Being told how to hit a shot in team play, does it help or hurt?

[bekgolf]

I'm guilty of this.  I want to help but once the words are said it doesn't ever seem to help.  All it does is make the person receiving the advice very self conscious.

 

I recently experienced a better golfer directing me during a team match and I have to say it sucked.  This person knows nothing about my game or how it's working at the present moment or what I intend to do with a shot but they continuously tell me what I should do based on their skill set.  If I tell them to shut up it ruins the round, if they keep directing me the round is ruined.  How would wrx handle the person who keeps directing a golfer who doesn't need the advice? 

 

I'm trying to golf within my skill set and trying for the best result.  I don't need coaching from someone who has enough problems of their own (I'm in the fairway with a 130 yard approach shot and being told where to hit my shot).  I make par and the advice giver bogies.

 

Good advice is appreciated

[BIG STU]

With me it can be subjective especially playing a strange course. I welcome advice in that case like it is 150 to the pin but you need to hit it left of the pin about 130 because a ridge runs there etc and it will funnel down. 

What I absolutely can not tolerate is analysis of a missed shot especially from someone who does not know jack about the game in general. We had to cut off a player from our Scramble team a while back. He would analyize every shot someone hit and did not know in both cases what he was talking about. LOL did not know the difference between a pulled or pushed putt versus putting one through the break. I am normally even tempered and let stuff roll of my back like water off a Duck's back. One day he had the rest of us pissed with his after shot analysis. I told him if he wanted to do analysis maybe he should put in an app on the GC but first learn what the hell he was talking about to begin with. He did some other annoying stuff like inviting others to the team without telling me. One week he did that and we had like 6 players. My regular guys pulled out and sided with me. We decided then and there to replace him which we did. He still plays but as a single with a pick up team. 

But yeah I never offer advice unless asked. I will give yardage and what it plays as to someone not familiar with the course but that is it. And I do not consider myself to be an instructor either

You might not want my advice because anyone who knows me on here or in real life knows I am straight off the trailer honest. I will put up with the sorta thing you mentioned a little bit then I will fly in on it wide open and hurt egos and feelings. When pushed tact is not in my makeup. Hopefully some other members will reply that have more tact than I do

[Scooby555]

The much better golfers i've played with usually help when asked about the putting line but not any other shot.  The ones of equal or lesser skills are the ones that want to "help" on every shot.

 

[MattyO1984]

On a new course or one that I am not hugely familiar some information about what is ahead is useful but don't be telling me what shot to hit. I'll take the information and make from it what I wish. 

[klebs01]

What’s the format of this comp. that could make a difference if there is team strategy. I’ll encourage some players to play aggressive because I can bump a ball in play if necessary, or to just put one in play so the rest of the team can get aggressive if it make sense. Team strategy should be discussed. Other than that I only give advice when asked and usually it’s on putts. I tell the rest of the team

on the first tee that I’ll help whenever asked about won’t give advice without being asked. 
 

also, why can’t you just tell him you don’t want his advice all the time? Seems like a simple adult conversation would solve the issue. 

[LeoLeo99]

I was playing a scramble on a higher end private course with two friends and the fourth guy was an older guy that I had heard of and knew he was a stick.  They told me his short game was world-class.  Another friend in the scramble had what I thought was a world-class short game but I learned just how good people can get that day.  We were at a par 5 and our third shot left us about 20 yards to the hole tucked tightly behind a bunker.  The world-class guy, who was a very nice guy, advises me.  What you want to do here is hit a low skipper landing 5 feet short of the green about 20 feet right of the flag and roll it 20 feet past the hole, it will catch the ridge which will act as a backstop and the ball will roll back down to the hole.  Uh, yeah, uh, not sure how to tell you this but uh, I'll try my best.  My best wasn't very good.  The stick hits the exact shot that you recommended.  Some people play with a lot of control and finesse.  Some very good golfers play a very simple game.  

 

A single that we picked up for a scramble called every mishit a flier.  Duffs, shanks, tops...   Everyone.  "Sorry guy, caught a flier."  

