This is a topic that will irritate you, but make your handicap go down.

[cardoustie]

Some of the yardages for wedges quoted is very very low IMO, based on my game and what I see from my peers, many that are very VERY low caps

 

Now that said I have always delofted my short irons a lot and hit them far relative to other players of the same speed.  I can remember playing the Canadian Am way when and my x-14 pro-series stock shot with a 9i was 160 carry 

 

I have to basically whiff a PW to hit it 120.  I can comfortably hit a 50* GW 120 with a very smooth action and even 130 if the shot calls for that (ie left pin over a trap etc)

Stock swings, 44* PW 140, 50* GW 125, 54* SW at 110, 59* LW at 95

 

Sorry to be the contrarian

 

I do hit my wedges a lot softer and with more release than I used to .... and as referenced in the punch thread I knock down the majority of them to hit hop and stop shots 

[KC13]

Driver - 270

Pitch - 124

[KC13]

On 11/28/2020 at 5:51 PM, MonteScheinblum said:

The thread on punch shots made me think of  discussing this.  So I just wanted to get some examples to show how golfers hit their wedges way too hard and too far and it makes it more difficult to manage distance because trajectory and spin are not consistent.  Almost without exception, golfers over the handicap of 0 improve their proximity when they hit more club,  with a shorter backswing, with less speed and keep trajectory and spin down on most shots.  
 

There’s no world long wedge contest, they are made for accuracy not distance.  You ever notice how higher level players have much shorter swings on wedges than driver?  Most of you know that even though I’m an old fat man, I can carry a driver 3 bills without much trouble, yet my PW is 130-135.  140 is NEVER a PW unless there is an extenuating circumstance.  

 

Whenever I have this discussion with people, here are the comments I get and what I respond.

 

1.  “I can easily hit it that far, that’s my stock PW.”  I don’t doubt you can, but why would you want to?

 

2.  “I’m a very good wedge player.”  I don’t doubt it, but you’re not on the PGA and even they are trying to be better.

 

3.  “I don’t do well hitting partial wedges.”  It’s not always a partial wedge, it managing the length of your swing better because it’s too long.

 

4.  “Tour players hit their wedges far, and high.”  Yes, but they are skilled enough and practice to manage trajectory, distance and spin...and have you every watched carefully at how many lower trajectory shots they hit inside 150 on the range and course?

 

5.  “The greens at my course are firm and I need to do that to hit it close to tucked pins.”  See Scott Fawcett’s thoughts on going for the pin.

 

Learn to hit all your short irons 2 clubs shorter than what you think you hit now with a shorter backswing.  This is especially helpful for those with excess arm swing in their backswing, but even if you go back to your full yardage, you’ll have another shot in your bag, but most will find a much better level of consistency not trying to hit short irons full (max distance).

 

I think a good player would pick a club based off shot shape, yardage and conditions.  Key is, know your true distances vs what you think you hit them on a day with the wind at your back.  So many amateurs are trying to be like a PGA player on the course but would challenge them to club up one or two, control your tempo and you'd be amazed to see how many pins you'll find.  I partially blame the narrative of big OEM's pushing the whole distance/low spin thing.  SPIN in your friend people!  

 

That is all.  

 

- KC 

 

 

 

[Ty_Webb]

1 hour ago, cardoustie said:

Some of the yardages for wedges quoted is very very low IMO, based on my game and what I see from my peers, many that are very VERY low caps

 

Now that said I have always delofted my short irons a lot and hit them far relative to other players of the same speed.  I can remember playing the Canadian Am way when and my x-14 pro-series stock shot with a 9i was 160 carry 

 

I have to basically whiff a PW to hit it 120.  I can comfortably hit a 50* GW 120 with a very smooth action and even 130 if the shot calls for that (ie left pin over a trap etc)

Stock swings, 44* PW 140, 50* GW 125, 54* SW at 110, 59* LW at 95

 

Sorry to be the contrarian

 

I do hit my wedges a lot softer and with more release than I used to .... and as referenced in the punch thread I knock down the majority of them to hit hop and stop shots 

 

Well, my PW is 48*, so that's probably a good 10-12 yards right there. I'm about 260-270 driver and 123 PW.

