Could a single digit handicapper break 100 at Shinnecock?

[tngolf22]

I think its safe to say the "worst" of the Pro's would be about a +6 to +8 (a proper tournament H/C, not calculated with some friends)

 

And on Friday and saturday they were shooting in the 80's, did one pro shoot 92?

 

to suggest a handicap golfer between 5 and 10 breaks 100 is insane and to even think this shows how little you know about how courses are set up for tournaments

 

Average score on Saturday was 75.3. 8 players shot 80 or worse.

 

This. I played Pinehurst #2 with my dad from the Open tees, 1 week before the Open (actually the day before it closed to the public to get ready for the tournament) and we used caddies. I was around a 5 at the time, my dad a 1-2 hcp. Caddies told us exactly where to hit it. I hit the ball very well for me...shot 92. We played other Pinehurst courses that week but my dad played his best round of the week that day. He shot 81 from the open tees. Keep in mind the greens were probably not putting at true Open speed and the rough was maybe 3" high and they stopped cutting it after that day. The course would only get tougher.

 

I'm highly confident from what I saw this past weekend a 5-10 hcp would not break 100 and a 1-5 would not break 90 at Shinnecock.

[Anser]

My dad has some confidence in his game for being a 18 handicap and 67 years old. Gotta love him. Lets says a 5-9 handicap could they do it, if they played smart. Like Santiago Golf said you cant go out looking to make pars on every hole.

 

He'd shoot 120 - if you've never been on the property you can't fathom how hilly or windy it is

 

 

[Z1ggy16]

Nope, no way. Even on the best of the days (Thurs and Sun) the best scores (other than say outliers like Fleetwood) were still low 70's, and these are guys +6 or better. Even from the regular tips, I don't think a single, even a solid 1 or 2 is breaking 90 in those conditions. They'd barely sniff 100 from the tourney tees.

 

If you put a 9 out there on Sat from the tourney tees, I'm not sure he even breaks 120. A 260 yard par 3, bunkers all around the front, with a green like glass?? Wind in your face, gusting up to 20mph? Lucky if they make a 5. Watching these guys look like amateurs putting out there gives you a sense of how fast and ridiculous it was on Sat.

[Z1ggy16]

My dad has some confidence in his game for being a 18 handicap and 67 years old. Gotta love him. Lets says a 5-9 handicap could they do it, if they played smart. Like Santiago Golf said you cant go out looking to make pars on every hole.

 

He'd shoot 120 - if you've never been on the property you can't fathom how hilly or windy it is

Not to mention some of the elevation changes, and how on certain holes there is no room for error. On 14 from the tourney tees you've got to carry about 240 yards of fescue and junk. Even from the tips it's still probably about 190. Fescue right off the fairway, too... not cut of rough. Fescue that's DEEEEEP too... like hack your way out and hope it just goes back in the fairway deep.

 

I can't imagine having to play a 7400 yard course in the wind, into greens like ice where unless you get super fortunate, missing the fairway means at best a bogey.

[Ferguson]

I think its safe to say the "worst" of the Pro's would be about a +6 to +8 (a proper tournament H/C, not calculated with some friends)

 

And on Friday and saturday they were shooting in the 80's, did one pro shoot 92?

 

to suggest a handicap golfer between 5 and 10 breaks 100 is insane and to even think this shows how little you know about how courses are set up for tournaments

 

 

If you don't like 5-10 handicappers, just come out and say it. I think we're a decent bunch of people, and most us don't smoke or litter.

[dunn]

No friggen way......its not about even hitting greens it's hitting them appropriate ydg and in perfect spot.....not many have that kind of control.....heck even PGA tour players were struggling what makes any think they could do same as them with similar irons coming in, lol....

 

Maybe low single with some length, anyone else not a chance

 

Think most would be making dbls and triples all day....and you don't even play there or know the course

 

It would eat everyone up just like it did to PGA tour

 

I too played a course set up for a qualifier to US OPEN and I played there on normal days......it was a joke how much harder it was....