[llewol007]

what advice can someone offer is really puzzling to me. When I offer advice during a team competition I give my playing partner a target in the distance and say driving range swing. 😂😂😂😂

[jvincent]

If you don't know the person's game any advice other than distances and lurking hazards/slopes isn't very helpful.

 

Giving advice on putts can be especially problematic if you have different holing speeds. I prefer to have the ball die into the hole so I tend to play more break that somebody who hits it in firmly.

[jordan2240]

As others have indicated, it depends on the type of advice.  If someone know you are unfamiliar with a course and is simply trying to advise you on where to try to land the ball, I don't find that annoying.  If someone is trying to give me swing or shot selection advice that wasn't asked for (and I'm not a novice trying to learn the game), I find that extremely annoying.  It is kind of difficult to address though without feeling like you've created tension.  Your first reaction is to tell the person to shut the hell up, but even a diplomatic reaction like "hey man, I appreciate the intent but I'd rather just play my own game" can cause a change in the overall feel of the round.  

[lilcaeser]

Most advice is given because they depend on you to pull off that shot to help the team. When I play w my higher Cap partners they always seem to give me advice and it ruins my shot. If I have a shot shape/thought in mind I don’t need another thought to creep into my head esp by someone that doesn’t know my intention. Stay away til I ask for advice and I tell my higher cap /partners that all day on the golf course. Esp on the greens ; I won’t say a word unless you ask for help and anytime I ask for advice it’s for confirmation of a shot/putt. My good buddy would just say “ Shut the F*** up* or I’ll never ask for your advice again and it lightens the mood 😇

[klebs01]

14 minutes ago, jvincent said:

If you don't know the person's game any advice other than distances and lurking hazards/slopes isn't very helpful.

 

Giving advice on putts can be especially problematic if you have different holing speeds. I prefer to have the ball die into the hole so I tend to play more break that somebody who hits it in firmly.

most of the time when I help someone with a putt I just confirm their read to give them confidence. You point about speed is spot on. Some people consistently push or pull outs 10* so their lines subconsciously build that in.    Keep it simple aim up here it’s going to break down to the hole and yep that looks good to me. 

[Bad9]

Giving unsolicited advice/commentary on how to hit a shot is a weiner move.

[dfeldss]

Giving unsolicited advice on how to hit a shot is pretty egregious.

 

If it's just saying what shot to try or where to go in a team comp, that doesn't seem unreasonable.

[jdl]

I'd just thank them and then go ahead and hit the shot I wanted. After a few times of being ignored, maybe they'd get a clue.

[GHIN n Juice]

If I’m playing a scramble I won’t offer specific shot advise but I’ll let someone know what is up ahead if it’s a course I’ve played and they are unfamiliar.  I’ll also hold off on reading putts unless I’m asked.

 

Now, if it is a team event that involves a portion of alternate shot then I’ll be a little more involved.  I’ll let my partner know what distance to lay up to, or what angle I’d prefer for an approach shot.  And I’d expect the same back. 

[MattM97]

Really depends on the context of the advice, like if someone told me to hit a low draw off the tee to put myself in the best position well I can't hit a low draw by choice. But if they said avoid left side off the tee or don't go long on the green to avoid danger sure I'll take that advice all day. Local knowledge of a course is extremely helpful and I'll take it anytime I can, but if they guy is giving me advice I don't want or need I just let it go in one ear and out the other. 

[Hammer_Hands]

I appreciate the irony of asking for advice about giving and receiving advice.

[MelloYello]

Team events are notorious for bringing out the nervous energy in people. I can't tell you how many times someone has vocalized the classic 'we're not doing well enough, we need birdie on the next hole!' thing while playing with me. Like, yeah, thanks, bud. I would've birdied that last hole, but I totally forgot. 

 

In the short term...

 

You can ask these types to refrain from sharing their opinions however sharing is generally the point of these team competitions so you'll seem like a jerk being anti-social during a social event. Often, it's better to take a leadership position and dictate to others what you want them to do or to simply state what you're electing to do as a matter of fact to preempt any suggestion from them. In other words, if you don't like their leadership, just be a leader yourself. 

 

In the long term...

