LIV Tour Discussion Thread (*** NO POLITICS ***)

[00steven]

 

[jdl]

 

[Str8Putt]

21 hours ago, Nixhex524 said:

 

IDK, to each their own... I have been watching a lot of GM Golf and Grant Horvat on YT lately and the vlogs are far more entertaining than what the PGA Tour has been offering.  Better commentary and shot coverage... they often play matches in best ball format and it's fun to watch..  to boot, they typically are playing for nothing but bragging rights. 

 

But that's the beauty of it... we have choices.  

Same I've been watching a lot of GM Golf and Good Good. Even though it's produce content. It's far more enjoyable.

Good Good did some content with Rick Shiels. Just good fun enjoyable 

[mosesgolf]

Things are getting interesting.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/golf/report-details-of-players-meeting-with-tiger-woods-emerge-including-liv-golf-departures-new-no-cut-events/ar-AA10SVEY?cvid=2f55c2e80d8f40f0a92d1498a294038d

 

PGA Tour pretty much matches LIV money and all the other perks of remaining on Tour.  

[Cali_Stinger77]

Honestly I'm tired of this entire LIV vs PGA Tour thing and I feel like both sides are acting super childish. The only thing I liked about LIV was the speculation and absurdity of the entire concept, but that hype has died down and I don't even care about LIV anymore. The product sucks from a viewing standpoint and as Tiger stated there's no incentive to grind it out on the range. Phil's +26 in 3 events and he doesn't even care. He's probably gonna play like crap for a couple years and then succeed Norman as the commissioner of LIV (if it's even a thing).

[NMBob]

up front money..... deducted from winnings....proposed by whom?   ...the pga tour players .....

 

Quote

 (One consolation that was floated at the recent Player Advisory Council meeting is fronting each of the 200 or so Tour members $500,000 per year, taken against their winnings.) 

 

Glad to see players who signed away their broadcast rights on Thursday and Friday (but then missed the cut) but helped make the tour money, might be getting  paid.

Edited August 21, 2022 by NMBob

[idrive]

2 hours ago, mosesgolf said:

Things are getting interesting.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/golf/report-details-of-players-meeting-with-tiger-woods-emerge-including-liv-golf-departures-new-no-cut-events/ar-AA10SVEY?cvid=2f55c2e80d8f40f0a92d1498a294038d

 

PGA Tour pretty much matches LIV money and all the other perks of remaining on Tour.  

 

The problem is the guys that are money grabbing want that big 50-300 mill up front. I don't believe the PGAT can or should pay/match the big checks just for showing, up front.

 

Matching the purses in one thing but unless they've got a Billion $'s hanging around they can't do it anyway.

[dalehead]

On 8/16/2022 at 9:19 PM, SurfDuffer said:

18 events with the top 60 players, plus 4 majors. Sounds good to me. 

[Hardluckster]

3 hours ago, mosesgolf said:

Things are getting interesting.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/golf/report-details-of-players-meeting-with-tiger-woods-emerge-including-liv-golf-departures-new-no-cut-events/ar-AA10SVEY?cvid=2f55c2e80d8f40f0a92d1498a294038d

 

PGA Tour pretty much matches LIV money and all the other perks of remaining on Tour.  

So this new proposal would have the PGAT transform largely to what Monohan and some here have referred to as ‘exhibition’ events.  
 

I’m really interested to know how the members of the PGAT who are not in the top 60 feel about this potential transformation.

[puttfordoux]

Well I just canceled my ESPN Plus subscription because no matter the level of talent remaining on the PGA Tour, the players left simply won't compel me to watch on a near-constant basis, especially at $10 a month. And I hope I'm not alone in this. The only way the average fan can fight against this as the rich get richer, is simply to stop supporting the product.

 

 

[straightshot7]

8 hours ago, 00steven said:

 

so what Phil said about re-shaping the  Tour is in fact happening 🤔

[aenemated]

Literally no one wanted this nonsense.