[TourSpoon]

I practiced hitting the gap wedge 80 yards today (115 stock) with a lower flight and hit them all on line. The pull was gone so the tip about not letting your arms get away from you in the backswing was spot on. Keep them coming @MonteScheinblum! 

[Hawkeye77]

2 hours ago, Puttersaurus Rex said:

Of course, I agree.  "May" is appropriate, and I was hoping the loose correlation was the caveat.  I am sure we do not want to get started on PW lofts, as they can easily range from 42-48 degrees.  Not the point @Howard_Jones was making, and I was relaying.  Thanks!

Haha, I almost mentioned loft and agree!

[GLF4EVR]

First, altitude is 3,343 feet.  Driver 260 & 47* PW at a full swing is 140.  Only take a full PW swing when it is the best option.  If open shot into a green is 140, use the 9 iron and take the swing back to the 11 o'clock position.

 

Monte, if you see this....really would like your input on my technique.  The obvious...hands of the clock approach to distance.  Now what I wonder about is my process.  When I take the swing for where ever I am wanting the "position" to be at, I still have my body react like a full swing.  Example: RH golfer so at set-up my weight is positioned on the inside of the left foot.  Start the backswing & shift the weight to inside of right foot.  Get hands to desired position & swing.  Biggest mistake with this can be the feeling that you have to accelerate the downswing to make up for the shorter backswing.  At the least, this will result in a pull.  Short story on the process.

 

Really wanting your input on this because an old high school friend retired this year & moved to my area.  After playing so many rounds this year together, he wants me working with him on trying to control his yardage on approach shots.  He caught the concept really quick, now it is just working at the hand position during the winter.  Granted, told him in the beginning that just because it works for me does not mean it will work for him.  But we both thought that if nothing else, it might help him discover what does work for him.  I am always leery of teaching people what I do.  But when it is a 40+ year old friend...big exception.  So am I totally off in my approach.....or at least in the ballpark...or even lucky to even be in the infield!

 

Just to add....I will do this with any club (except putter).  Depends on the yardage needed & where the ball has to go.   

 

 

 

[MonteScheinblum]

1 hour ago, Ty_Webb said:

 

Well, my PW is 48*, so that's probably a good 10-12 yards right there. I'm about 260-270 driver and 123 PW.

That’s why you’re a great player.

[CasualLie]

4 hours ago, TheDeanAbides said:

We clearly need a new "How far do you skull your PW?" thread. 

 

Not my go to shot, but I have skulled a PW about 230 yards.  If there wasn't a hotel lobby in the way I might have got 50 more yards out of it!

[llewol007]

I seldom feel like I don’t take full swings anymore. Hard to replicate. I always suggest to other players to take in 9 holes as a practice round when the course has died down and what I found helpful is establishing some variations of wedge shots from 120 yards in. Meaning 120, 110, 100 ,all the way till your shortest wedge. Typically I play two shots with each club I.e one with hands at my ear and one with my hands at shoulder level. Others might push the position of the ball more forward or take it more towards the back of your stance. Different ways to approach it. I take Pw and jot down my distances, then I do the same with my Gap and my 58. You gotta have a shot that is just as easy to replicate during a regular shot versus when there is something on the line. Not sure how others approach it. I found that when you have your shorter approach irons figured out, you find yourself feeling more in control over all. 

[Ty_Webb]

1 hour ago, MonteScheinblum said:

That’s why you’re a great player.

Haha - I wish - it's because I stall and flip and add loft. Doesn't really hurt too much with driver, but wedges go nowhere. 123 is my flat out number. I am unable to hit a 60* past 70 yards (unless I blade it). 

[Gsea]

play with just your even irons or odds and a sw.  you will learn how to flight shots.