 

You can keep a record of who bothers you, gets on your nerves or spreads a bunch of nervous energy and avoid playing with them. There are tons of ways someone can grate on you from a lack of preparation / performance to just being a bore. It's totally fair to "just want more" as they say.

[TwistedSister]

12 hours ago, bekgolf said:

I'm guilty of this.  I want to help but once the words are said it doesn't ever seem to help.  All it does is make the person receiving the advice very self conscious.

 

I recently experienced a better golfer directing me during a team match and I have to say it sucked.  This person knows nothing about my game or how it's working at the present moment or what I intend to do with a shot but they continuously tell me what I should do based on their skill set.  If I tell them to shut up it ruins the round, if they keep directing me the round is ruined.  How would wrx handle the person who keeps directing a golfer who doesn't need the advice? 

 

I'm trying to golf within my skill set and trying for the best result.  I don't need coaching from someone who has enough problems of their own (I'm in the fairway with a 130 yard approach shot and being told where to hit my shot).  I make par and the advice giver bogies.

 

Good advice is appreciated

I offered advice once.  The guy turned and told me if he wanted my f advice he'd ask!

[elwhippy]

The problem with doing this a higher hcp player might make them more confused. I let my partners play their own game.

[nikeblades00]

I play in alot of scramble events. We have a core group and we usually do very well. 

 

We're an experienced group and guys are good players and laid back, but 1 thing always grinds my gears is when a certain guy always feels the need to tell me exactly what blade of grass I need to roll the putt over. I'll basically be in my putting routine and he will walk in my line and point exactly where I need to roll the ball over, either a blade of grass or a blemish on the green.  He doesn't understand I don't process my putting in that manner. It really annoys me.

 

Thing is he's truly a great green reader, like elite, and he's a great guy. So I just say thanks and usually step back and re do my routine.

[Pepperturbo]

I played pvt Interclub team match play for many years.  IMO UNLESS ASKED, it's rude and wrong to tell anyone how to make certain shots or what shot to make, that includes teammates. 

 

A long-time back I experienced someone telling me how to execute a shot, the opposite of the OP's example.  A high-handicap teammate that thought he knew how to play good golf, only couldn't do it himself, figured he'd tell me how to.  To make matters worse, lacked experienced in competitive sports, golf tournaments or match play. 

 

I won my match, but halfway though had to bluntly tell him to shut-the-hell up, and mind his own game, which he lost.  I knew his feelings were hurt.  Didn't mean to, but in competitive sports teammates have to be tough; there's no "I am sorry" lines.  We do the best we can and only offer help when asked.

 

 

[Bad9]

6 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

IMO UNLESS ASKED, it's rude and wrong to tell anyone how to make certain shots or what shot to make, that includes teammates. 

 

100% And this is totally different from telling someone course information like "There's a pond 80yds from the green that you can't see from here" or "There's a big runoff on the back right of the green", etc.

[bnperrone]

45 minutes ago, nikeblades00 said:

Thing is he's truly a great green reader, like elite, and he's a great guy. So I just say thanks and usually step back and re do my routine.

Imagine how helpful he could be if he understood how to convey the read to people who don't do it exactly his way. 

 

I've spent a while caddying at a well known challenging resort course, so there's a lot of involvement. Some people want to talk about balls and cups, some people want a spot partway through, some just want to confirm the direction, and some want to do it on their own. It's my job to give them what helps THEM, not what I think is best for me. We could talk about alternative methods on a practice green anytime, but on the course it's about making it fit the player's preference and giving them confidence. Being a teammate wouldn't really be different except I'd be offering to help and only giving input when requested. Which, of course, also happens sometimes as a caddie, although that's more typical of a country club setting where everybody plays it 3x a week vs a visually deceptive resort course that most are seeing for the first time.

[mshills]

The only good unsolicited advice goes something like this:

 

"Have you played here before?"
"I sure haven't, first time."
"Cool.  Heads up, from here it's only 230 to a pond on the other side of that hill, can't see it from here."

"Hey thanks, I was about to pump driver right into that pond!"

[jholz]

I'm never (well, I'm not perfect but I try...) going to give unsolicited advice on the golf course. 

 

Having said that, there's two kinds of golf advice...