 

 

 

[Soloman1]

Wait, this meeting sounds like the PGA Tour players are only in it for the money. I thought only the LIV guys were only in it for the money?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Forged4ever]

On 8/14/2022 at 8:03 PM, Forged4ever said:

Regardless of where he plants the peg next year, this guy is as Classy as they come and if I was commissioner, I'd give him a "Commissioner's Exemption" for as long as he stayed within the top 175 earnings wise. 
 

This scene is after a QUINTUPLE BOGIE on 18, basically ending his Play-Off hopes and any chance of keeping his card and you would never ever know it by his actions!!!
 

With a TBaG hat to boot, which I know of three Pros off the top of my head that will only sign THEIR sponsors' gear, no others!!

 

Later Edit(08/16/22, 4:08pm EST): A shoutout to @mikewohlwend for correcting my dumb *ss, as Rickie does indeed Play a TBaG ball🤙👊RPII 

 

Madison spoke of what gems he and Jordan were when they were in the Burgh in '16 when no one asked them to do a thing, there were no cameras around, and half of her kids didn't even know who Jordan was, though every child, 4 boys and two girls, ages 8-10yo, knew Rickie, lol. He was Playin with them aas though they were his own. 
 

If he leaves, I hope that they pay💰💰 him well, cuz unlike some of the others, he deserves EVERY dime!!

 

Have a Great Week My Friends👊
RP

Let me say that while I am a dinosaur🦖 regarding comparing todays greats with yesteryears, and I'll never concede to @Shilgy anything more on Bobby Jones than while  he is undisputedly THE Amateur GOAT, he has absolutely ZERO business in any legitimate All-Time Top-10 list, though out of respect for Shilg's as a genuinely Class Act, I will concede Bobby Boy a high teens spot in the All-Time Top-20😉😘, I hear other dinosaurs chirping about how entitled, spoiled and elitist todays' stars are and while this may be true, though having met and been around some of thei Tour Boys of the 1970's & 80's and while they may not have had 4-5 coaches/advisers in their teens and been catered to as many of todays Tour Boys have been, trust me here, there were just as many arrogant, entitled rude *ss holes on Tour in the 1970's & 80's as they are today!!
 

There was just no cell phone cameras and internet social media platforms by which the average fan can here about their boorish behavior within an hour of it occurring, lol.

 

That said, I absolutely Love when a Player, especially our youngest generation, steps up and Leads by their actions instead of by their Twitter account!!

 

Cameron Smith is to the 20's generation what Rickie is to the 30's!! I remember seeing Cam hang back walking towards the 18th green at Augusta and at first it didn't register then it dawned on me as they panned in on Scheffler that it was to allow Scottie to approach the 18th green alone and to soak up the adulation that he so deserved. This is after Cam, on the cusp of making a Tiger like back nine charge starting with his bird on the difficult 11th, then he collapsed with his trip bogie at Amen Corner. Instead of continuing the downward spiral, Cam regrouped and dropped two consecutive birds to secure third place, which had to have felt like warm curdled milk at the time😬

 

However, unlike so many Athletes today, both Professional and Amateur alike, instead of thinking of inky himself in defeat, he thought of his competitor!! 
 

The icing & cherry🧁🍒 on top was after the media circus had died down, the cabin awards ceremony was over and the fans had headed for home, Scottie's Father hung back to congratulate Scottie Scheffler personally and wish him the best moving forward!! It's no wonder that Cameron Smith is as Classy as he is!! 
 

Cameron's second display of Class came when he clocked the fan with his drive down at the St. Jude Championship. You all probably know the story by now however if ya don't, check the link out below.
 

 https://www.nationalclubgolfer.com/news/cam-smith-fan-gesture/

 

Again, regardless of what decision that Cameron makes, whether he goes or whether he stays, ya know a couple of things...

 

First , his decision will be a prudent well reasoned and thought out decision, where his parents and family will have been involved all the way and most importantly, even if he goes, it won't be just for the money💰💰!!

 

It may be for what that money would allow Cameron to do for both his family and the generations of family to come and also if he so chooses, for others, however there is not a single doubt in my mind that if Cameron takes the LIV offer, he has a grand master plan to set a TRUE legacy, not just some statistical sports legacy, where the vast vast majority become just a line on a page. Think

of the immense good that Camron could do if he took half of that $100M, and put it either towards an existing charity or charities, or, started his own. He could start an endowed Scholarship program for deserving underprivileged youth to attend either college or trade school. He could build, expand  and/or fund a cancer wing at his chosen hospital, along with setting up a charity to house families while their loved ones undergo their treatment when they have travelled long distances for their care. 
 