[mosesgolf]

IMO there is a 1% chance of that happening and that single would have to play lights out to do so.

Wouldn't it be great if the USGA lets some average Joe's play on a Monday following a US Open to show the world how hard the courses play?

[cardoustie]

If my driver was on that day I say yes. Otherwise ZERO chance

 

I'd be playing 2nd shots to front fringes and putting / Texas wedging from short of the greens

 

The putting on super fast greens would not be my issue .. been dealing with that for years. We have greens that make above the hole putts on 18 on Saturday look easy .. ie it will run 30 feet by at my course .. not 10 feet

 

Short game could be problematic. I could see going back and forth over the 10th green a few times

[cdnglf]

IMO there is a 1% chance of that happening and that single would have to play lights out to do so.

Wouldn't it be great if the USGA lets some average Joe's play on a Monday following a US Open to show the world how hard the courses play?

 

They used to do something like this, but with pro athletes from other sports. Roethlisberger (who was a 3) shot 81 at Oakmont.

[Big Ben]

Not a prayer in Saturday trim, go chip around on your driveway and see if you stop it.

[cxx]

Maybe a better question would be: "Could a guy that usually shot 100 ever finish 18 at Shinnecock?".

[Barfolomew]

If pros are around +5 cappers and were shooting 75-80 being 5-10 over par meaning 10-15 over they're cap why would a 1 cap have have a prob going +28 to shoot 99 lol.... dude where's my wallet!

 

You're dad can play in our scratch group any day!

[Dizz]

Your dad is nuts. I'd bet he wouldn't shoot under 115.

That was my first thought, but the USGA disagrees (at least when it comes to ESC score)...from the white tees, the Shinnecock CR is 67.1 with a slope of 125 giving it a bogey rating of 90.2

https://ncrdb.usga.org/NCRDB/courseTeeInfo.aspx?CourseID=16821

 

That’s also not how the course was setup Saturday... there is just a massive difference between even Saturday and Sunday setup. I have played some competitive golf and the course setup and weather can seriously dictate the scores. A little bit of wind and the greens being dry plus certain pin positions and certain players might not even finish some holes. Soak the greens, put the pins toward the middle and no wind and the course is totally different.

 

I played 2-day tournaments in back to back years at Firestone South (home of the WGC Bridgestone Invitational) and it can play drastically different. The first year it was still kinda cold, super soft, rough super deep and wet, very very windy... so the course played SO LONG and the rough was so penal. I shot 157 and felt fairly good about my game... the winning score was 142 (+2) with rounds of 74-68. Fast forward one year the weather was gorgeous, the course was dry and the rough was tough but not a full stroke penalty being soaking wet. Plus the ball would actually bounce a little bit leaving reasonable shots into the long par 4s and 5s. I shot 145 so 12 shots better over 2 days... there were 5 people that shot 140 (E) or better with the winning score being 69-65 134.

 

A PGA TOUR course with a bunch of golf pros playing— the scores drastically change. I don’t think people realize how hard Saturday’s conditions were... especially when you have to bang every putt in and sign your name to a score. There were several hole locations where I legitimately think a 9+ handicap could be chipping all day. I played Oakmont several years ago right after their Member-Guest which they say plays faster than the US Open on purpose and a guy in my group who was a decent 16 handicap at a normal course (I’ve played with him a lot) was literally chipping and putting back and forth on 3-4 holes that I remember. We gave him several 10-12 footers for 8 or 9 because if he missed that 10-12 footer it might go 40-50 yards down the fairway. Hell at that time I was a + handicap and one hole I did it... I hit a 2 iron off the tee and a really nice 9 iron but it finished like 6 feet above the hole. I mean I flushed this 9 iron and it came off just like I wanted but truly world class players know if they missed 147 yard shot more than 145+ yards than it wasn’t a good shot. I hit the left edge of the hole from 6 feet and it went 50 yards down the fairway.