 

1. Helping an unfamiliar player around the course

2. Giving swing advice

 

With number 1, I'm willing to cut people a lot of slack. I appreciate course knowledge. 

 

With number 2, it's a clear line. Don't give swing advice unless asked. Period. I don't care how good you are. 

 

If I'm ever prompted to give swing advice on the course, it always comes with a lengthy caveat statement:

 

"I don't know your game or what might help you, but, when I try to hit that shot, I do this... because I've based this approach on a lot of research, reputable sources, and direct experience... It works for me. You may need to experiment to find what works for you..."

 

That's reasoned golf advice (in my honest opinion.)

Edited October 14, 2022 by jholz

[Bigarch]

It's kinda like chores around the house.  My spouse is allowed to tell me what needs to be done.... but she's not allowed to tell me how to do it.  I'll be happy to accept local knowledge about the course but don't tell me how to do it.  I will literally...

 

Edited October 14, 2022 by Bigarch

[nsxguy]

I've played mostly team games since '87; 4 man team, 2 better balls and more recently 4 man scrambles. For better or worse I am usually the "captain"/low handicapper.

 

As for swing advice, not quite like jholz, but almost never. Only time I would offer any sort of tip is if the guy is a higher handicapper, is totally frustrated with something, AND asks.

 

Otherwise, any help I may be able to offer him can wait til after the round.

 

 

Now, as to what to do, that depends on what's going on.

 

For our scrambles it's totally common on every putt for all 4 to help read the putt. Usually the weakest player putts first and once the break and speed is seen,,,,,,,,

 

From that point the other 3 have already seen the putt, so not much to be said to players 2-4, except "How did that not break ?!?!?! 🙃

 

I NEVER suggest "Get it to the hole", especially not to a weaker player. That's a sure recipe for disaster. Seems every time someone says that the guy hits an 8 foot putt 6 feet past the hole (And THEN says "Well, I didn't want to leave it short )

 

Last thought I might give 'em is "(Make a) Good stroke".

 

For our 2 better ball games it's a little different. Only advice given there is generally, to remind (usually) weaker players what the team needs.

 

e.g. If 2 guys are in trouble, the last guy or 2 might be reminded to hit the center of the green "Par is a good score". Or reminding a player with a slick downhill birdie putt, after 2 bogies and a par are in the hole, "Pretty slick there, we only have 1 par"

 

Or (somewhat the opposite) 2 or 3 guys lay up to a good spot on a par 5 and the other 1 or 2 are thinking about going for it in 2, "Give it a go. We're in good shape".

 

But most of these guys have been playing a long time and generally only the higher handicappers/less experienced guys need to hear something.

[adamwittman]

Context. We played in a big scramble in big population area. My partner wanted to know what to hit into a green. It was 75 yards i told him to hit his gap wedge to here, and stood on a spot and he holed the damn thing no joke. I do that maybe 3/4x in formats like that, all depends on who you’re friends with and if they can handle it. Play alot with a guy who played mini tour stuff years ago, you could never suggest anything to him. So I don’t and we don’t play team stuff together. 

[nikeblades00]

1 hour ago, bnperrone said:

Imagine how helpful he could be if he understood how to convey the read to people who don't do it exactly his way. 

 

I've spent a while caddying at a well known challenging resort course, so there's a lot of involvement. Some people want to talk about balls and cups, some people want a spot partway through, some just want to confirm the direction, and some want to do it on their own. It's my job to give them what helps THEM, not what I think is best for me. We could talk about alternative methods on a practice green anytime, but on the course it's about making it fit the player's preference and giving them confidence. Being a teammate wouldn't really be different except I'd be offering to help and only giving input when requested. Which, of course, also happens sometimes as a caddie, although that's more typical of a country club setting where everybody plays it 3x a week vs a visually deceptive resort course that most are seeing for the first time.

I agree. Each player is so unique in their execution.  

I do like hearing everyone's take and how it's breaking about a ball or 2, or keep it inside the cup. Also in a scramble most information is after watching the first guy putt. That's also why we usually have our 2nd best putter bat lead off. You need a good putt, especially from a speed standpoint to give others a good idea of the read.