Should your club championship be played from the tips?

[RCGA]

Course is 6800y from the tips around 6300y from the "one up" tees. 

 

Most members play it at 6300y in their day-to-day play. The course is very windy, lots of hazards, forced carries off the tee and long par 5s (575y par 5 into a 30mph wind isn't fun). 

 

There is a growing divide amongst members that the club championship (A division, at least) should be played from the tips. The notion that it's the club championship and you should be utilizing the course to its maximum. Skins and prize money are already divided by division. 

 

There is a counter argument is that the person who wins will likely win it regardless of the tees used. And because of the added distance, pace of play may be an issue (usually an argument amongst shorter hitters, however). 

 

Where do you stand? What does your club do? 

[golfwb]

Our course is 7000(black) from the back and 6500(blue) from one up.

This year we had 30 or so guys start on Friday all from the back.

The second day they cut the field in half, by score, and play 15 on black and 15 on blues.

So you have a three day deal for championship and presidents.

If you don't want to play the blacks the first day you sign up for 2 days from the blues for 1st flight winner.

[rogolf]

Play somewhere in between the tips and one up.  The majority should have a chance to win and I doubt the majority play from tips regularly.

Imo, playing from the tips will reduce participation and enjoyment.

Our club has another event called the "Ironperson" where play is from the tips to difficult hole locations.  It's more of a slog than the club championships.

[Abh159]

Might not be totally relevant, but our Club Championship is a match play event. We do 18 holes of qualifying (from the member tees) and then divide into flights of 8 players (Championship flight has 16) for the event.

 

Championship flight plays from the tips and the winner is deemed the Club Champion. Every other flight plays from the member tees and there are credit payouts for 1st and 2nd in each flight.

[jvincent]

Our Open Division plays a mix of Black/Blue, probably trending towards Black. I think that's the right call.

 

The other divisions play different tees.

Edited October 19, 2023 by jvincent

[klebs01]

Championship flight should go from the tips, or a tip trending setup (fine to move a tee or two up to encourage risky play). 

Edited October 19, 2023 by klebs01

[Pepperturbo]

Regardless of length or difficulty, The Club Championship should be played from the tips, by anyone willing to play to scratch, and the winner is Club Champion.  The rest of the people play in a flight according to course handicap, low adjusted score is the winner. 

 

Sandbaggers should be guillotined, but it's still up for debate.  Golf is NOT supposed to be equal for all.  If you're a short hitter, deal with it.  There is NO participation trophy.

Edited October 19, 2023 by Pepperturbo

[david.c.w]

10 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

Regardless of length or difficulty, The Club Championship should be played from the tips, by anyone willing to play to scratch, and the winner is Club Champion.  The rest of the people play in a flight according to course handicap, low adjusted score is the winner. 

 

Sandbaggers should be guillotined, but it's still up for debate.  Golf is NOT supposed to be equal for all.  If you're a short hitter, deal with it.  There is NO participation trophy.

 

Club Championship should 100% be played from the back tees and has no handicap.  I can see a version of a championship that is match vs. stroke play, but handicaps are NEVER included, and should ALWAYS be from the back tees.  Most sandbaggers won't play, because they know they are sandbaggers and can't compete, those that do have that 84 posted on the scoreboard, followed by the inevitable letters "WD".

 

Pace of play is not an issue.  This is a once-a-year event.  Everyone can deal with a longer round.

 

Anyone who thinks THE club champion can be a 12 index who had a good week should be flogged.  

 

 

 

 

[Brooks_Cupcake]

4 hours ago, RCGA said:

Course is 6800y from the tips around 6300y from the "one up" tees. 

 

Most members play it at 6300y in their day-to-day play. The course is very windy, lots of hazards, forced carries off the tee and long par 5s (575y par 5 into a 30mph wind isn't fun). 

 

There is a growing divide amongst members that the club championship (A division, at least) should be played from the tips. The notion that it's the club championship and you should be utilizing the course to its maximum. Skins and prize money are already divided by division. 