 

So if the question is strictly for Saturday’s conditions... most answers are NO. If the question is it possible If the course is setup as easy as possible? Then it’s a different question and answer totally.

[kekoa]

Nope, but I would sure like to try...

[Ghostwedge]

Maybe a better question would be: "Could a guy that usually shot 100 ever finish 18 at Shinnecock?".

Take everything out of his golf bag and throw in 2 dozen more balls....

[Railroading13]

I'm a low single cap and I couldn't break a 100 with those conditions, something I actually said out loud at one point

[taporsnap17]

Is he taking a brand new eraser with him on to the course?

 

On those conditions, I doubt it. If the world number 1 walked off the course shooting 7 over says "I thought I played well" mire mortals have no shot. Yes there could be a lot of bluster and hubris in his interview, wanting to still look confident (which to be fair DJ had every right to do. He shot 7 over and was still tied for the lead).

[dunn]

Your dad is nuts. I'd bet he wouldn't shoot under 115.

That was my first thought, but the USGA disagrees (at least when it comes to ESC score)...from the white tees, the Shinnecock CR is 67.1 with a slope of 125 giving it a bogey rating of 90.2

https://ncrdb.usga.org/NCRDB/courseTeeInfo.aspx?CourseID=16821

 

That’s also not how the course was setup Saturday... there is just a massive difference between even Saturday and Sunday setup. I have played some competitive golf and the course setup and weather can seriously dictate the scores. A little bit of wind and the greens being dry plus certain pin positions and certain players might not even finish some holes. Soak the greens, put the pins toward the middle and no wind and the course is totally different.

 

I played 2-day tournaments in back to back years at Firestone South (home of the WGC Bridgestone Invitational) and it can play drastically different. The first year it was still kinda cold, super soft, rough super deep and wet, very very windy... so the course played SO LONG and the rough was so penal. I shot 157 and felt fairly good about my game... the winning score was 142 (+2) with rounds of 74-68. Fast forward one year the weather was gorgeous, the course was dry and the rough was tough but not a full stroke penalty being soaking wet. Plus the ball would actually bounce a little bit leaving reasonable shots into the long par 4s and 5s. I shot 145 so 12 shots better over 2 days... there were 5 people that shot 140 (E) or better with the winning score being 69-65 134.

 

A PGA TOUR course with a bunch of golf pros playing— the scores drastically change. I don’t think people realize how hard Saturday’s conditions were... especially when you have to bang every putt in and sign your name to a score. There were several hole locations where I legitimately think a 9+ handicap could be chipping all day. I played Oakmont several years ago right after their Member-Guest which they say plays faster than the US Open on purpose and a guy in my group who was a decent 16 handicap at a normal course (I’ve played with him a lot) was literally chipping and putting back and forth on 3-4 holes that I remember. We gave him several 10-12 footers for 8 or 9 because if he missed that 10-12 footer it might go 40-50 yards down the fairway. Hell at that time I was a + handicap and one hole I did it... I hit a 2 iron off the tee and a really nice 9 iron but it finished like 6 feet above the hole. I mean I flushed this 9 iron and it came off just like I wanted but truly world class players know if they missed 147 yard shot more than 145+ yards than it wasn’t a good shot. I hit the left edge of the hole from 6 feet and it went 50 yards down the fairway.

 

So if the question is strictly for Saturday’s conditions... most answers are NO. If the question is it possible If the course is setup as easy as possible? Then it’s a different question and answer totally.

exactly, it's not about hitting pure shots....ita if your even a cpl yd or so off your screwed....and if you miss on wrong side you be there all day trying to get ball in hole....

 

As much as skill is involved it's knowing where and where not to be

 

Half the greens are raised so you wouldn't even know where to put the ball (if you could)or what it even looked like on other side....

