of cheating and stealing money.  If it was one person, then yeah, it can be taken with a grain of salt, but when several team mates say the same thing, well, there's something to it. 

[Kilo1545]

1 hour ago, Yuck said:

 

I am a fan a great music

I am a fan of great art

I am a fan a great scientific achievement 

I am a fan of great Athletic achievement

I am a fan of great golf

 

If I limited my enjoyment of great achievements to those people I felt worthy of whatever high standards I might have on morals, ethics, lifestyle, etc.   I would miss out on a lot.

 

 

People who are principle-based* are as much or more concerned with the process as they are with the outcome.  They'll respect a person who did everything right and failed more than a person who won in a questionable manner.

 

To them, it's not "great music" If the person making it is an immoral turd.  

To them, it's not "great art" if the person making it is unethical.

Etc.

Etc.

Etc.

 

For them, the process and not the outcome is what determines "success."  

For them, "if you ain't cheating, you ain't trying" is a terrible outlook.

For them, tainted victories aren't victories at all.

 

*I'll head this off right from the beginning...no, I'm not saying that people who think differently lack principles.  I'm simply referring to where principles lie with regard to priority and thought process.

 

[bladehunter]

2 minutes ago, michigangolfer said:

My issue is this, if he wasn't at least skirting the rules, why did he ask the volunteer if it bounced WHILE he was walking up to the ball? He hadn't even inspected his lie closely when he asked the question. That shows intent in my mind.  

Because it lets you know where to look.  No bounce equals deep.  Rory mentioned the same “ we didn’t see it bounce “.  

[Tree Levino]

1 minute ago, MtlJeff said:

I don't think it's overly complicated why some fans like Reed or people similar to him . It is usually 1 of 2 reasons:

 

1) Guy really isn't that bad and the media coverage tends to snowball/pile on and ends up making the guy seem worse than he is. I always felt this happened to Sergio a bit, who always seemed like he had a softer side even despite his missteps. 

 

2) Guy actually is that bad, but still has fans because of "counter culture" where people will like him specifically because they are told they shouldn't. And it's more about not being told what to do than about the person

Don't forget the guy at the beginning of the thread that very seriously said “he’s an American, that’s good enough for me!”. BTW I’m Canadian and so is Paul Bernardo so that’s good enough for me! I think he’s innocent. Good Canadian boy. Just misunderstood 😂

[larrydev]

I think he's an insufferable cheating ***** and Chamblee was spot on in his summary.

[bladehunter]

1 minute ago, Kilo1545 said:

People who are principle-based* are as much or more concerned with the process as they are with the outcome.  They'll respect a person who did everything right and failed more than a person who won in a questionable manner.

 

To them, it's not "great music" If the person making it is an immoral turd.  

To them, it's not "great art" if the person making it is unethical.

Etc.

Etc.

Etc.

 

For them, the process and not the outcome is what determines "success."  

For them, "if you ain't cheating, you ain't trying" is a terrible outlook.

For them, tainted victories aren't victories at all.

 

*I'll head this off right from the beginning...no, I'm not saying that people who think differently lack principles.  I'm simply referring to where principles lie with regard to priority and thought process.

 

Well put.  I’m also a Ric Flair fan and used to watch Dale ( both as a child not a slobbering adult ) before nascar  turned into a beauty pageant.  So I’m guessing I’m the antithesis of that description.  Lol. 

[Itsjustagame]

It appears "social distancing" is likely not a problem for him.

Estranged from his family, disliked by his college teammates.

Hard to like, but apparently that's fine with him.

Too bad this over shadows his considerable golfing skills.

 

[Duffer222]

45 minutes ago, BIM_Monkey said:

Good for you hun. Have a great time!

 

 

You’re a sad individual, hon!

[Soloman1]

I've reached the point where unless it's someone I know, I couldn't care less who wins a tournament, a football game, a baseball game, a hockey game, a basketball game...

 

If you're betting on something, I can see it, otherwise, who cares? It has no effect on you at all. It's not like they're going to send you a check because they won.

 

 

Edited February 1, 2021 by Soloman1

[dciccoritti]

The lady doth protest too much, methinks

[Tree Levino]

Just now, Itsjustagame said:

It appears "social distancing" is likely not a problem for him.

Estranged from his family, disliked by his college teammates.

Hard to like, but apparently that's fine with him.

Too bad this over shadows his considerable golfing skills.

 

Agreed. When this many people have cut you out and you have this many examples of poor behaviour on your record, it’s clear that he’s the issue. 
 

If he hadn’t have been good at golf he’d probably be slinging lemon used cars to people with bad credit. 