 

There is a counter argument is that the person who wins will likely win it regardless of the tees used. And because of the added distance, pace of play may be an issue (usually an argument amongst shorter hitters, however). 

 

Where do you stand? What does your club do? 

Play from the tees based on handicap and flight.

any handicap 10 under (0-5>champ flight/5-9>first flight)

10-20 next tee (so on…)

20+ third tee 

Edited October 19, 2023 by Brooks_Cupcake

[Brooks_Cupcake]

3 hours ago, rogolf said:

Play somewhere in between the tips and one up.  The majority should have a chance to win and I doubt the majority play from tips regularly.

Imo, playing from the tips will reduce participation and enjoyment.

Our club has another event called the "Ironperson" where play is from the tips to difficult hole locations.  It's more of a slog than the club championships.

Ahem…“Ironman.”

[Pepperturbo]

11 minutes ago, david.c.w said:

 

Club Championship should 100% be played from the back tees and has no handicap.  I can see a version of a championship that is match vs. stroke play, but handicaps are NEVER included, and should ALWAYS be from the back tees.  Most sandbaggers won't play, because they know they are sandbaggers and can't compete, those that do have that 84 posted on the scoreboard, followed by the inevitable letters "WD".

 

Pace of play is not an issue.  This is a once-a-year event.  Everyone can deal with a longer round.

 

Anyone who thinks THE club champion can be a 12 index who had a good week should be flogged.  

 

 

 

 

Me likey.  

Let's put it in the rules alongside sandbaggers have to choose between guillotine or castration tees.  

[david.c.w]

2 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

Me likey.  

Let's put it in the rules alongside sandbaggers have to choose between guillotine or castration tees.  

I like public humiliation.

 

The "real" golfers can judge the vanity handicaps AND the sandbaggers.  

 

Note, will never enter the real club championship.  I play but loudly say I am playing in flight 2 of the gold net division.

[ChipNRun]

4 hours ago, RCGA said:

Most members play it at 6300y in their day-to-day play. The course is very windy, lots of hazards, forced carries off the tee and long par 5s (575y par 5 into a 30mph wind isn't fun). 

 

Most modern-era golf courses have multiple sets of tee boxes. Use tee boxes to match to different groups of ability.

 

I play out of Stonewolf GC  in Fairview Heights, IL. After several seasons of refurbishing - cutting down volunteer trees so you can see the fairway, rebuilding and removing bunkers, etc. - we have emerged with a stable group of tee-box offerings. The combinations work out nicely for the Club Championship.

 

For the Club Championship, we play different tee boxes according to age. We have four age divisions each for Men's Gross and Scratch, and Women's Gross and Scratch.

 

___________________________

It seems that Club Championships have two main flavors to them.

• Ours is a one-day, fun, celebration of the season with plenty of braggin' rights to go around.
• RCGA's seems to be more formal, possibly with the need for a Championship / A-flight splitout from start. RCGA's club seems to have a chippier attitude toward the championship.

And, there's the attitude of sportsmanship vs. combativeness. At club championships and the July city championship down in Oklahoma where I lived, the Championship Flight players could be rather snippy toward us lesser humans in the other flights for cluttering up their tournament.

 

And remember, the Pros have different lengths according to category of players:

• US Open (men's): Los Angeles CC | Par 70 |  7423 Yards
• Champion's Tour: US Senior Open (men's): Sentry World Golf Center | Par 72 | 7320 Yards
• LPGA US Women's Open: Pebble Beach Golf Links | Par 71 | 6546 Yards

 

Edited October 19, 2023 by ChipNRun
Remove double-strike image

[DFS PFD]

Unequivocally, yes it should be played from the tips. 

[Newby]

Back tees off scratch.

[ballzo]

Ours is, scratch division.

[rogolf]

3 hours ago, Brooks_Cupcake said:

Ahem…“Ironman.”