 

Think it embarrass everyone really......the OP dad is high as F@%#( No disrespect)

 

And no a 1 hdcp is a 1 hdcp on tracks he plays, he is not a 1 hdcp on PGA tour courses, so you can't just adjust strokes and say yeah he 10 shots worse than PGA tour player, lol

 

7400 Hundy on Sat would make anyone look silly, it made them look silly

[sfiggins]

The guy from barstool claims to have shot 66 from the pro tees with unlimited mulligans.

 

... and after seeing his swing I doubt he breaks 100 from the whites on a regular basis.

 

[Tasals]

I think its safe to say the "worst" of the Pro's would be about a +6 to +8 (a proper tournament H/C, not calculated with some friends)

 

And on Friday and saturday they were shooting in the 80's, did one pro shoot 92?

 

to suggest a handicap golfer between 5 and 10 breaks 100 is insane and to even think this shows how little you know about how courses are set up for tournaments

 

Just like a pro who shot the 92 was having a seriously off day, and the pros who shot 66s had an on day. I think a 5 would probably be able to break 100 if they got hot. It would be playing for bogey and hoping to make a putt for par for the whole day. Dont hit anything to get you in trouble off the tee lay up on everything and just grind out a boring, but mentally taxing round of golf. That said, the 5 cap could have the worst round of their year and blow up, or they could make everything they look at and have a great day. I think if they did break 100, it would be a seriously good round of golf. Maybe 1/20 5 caps could do it.

[nsxguy]

I think its safe to say the "worst" of the Pro's would be about a +6 to +8 (a proper tournament H/C, not calculated with some friends)

 

And on Friday and saturday they were shooting in the 80's, did one pro shoot 92?

 

to suggest a handicap golfer between 5 and 10 breaks 100 is insane and to even think this shows how little you know about how courses are set up for tournaments

 

This from a guy who can't even spell his username correctly. :cheesy:

 

And some pros were also shooting 66s.

 

I'd say it would be difficult but given a caddy, especially one with local knowledge, to handle where to NOT hit it and read the greens, I'd say a mid-single digit or better could absolutely break 100.

[Sniperman]

Bunch of friends in PGA Golf Management were talking about this same subject. What would we shoot we played the US Open from the same tees they play. Most of us play to around +1 to a 5 and we all are pretty much there distance wise. Some people were sure they couldn't break 100-110, but the argument was if you went out trying to make pars, you probably wouldn't break 100, but if you played to plus +29, you could probably easily do it. You are laying up off the tee on every hole, including some of the par 3s.

 

This....

 

Every time there is a tough US Open, this same tired subject comes up.

 

I appreciate the honesty above from obviously good golfers. And the conclusion is obvious. If you are truly a single digit and you want to play smart; i.e. "bogey" is your par, then you have a very good chance of breaking 100. But if you are an 8 handicap at your home course which plays 6500 yards; while you are better than average, try playing your usual game and you would not be breaking 100 in Saturday's conditions, maybe not even on the easier Sunday conditions.

 

...and don't forget their home course is 6500, PAR 72! LOL! Let's not forget Shinnecock is a par 70 course that was set up to 7400 for the US Open. Any mid-capper thinking they can break ONE-TWENTY, let alone 100(!), is just smoking some good $*%#.

[Cinnamon Kid]

I've never completely understood the logic behind these questions, I think we make too much out of majors (sometimes). Other factors like national TV, 2 million $ on the line, golf history, etc., make a huge difference. However, you have to throw this weeks Saturday course conditions out of the equation to make it a fair question. If Fowler is dropping an 84, then no, most of us wouldn't break 100 no matter which tees we played from.

 

They aren't playing on Mars. Shinny still has regular members (that were still playing Tuesday evening). As does Augusta, Oakmont, etc., they are still golf courses, and in US Open cases, sometimes public courses. From the 'appropriate' tees, as a 9ish cap admittedly, very confident I would break 100 even if greens and fairways were firm. I was chatting with a friend this week about how I have played public courses that putts roll off the green and rough is 6"+ deep just feet from the fairway. My home course is notorious for horrible rough (poor maintenance). My course's fairways also average 32 yards wide, this week at Shinny I believe it was around 42. I don't enjoy these conditions necessarily, but on public courses it is quite normal. That's why many of us enjoy seeing pros play the US Open - they are experiencing conditions we see on a normal basis.