There are just sooooo many avenues that Cameron or anyone with that kind of money, if they were so motivated, could travel, to leave a TRUE Legacy, that is sooooo much larger than their name on a line on a page with a number after it.

 

The same with Tiger~
 

His residual income as a Brand Ambassador  gives him more money than his annual financial consumption, so could you imagine if that $1B is indeed an accurate number????

 

So, say Tiger takes $250M, pays the taxes on it then takes the rest and invests that sum to provide trusts to secure the Woods offspring for generations to come. 
 

That leaves him with $750M, THREE QUARTERS OF A BILLION DOLLARS, to which  he can leave THE single greatest legacy of any athlete EVER!!!

 

Greater than Jack!!

 

Great than Mr. Palmer!!

 

Greater than Michael!!

 

Greater than Phil Knight!!!

 

No, Tiger would leave a legacy that transcends the sports world and while he would not surpass Gates, Buffett or Zuckerberg, he would be in THAT world and those are the truly incredible Legacies, regardless of what one thinks of the individual. I was discussing this with @isaacbm and it is mind boggling the good that that kind of money could do for HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS and eventually MILLIONS of individuals!!!

 

Now THAT is a Legacy!!

 

Trust me, Tiger's golf Legacy is safe, complete and secure, regardless of if he joined the friggin Ringling Brothers Barnum & Bailey circus🎪(Yah, they're makin a 2023 comeback minus the animals🤡). If he did take the LIV money, I would hope that he would use the vast majority, if not all of that "signing" money to make the world a better place. If he did that, I wouldn't care who he Played for!!

 

Regarding Camron Smith, regardless of where he plants the peg next season, he will be a credit and a beacon to that organization, to Professional Golfers everywhere and to his generation!!

 

As always, my .03 worth😊

 

Fairways & Greens 4ever My Friends⛳️
RP

[Bye]

6 hours ago, puttfordoux said:

Well I just canceled my ESPN Plus subscription because no matter the level of talent remaining on the PGA Tour, the players left simply won't compel me to watch on a near-constant basis, especially at $10 a month. And I hope I'm not alone in this. The only way the average fan can fight against this as the rich get richer, is simply to stop supporting the product.

 

 

Agreed, the whole thing is becoming quite grotesque. My Sky sports subscription is in peril, and I definitely won’t be watching LIV.

[N8dogg2669]

13 hours ago, 00steven said:

 

but I thought you were supposed to dig it out of the dirt 😂😂😂. “$30 million in his bank account the day he turned pro”Tiger told me that at St Andrew’s so it has to be true right? It’s always about the money, you guys are fools if you think otherwise. These guys look like bigger hypocrites every day. 

[N8dogg2669]

6 hours ago, puttfordoux said:

Well I just canceled my ESPN Plus subscription because no matter the level of talent remaining on the PGA Tour, the players left simply won't compel me to watch on a near-constant basis, especially at $10 a month. And I hope I'm not alone in this. The only way the average fan can fight against this as the rich get richer, is simply to stop supporting the product.

 

 

cancelled mine last month. Watched part of the BMW yesterday, woke up 2 hours later on the couch. So boring. 

[mitchl]

9 hours ago, Hardluckster said:

So this new proposal would have the PGAT transform largely to what Monohan and some here have referred to as ‘exhibition’ events.  
 

I’m really interested to know how the members of the PGAT who are not in the top 60 feel about this potential transformation.

it’s 60 players, doubtful you will have the same 60 week in and week out, some of those top players don’t play 18 now.    If the other players can play their way into those events making them more open instead of a closed invitation only… it’s less exhibition.   
 

if some big names players are not making more money regardless of shooting 80s than the winners make for actually playing, then that’s less exhibition like.
 

and if it’s 72 holes, with no shotgun starts… that’s a big deal too.