[markheardjr]

Rory has credibility, and also, in my opinion a plausible reason....the ball bounced, and landed right back in its own pitch mark. Which is easily possible. Reed's ball jumped forward a few feet, maybe 1 foot in the air after a low pulled wedge. Rory's ball was a towering/ballooning 5i that dropped straight down, bounced up 1 foot and fell right back down. Did not bounce forward.

 

Now, I don't doubt that either of them had a nice mud spot on their ball. There is 0% chance Reeds ball was in its own initial pitch mark, and doubtful it embedded on a short hop.  Rory's ball could have landed in its own mark, especially if it landed nearly vertical. The clearing it made in the grass on the way down could have easily funneled it back into its own pitch mark.  Can't say 100% that is what happened. But I can explain Rory's situation easier than Reeds.

 

IMO though, anytime you are going to move a live ball in play, for free relief from embedded ball, you get a playing partner, their caddy or an official.  Cart path drops, relief from structures, etc. are all pretty easy to do on your own. Embedded balls, get someone to check, and preferably prior to you removing your ball. I'll allow a 1" pick up and check, but not palming it, not moving it, not touching dirt with your hand.

 

Reed needs to be put on rules probation. IMO, he should know better with his reputation and just take the high road and get the rules official.  Immediately asking the volunteer if she saw it bounce was pretty aggressive. Removing the ball/palming it was 2nd questionable act. Then testing the grass where he wanted to make a drop was 3rd. Then continuing to poke/prod the dirt with his fingers was 4th.  Its a trail of skirting the rules for personal advantage and IMO, how a pathological liar would go about it. Establish blame on unsuspecting patsy, alter crime scene, remove evidence before authority can review, and scope out a get away route.

[8602081]

No doubt PR has skills..  But, he's just not a likeable person

 

[manku]

11 hours ago, JermWRX said:

And how did all of the analysts react to it? Faldo, Nobilo, Baker-Finch, Dottie. All consummate pros. They all said pulling the ball out, moving it and messing around with the plug is not right. I don’t know. Guess I just think the dudes shady

 

What else are they going to say, especially in this age where having a different opinion means career suicide or eternal public abuse? 

 

 

 

[morgan1819]

1 minute ago, manku said:

What else are they going to say, especially in this age where having a different opinion means career suicide or eternal public abuse? 

 

Exactly.  They have to follow the corporate response.  CBS knows controversy equals a few more viewers on Sunday, so it was clear that the announcers had someone in their ear telling them to hammer away at Patrick.

 

Rory, not so much.

 

Pretty amazing how many people totally bought into it.  A huge win for CBS and the Golf Channel to demonize PR.

 

 

[tiderider]

rory is irish ... the irish don't lie ... they imbibe ... which is not the same thing as embed ... they imbibe and talk like leprechauns ... leprechauns don't cheat ... 

[bladehunter]

13 minutes ago, phizzy30 said:

Harris English was his TEAM MATE in college, not his competition.  Not only him, but several other TEAM MATES have accused of cheating and stealing money.  If it was one person, then yeah, it can be taken with a grain of salt, but when several team mates say the same thing, well, there's something to it. 

I don’t know.  I just literally had to put a stop to “ teammates “ and some pretty bad bullying tactics on my kids school  basketball team.  Teammates connotation doesn’t hold much water in my option.  

[Sean2]

11 hours ago, dlygrisse said:

Both of their balls bounced and landed in a different spot.  Neither saw their ball bounce.  Reed asked the volunteer who was standing right there if it bounced.  She said no, it didn’t.   Rory skirted the rules more than PR.  Neither technically cheated.  You are being biased.  Clearly biased.  

I agree. PR didn't see the ball bounce, he was told it didn't bounce, the rules official said he did nothing wrong, as did the guys he was playing with. So to ignore those facts is to ignore reality as it doesn't conflate with one's view of PR. But, these days facts are overrated, lol. 

[bscinstnct]

This may actually end up working out very well for PR.

 

The sand situation was different, he got skewered by basically everyone.

 

But in this case, especially with Rory doing the exact same thing, a lot of people are saying,

 

Wait a minute. 
 

You can see opinion divided and it’s the anti-Reed faction that looks smug and self-righteous.

Especially Brandel, Faldo etc and people these days are weary of a sanctimonious media.

Plus, PR is actually getting a lot of support in the media here as well.

 

People don’t like being “lectured” about right and wrong because they know those who lecture are full of crap themselves.

 

Xander and those whining are really annoying, they sound like middle school kids,

 

“the talk among the boys isn’t great”

 

Thats so weak.

 

 

People all whining that Reed marked his ball and picked it up without an official there need to listen to Rory...

 

“It’s not uncommon for someone to put a tee in the ground and check if their ball is embedded especially in soft conditions”

 

 

 

 

[Ferguson]

16 minutes ago, michigangolfer said:

My issue is this, if he wasn't at least skirting the rules, why did he ask the volunteer if it bounced WHILE he was walking up to the ball? He hadn't even inspected his lie closely when he asked the question. That shows intent in my mind.  