 

Could I play it at +7200 yards and break 100 - no way. Couldn't do that for a lot of courses despite conditions and setup. But even Shinnecock at maybe 6400 yards, especially with roll out, I'd have a chance. Enough I would wager on it, at least. And anyone 5 cap or lower, wouldn't wager against them. We all have scratch friends that shoot below par at our home courses, and we are lead to believe by media that they couldn't break 100? Give me a break. They may, even from the tourney tees.

 

Haven't been to a major in person, maybe I'm naive. But I think many of us here would be able to break 100 if it isn't from the tips. There is an LPGA event in my town I go to yearly. Tough course, perfect conditions, perfect greens, low rough, regular for what PGA pros see on a weekly basis. I'd shoot my handicap on that course with their conditions from the member tees, no question.

[aliikane]

With getting the same preparation as the pros, yes.

[kgeisler13]

I think in US Open conditions if a player played the appropriate tees, had a caddy, and spotters so they didn't lose there ball in the fescue it is possible.

[deadsolid...shank]

Bunch of friends in PGA Golf Management were talking about this same subject. What would we shoot we played the US Open from the same tees they play. Most of us play to around +1 to a 5 and we all are pretty much there distance wise. Some people were sure they couldn't break 100-110, but the argument was if you went out trying to make pars, you probably wouldn't break 100, but if you played to plus +29, you could probably easily do it. You are laying up off the tee on every hole, including some of the par 3s.

 

This....

 

Every time there is a tough US Open, this same tired subject comes up.

 

I appreciate the honesty above from obviously good golfers. And the conclusion is obvious. If you are truly a single digit and you want to play smart; i.e. "bogey" is your par, then you have a very good chance of breaking 100. But if you are an 8 handicap at your home course which plays 6500 yards; while you are better than average, try playing your usual game and you would not be breaking 100 in Saturday's conditions, maybe not even on the easier Sunday conditions.

 

...and don't forget their home course is 6500, PAR 72! LOL! Let's not forget Shinnecock is a par 70 course that was set up to 7400 for the US Open. Any mid-capper thinking they can break ONE-TWENTY, let alone 100(!), is just smoking some good $*%#.

 

Par is irrelevant to this question though. Just the total number. 100.

 

That being said, watching Saturday afternoon I was thinking to myself that I couldn’t break 100, at that particular time. Mid-low single.

 

 

[new2g0lf]

There are too many variables, is it one isolated round with no practice rounds. Are the conditions set up as they were on Thursday / Friday or Saturday afternoon? As for appropriate tees, I'd assume any low single digit handicapper would hit from the Championship or next set of tees which means the course would still be very long. The Red tees play only about 60 yards shorter than the 2004 US Open at 6940, so it's not as long as course as some.

 

The problems I see for single digit cappers breaking 100

• Tee shots - the pro's struggled to keep their drives out of the fescue, anyone swinging driver would be at high risk to end up in fescue, shorter clubs off the tee would lengthen the course and result in at best bogey golf
  
• Approach shots - those greens were not very receptive and with the same pin placements the landing spots were greatly minimized
  
• Putting - while some pro's seemed to putt okay, many struggled, these greens combined with the tough pin placements would result in a lot of 3 putts
  

I doubt any single digit capper playing from the red tees only one time would break 100.

[Shilgy]

I've never completely understood the logic behind these questions, I think we make too much out of majors (sometimes). Other factors like national TV, 2 million $ on the line, golf history, etc., make a huge difference. However, you have to throw this weeks Saturday course conditions out of the equation to make it a fair question. If Fowler is dropping an 84, then no, most of us wouldn't break 100 no matter which tees we played from.