Used to be that and “Ironwoman”, but changed by some to be more politically correct!

Edited October 19, 2023 by rogolf

[Augster]

If you want to be “club champion” it’s back tees, scratch. Lowest score wins. 
 

Don’t complicate it. There are other flights to win that can play other tees. But the club champ plays the WHOLE course, not just parts of it. 

[rogolf]

I do notice that most PGA Tournaments, and including the majors, don't play from the "tips" on every hole on every day.

[SNIPERBBB]

The Championship Flight, or whatever you want to call it, needs to be from the tips or your course should just do away with that tee box.

 

Our course does have the same problem with the same guy has won it the last few years running and probably 6 of the last 9. I came second this year and was 12 shots back( was +7 for the three rounds). But our CC also serves as a qualifier to get on the club team for the upcoming interclub match with a neighboring course, ryder cup style tournament(4 rounds over 2 days).

33 minutes ago, rogolf said:

I do notice that most PGA Tournaments, and including the majors, don't play from the "tips" on every hole on every day.

Yep they do move them around, Its a tradition on one hole of our course to move the tees on a certain hole up to the ladies tee box for at least one of the three rounds. Plus the other tees give moved around too but most holes are played from the tips or the member tees. The next flight play from the normal mens tees.

Edited October 20, 2023 by SNIPERBBB

[larrybud]

9 hours ago, RCGA said:

Course is 6800y from the tips around 6300y from the "one up" tees. 

...

 

Where do you stand? What does your club do? 

My CC used to be played from the tips: 7250 yards.  The vast majority of players complained, and the pro said the CC should be played from the tips... Note the next tees are 6600.

 

Until they held the Michigan PGA here, which the pro played in, and I pointed out the PROFESSIONALS are playing 6800-6900 yards. They changed it the following year. Played a couple of holes from the back but generally it was 6700 or so yards.

[Hawkeye77]

The notion that playing from the "tips" is the only true test and so forth is nothing more than arbitrary and means little.  

 

Get the course in good shape, challenge players with some pins, maybe change up some length a little (longer and shorter) and let the members play a course that resembles what they play 90% of the time, IMO.  

 

Just making the course longer for an event for the sake of making it longer just makes it more likely you are skewing the results.

[davep043]

I don't think there's one universal answer.  I'm pretty sure the Pinehurst Club Championship isn't played from the US Open tees at 7800 yards, or whatever they are, nor should it be.  But at my home club, where the back tees are around 6800 yards, its perfectly appropriate to use those for the Championship flight.  Generally speaking, better players tend to be longer hitters, so if you're trying to identify the best player, significant length should be a big part of the challenge.  

[Shilgy]

23 hours ago, ChipNRun said:

 

Most modern-era golf courses have multiple sets of tee boxes. Use tee boxes to match to different groups of ability.

 

I play out of Stonewolf GC  in Fairview Heights, IL. After several seasons of refurbishing - cutting down volunteer trees so you can see the fairway, rebuilding and removing bunkers, etc. - we have emerged with a stable group of tee-box offerings. The combinations work out nicely for the Club Championship.

 

For the Club Championship, we play different tee boxes according to age. We have four age divisions each for Men's Gross and Scratch, and Women's Gross and Scratch.

 

___________________________

It seems that Club Championships have two main flavors to them.

• Ours is a one-day, fun, celebration of the season with plenty of braggin' rights to go around.
• RCGA's seems to be more formal, possibly with the need for a Championship / A-flight splitout from start. RCGA's club seems to have a chippier attitude toward the championship.

And, there's the attitude of sportsmanship vs. combativeness. At club championships and the July city championship down in Oklahoma where I lived, the Championship Flight players could be rather snippy toward us lesser humans in the other flights for cluttering up their tournament.

