This is a topic that will irritate you, but make your handicap go down.

[Yhtomit433]

Driver...200 if I’m lucky.

PW...95-110

[nitram]

2 hours ago, Obee said:

Interesting, as that's just about exactly where I am.

 

Same for me

[Howard_Jones]

11 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

I tell people 9 iron times 2 equals driver carry.

That might have been right when lofts for #9 irons was above 44, but thats a very long time ago. PGA and LPGA has a ratio of 1.83 to 1.86 from their #9 to driver, and 2.02 to 2.05 from PW to driver.

This numbers from Trackman has some added rows to split and analyze the raw datas. The YELLOW header CARRY/D means Carry from PW to Driver and the ratio we talk about.

You might also notice that SPIN vs CLUB # and the rule of thumb of 1000 x # is far off. no i have not seen you mention that, im just telling that the rule is far out and useless)



Being able to perform to your own potential, demands correct fitted equipment. Talent alone has its limitation's, and it is correct that we adapt to the clubs, but thats for the better or worse for our possibilities to really make it.

DIY fitting is quite easy if you know what to do, and my DIY driver tune up is a guide for how to, and its the same for all other clubs except the putter who is post #9 in the link below.

For those of you who have a playing buddy with the same interest, or with a deeper interest for how club specs forces the player to change his swing, should also read post #8 who is my own fitting Concept VISUAL FITTING where i tell you how we can SEE CLUB SPECS when the player swings the clubs. We simply "read his body language" who will tell you the unfiltered truth, and its explained how easy that is.

More than 100.000 readers has taken advantage of this since 2013, and some claims more than 30 yards gain from the same driver they had, now modified after DIY fitting where you will find the specs needed, even without any special tools at all, but a roll of lead tape, some painters tape and a whiteboard / dry erase marker pen is handy, but its all you need, so you can make it yourself almost for free.
 

 

Edited December 2, 2020 by Howard_Jones

[MonteScheinblum]

2 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:

That might have been right when lofts for #9 irons was above 44, but thats a very long time ago. PGA and LPGA has a ratio of 1.83 to 1.86 from their #9 to driver, and 2.02 to 2.05 from PW to driver.

This numbers from Trackman has some added rows to split and analyze the raw datas. The YELLOW header CARRY/D means Carry from PW to Driver and the ratio we talk about.

You might also notice that SPIN vs CLUB # and the rule of thumb of 1000 x # is far off. no i have not seen you mention that, im just telling that the rule is far out and useless)



Being able to perform to your own potential, demands correct fitted equipment. Talent alone has its limitation's, and it is correct that we adapt to the clubs, but thats for the better or worse for our possibilities to really make it.

DIY fitting is quite easy if you know what to do, and my DIY driver tune up is a guide for how to, and its the same for all other clubs except the putter who is post #9 in the link below.

For those of you who have a playing buddy with the same interest, or with a deeper interest for how club specs forces the player to change his swing, should also read post #8 who is my own fitting Concept VISUAL FITTING where i tell you how we can SEE CLUB SPECS when the player swings the clubs. We simply "read his body language" who will tell you the unfiltered truth, and its explained how easy that is.

More than 100.000 readers has taken advantage of this since 2013, and some claims more than 30 yards gain from the same driver they had, now modified after DIY fitting where you will find the specs needed, even without any special tools at all, but a roll of lead tape, some painters tape and a whiteboard / dry erase marker pen is handy, but its all you need, so you can make it yourself almost for free.
 

 

That’s tour players who know how to link their arms up, pivot correctly and lean the shaft a lot to bring the ball down. 
 

Ive been to this rodeo enough times to know what works for most people.  Most guys who hit it 250  just don’t have the proper impact dynamics to have a good flight on a wedge when they’re swinging with enough speed to hit it 125. 
 

Even if none of that were true...ams don’t hit the ball as a solid as often as pros.  Why do you think all the front bunkers are a WWI battle field and the only action the back bunkers get are the guys who blade it over the green from the front bunker?

Edited December 2, 2020 by MonteScheinblum

[Hawkeye77]

2 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

That’s tour players who know how to link their arms up, pivot correctly and lean the shaft a lot to bring the ball down. 
 

Ive been to this rodeo enough times to know what works for most people.  Most guys who hit it 250  just don’t have the proper impact dynamics to have a good flight on a wedge when they’re swinging with enough speed to hit it 125. 
 