 

My answer is I don't have the first dam* clue.   Maybe he was first on the scene and often spoke with volunteers?  And maybe he didn't know it bounced and was generally curious?   I'm an educated man, but I'm afraid I can't speak intelligently about the conversation habits of Patrick Reed. What I do know is that he arrived at the ball and asked for assistance. Now, are these the questions I was called here to answer?  Bounced balls and volunteers? Please tell me you have something more.  Rory and Patrick are two pro golfers with a social media reputations on the line. Please tell me that their WRX representative hasn't pinned their hopes to a volunteer.

 

 

[miamistomp]

“Everyone likes talking about other people's flaws, less so their own.”
― C.A.A. Savastano

 

[morgan1819]

I like Rory, but his ball was not in its own pitch mark.  0% chance.

[Sean2]

14 minutes ago, 8602081 said:

No doubt PR has skills..  But, he's just not a likeable person

 

Which more often than not means he is guilty in the eyes of many simply because they don't like him. 

[Sean2]

2 minutes ago, miamistomp said:

“Everyone likes talking about other people's flaws, less so their own.”
― C.A.A. Savastano

 

Ah, that feeling of self-righteousness in the morning! lol

[FakeClubPro]

16 minutes ago, 8602081 said:

No doubt PR has skills..  But, he's just not a likeable person

 

Neither is Greg Norman.

[golfday]

I don't get why neither of these guys threw up a hand and says to someone in their group "Hey, I'm plugged and going to take a drop. Do you want to take a look first?". And this goes for anything, you should do that if you're on a drain, cart path, etc.

 

Nearly 100% of the time the other person will say go ahead and drop, the fact that you offered gives everyone good piece of mind. When you just pick your ball up without saying anything is when things look suspicious. 

 

That's common courtesy in competitive golf IMO. Even going back to a junior event, if you looked over and say someone taking a drop in the rough without them saying something you would think wtf. 

 

With Reid, he's not well liked and has been caught cheating before. So when he does something suspicious people jump all over it. His ball may have been plugged, but we'll never know. Seeing a ball bounce does not mean for certain that it did, or didn't plug; that's not solid evidence in either direction. If he had just offered to let someone else take a look he could have avoided this entirely. Instead it was in his pocket before anyone knew what was going on.

 

With McIlroy, he's well respected, liked and to my knowledge hasn't been on the wrong end of a rules controversy. People generally trust that his ball was plugged. However, if he wants to avoid this in the future it would be pretty easy.

 

 

[FakeClubPro]

Just now, Sean2 said:

Ah, that feeling of self-righteousness in the morning! lol

Does it smell as good as naplam? 

[michigangolfer]

 

5 minutes ago, Ferguson said:

 

My answer is I don't have the first dam* clue.   Maybe he was first on the scene and often spoke with volunteers?  And maybe he didn't know it bounced and was generally curious?   I'm an educated man, but I'm afraid I can't speak intelligently about the conversation habits of Patrick Reed. What I do know is that he arrived at the ball and asked for assistance. Now, are these the questions I was called here to answer?  Bounced balls and volunteers? Please tell me you have something more.  Rory and Patrick are two pro golfers with a social media reputations on the line. Please tell me that their WRX representative hasn't pinned their hopes to a volunteer.

 

 

Thanks Colonel Jessep

[Olddoncarlo]

11 hours ago, Golfnuck said:

I don't particularly care for the guy.

 

But he takes every advantage to win.  Maybe gets a bit over the edge but so what.

 

I'm sure you all watch or have played American Football.  I bet there is at least one foul committed on every play.

 

I'm Canadian and I played hockey.  We all know how to hook or interfere to gain an edge.

 

The trick is not to get caught.

 

So why not for golf too.

 

What I do admire about him is 1) his ability to cheat just enough to not get caught or 2) if he does get caught (sand incident) he doesn't give a crap.   He is by far the most professional cheater in golf today and you have to admire him for that.

 

I am sick of everyone that seems to think golfers are so angelic and how honorable the game is ..... I don't believe it for a moment.

 

Joe Montana: If you ain’t cheating, you ain’t trying,

 

 

Wow....and I thought I was cynical!!!

 

But golf is (or should be) different.

Guys like Reed and Kuchar are basically dirtbags.

Everyone saw Reed's shot pop a foot in the air after it first landed.

How can a ball possibly plug after that?

IT CAN'T.

Reed should have been penalized and the official should be told to look for another job.

The official had access to TV replay. Why didn't he use it??

[mister2cool]

1 hour ago, GoTime said:

 

Sure looked like Rory's caddie cleaned his ball....

Yeah I noticed that as well. I am a Rory fan but I think he got away with one there.