[MonteScheinblum]

36 minutes ago, Gsea said:

play with just your even irons or odds and a sw.  you will learn how to flight shots.

Gold

[Pepperturbo]

Driver 240-245 carry

PW 118yds.

 

To @MonteScheinblum point; spot on.

 

Lots of people hit their mid-short clubs too hard and far and have minimal ability to adjust swing length to create shorter shots.   You're correct, it's prevalent with better golfers too. 

 

The games driver, strong lofted short/mid irons and 4 - 5 wedges are quietly having a derogatory affect on golfers when it comes to distance and trajectory control techniques.  The down side to 4-5 wedges is having one swing per wedge = 4-5 swings.  Yet, we can trust golf guarantees us in-between yardages.  Also, IMO - with the influence of technology today, too many people are focuses on hitting the ball as far as possible, as opposed to targeted distances.

 

When I took up the game, my role model uncle said; hit every club in your bag 10yds longer and 10yds shorter then it's stock yardage.  In other words, I have 13x3 different lengths in my bag.  My 47* PW is about 90 - 110 - 118yd club.

 

I had a 3rd shot yesterday on a Par 5 of 89yds, into a late afternoon breeze.  Greens were running and the Pin was in the front, 4 paces on.  Using SW the ball would have had too much spin and probably spun off the green.  I pulled PW, hit a nice 3/4 knock down shot that hit bounced once and stuck 4' and I made the birdie putt.   Boy do I love 🤩 this game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 30, 2020 by Pepperturbo

[hagimihale]

Driver 275, PW 125

 

@MonteScheinblum  I have some buddies up in Jersey who need to read this thread.  They take pride in hammering their (jacked lofted) PW almost 150.  Very few of them can break 90.  And they don't see the correlation between one and the other.  

 

Years ago I read an interview in one of the golf magazines with a top 20 pro at that time (I forget who).  The quote that stood out was "its not how far you CAN hit that club.  Its hitting that club the same distance every time".  

 

 

Edited November 30, 2020 by hagimihale

[Sean2]

6 hours ago, cardoustie said:

Some of the yardages for wedges quoted is very very low IMO, based on my game and what I see from my peers, many that are very VERY low caps

 

Now that said I have always delofted my short irons a lot and hit them far relative to other players of the same speed.  I can remember playing the Canadian Am way when and my x-14 pro-series stock shot with a 9i was 160 carry 

 

I have to basically whiff a PW to hit it 120.  I can comfortably hit a 50* GW 120 with a very smooth action and even 130 if the shot calls for that (ie left pin over a trap etc)

Stock swings, 44* PW 140, 50* GW 125, 54* SW at 110, 59* LW at 95

 

Sorry to be the contrarian

 

I do hit my wedges a lot softer and with more release than I used to .... and as referenced in the punch thread I knock down the majority of them to hit hop and stop shots 

Golf is all about contrarians. 🙂

[jmkenn0]

275/145, but I randomly had a similar epiphany the other day.  Started hitting all my wedges with more of a 3/4 knockdown swing holding off the finish (I have a lot going on in my swing clearly) - lost about 10 yards, but just laser straight every time and very consistent distance/spin/ball flight.

[CBJ]

D = 250

PW = 125

[MonteScheinblum]

3 hours ago, hagimihale said:

Driver 275, PW 125

 

@MonteScheinblum  I have some buddies up in Jersey who need to read this thread.  They take pride in hammering their (jacked lofted) PW almost 150.  Very few of them can break 90.  And they don't see the correlation between one and the other.  

 

Years ago I read an interview in one of the golf magazines with a top 20 pro at that time (I forget who).  The quote that stood out was "its not how far you CAN hit that club.  Its hitting that club the same distance every time".  

 

 

I agree.  

[MonteScheinblum]

1 hour ago, jmkenn0 said:

275/145, but I randomly had a similar epiphany the other day.  Started hitting all my wedges with more of a 3/4 knockdown swing holding off the finish (I have a lot going on in my swing clearly) - lost about 10 yards, but just laser straight every time and very consistent distance/spin/ball flight.