Even if none of that were true...ams don’t hit the ball as a solid as often as pros.  Why do you think all the front bunkers are a WWI battle field and the only action the back bunkers get are the guys who blade it over the green from the front bunker?

Hey, I can get to back bunker blading a PW from 125! Haven't bladed a shot out of a bunker since the revelations that were releasing the club and not overswinging - thanks by the way!

[RichieHunt]

12 hours ago, Obee said:

 Richie, do you CARRY it 290? Or total distance?

 

No, I carry about 275-ish.

 

 

 

RH

[RagnarD]

This year I moved my normal drive up to about 230 to 250 from 210 to 230 after some lessons that improved alignment added more wrist hinge and release. About 140+mph ball speed with 15 degree launch angle, vs 130mph previously. Isn't costing me driver accuracy btw.

My PW moved up to 105 to 110y from when I use my new hinge and release, but now it's less accurate than when I hit pw 100y as I occasionally pull pw and short irons. So I'm thinking about getting rid of wrist hinge and getting more consistent approach shots closer to the pin. The longer drives are giving me better opportunities from closer, but yes, I don't need power from 60y to 130y out, I need accuracy. So short irons I'm thinking of going back to less wrist hinge and going a bit more on my front foot with less weight shift (avoiding my newer power moves).

[TheDeanAbides]

3 minutes ago, RagnarD said:

This year I moved my normal drive up to about 230 to 250 from 210 to 230 after some lessons that improved alignment added more wrist hinge and release. About 140+mph ball speed with 15 degree launch angle, vs 130mph previously. Isn't costing me driver accuracy btw.

My PW moved up to 105 to 110y from when I use my new hinge and release, but now it's less accurate than when I hit pw 100y as I occasionally pull pw and short irons. So I'm thinking about getting rid of wrist hinge and getting more consistent approach shots closer to the pin. The longer drives are giving me better opportunities from closer, but yes, I don't need power from 60y to 130y out, I need accuracy. So short irons I'm thinking of going back to less wrist hinge and going a bit more on my front foot with less weight shift (avoiding my newer power moves).

Have you changed your AoA with your driver?

[sprcoop]

Driver carry: 220

Max PW: 110

Comfortable: PW 100

 

This Eric Cogorno system for partial wedges was so easy to implement it was ridiculous.  Two practice sessions pacing off 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, 80 yard pitches and then used on course.  Game changer.

 

One of these days I'm going to dial it in with 9,8 and 7i.

 

These are FEELs for hand position for me, have not done video yet.  This is carry distance all PW.  I only have PW and SW 56degree for wedges and the SW only touches sand.

 

Pocket to Pocket 30yds

Hip to hip 40yds

Mid rib to mid rib 50yds

Chest to chest 60yds

Shoulder to shoulder 70yds

Neck to neck 80yds

 

Less than 30yds and I'm using the Monte "Use the bounce" free video method.  Thanks Monte!

 

 

 

[Howard_Jones]

7 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

That’s tour players who know how to link their arms up, pivot correctly and lean the shaft a lot to bring the ball down. 
 

Ive been to this rodeo enough times to know what works for most people.  Most guys who hit it 250  just don’t have the proper impact dynamics to have a good flight on a wedge when they’re swinging with enough speed to hit it 125. 
 

Even if none of that were true...ams don’t hit the ball as a solid as often as pros.  Why do you think all the front bunkers are a WWI battle field and the only action the back bunkers get are the guys who blade it over the green from the front bunker?

PGA pros and amateur elite players was my customers, i dont have much experience with high HDCP players, and i dont see a lot of them in this forum either (The tech forum), so my numbers is correct, and i cant take user or less efficiant swings into the equation, its really impossible to do that, and higher HCD players can have ANY distance with their driver compared to their PW, and with a dispersion so bad that a average useful factor from PW to driver cant be set.

About the front green bunkers....i often play them by purpose if the green is narrow with a lake behind, because its noting wrong with my short game, but as a short hitter i often have issues on long approaches who demand stopping powers....again higher HDCP players is a bit outside of what ive been working with and who im writing too.
 