 

unfortunately, it sounds like it’s the same medal play for all these tournaments.   It would be cool to see match plays mixed in.   

[So_Cal]

11 hours ago, parichay said:

Honestly I'm tired of this entire LIV vs PGA Tour thing and I feel like both sides are acting super childish. The only thing I liked about LIV was the speculation and absurdity of the entire concept, but that hype has died down and I don't even care about LIV anymore. The product sucks from a viewing standpoint and as Tiger stated there's no incentive to grind it out on the range. Phil's +26 in 3 events and he doesn't even care. He's probably gonna play like crap for a couple years and then succeed Norman as the commissioner of LIV (if it's even a thing).

Yes.  They are destroying pro golf.  If Norman would have been more successful at finishing in majors I don’t think he would be so bitter.  It was refreshing to watch the US Am yesterday.  Guys want it bad and there is no money talk.  What both of these golf leagues need to understand is the average guy is now having a hard time paying for his family’s food and fuel.  We don’t want to hear about the millions more you are making.  These golf “tours” are out of touch.  

[ElephantTusk]

7 hours ago, puttfordoux said:

Well I just canceled my ESPN Plus subscription because no matter the level of talent remaining on the PGA Tour, the players left simply won't compel me to watch on a near-constant basis, especially at $10 a month. And I hope I'm not alone in this. The only way the average fan can fight against this as the rich get richer, is simply to stop supporting the product.

 

 

Consider Peacock for $4.99 then if you're only using it for golf. I basically only pick it up for majors (other than the Masters) and playoff events and no complaints besides the amount of commercials.  

[ahenderX]

8 hours ago, puttfordoux said:

Well I just canceled my ESPN Plus subscription because no matter the level of talent remaining on the PGA Tour, the players left simply won't compel me to watch on a near-constant basis, especially at $10 a month. And I hope I'm not alone in this. The only way the average fan can fight against this as the rich get richer, is simply to stop supporting the product.

 

 

I cancelled my subscription not because of the lack of PGA Tour quality but because my preferred MLS soccer team is always blacked out. Not worth $10 a month for golf only.

[Nixhex524]

19 hours ago, idrive said:

 "Tiger Woods is a true champion: he knows that without the fans, competition is diminished.

Despite not being a true contender in recent events, Tiger still commands the biggest gallery and surely enjoys the calls from raucous admirers.

Certainly, the golfers joining the LIV tour will not have the same experience, and they obviously don’t mind. Many of them, who are in the twilight of their careers, will end with more money in their pockets, but not the admiration of dedicated golf fans.

Short-Lived Fame: The players abandoning the fans of golf will eventually regret it. Playing in front of crowds that resemble your local country club championship, instead of thousands of enthusiastic fans and millions of viewers, will inevitably diminish their flair to compete as intensely.

After all, great athletes, by definition, flourish when there is an audience. Dealing with pressure is part of what constitutes greatness.

More importantly, many of the LIV players, with their robotic or abrasive personalities, will soon be forgotten, having abandoned their fan base. They are already being replaced by a new and upcoming group of professional players who realize the popularity of the sport is made by the fans, not by the players themselves."

 

This is just not true.  Golf gained fans because of Tiger...  without him, it would not be as popular as it is today.  Popularity of a sport is 100% related to the competitors.  Every sport markets a "star" player, as they should but it's for the sole reason of getting people to watch.  Without a draw, no one cares.  Weaker fields get less attention... no surprises there.

 

Criticize LIV for many things, sure...  I don't love the team aspect either but I do think that what they are doing along with other YouTube channels, is showing people that the game can be fun and not always so super competitive and stressful.  99.9% of us will never sniff a competitive tour, so like it or not, I think what is happening to the game is only a positive and will bring more people in as they see it can actually be a lot of fun.   PGAT is just getting stale and they seem to have few answers as for what to do now to stand out without a "Tiger"... Love the guy, but lets be real... he is done and the PGAT is in panic mode.

[ahenderX]

17 hours ago, 00steven said:

 

Not a fan of the proposed changes. Complaining about no-cut events then considering 18 no-cut events seems rather hypocritical. Guess I’ll just start watching more soccer.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

3 hours ago, N8dogg2669 said:

cancelled mine last month. Watched part of the BMW yesterday, woke up 2 hours later on the couch. So boring. 