 

They aren't playing on Mars. Shinny still has regular members (that were still playing Tuesday evening). As does Augusta, Oakmont, etc., they are still golf courses, and in US Open cases, sometimes public courses. From the 'appropriate' tees, as a 9ish cap admittedly, very confident I would break 100 even if greens and fairways were firm. I was chatting with a friend this week about how I have played public courses that putts roll off the green and rough is 6"+ deep just feet from the fairway. My home course is notorious for horrible rough (poor maintenance). My course's fairways also average 32 yards wide, this week at Shinny I believe it was around 42. I don't enjoy these conditions necessarily, but on public courses it is quite normal. That's why many of us enjoy seeing pros play the US Open - they are experiencing conditions we see on a normal basis.

 

Could I play it at +7200 yards and break 100 - no way. Couldn't do that for a lot of courses despite conditions and setup. But even Shinnecock at maybe 6400 yards, especially with roll out, I'd have a chance. Enough I would wager on it, at least. And anyone 5 cap or lower, wouldn't wager against them. We all have scratch friends that shoot below par at our home courses, and we are lead to believe by media that they couldn't break 100? Give me a break. They may, even from the tourney tees.

 

Haven't been to a major in person, maybe I'm naive. But I think many of us here would be able to break 100 if it isn't from the tips. There is an LPGA event in my town I go to yearly. Tough course, perfect conditions, perfect greens, low rough, regular for what PGA pros see on a weekly basis. I'd shoot my handicap on that course with their conditions from the member tees, no question.

You lost me on this...

"That's why many of us enjoy seeing pros play the US Open - they are experiencing conditions we see on a normal basis. "

[Superbrit]

I've never completely understood the logic behind these questions, I think we make too much out of majors (sometimes). Other factors like national TV, 2 million $ on the line, golf history, etc., make a huge difference. However, you have to throw this weeks Saturday course conditions out of the equation to make it a fair question. If Fowler is dropping an 84, then no, most of us wouldn't break 100 no matter which tees we played from.

 

They aren't playing on Mars. Shinny still has regular members (that were still playing Tuesday evening). As does Augusta, Oakmont, etc., they are still golf courses, and in US Open cases, sometimes public courses. From the 'appropriate' tees, as a 9ish cap admittedly, very confident I would break 100 even if greens and fairways were firm. I was chatting with a friend this week about how I have played public courses that putts roll off the green and rough is 6"+ deep just feet from the fairway. My home course is notorious for horrible rough (poor maintenance). My course's fairways also average 32 yards wide, this week at Shinny I believe it was around 42. I don't enjoy these conditions necessarily, but on public courses it is quite normal. That's why many of us enjoy seeing pros play the US Open - they are experiencing conditions we see on a normal basis.

 

Could I play it at +7200 yards and break 100 - no way. Couldn't do that for a lot of courses despite conditions and setup. But even Shinnecock at maybe 6400 yards, especially with roll out, I'd have a chance. Enough I would wager on it, at least. And anyone 5 cap or lower, wouldn't wager against them. We all have scratch friends that shoot below par at our home courses, and we are lead to believe by media that they couldn't break 100? Give me a break. They may, even from the tourney tees.

 

Haven't been to a major in person, maybe I'm naive. But I think many of us here would be able to break 100 if it isn't from the tips. There is an LPGA event in my town I go to yearly. Tough course, perfect conditions, perfect greens, low rough, regular for what PGA pros see on a weekly basis. I'd shoot my handicap on that course with their conditions from the member tees, no question.

 

I'm new to this forum but i believe the original question was asking if a single H/C can break 100 with Saturdays course/conditions, not a course a 1000 yds shorter, no wind, rough down and greens not as quick, because thats what the members will play (well apart from maybe the wind)

[jdl]

The guy from barstool claims to have shot 66 from the pro tees with unlimited mulligans.

 

... and after seeing his swing I doubt he breaks 100 from the whites on a regular basis.

 

That was not done in anything close to Saturday conditions.