[mgoblue83]

On 11/30/2020 at 11:58 AM, cardoustie said:

Some of the yardages for wedges quoted is very very low IMO, based on my game and what I see from my peers, many that are very VERY low caps

 

Now that said I have always delofted my short irons a lot and hit them far relative to other players of the same speed.  I can remember playing the Canadian Am way when and my x-14 pro-series stock shot with a 9i was 160 carry 

 

I have to basically whiff a PW to hit it 120.  I can comfortably hit a 50* GW 120 with a very smooth action and even 130 if the shot calls for that (ie left pin over a trap etc)

Stock swings, 44* PW 140, 50* GW 125, 54* SW at 110, 59* LW at 95

 

Sorry to be the contrarian

 

I do hit my wedges a lot softer and with more release than I used to .... and as referenced in the punch thread I knock down the majority of them to hit hop and stop shots 

 

You aren't being a contrarian you just have a 9iron that's stamped PW and a PW that's stamped GW.

 

Same story as everyone else hitting 48 degree PW.

[Lefthook]

@MonteScheinblum I am SO irritated, but my handicap hasn’t dropped. Not even an inch. And I’ve digested every message in this thread. What else do I have to do???

 

PS: Great topic.👍

[MonteScheinblum]

1 hour ago, Howard_Jones said:

PGA pros and amateur elite players was my customers, i dont have much experience with high HDCP players, and i dont see a lot of them in this forum either (The tech forum), so my numbers is correct, and i cant take user or less efficiant swings into the equation, its really impossible to do that, and higher HCD players can have ANY distance with their driver compared to their PW, and with a dispersion so bad that a average useful factor from PW to driver cant be set.

About the front green bunkers....i often play them by purpose if the green is narrow with a lake behind, because its noting wrong with my short game, but as a short hitter i often have issues on long approaches who demand stopping powers....again higher HDCP players is a bit outside of what ive been working with and who im writing too.
 

This whole thread is how less than elite golfers can lower their scores.  You’re making a straw man argument.  I understand English may not be your first language, but even so, it’s very clear this thread was not meant for elite golfers.  
 

 

[ebrasmus21]

I'll throw this into the thread (my own anecdotal evidence) -- 

 

If one is not used to doing this I suspect it is a "it gets worse before it gets better" type of thing.  I've tried this a couple of times since the thread started and I've flown several greens which is usually a bad miss on most courses.  

 

This style of playing is new to me so maybe I'm over doing it.  Yesterday I had a 130 shot into a green which I hit 9i and flew everything.  That's more on me and less on the idea being presented because I suspect I just have to back off too much on a 9i from that distance.  

 

In other words, as with everything, it depends on the shot and the yardage and where the trouble is and how much you have to take off a certain club ect... it'll take practice doing this.  Even though I flew some greens I also hit some NSFW flighted short irons that gave me that tingly feeling in all the right places.  

[cardoustie]

31 minutes ago, mgoblue83 said:

 

You aren't being a contrarian you just have a 9iron that's stamped PW and a PW that's stamped GW.

 

Same story as everyone else hitting 48 degree PW.

I don’t think a large percentage of golfers are using 47 and 48* wedges ....

[DavePelz4]

On 11/28/2020 at 8:20 PM, ebrasmus21 said:

I always like when the word “obtuse” comes into play. 

 

Andy DuFrain got 60 days in the hole when he used that word.

 

[TheDeanAbides]

8 minutes ago, ebrasmus21 said:

I'll throw this into the thread (my own anecdotal evidence) -- 

 

If one is not used to doing this I suspect it is a "it gets worse before it gets better" type of thing.  I've tried this a couple of times since the thread started and I've flown several greens which is usually a bad miss on most courses.  

 

This style of playing is new to me so maybe I'm over doing it.  Yesterday I had a 130 shot into a green which I hit 9i and flew everything.  That's more on me and less on the idea being presented because I suspect I just have to back off too much on a 9i from that distance.  

 

In other words, as with everything, it depends on the shot and the yardage and where the trouble is and how much you have to take off a certain club ect... it'll take practice doing this.  Even though I flew some greens I also hit some NSFW flighted short irons that gave me that tingly feeling in all the right places.  

How much practice did you do before trying this on the course?

[CasualLie]

What am I missing here?  Does it matter what the ratio is distance between Dr and PW or 9i?  Seems like that is a rear view mirror look at data.  Interesting for some, but really the more important analysis is can you consistently hit the center of the face of your clubs and achieve reliable carry/spin?

 

 

[ebrasmus21]

7 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

How much practice did you do before trying this on the course?

Zero.  Just went for it 

[EDT501]

Anyone else still waiting for the promised irritation?

[TheDeanAbides]

12 minutes ago, ebrasmus21 said:

Zero.  Just went for it 

That's brave! 