Like I said in the original post, it’s not can you hit it that far, or that you are successful doing it.....it’s about being more successful with less effort.  So far, getting people to make a shorter swing on wedges and hitting them shorter, has had a 100% success rate across all skill levels.  Even those saying that they weren’t swinging hard and they’re a very good wedge player.

[Moonlightgrm]

Playing at sea level:

10.5* Driver: 240 yards

47* Pitching Wedge: 110 yards

 

I was just fit for T200 irons with AMT S300 Black shafts.  The pitching wedge is quite strong at 43*, so I will assume I will comfortably hit it 120 yards.

 

[Obee]

8 hours ago, Ty_Webb said:

 

Well, my PW is 48*, so that's probably a good 10-12 yards right there. I'm about 260-270 driver and 123 PW.

More like 5 to 7?

[mholmstrom]

Great topic! Learning the control distance wedge over the past few years has saved me at least 1-2 strokes a round. I no longer try to hit a 135 yd PW (even though I can). Instead I take a controlled but aggressive 1/2 or 3/4 swing with my 9i with much better results. Driver carry is 260+ and most guys I play with are 230 range. I love it when they pull W into a green side bunker from 125 and I stick one all over the pin and they ask what I hit and I proudly show them my 9i. I get some confused looks,...like it just does not compute for them why I use less club even though i'm a club longer than them through the bag... Haha. 

Edited December 1, 2020 by mholmstrom

[Wormkiller]

On 11/29/2020 at 8:20 AM, MonteScheinblum said:

First things first.

 

1.  How far do you hit a decent driver under normal conditions?

2.  Under normal conditions, what distance do you pull a PW from?

 

1. 220m on average. And I'm a longer hitter than most I play with.

2. Full swing - 100m. But I use my PW all the time. I love chipping and pitching with it.

[MonteScheinblum]

45 minutes ago, mholmstrom said:

Great topic! Learning the control distance wedge over the past few years has saved me at least 1-2 strokes a round. I no longer try to hit a 135 yd PW (even though I can). Instead I take a controlled but aggressive 1/2 or 3/4 swing with my 9i with much better results. Driver carry is 260+ and most guys I play with are 230 range. I love it when they pull W into a green side bunker from 125 and I stick one all over the pin and they ask what I hit and I proudly show them my 9i. I get some confused looks,...like it just does not compute for them why I use less club even though i'm a club longer than them through the bag... Haha. 

Winner!!!!!!!

[noodle3872]

1 hour ago, mholmstrom said:

Great topic! Learning the control distance wedge over the past few years has saved me at least 1-2 strokes a round. I no longer try to hit a 135 yd PW (even though I can). Instead I take a controlled but aggressive 1/2 or 3/4 swing with my 9i with much better results. Driver carry is 260+ and most guys I play with are 230 range. I love it when they pull W into a green side bunker from 125 and I stick one all over the pin and they ask what I hit and I proudly show them my 9i. I get some confused looks,...like it just does not compute for them why I use less club even though i'm a club longer than them through the bag... Haha. 

 

1 hour ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Winner!!!!!!!

It takes real discipline to learn to take more club and make a committed swing. The couple holes I mustered the discipline to take more club and make the compact well sequenced swing have left me very pleased with the proximity to the hole. But it’s hard to shake the habit of hitting the 125 club from 125.

[MonteScheinblum]

Yes

[mukster]

Topped driver - 175 yards

 Bladed PW - 175 yards

[freowho]

5 minutes ago, mukster said:

Topped driver - 175 yards

 Bladed PW - 175 yards

Just as well you hit the blade second because your drive would have lost distance with the smiley.

[TheDeanAbides]

10 hours ago, Gsea said:

play with just your even irons or odds and a sw.  you will learn how to flight shots.

We have a short par 3 course that I often approach with one club that'll allow me to reach the longest hole. Everything else is a partial shot.