 

And remember, the Pros have different lengths according to category of players:

• US Open (men's): Los Angeles CC | Par 70 |  7423 Yards
• Champion's Tour: US Senior Open (men's): Sentry World Golf Center | Par 72 | 7320 Yards
• LPGA US Women's Open: Pebble Beach Golf Links | Par 71 | 6546 Yards

 

Hmm, my first thought is “that’s awful”.  Is playing a tougher flight allowable? I know a lot of guys that would b***h about playing from under 6100 yards. And plenty of 70+ not wanting to play from 5500.

 

Why not by handicap?

[sui generis]

On 10/19/2023 at 11:20 AM, RCGA said:

Where do you stand?

 

Each course is different, to be sure. Imagine a layout with a par 4 that, if the tee were moved up a bit it would become a driveable par 4. Surely for some part of the competion that set up vs "the tips" would be appropriate if the goal of the competion is to identify the best player in the club that weekend.

[nsxguy]

Seems like most answers are for private country clubs.

 

It should be noted there are a fair number of clubs at public golf courses.

 

And they may not play at all from the tips.

 

So, to cover that circumstance I would say the CC should be played from the furthest tee set the club normally plays from.

 

No handicap. Best player during the tourney wins.

 

[bcjim]

Yes,  unless your club is excessively long from the back tee. If a course is 7500 from the back,  you're just selecting the champion from guys that can bomb it. 

 

[ChipNRun]

11 hours ago, Shilgy said:

For the Club Championship, we play different tee boxes according to age. We have four age divisions each for Men's Gross and Scratch, and Women's Gross and Scratch.

___________________________

It seems that Club Championships have two main flavors to them.

• Ours is a one-day, fun, celebration of the season with plenty of braggin' rights to go around.

11 hours ago, Shilgy said:

Hmm, my first thought is “that’s awful”.  Is playing a tougher flight allowable? I know a lot of guys that would b***h about playing from under 6100 yards. And plenty of 70+ not wanting to play from 5500.

 

Why not by handicap?

 

We do have HDCP at play. Each age group, male and female, has both a Gross and Net champion.

 

Hmm, my first thought is "that's awful."

 

Again, we have a one-day affair. It's more fun than hard-nose competitive.

 

And, the majority of the people who show up are age 60 or over.

 

We have a lot of single-digit HDCPs at our club. They more often than not focus on the District Amateur / USGA events, or the US Am Tour or the Golfweek Amateur Tour.

 

Also, we are a semi-private club. In our area, the semis have rather modest club championships. Some of the private-equity clubs (most on the St. Louis side), will have both a medal play championship, and a match-play championship.

 

Clubs that have the match play usually schedule them over two weeks in late summer: You get your draw, and then you and your bracket opponent have three days or so to play your bracket-elim matches. Then, the different bracket semi-finals and championships take place on a designated Sat-Sun weekend.

 

[naval2006]

15 hours ago, davep043 said:

 But at my home club, where the back tees are around 6800 yards, its perfectly appropriate to use those for the Championship flight.  Generally speaking, better players tend to be longer hitters, so if you're trying to identify the best player, significant length should be a big part of the challenge.  

I agree with this at club level. Furthermore, this is the championship that crowns the best player of a club for a year, so it is meant for the best players, not for the most frequent players, or the sandbaggers or the retired guys that spend their life and bucks at the club. Once a year the best must thoroughly be put to the test. At any given course there will be between a handful to a dozen best golfers. For the rest of the members there’s always the good old handicap and age flights. 
 

 

[nitram]

16 hours ago, davep043 said:

I don't think there's one universal answer.  I'm pretty sure the Pinehurst Club Championship isn't played from the US Open tees at 7800 yards, or whatever they are, nor should it be.  But at my home club, where the back tees are around 6800 yards, its perfectly appropriate to use those for the Championship flight.  Generally speaking, better players tend to be longer hitters, so if you're trying to identify the best player, significant length should be a big part of the challenge.  

I couldn't have said it any better Dave. And Seniors can have their own division from a shorter yardage, or better yet, their own event.