[ferrispgm]

It takes some practice to get competent at it...and even more if you want to get good...but IMO it takes a lot less practice to reach either level than it does to change any mechanical error in your swing.  I can only speak to myself but for me it's similar to Monte's short game stuff....I honestly can't remember the last time I practice short game..probably 4-5 months ago and just a handful of times before that... and it's been solid for me all year.   Once you get this it will stay with you for the most part...just need a little touch up here and there to keep the feel.

[Barfolomew]

300+

 

115-135

 

Didn't read whole thread... Is that good or bad lol?  I dont hit irons as far as driver relatively,  hitting off a tee is so much more gentle on wrists and body then hitting ground so think I dont go after iron shots.

Edited December 2, 2020 by Barfolomew

[Krt22]

1 hour ago, TheDeanAbides said:

That's brave! 

Solo rounds are where I try new stuff, you can't post the score anyway so there is nothing to lose. 

[ebrasmus21]

1 minute ago, Krt22 said:

Solo rounds are where I try new stuff, you can't post the score anyway so there is nothing to lose. 

its hard to practice that kind of stuff - imo - on the range because I'm using range balls and I'm not sure what the carry distances are.  When I'm playing, obviously, I'm using my golf ball and I know the yardages I'm working with.  I practice flighted and knock-down shots on the range to get a feel for them but when it comes to actually seeing real shots I have to do that on the course.  

 

I don't have a trackman

I don't have Pro Vs on my range 

[TheDeanAbides]

13 minutes ago, ebrasmus21 said:

its hard to practice that kind of stuff - imo - on the range because I'm using range balls and I'm not sure what the carry distances are.  When I'm playing, obviously, I'm using my golf ball and I know the yardages I'm working with.  I practice flighted and knock-down shots on the range to get a feel for them but when it comes to actually seeing real shots I have to do that on the course.  

 

I don't have a trackman

I don't have Pro Vs on my range 

I'm lucky to have a big enough field close by to practice up to about 120 yards. I like to take a couple of balls and try to hit each one the same distance with different trajectories and then pace them off. I've built up a good range of shots over lockdown doing this.  

[Krt22]

27 minutes ago, ebrasmus21 said:

its hard to practice that kind of stuff - imo - on the range because I'm using range balls and I'm not sure what the carry distances are.  When I'm playing, obviously, I'm using my golf ball and I know the yardages I'm working with.  I practice flighted and knock-down shots on the range to get a feel for them but when it comes to actually seeing real shots I have to do that on the course.  

 

I don't have a trackman

I don't have Pro Vs on my range 

Fully agree with you there, thanks to covid my range practice time has decreased and my solo practice rounds have increased. You are right, distance is a crap shoot at the range (esp since ours is down hill) and only on course practice can give you an idea how they are going to roll out depending on the greens you typically play. 

[freowho]

2 hours ago, CasualLie said:

What am I missing here?  Does it matter what the ratio is distance between Dr and PW or 9i?  Seems like that is a rear view mirror look at data.  Interesting for some, but really the more important analysis is can you consistently hit the center of the face of your clubs and achieve reliable carry/spin?

 

 

The focus in the thread seems to mostly be that people try and hit their short irons too hard. But a poor ratio could also be a sign that your technique is poor even without hitting too hard. Some people hit their PW a long way because they are delofting the club and that delofting could be the same reason you lose a lot of distance from your longer clubs. Many golfers don't use a driver or fairway wood with enough loft.

[ferrispgm]

1 hour ago, ebrasmus21 said:

its hard to practice that kind of stuff - imo - on the range because I'm using range balls and I'm not sure what the carry distances are.  When I'm playing, obviously, I'm using my golf ball and I know the yardages I'm working with.  I practice flighted and knock-down shots on the range to get a feel for them but when it comes to actually seeing real shots I have to do that on the course.  

 

I don't have a trackman

I don't have Pro Vs on my range 

Been in that boat....there is a work around....if you hit 9 iron 150 normally on the course see what it does on the range...if it's 135 on the range then maybe you should try to hit it 125 on the range or whatever the dialed back yardage is....and that will give you 140 on the course.

[Arn]

12 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

tour players who know how to link their arms up, pivot correctly and lean the shaft a lot to bring the ball down

Do u think broadcasters juice the Tour numbers? It’s kinda baffling when they Pull PW from 160+. Is it talent? Adrenaline? BS? Sometimes the clubs they say seem off to me. Yes I took your quote out of context.