Saturday afternoon golf has always been a great way to lull one into a nap. So nothing new here.

 

If anyone thinks the LIV format is going to lull the young then they are severely underestimating the short attention span of this demographic.  Televised TopGolf type events with flashing lights and sound effects and instant gratification is more their speed.

[bekgolf]

34 minutes ago, ahenderX said:

Not a fan of the proposed changes. Complaining about no-cut events then considering 18 no-cut events seems rather hypocritical. Guess I’ll just start watching more soccer.

 

At this point it's all internet rumors.

 

It would be hard to believe that the PGA would exchange what they have now for a bore fest.  Golf is the last sport I watch on TV.  I enjoy watching it.  IMO changing it will lose viewers.  Once the viewers go the sponsors pay less to advertise or simply don't advertise which leads to less money available for prize money.  It's a downward spiral. 

[Short Pete]

If you want an individual sport to be and to stay interesting you have to have highlights. Tennis has the Grand Slams, golf has the Majors and the Ryder Cup. Nobody cares for the „No cut much money“ WGC events. And nobody will care for „Top 60 make the rich even richer“ events. You can only have so many highlights in a season. If they do that they do exactly what Norman wanted almost 30 years ago. They do a two-tier tour, with A and B events. Guaranteed paydays for 1-60, grind with cuts for 61 plus. 
 

They should put the PGA back to August. FedEx cup afterwards. No wraparound season. Two big money events in October and November maybe for the Top 60. And financial support regarding travel and caddies. Put the money into the events. 

[Cali_Stinger77]

2 hours ago, So_Cal said:

Yes.  They are destroying pro golf.  If Norman would have been more successful at finishing in majors I don’t think he would be so bitter.  It was refreshing to watch the US Am yesterday.  Guys want it bad and there is no money talk.  What both of these golf leagues need to understand is the average guy is now having a hard time paying for his family’s food and fuel.  We don’t want to hear about the millions more you are making.  These golf “tours” are out of touch.  

 

Exactly, Norman is just jealous the "Tour" stole his ideas and started the WGC's back in 90's. As Tiger stated there's no incentive to grind it out anymore if you've been given millions of dollars before hitting a shot.  In this moment I highly doubt Willy Z's is thinking about the $2.7 million he could potentially win

 

 

[Ghost of Snead]

5 hours ago, N8dogg2669 said:

cancelled mine last month. Watched part of the BMW yesterday, woke up 2 hours later on the couch. So boring. 

 

Um ... it's golf - not bikini roller derby. 

    

 

Edited August 21, 2022 by Ghost of Snead

[Ghost of Snead]

2 hours ago, Nixhex524 said:

 

This is just not true.  Golf gained fans because of Tiger...  without him, it would not be as popular as it is today.  Popularity of a sport is 100% related to the competitors.  Every sport markets a "star" player, as they should but it's for the sole reason of getting people to watch.  Without a draw, no one cares.  Weaker fields get less attention... no surprises there.

 

Criticize LIV for many things, sure...  I don't love the team aspect either but I do think that what they are doing along with other YouTube channels, is showing people that the game can be fun and not always so super competitive and stressful.  99.9% of us will never sniff a competitive tour, so like it or not, I think what is happening to the game is only a positive and will bring more people in as they see it can actually be a lot of fun.   PGAT is just getting stale and they seem to have few answers as for what to do now to stand out without a "Tiger"... Love the guy, but lets be real... he is done and the PGAT is in panic mode.

 

Most amateurs that don't have professional aspirations already know this and don't need LIV to tell us the game is fun. 

 

[Ghost of Snead]

1 hour ago, ahenderX said:

Not a fan of the proposed changes. Complaining about no-cut events then considering 18 no-cut events seems rather hypocritical. Guess I’ll just start watching more soccer.

 

If you believe Shipnuck was told the entire truthful story from someone at the Delaware meeting, you must also believe Jordan Spieth is signing with LIV.  Someone could have mentioned 18 holes at the meeting and it turned into 18 no-cut events for the top 60.